why does CDC say that ?

[Guest coolguy]

ok so cdc say oral sex is a low risk. However many medical forums are insisting that cdc is way too conservative about their statements. And, oral sex is infact not a risk. A reputable website MEDHELP states there is no risk in oral sex for hiv. Even the doctos there states the following :

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.

Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

 

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update

J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1

Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

 

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352

Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

 

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

 

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

 

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

 

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

 

 

 

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".

DR. HANSFIELD

 

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD

 

"I am sure you can find lots of people who belive that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

 

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?

I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA

 

"The observation on thousand and thousand of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK

 

What do you think ? Escorts are great example. They perform and receive oral sex all the time and many of them are unprotected but they still come out negative.

[Steven_Draker]

Grey area

 

What do you think ? Escorts are great example. They perform and receive oral sex all the time and many of them are unprotected but they still come out negative.

 

While I don't have an answer to your question, I prefer to be prudent when it comes to my health and the health of the people I see.

 

I perform oral sex with no condom, but I never let anyone cum in my mouth. First for safety reasons and second because I don't enjoy the taste and substance of ejaculate in my mouth. I've been tested negative for many years (last tested in December 2011).

 

That being said, there's oral sex and oral sex, and there are many 'ifs', that's why I think the CDC needs to be careful when giving recommendations. Very low risk isn't zero risk. One case I'm thinking of is when one has open sores in his mouth and swallows the cum of an HIV-positive partner with a high viral load who isn't under treatment. Anyone wants to experiment ... go ahead. I'll pass.

[josephga]

I'll be 44 tomorrow and never had cum in my mouth just the thought makes me want to gag I just never liked the texture or the smell of it. I agree with Steven regarding the safety

[shadowcatzxxx]

I'll weigh in here too. One of the most pernicious problems with the general understanding of medical science is the public's total lack of understanding of the nature of probability. very low risk, even extremely low risk, does not mean zero risk ... and physicians who say otherwise are being irresponsible ... for any number of reasons.

 

Yes, the studies say that the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex is VERY low. No argument with that statement. AND, even if the risk is as low as 1%, I would not want to be in THAT particular 1%, thank you very much!

 

the other thing is that safe sex these days is about a lot more out there than "just" HIV. there are numerous strains of multiply-drug-resistant gonorrhea, chlamydia, and syphilis floating around ... not to mention some nasty strains of several different types hepatitis. The first three are getting more difficult to cure; the last one has never been easy to get rid of and that hasn't changed. Some people (again, a small percentage) still have near-death experiences with Hep-C ... even when getting the best medical care.

 

So guys ... I'm not moralizing and not telling other people what to do or how to run their sex lives ... but I extend what Steven and Joseph say ... better be safe than sorry.

 

And as far as the CDC is concerned ... don't you realize that it is their JOB to be conservative in their health/safety recommendations?? Hello! With the current right-wing jihad against all government agencies increasing in frenzy every day, can you imagine what would happen if someone seroconverted and blamed their infection on absolute "no risk" statements by the CDC?

 

Again, I agree 100% with Steven: "Anyone wants to experiment ... go ahead. I'll pass."

[JT Brooklyn]

While I don't have an answer to your question, I prefer to be prudent when it comes to my health and the health of the people I see.

 

I perform oral sex with no condom, but I never let anyone cum in my mouth. First for safety reasons and second because I don't enjoy the taste and substance of ejaculate in my mouth. I've been tested negative for many years (last tested in December 2011).

 

That being said, there's oral sex and oral sex, and there are many 'ifs', that's why I think the CDC needs to be careful when giving recommendations. Very low risk isn't zero risk. One case I'm thinking of is when one has open sores in his mouth and swallows the cum of an HIV-positive partner with a high viral load who isn't under treatment. Anyone wants to experiment ... go ahead. I'll pass.[/color]

 

Totally Agree!

[+ Charlie]

While oral sex is certainly very low risk for HIV, it is not no risk, and it certainly is not no risk for other STDs, as I can tell you from personal experience.

[KMEM]

I completely agree and so sorry for your experience.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Guest coolguy]

That being said, there's oral sex and oral sex, and there are many 'ifs', that's why I think the CDC needs to be careful when giving recommendations. Very low risk isn't zero risk. One case I'm thinking of is when one has open sores in his mouth and swallows the cum of an HIV-positive partner with a high viral load who isn't under treatment. Anyone wants to experiment ... go ahead. I'll pass.[/color]

 

YES ! That would be risky ! but another case would be a person who has bleeding gums and giving oral sex to a receiver. Receiver would be at risk. However, many doctors disagree with this fact and say hiv is very fragile virus and once mixed with saliva, the saliva deactivates the virus and thus it is unable to transmit. They state that in order for oral sex to be risky for the receiver a person has to have a mouth full of blood and at which point ofcourse he would nt be sucking a cock. Also, there has been a 2 year study completed on posit-neg gay partners where one person remains neg and other person is positive and they exclusively practice oral sex with no anal. Then , the case you mentioned, even though we think it is risky they would disagree and say once the cum has been swallowed it mixes with the acidic fluids and deactivates the virus. The real risk would be when the person doesn't swallow and let it sit in the mouth.

[jjkrkwood]

I have been exclusively a practicing ORAList for most of my adult life, and while I dont like the taste of cum, and generally wont allow anyone to cum in my mouth, you just never know, and sometimes stuff happens...

 

I also had a partner for 22 yrs, during which time I was pretty monogamous, and thought he was too. However 11 yrs ago he suddenly took ill, and passed away within a weeks time, and upon his death I was advised cause of death was Full blown Aids. I NEVER KNEW...

 

Nonetheless, the point is, I have been periodically tested for HIV, before his death and AFTER, and have come up neg....

 

I believe if HIV was transmitted via ORAL, it would be an "unmanageable" epidemic, and I would be a statistic....

[Guest coolguy]

jjkrkwood, exactly I have talked to almost 6 doctors about it and all of them said the same exact thing you said that there would be more than 1000 cases of hiv via oral sex daily based on the number people practice oral sex in their life on the daily bases. But, one thing I dislike is that many STD clinics are not even testing people for HIV if people state that was their only exposure because they believe it's waste of their time and money. Some of the best well known doctors in infectious diseases at MEDHELP advices people not to test beyond 3 months and not even test for HIV if their only exposure was oral sex.

[Diverdan]

Charlie hit the nail on the head... there are a lot of very unpleasant diseases besides HIV that are capable of being transmitted orally... some can be very serious and others more of a nusance, such as herpes. However, herpes can also be a very serious disease for some people. I always think it is wise to err on the side of caution, IMHO.

[Guest coolguy]

yes ofcourse there are many other STDs but we are talking about HIV here. Herpes and all other diseases are really curable even though it could get serious but they are still curable unlike HIV, the biggest threat. As far as Hepatitis is concerned, Hep B can be easily transmitted via oral sex but of course many people are vaccined against it so they are safe and Hep C which is only blood-blood is very rarely transmitted via rough anal sex and fisting.

[jjkrkwood]

Charlie hit the nail on the head... there are a lot of very unpleasant diseases besides HIV that are capable of being transmitted orally... some can be very serious and others more of a nusance, such as herpes. However, herpes can also be a very serious disease for some people. I always think it is wise to err on the side of caution, IMHO.

 

 

 

Lets face it, sex is a Risk, PERIOD... If we stopped an analyzed everything that CAN occur, anyone in their right mind would NEVER have sex again.

 

I do agree with Caution. Paranoia, Not so much....

[RexAll]

A correction here- herpes is not curable. It's symptoms can be suppressed- although sometimes not very well. Even when suppressed, you still might be able to transmit it.

 

Rex

[jjkrkwood]

jjkrkwood, exactly I have talked to almost 6 doctors about it and all of them said the same exact thing you said that there would be more than 1000 cases of hiv via oral sex daily based on the number people practice oral sex in their life on the daily bases. But, one thing I dislike is that many STD clinics are not even testing people for HIV if people state that was their only exposure because they believe it's waste of their time and money. Some of the best well known doctors in infectious diseases at MEDHELP advices people not to test beyond 3 months and not even test for HIV if their only exposure was oral sex.

 

After my partner died, I tested EVERY 3 months for 5 yrs, never engaged in anal sex in that period, or before, and my doctor finally told me to STOP testing, it was unneccessary IF I hadnt engaged in unprotected anal sex.... As I said I am 100% ORAL and now, only test every 6 months.

[Guest countryboywny]

To my way of thinking, if unprotected oral sex is NOT low risk, I would think every gay man in the world would be infected. I suspect that there is a lot more oral sex going on than anal. IMHO, of course.

[Guest coolguy]

I agree ! But whatever the case is it is still considered a very low risk and people should be tested after 3 months of their last exposure but STD clinics are refusing to test ppl now if their only exposure is oral sex which i think is unacceptable. they should still test as long as it is totally confirmed that oral sex is NO RISK instead of very low risk.

[+ Charlie]

yes ofcourse there are many other STDs but we are talking about HIV here. Herpes and all other diseases are really curable even though it could get serious but they are still curable unlike HIV, the biggest threat. As far as Hepatitis is concerned, Hep B can be easily transmitted via oral sex but of course many people are vaccined against it so they are safe and Hep C which is only blood-blood is very rarely transmitted via rough anal sex and fisting.

 

Herpes is NOT curable, and it's a serious piece of misinformation to claim that it is. Flare-ups can be suppressed with medication, but for some people it is a problem that requires constant strong medication. Hepatitis A & B can be acquired orally, and although they can be cured in many people, some can be stuck with a permanent low-grade infection. The antibodies remain permanently in the blood, and there can be liver damage. Throat infections from other STDs are a definite risk. Depending on where the cock being sucked has been, parasitic infections are also possible.

 

HIV is probably the least likely disease to be acquired by sucking cock, but it is not a "safe sex" activity.

[instudiocity]

Anyone wants to experiment ... go ahead. I'll pass.[/color]

Gay Russian Roulette? No, thanks, besides, it's hotter watching him SPRAY!

[Guest coolguy]

charlie, i completely agree...

[Guest coolguy]

btw, am an apprentice now wow haha !

[shadowcatzxxx]

thank you, Charlie, for being so informed and articulate! Sorry about personal experience.