Card Carryin'

[Guest elime]

The discussion of HIV in another thread has got me thinking. Why is there no service that provides documentation as to the HIV status of the carrier of say, a card. I'm supposing that there is no real way to garanteed that something like that couldn't be faked, but then there would be a paper trail and hence documentable liability when someone lies about their status be they escorts or clients.

 

Recently when I was in Australia I found that all the escorts had to register and be tested regularly for STD's. This seems so reasonable I had to laugh.

 

Comments?

 

Would anyone use this. Should I start a business. My guess is that escorts and clients would never use this because they fear it would come back years later to haunt them. But then again, so can the cookies on your computer.

 

So, why hasn't this idea at least been tried...

 

emil lime

[phage]

Most likely because of the time it takes after you’ve been exposed until you would test positive. What’s the term…sereo-convert...seroconvert? Something like that. I’m sure you can actually be exposed and not test positive and I assume you are infectious during that period. (JT, where are you?)

 

I have heard that couples who are contemplating unprotected sex should get tested, remain monogamous for six months, and then get tested again.

 

Also, I would think the issuer of the card would bear tremendous liability. How much would you have to charge to cover the multi-million dollars law suits that would eventually be brought against you?

[+ deej]

Exactly.

 

And it's not just a matter of when you sero-convert. You can test negative, but get laid an hour after you have blood drawn and get the gift.

 

The only thing a card would tell you is that the guy was negative when he was last tested. It can NEVER tell you he's negative NOW. Sadly, many naieve people would assume the opposite.

[+ Lucky]

...This space intentionally left blank!...

[Guest elime]

>The only thing a card would tell you is that the guy was

>negative when he was last tested. It can NEVER tell you he's

>negative NOW. Sadly, many naieve people would assume the

>opposite.

 

Ofcourse, you can't PROVE A NEGATIVE. This goes for absolutely anything. But you sure could prove a positive. That would take care of escorts and clients who are HIV+ and yet willfully put others at risk for their own self centered pleasure.

 

What we are dealing with is an information vacuum. And that seems to be fine with a lot of people.

 

The naive btw are on their own imho.

 

emil lime

[Guest in yer face]

Yes, why not. Why dont we just tattoo it on everybody's forehead. Fuck our rights to privacy, you need to feel safe. Sorry buddy, I can guarantee you that most people would see this for the kind of stupid idea that it is and tell you to go fuck yourself if you tried to ask to see their "card". Heres one for you. Do you keep the results from your last HIV test in your wallet to show a prospective trick in a bar? If you do, youre a fool. There is nothing "reasonable" about it.

 

 

>The discussion of HIV in another thread has got me thinking.

>Why is there no service that provides documentation as to

>the HIV status of the carrier of say, a card. I'm supposing

>that there is no real way to garanteed that something like

>that couldn't be faked, but then there would be a paper

>trail and hence documentable liability when someone lies

>about their status be they escorts or clients.

>

>Recently when I was in Australia I found that all the

>escorts had to register and be tested regularly for STD's.

>This seems so reasonable I had to laugh.

>

>Comments?

>

>Would anyone use this. Should I start a business. My guess

>is that escorts and clients would never use this because

>they fear it would come back years later to haunt them. But

>then again, so can the cookies on your computer.

>

>So, why hasn't this idea at least been tried...

>

>emil lime

[Guest jon guy]

it pisses me off when clients expect me to take greater risks because they 'assure' me that they're negative. how can they? How can I?

 

Would a card really present any greater assurance? OK , assuming, (big assumption) that it couldn't be faked, it would spotlight those who had been tested positive, but it surely does a dis-service to many responsible positive guys out there to suggest that just becasue they do not shout about their status, whether as escorts, clients or otherwise, they are putting others at unnecessary risk.

 

Surely its a banal thing nowadays to say that the only way that we can be really safe is by presuming that our partners are positive, at least until we have been in a monogomous and safe relationship for long enough to feel fairly certain that they are not, and we are not!

 

I certainly would not expect any of my partners to allow me to do anything with them that would present a danger to them were i positive, and neither would i put myself at any unnecessary risk.

 

Life is a risk, and while we should do everything that can sensibly and reasonably costlessly be done to minimize it, i am not convinced that cards are the answer. They may rather legitimise further stigmatisation against those who are positive and safe!!

 

Aaaagggh -scream- responsibility for our health lies with ourselves, not with our partners - although that helps, or with the health authorities or anyone else!!

 

It scares me that we can get ourselves certified as free of various diseases or genetic dispositions. Ulitmately as you suggest, the increase in knowledge will come back and bite us - as for instance it does to those who are unable to get insurance because of hiv. status. I don't like the attitude that says - I have a card - i am free of this - it is not my problem. This attitude is irresponsible.

 

Sorry to come over a bit strong - its not personal.

 

x jon.

[+ deej]

>What we are dealing with is an information vacuum. And that

>seems to be fine with a lot of people.

 

What does a card do to fill in that void? Tell you that you should play safely?

 

YOU SHOULD DO THAT ANYWAY!

 

What information void does it fill in your mind?

[ad rian]

>Recently when I was in Australia I found that all the

>escorts had to register and be tested regularly for STD's.

>This seems so reasonable I had to laugh.

 

You are absolutely right. This is eminently reasonable, and there is no downside too it (except to the maketing strategies of certain defensive escorts) although it is clearly not a panacea.

 

>Would anyone use this. Should I start a business. My guess

>is that escorts and clients would never use this because

>they fear it would come back years later to haunt them. But

>then again, so can the cookies on your computer.

 

I think experience in other countries demonstrates that prudential health certification would be used in fact, and that it is the necessary corollary to legalizatipon or decriminalization of prostitution. I thing this would have to be done either by the government or under its authority to be effective so I don't see any immediate market opportunities.

 

>So, why hasn't this idea at least been tried...

 

Because of retrograde views of prostitution among a large segment of the population, and irresponsible and unrealistic opposition to health care certification among a large segment of prostitutes.

[Guest in yer face]

>You are absolutely right. This is eminently reasonable, and

>there is no downside too it (except to the maketing

>strategies of certain defensive escorts) although it is

>clearly not a panacea.

 

 

Uhh,

 

OK, so how long do you think it would be before such a "card" would start being used to isolate people? How long before perspective employers start demanding it? Before the government starts using that info to round people people up? Before people begin to rent HIV positve people apartments?

 

Sure, you could go into business selling such a "card" but it would be a novelty, nothing more. If it did become something, it would facilitate a very scary situation.

 

Just use your common sense. Assume that everyone is positive and play acordingly. I cant belieive that on an escort board that this is even an issue. Heres a news flash-nearly every escort I have ever kow is HIV positive. Duh.

[ad rian]

>I cant belieive that on an escort board

>that this is even an issue. Heres a news flash-nearly every

>escort I have ever kow is HIV positive. Duh.

 

Ok, let's assume you are correct, then why would they object to sharing that information with their clients other than it might not be good for business. Now, if it might not be good for business, doesn't that suggest that clients regardthatr as useful and relevant information to inform their voluntary choices? Why would you deny a client that information? By the way, I would still rent a house to/from an HIV+ person. I would not isolate them, and I would potentially employ them. I just would not knowingly stick my dick in one. Sorry, if that offends!

[Guest newawlens]

Your intentions seem good, so I'm sorry you had to put up with a bunch of unpleasant remarks from the usual posters who slam anyone who says anything that could be interpreted as critical of escorts. I remember one of your critics from the days when I used to post more often. There was a thread about an escort who canceled an appointment when the client told him he was positive. This poster thought there was nothing wrong with that behavior. In some recent threads the same poster has been highly critical of clients who say they don't want to hire a positive escort. So this attitude is okay for escorts but wrong for clients. This is the kind of logic you get from these people.

 

That said, your idea is impractical for several reasons. The main one is that escorts are in this for the money and are not likely to volunteer information that will cut down on their earning potential. One example would be the escorts who advertise under one name on mainstream escort sites and use another name to advertise on barebacking sites. If you email Beware-of-Nick he can provide you with some links on this issue. I'm afraid it just wouldn't work.

[Flower]

>>The only thing a card would tell you is that the guy was

>>negative when he was last tested. It can NEVER tell you he's

>>negative NOW. Sadly, many naieve people would assume the

>>opposite.

>

>Ofcourse, you can't PROVE A NEGATIVE. This goes for

>absolutely anything. But you sure could prove a positive.

>That would take care of escorts and clients who are HIV+ and

>yet willfully put others at risk for their own self centered

>pleasure.

>

How and why would clients get tested? Are you suggesting a mandatory test? If not, anyone can get either a test at a clinic or home test at this time. Are you suggesting that escorts NOT accept a client without a card and visa versa?

 

>What we are dealing with is an information vacuum. And that

>seems to be fine with a lot of people.

 

In NO way does your proposal come close to filling this "vacuum." A test merely identifies the HIV status as of the moment blood was drawn--nothing more and actually much LESS--that is, sero-conversion can occur without further sexual contact or exposure to the virus at any time after the blood being drawn, if the person tested was exposed prior to the blood test but b4 sero-conversion. Thus having in his possession your "informative card" and at the same time ready and able to infect. So what good does it do to have a card that in effect says" on June 24, 2002, I was not HIV+, but could become poz at anytime since then and could be poz now!!! ACTUALLY SUCH A CARD COULD GIVE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY TO OTHER NAIVE PEOPLE who upon seeing the card, aren't quite as safe as they would have been if they assumed the partner was poz.

 

Your idea just wasn't well thought out and it's a good thing you put out here before you went into "business."

>

>The naive btw are on their own imho.

 

I'm not sure it there is a quantitative difference between being naive and being uninformed, but quite frankly, you appear both naive and certainly uninformed on HIV -- neither of which is a good attribute for either an escort or a client participating in gay sex, which by definition is high risk.

 

Flower :*

[guyinsf]

I'm not sure you can compare "other countries" to the US, given our strong puritanical past and present. A quick shot of a butt on tv -- or two same sex people kissing -- is still a major media event with a lot of negative judgement. (It is, however, okay to depict as many murders as one wishes.) The US is a very violent country, and though we allegedly have "liberty" and "right to privacy," there are still a number of states that criminalize ANY gay sex and there are still cases of two consenting adults being prosecuted for having sex.

 

Having an HIV+ card in this country could have serious repurcusions, especially as the country keeps swinging farther to the right.

[+ Lucky]

But I wouldn't rent a house from you a narrow minded person like you.

[Guest in yer face]

>I just would not knowingly stick

>my dick in one.

 

Got news for you, you already have. It will be cold day in hell before you get escorts to agree to such conditions. Most of the time you arent even getting their real names. Do you really think that you could get their medical background?

[Guest in yer face]

I dont suppose that escorts would also be able to demand the same from their clients? So you wouldnt mind showing me your "card" with your full real name, plus another form of governemtn ID so I would know that its your "card", would you. The door swings both ways (in case you forgot), and I can assure you that most clients are not interested in giving up their real names, addresses and health info.

 

heres a test, Id like to seeyou print your full real name and address right here on the board for everyone to see. Bet you dont do it.

 

 

 

>The discussion of HIV in another thread has got me thinking.

>Why is there no service that provides documentation as to

>the HIV status of the carrier of say, a card. I'm supposing

>that there is no real way to garanteed that something like

>that couldn't be faked, but then there would be a paper

>trail and hence documentable liability when someone lies

>about their status be they escorts or clients.

>

>Recently when I was in Australia I found that all the

>escorts had to register and be tested regularly for STD's.

>This seems so reasonable I had to laugh.

>

>Comments?

>

>Would anyone use this. Should I start a business. My guess

>is that escorts and clients would never use this because

>they fear it would come back years later to haunt them. But

>then again, so can the cookies on your computer.

>

>So, why hasn't this idea at least been tried...

>

>emil lime

[guyinsf]

If by "banal" you mean "banal" simply "common," I agree. If you intend to imply that this notion has become outdated or silly, I disagree.

 

I would also assert that being in a monogamous and safe relationship for "long enough to feel fairly certain that they are not, and we are not (hiv+)" does not necessarily equate with being "really safe."

 

>Surely its a banal thing nowadays to say that the only way

>that we can be really safe is by presuming that our partners

>are positive, at least until we have been in a monogomous

>and safe relationship for long enough to feel fairly certain

>that they are not, and we are not!

>

[Cooper]

>Would anyone use this. Should I start a business.

>So, why hasn't this idea at least been tried...

 

In response: I hope and pray that medical researchers can quickly come up with a cure. So that ideas like this one don't get into the minds of our Conservative/Republican leaders.

 

Cooper: "Happiness is a short term memory".

[ad rian]

>Got news for you, you already have. It will be cold day in

>hell before you get escorts to agree to such conditions.

 

I said "knowingly". That's the whole point. I want to decide how much risk I choose to accept. Why does that trouble you so much?

[ad rian]

>But I wouldn't rent a house from you a narrow minded person

>like you.

 

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me! When was the last time you slept with someone with the bubonic plague or typhoid? I guess you would be a bigot if you wanted your partner, particularly one you are paying for, to inform you of a known risk like that? I pay for sex, not death. Sorry, my mind just has not got broad enough to encompass voluntary assumption of a death risk.

[+ Lucky]

Sex does not equal death. Rather than educate yourself you just slice off half of the gay population.

[ad rian]

>Sex does not equal death. Rather than educate yourself you

>just slice off half of the gay population.

 

No, but it is a question of the risk that any individual wishes to assume. I am stunned that so many on this Board would deny any individual the information necessary to make that informed choice, but instead mount the rhetorical pedestal for the Ms. Congeniality award. As I said before, if you like having sex with people you know to have comunicable diseases, just go to your nearest hospital, and make your preferences known. I am sure they can find you lots of diseased people to have sex with. Why stop at HIV, if that is your idea of a trip to the races?

[Guest in yer face]

>>Got news for you, you already have. It will be cold day in

>>hell before you get escorts to agree to such conditions.

>

>I said "knowingly". That's the whole point. I want to

>decide how much risk I choose to accept. Why does that

>trouble you so much?

 

What roubles me is that you are not able to see the bigger picture. In a effort to make you feel more at ease in your sex life, you would be willing to overlook the American right to privacy. The future consequences, such as forced testing, and any reprocutions that would arise from that mean nothing to you. Whatever, this conversation is stupid, and we are lucky that most people can see past their own dicks when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

To the guy that wants to start a business like this, by all means, please. Invest every dollar that you have in it. Hopefully when you are broke, you wont be able to afford internet access any longer and post your stupid ideas.

[+ Lucky]

ad rian, aren't you the lawyer in two countries? How can you be so ignorant?

I have had HIV for over 20 years. My partner of 20 years remains HIV negative.

How many gay relationsahip last more than 20 DAYS? If you cut off men with HIV, you really diminish your chances of finding true love.

But maybe that's not what you are looking for.