Respect

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Money Talks

 

Sorry, but however you may choose to characterize what you do, I am not going to believe that it is the equivalent of a doctor who gives up a lucrative practice to work for next to nothing with Doctors Without Borders or a lawyer who could work for six figures on Wall Street but chooses to be a public defender instead. I know people who are doing both those things right now. They are truly selfless people. I know of no escorts who deserve to be called that. None.

 

Regarding your remark that some clients treat escorts as pieces of furniture who only exist to serve their needs, I'm a little tired of hearing escorts complain about that. I have seen a number of threads in which escorts complain that clients do NOT treat this as just a business, such as by expecting the escort to stay over the usual time without additional pay or wanting to know something about the escort's personal life, even just his name. But on the other hand I have seen escorts here complain that clients DO treat this like a business and treat them as commodities rather than people. It seems to me escorts are going to complain about clients no matter what we do.

 

Well, no escort ever has cause to complain that I do not treat this like a business. I make it clear up front what it is I want, and if I get it then I pay what I agreed to pay, no more and no less. I don't ask for any personal info and do not give any. I never express any feelings for an escort and don't expect or want him to express any for me. Any escort who feels that this attitude is not sufficiently 'personal' is free not to see me. That is not a problem for me, as there are lots of attractive young guys who need money.

[Rod Hagen]

By the way I hope it was obvious that I don't think anybody should feel as if they MUST hire escorts; I did state that there are clear alternatives to escorts, and since that is the case it's reasonable to assume that I believe clients hire men solely because they want to. However, sometimes clients become self-deprecating (or self-defecating if you've seen the film "Kissing Jessica Stein") and pensive afterward, "I have to pay for it." The incorrect assumption being:

1.that anybody REALLY has to pay for it.

2. that paying for it is wrong.

 

In all honesty I look forward to some future date when I'm financially secure enough to hire like some of the other, presumably more business minded and therefore successful, escorts do. I think it'd be a kick. I had the opportunity when the economy was strong and my business was better; foolishly I allowed it to pass. I hope I get another chance.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Money Talks

 

> That is not a problem for

>me, as there are lots of attractive young guys who need

>money.

 

Someone needs a hug.

[Guest elwood]

I can understand the opinions of people with a vested interest in this site {e.g.Hooboy and Escorts)and why they might agree with Bobby's somewhat inflated and saccharine view of escorts..but Mark (Kal) and Alanalt and others raise an interesting perspective.This thread makes you think.

It's tough to make a living.Tough not to try and get by without being a sleaze, ripping someone off, lying,cheating,(just look at those otherwise RESPECTIBLE ENRON EXECS.)

I shudder to think of the true ethics of many johns

(myself included) as well as many escorts. It's a transaction and a profession.There are good and bad and horrible....you know... just like doctors,lawyers and police.In my year and a half of hiring..I have met some people I do indeed respect..humane,kind,professionals.And there has also been another side.(By the way, some real hotties on BOTH sides)Guess it still comes down to the old cliches...beauty,youth,sexiness..can all reside in an incredibly nasty and selfish and cruel individual and...for that matter vice versa.The escort/client relationship involves self loathing,insecurity,exploitation,selfishness,ON BOTH SIDES..but that is only part of it. This is the oldest profession and in many ways the most honorable..because, in a way..we are all selling what we have that others wish to buy:beauty,strength,intelligence,specific skills.Some of us enjoy selling our talents..some of us do not.Trying to get by,to survive, to live...without hurting or exploiting others...that is deserving of the ultimate respect.

[Guest Kalifornia]

dj apparently you are not the majority this time. Is that why you felt you needed to attack me personally. Your opinion is just that.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: An Escort Comments

 

>>>we are buying an irreplaceable part of

>>>that person's youth ...

>

>From my vantage point, this can be very true. Of the five

>friends of mine who escort, the one who just turned 21 has

>been escorting since he was 15.

 

How sad a 15 y/o escort. You didn't do anything to help him Franco?

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest Kalifornia]

>I do not respect everyone I meet; however, I try to treat

>everyone I meet with respect. (Don't always succeed) This

>gives them the opportunity to earn my respect and gives me

>the opportunity to earn their respect.

>

DaninWA I like what you said above quite a bit. It is exactly how I feel, you have just expressed it better.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest Kalifornia]

>My turn to comment...:-)

>

>I think Hooboy is right to

>bring up the subject and to encourage all of us to 'respect'

>escorts and certainly not to judge them based on their

>profession.

>

Alan, I don't feel that you would find too many in this forum who don't respect an escort based on their "profession." In mainstream America and other countries you might, but in this MC I don't feel there are any who have a problem with the profession itself.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest Kalifornia]

>Bob’s prose is too syrupy; that’s obvious. Newawleans is

>correct: Bob is overly dramatic presumably because the only

>sex, or perhaps the best sex, he has is with escorts.

>

>Deej has the best attitude of anybody in this thread.

>

>Benjamin has turned Kissing-Ass into an art. Bravo.

>

>I don’t respect someone who is my age and has settled for

>being a Burger Flipper. If he’s good looking as Kalifornia

>(or was it FuckAMarine? Sometimes the differences between

>their knee-jerk Verbal Bashings are indiscernable) stated,

>then that young man is a pussy for not escorting or modeling

>or doing something noble and/or profitable with his good

>looks, or ignorant for at least not thinking of it,

>(presuming he doesn’t live in Council Bluffs Iowa where

>hustling, modeling or whatNot might never occur to him).

>And if he’s not attractive but he is smart he should be

>doing something else entirely. Nothing good comes from

>working at McDonalds; except their French Fries-man those

>things are like sticks of salted heaven.

>

Rod I want to meet you at the McDonalds behind Carls near SMB for some salted heaven

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Money Talks

 

>Someone needs a hug.

 

No thanks. You're way too old for me.

[Boston Guy]

Oh, gosh...

 

We're all trying to live our lives as well as we can. Most of us try to live decent lives and be good sons, brothers, fathers, friends, companions and colleagues. Most of are deserving of respect.

 

Escorts and clients are no different; we're just people trying to live our lives and use our strengths and skills in some way that allows us to wake up in the morning and be happy. We're no different from each other, not in any substantive way, except in the ways that make each of us unique.

 

Everyone's time is equally valuable. I don't think youth is more valuable than middle age or old age. I've had too many friends die young to think we'll all live to a ripe old age and I've come to believe that each day should be lived to the fullest. But my time and your time are just as valuable as that belonging to any other person.

 

It's too complicated for me to have different sets of rules for different classes of people. So I treat everyone in my life in the same way. I respect everyone in my life and I expect them all to treat me with respect. If I find that someone is no longer deserving of my respect, then that person will no longer have a place in my life. But while they are in my life, they're just like everyone else and I treat them all the same, in the same way that I want to be treated. It's just easier that way and it's easier, too, to feel good when you look in the mirror in the morning.

 

BG

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Mother Theresa

 

>Sorry, but however you may choose to characterize what you

>do, I am not going to believe that it is the equivalent of a

>doctor who gives up a lucrative practice to work for next to

>nothing with Doctors Without Borders or a lawyer who could

>work for six figures on Wall Street but chooses to be a

>public defender instead. I know people who are doing both

>those things right now. They are truly selfless people. I

>know of no escorts who deserve to be called that. None.

 

I neither said nor implied being an escort was selfless. What I did do was comment on the assertion that escorts only do what they do because they cannot do anything else. I would kindly suggest that you read carefully what is written, what is responds to and to contextual all this information before you proceed to respond.

 

>Regarding your remark that some clients treat escorts as

>pieces of furniture who only exist to serve their needs, I'm

>a little tired of hearing escorts complain about that. ...

 

> But on the

>other hand I have seen escorts here complain that clients DO

>treat this like a business and treat them as commodities

>rather than people. It seems to me escorts are going to

>complain about clients no matter what we do.

>

>That is not a problem for

>me, as there are lots of attractive young guys who need

>money.

 

If you give someone rope and time enough, not only do they manage to get caught with their pants down but they also manage to make your point for you quite nicely while hanging themselves with their own words.

[BuckyXTC]

Wherever one finally comes down on the issues raised in this thread, one thing seems pretty clear to me.......that it is neither simple nor black and white.

 

Even the lowest scoundrel desires to be respected by someone....even if it is only by other scoundrels, so I'm inclined to say that the desire for respect is, at the least, pretty near universal across cultural boundaries. Now as to whether or not respect is warranted, in my opinion, is a matter of judgment in individual cases, based on the behavior of the parties involved. And based on one's particular value system and cultural milieu, what warrants respect varies widely. In some cultures, belching after a meal is considered highly appropriate, almost expected; in others it would be seen as boorish and crude.

 

From my perspective, the backdrop for a discussion of respect in regard to escorts and clients is the reality of materialism and cultural narcissism. We tend to respect persons who share our value systems and think as we do. If honesty is one of our "core values", we look for honesty as a trait in the people we choose to interact with, and we tend to avoid those who we deem to be dishonest. From my personal experience, I have been with escorts who were physically beautiful but intellectually and morally shallow. I'm probably safe in saying that most of us hope the escort we hire will be physically attractive, but there will be other things important to us as well..........will they match the description or persona they provided us in whatever manner they advertised?

 

BobbyB's description may be a bit over the top, even for me, but I believe he's hinting at something significant. Franco used the "furniture to be moved around" description to illustrate how people who escort can be "dehumanized". That's where I see the crux of the issue, but it also applies to clients as well. When a client sees an escort as merely an object of sexual desire, ignoring the humanity of that escort, there's a problem. And when an escort only sees dollar signs with respect to a client, it is the same thing. Is there more to an escort than the services he provides? Is there more to a client than the money he has to spend? I'm not sure "respect" is the issue, as much as "humanity". And when you live and move and have your being in a global culture that is focused on the acquisition of "things", it's not too hard to see why people get treated like furniture or worse.

 

I try very hard not to forget the "humanity" of folks I'm dealing with, in whatever form those dealings occur, because in the end, that's what we're dealing with......other human beings.

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Mother Theresa

 

>I neither said nor implied being an escort was selfless.

>What I did do was comment on the assertion that escorts only

>do what they do because they cannot do anything else. I

>would kindly suggest that you read carefully what is

>written, what is responds to and to contextual all this

>information before you proceed to respond.

 

No matter how carefully I read, I will not understand the phrase "what is responds to and to contextual all this information," because that is not an English phrase. The rules of this board are that posts must be in English.

 

If you are trying to say that the assertion "escorts only do what they do because they cannot do anything else" was made by me, please show me where in my posts you see it. And if you can't find that statement in my posts, then please stop making things up and claiming that I said them. Escorts don't have a good reputation for honesty as it is, and behavior like that certainly doesn't help.

 

>If you give someone rope and time enough, not only do they

>manage to get caught with their pants down but they also

>manage to make your point for you quite nicely while hanging

>themselves with their own words.

 

This is not the first time you have posted insults like the above on this message board. You have also criticized other people for doing the same thing. I think we all realize by now that you don't practice what you preach.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Money Talks

 

>No thanks. You're way too old for me.

 

First of all it wasn't going to come from me, even if you paid me.

 

Secondly, that's rich, you calling ME old.

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Money Talks

 

>>No thanks. You're way too old for me.

>

>First of all it wasn't going to come from me, even if you

>paid me.

 

There's not much chance of my paying you anything. You're too old for me to hire as a hooker, and I don't need an engineer.

 

>Secondly, that's rich, you calling ME old.

 

I guess it depends on your standard of comparison. Compared to Senator Thurmond, you're not that old.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Money Talks

 

>There's not much chance of my paying you anything. You're

>too old for me to hire as a hooker, and I don't need an

>engineer.

 

I wasn't offering.

[alanalt]

>Benjamin has turned Kissing-Ass into an art. Bravo.

>

Well, Rod, certainly no one could make the same comment about you! :-)

 

I'm sure he doesn't need it, but I'm going to come to Benjamin's defense anyway. The fact is there too few escorts that post regularly on this board and I cn't blame them. Yes, Rod you're a contributor and I value that contribution. I don't always (in fact, often ;-) ) agree with you, but your posts are well reasoned and make me think. The fact that Benjamin actually absorbed that lesson that our grandmothers tried to teach us (if you can't say anything nice about someone, say nothing at all) is worthy of a compliment. I know my grandmother would be very disappointed by how often I break that rule. }>

 

But I appreciate Benjamin's contribution too. His optimism and positive attitude are a welcome breath of fresh air to this board which is all too often cynical if not downright meanspirited! I'll tell you something else! Of all the escorts that I have not been with, Benjamin is one of two escorts that I would most like to hire (and would have if San Antonio wasn't so damned far from Alberta!) and that's in good part based on his contribution to this message board!

 

Alan (diatribe over, for now...;-) )

[alanalt]

>Alan, I don't feel that you would find too many in this

>forum who don't respect an escort based on their

>"profession." In mainstream America and other countries you

>might, but in this MC I don't feel there are any who have a

>problem with the profession itself.

>

>Mark -Kalifornia

 

It's late, I'm tired and cranky or I'd go through the archives to draw up a list. But I remember the Matthew Rush debate and the FFF post on an escort in Miami, whom he hadn't even met but tentatively identified on the street. I remember all too many posts from Regulation which attacked anyone, clients or escorts who didn't live in his 'black and white' world. There are other instances where unpleasant/derogatory comments were made about escorts, not based on actual experiences, but hearsay, reputation or whatever. Maybe it's not 'professionally' based, maybe it's something else... perhaps I should have said escorts in general.

 

However, I don't see you disagreeing with my basic premise, which was Hooboy was not wrong to promote basic respect for escorts, it's just unfortunate that he used that post from Bobby to do so...

 

And finally, yes, tolerance in the MC is higher than the country/general population, but considering the 'clientele' here that's not much of an achievement...;-)

 

Good night all!

 

Alan

[Guest fukamarine]

>Why do escorts deserve different treatment? Because they get

>naked and have sex with strangers? Honey, I've done it. It's

>a LOT more difficult than what I do every day! x(

>

>Why don't they deserve basic human respect?

 

Geeses - I never said they don't. Why do you keep ignoring my point that they are NOT saints and that they DO NOT deserve our undying praise and gratification just because they get naked and have sex with strangers. THEY ARE VERY WELL PAID for what they do. If they think they are giving up so much of their lovely youth, then let them take a job pushing screwdrivers in Sear's hardware department FOR MUCH LESS MONEY than getting naked and having sex with strangers.

 

And if they are so fucking worried about giving up any of their precious life because their "job" (be it escorting or or selling hardware) prevents them from being with their boy friend, PERHAPS THEY SHOULD BE ON WELFARE.

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Money Talks

 

>I have seen a number of threads in which escorts complain that

>clients do NOT treat this as just a business, such as by

>expecting the escort to stay over the usual time without

>additional pay or wanting to know something about the

>escort's personal life, even just his name. But on the

>other hand I have seen escorts here complain that clients DO

>treat this like a business and treat them as commodities

>rather than people. It seems to me escorts are going to

>complain about clients no matter what we do.

 

Good point. They can't have it both ways. They should make up their minds which it is they want.

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

>I don’t respect someone who is my age and has settled for

>being a Burger Flipper. If he’s good looking as Kalifornia

>(or was it FuckAMarine? Sometimes the differences between

>their knee-jerk Verbal Bashings are indiscernable)

 

fukamarine here! I find it amusing that you can't tell the difference between "knee-jerk Verbal Bashings" and simply expressing an opinion that is different from yours.

 

>Yes it’s for a price, and last I checked Policeman and >Anesthesiologists (the laziest of all doctors) are paid too.

 

Lazy are they? Well then the next time you have an operation, just tell the surgeon to skip the Anesthesiologist.

 

>Fuckamarine,

 

Please check the spelling of my name. It ain't spelled that way on my birth certificate.

 

>we don’t refuse your money no matter how much

>we enjoy ourselves, because if we did we wouldn’t have any

>income. Is that so hard to grasp?

 

Not really, I grasp it real well. I was just replying to a poster that claimed to know of an escort who only did it because he enjoyed it so much - not for the money.

 

>Should a Doctor refuse payment for eye surgery if the act gives him >some sense of satisfaction?

 

No. But he also shouldn't say he only does it because he enjoys it.

 

>By the way I may charge $200/hour, but I average less than

>$800/week.

 

Holy shit..... and you say anesthesiologists are lazy?

 

>It’s quite obvious that Kalifornia and Fuckamarine resent

>the fact that they feel they must “resort” to hiring

>escorts.

 

Hey Dumbo - you have no idea whether I hire escorts or not. I have never revealed that in any post to this board. So don't presume to know all about me. And with regards to having to "resort". You obviously have never seen me.

 

>I resent the fact that 27-33 year olds are still being

>referred to as “older”. Fuck That. We’re younger than most

>of the population,

 

True, but then again we wouldn't hire most of the population either.

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

Yes, there are sacrifices involved in every job.

>I look at one escort I know who's maybe been home for 6-8

>weeks so far this year.

 

Oh the poor dear. Let's all pass the hat for him. Bet he's put a 100 thou of untaxed dollars in the bank or the sock under his bed too!

 

:-)

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

Yes, there are sacrifices involved in every job.

>I look at one escort I know who's maybe been home for 6-8

>weeks so far this year.

 

Oh the poor dear. Let's all pass the hat for him. Bet he's put a 100 thou of untaxed dollars in the bank or the sock under his bed too!

 

:-)

 

fukamarine

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Very well put

 

And if you are wondering why I am not responding to some comments higher up on the thread, it is because I have learned for my own enjoyment and sanity, after a point reading, much less responding to comments of certain others is not the best thing for my peace of mind.