My World Has Shrunk...On the Fringe of Normalcy

[doitb4ugo]

Can I very respectfully ask the posting escorts and others on this site to help me understand why they think that the BDSM/Fetish world is something that escorts tend to stay away from when offering their services.

 

Is there still a stigma associated with these activites - are stereotypes about people who partake in these activites a negative when offering escort services.

 

Or is it strictly a question of a certain level of expertise required to perform in this set of activities.

 

I do realize that the marketplace has a great deal to do with what is successful. Yet many escort ads suggest that listing these activities is not detrimental. Why is it good business to advertise them but it is not good business to offer them?

 

Not an indictment of any one or any position, just a selfish desire to understand why the universe of escorts that I have to choose from shrunk dramatically when searching for BDSM/fetish activites.

[Prime Muscle]

I have had several requests for BSDB and I've turned them all down. As a sub, it's a security issue - I'm not willing to let someone I do not know -- and that I probally met online -- to secure me where I cannot control the scene. As a dom, you're right that it's an experience thing and I'm not into the scene. Don't get me wrong, if I'm with an experienced dom or doms the scene can be very hot but it's just not condusive for me to do with clients.

[whipped guy]

We BDSM guys tend to scare 'em away at times...

 

... just a selfish desire to understand why the universe of escorts that I have to choose from shrunk dramatically when searching for BDSM/fetish activities.

This is a problem… some advertise it, but have no clue. Others feel that it will scare “normal” clients away. Still others do get involved, but prefer to keep it under wraps and offer it to just some select clients. And yes! Still others are totally confused as to if it is something with which they should get involved. I have dealt with each of these types over the years.

 

Believing that most of us have a dark side, I have often contacted mainstream escorts to whom I am attracted. There is usually a bit of a hesitation… and in fact one very popular and well-reviewed escort (now retired) was actually afraid to come right out and say, “Hey… I just don’t feel comfortable doing that sort of thing.” Instead he strung me along… saying, “Gee, I seem to have misplaced your email.” Then when I responded by reiterating my request I got an email saying, “Why have you not responded to my last email? “ I needless to say never followed through.

 

Interestingly, some of my better experiences have been at the hands of so-called mainstream escorts... one vanilla guy got a glowing review from me about a year ago... and coincidentally I just submitted a review that I hope will soon see the light of day. Still, at least one other guy did not feel comfortable with a review... and it was just our "little secret".

 

In an ideal world one should be able to hire an escort who is into such activities and who also represents the type of individual to whom one is most physically attracted. Unfortunately, at least for me, when physicality is factored into the equation the already small escort pool shrinks even further. Consequently, one often needs to be more open minded regarding regarding experiencing different physical types (not a bad thing I might add) if they want to experience such a scene, contact a mainstream guy to whom you are attracted and see what develops, just wait it out until you are able to hook up with the BDSM specialist of your dreams when and if he visits your area, or simply dream about your ideal and never actually take any action.

 

Now as far as stereotypes are concerned I happen to have a picture of what my mind’s eye tells me doit looks like… and it is posted below. No wonder he is having trouble hooking up with even BDSM type escorts… not to mention that he might even be scaring a few of them away! :eek:

 

http://joshuablogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rGNAR.jpg

[NYTomcat]

Hey whipped I will let you know. Doit and I are having dinner this week. Now Did I pack a mutton leg for him to gnaw on and Perhaps some chains

[Guest Spanky]

Wait a minute...

 

 

http://joshuablogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rGNAR.jpg

 

Didn't Raul say in post yesterday that he once fucked a guy on the back of a motorcycle? I had NO idea that he was talking about Doit!

 

(this is how ugly rumors get started, huh?)

[doitb4ugo]

I've be outed.

 

Hey whipped I will let you know. Doit and I are having dinner this week. Now Did I pack a mutton leg for him to gnaw on and Perhaps some chains

 

Hey Tomcat, The chains are welcome but due to my strict weight-loss program I could not eat the mutton leg but with some imagination we probably could find a clever, hot use for it.

 

Thanks to all for the outing of my picture here on the forum.

 

Perhaps the police cycle is causing some people alarm...could not be my calm, passive demeanor.

[Mocha]

Can I very respectfully ask the posting escorts and others on this site to help me understand why they think that the BDSM/Fetish world is something that escorts tend to stay away from when offering their services.

 

I have done some BDSM things with a couple of clients, but overtime I realized that it just wasn't for me. However, I dont completely shy away from all forms of it. Some BDSM is heavier than others. I prefer the 'light side', which probably just seems light to me, now that I've seen heavy.

 

Fisting is one thing I tried occasionally, but I no longer offer that either. It just does not appeal to me.

 

Another thing is...alot of guys who call asking about BDSM are unusally full of it. Just today, guy calls telling me he likes to have his balls and ass slapped around, for me to be aggressive. I should have hung up on him, as the time came and went and he was a no show (which didnt surprise me at all, which is why I was at the gym when the time did come around).

 

For most, BDSM is acted out only in the porn flicks...Unless you're in NY. UK or San Fran, where anything goes.

[whipped guy]

Porn flick BDSM

 

For most, BDSM is acted out only in the porn flicks...

I think I know what you mean as the BDSM thing is a total fantasy for some... and possibly unlike "traditional" forms of sex... in the final analysis those fantasizing ultimately might not have the will to totally follow through with those fantasies... which are often hidden deep in the inner recesses of their persona. Plus, it does take some guts to get the ball rolling for many guys when they first think about attempting such a scene.

 

However, in a sense that kind of hits the nail on the head as well... at least for me... as I like to think that I am in a porn flick and I am the star. Actually, that mindset can refer to any type of sex, but for some reason with BDSM one feels as if they are the focal point of all the action... with the "camera" being totally focused on "the star".

 

Years ago most of the BDSM porn flicks were pretty tame. In fact I always thought that the real thing was much more exciting. However, today flick's are probably somewhat over the top and as such might scare some guys away... and scare both bottoms and tops into thinking that lunacy is involved. Hopefull you get what I mean by this...

 

At any rate, my personal fantasy is to be filmed doing this sort or thing...

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Rich,

 

First of all, I would invite you to re-consider the idea of "normalcy". Even if we assembled a board of two million people to debate and determine what "normal" is, that would be entirely impossible. We all believe that there are things that "all of us" regard as normal, that "all of us" are comfortable with, but if we scratch under the surface a little it turns out that there is not such a thing.

 

What is normal in this forum would be diabolical in a baptist church. What is normal for a house wife in Colorado would be terrifying for a Swahili woman. What is normal in The Castro would be alien in Chelsea. (Or at least it would be in bad taste.) I believe that the sooner we abandon the idea of normal and starting using "personal" instead, we will find that it is much more manageable a concept, without any dark emotional residue.

 

 

As for BSDM/Fetish services, even if I do mention them in my profile, I do not actively try to attract that kind of clientele. I was very fortunate to find an incredible teacher with whom I learnt a big deal about this kind of play and I understood how healing, powerful, mind blowing, life changing a good session can be. I learnt to look at sex and life in an entirely different way because of him. Because of that, I am rather experienced as a DOM in bondage, SM, fetishes, role play and fisting, and I have -almost by chance, met clients with whom to practice professionally.

 

The reason for which I don't pursue it more actively is the same reason for which I stopped meeting female clients on their own. (Well, not the same, but similar.) I found that the majority of female clients, after a very good session, would want to start blurring the boundaries and sooner or later it would become evident that they wanted to become lovers and stop the paid relationship. Since they felt a lot of shame for paying, (In their minds there was often the "women are supposed to be pursued, not charged" Idea.), they wanted to take back control by stopping the professional arrangement and pushing my boundaries.

 

I have found that there are a few experienced BDSM/Fetish clients that know what they want, understand the rules, are aware of their own boundaries and are perfectly willing to respect the DOM's boundaries. Meeting with this kind of client is great and I always learn something new.

 

Sadly, most of the times when someone enquires about any "alternative" service, it turns out that it is men who feel deeply ashamed and uncomfortable about what they want, they have not educated themselves about the safe ways to do what they want and have absolutely no desire to learn those and respect the agreed boundaries. Some men believe that having an alternative session just being rude with each other and use a groany kind of voice. Sometimes during the session these people turn out to be frantic, never communicate, never listen, become very clumsy and sometimes end up putting themselves and me at risk with their lack of control. In the end, since they have not yet understood the reason for which they want this kind of experience, they feel ashamed and guilty about having gone through that, and tend to see the DOM as an executor, as someone rude and evil who on top of that is going to take their money. These people more often than not become rude, mean, cheap, abusive. Since they don't understand that the SUB is at all times in control of the session, they try to take their power back by all sorts of tortuous ways.

 

After a session with someone like that, my overall feeling is that of exhaustion and disgust. Something took place that my client is not comfortable with, and he feels abused. Since I love my work and want to do only what feels good, that feeling is a terrible one.

 

With an experienced SUB, though, when the session ends there is nothing but a feeling of release, love, excitement, tenderness and mutual admiration and respect.

 

This kind of work is extremely rewarding but incredibly demanding, physically, emotionally, intellectually. One needs to be 1000% present, needs to be knowledgeable, experienced, take some risks and be loving and genuinely caring. After a BDSM/Fetish session I feel as if I ran a marathon. In my book, such a session deserves much higher fees than normal sessions but most would think that exorbitant.

 

Now, whenever someone requests alternative play, I am very clear about rules and boundaries. Normally that alone scares away the ones who are just wanting a "hot kinky time" and leaves me with the experienced ones. And even after that, I decide whether or not I am at that specific moment able to go through it.

 

I hope that you will find a way to find hot, experienced, caring guys to play with.

 

Do your research, be safe, be clear about your boundaries, be informed, communicate and enjoy!

 

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

+30 694 268 9904

 

http://www.daddysreviews.com/review.php?who=juan_vancouver*

[+ Lucky]

"Some men believe that having an alternative session just being rude with each other and use a groany kind of voice."

 

I try to picture this and can only giggle....your descriptions are often so perfect.

[Guest Spanky]

Long post alert

 

There is so much good stuff in Juan's post (isn't there always?) that I don't know where to start. I'll offer apologies in advance for the random synaptic misfires that you're about to read.

 

Hey Rich,

First of all, I would invite you to re-consider the idea of "normalcy". Even if we assembled a board of two million people to debate and determine what "normal" is, that would be entirely impossible. We all believe that there are things that "all of us" regard as normal, that "all of us" are comfortable with, but if we scratch under the surface a little it turns out that there is not such a thing.

Right on brother. Some of my gay friends know about my predilection for fetish and BDSM play. They call me a freak. I always ask - compared to whom? If you think I'm a freak, what do you think the blue-haired, bingo-playing church ladies are saying about YOU?! (And sorry for the "brother" - I've been channeling Desmond Hume the last couple of days...)

 

I have found that there are a few experienced BDSM/Fetish clients that know what they want, understand the rules, are aware of their own boundaries and are perfectly willing to respect the DOM's boundaries. Meeting with this kind of client is great and I always learn something new.

 

Absolutely. But this is not limited to guys that hire escorts – it’s a very significant segment of the gay population (probably the straight population too but I wouldn’t really know) that thinks they are into BDSM but has no idea what it really entails. Personally, I think it’s completely understandable that you are experienced as a dom but neither advertise it nor take a lot of BDSM clients. I put myself on the flip side of that coin – I consider myself a pretty experienced BDSM player but have never hired for BDSM play. Why? Because there is a corollary to your argument that’s been discussed in the fetish forum quite a bit – there are more than a few escorts that check the BDSM box in order to appeal to the largest segment of the hiring population, but when you get right down to it – what do they really know about key concepts like safety, technique, reading body language, limits, and on and on. And if I can't absolutely trust them to respect MY boundaries, why on earth would I play with them? Correction - why would I PAY to play with them.

 

Sadly, most of the times when someone enquires about any "alternative" service, it turns out that it is men who feel deeply ashamed and uncomfortable about what they want, they have not educated themselves about the safe ways to do what they want and have absolutely no desire to learn those and respect the agreed boundaries. Some men believe that having an alternative session just being rude with each other and use a groany kind of voice. Sometimes during the session these people turn out to be frantic, never communicate, never listen, become very clumsy and sometimes end up putting themselves and me at risk with their lack of control. In the end, since they have not yet understood the reason for which they want this kind of experience, they feel ashamed and guilty about having gone through that, and tend to see the DOM as an executor, as someone rude and evil who on top of that is going to take their money.

Again, right on. Key point – guys don’t understand why they want this experience. I’ve always thought there is an important distinction between BDSM and what I call fetish play, and this is where guys get tripped up (and I did notice that Juan refers to "BDSM/fetish" in his post). Fetish play would include all of the physical activities that most people would characterize as “kinky” (another enigmatic, debatable, and ill-defined term). Things like tying someone up, flogging, spanking, breath control, and the dozens of similar activities. I think that this sort of play can - sometimes - satisfy a guy’s physical needs. But what I consider to be BDSM is on a totally different level, and involves an exchange of power between the dom and sub that works not just to satisfy a guy’s physical desires, but also his underlying emotional, psychological, (even spiritual?) needs. If a guy can’t articulate (or more importantly - he doesn't even know) why he wants to give up complete control to someone else or why he receives pleasure from experiencing submission and/or pain (or the flip side if you’re a dom), then I don’t know how you get into the headspace to really benefit from a BDSM session.

 

A lot of the guys that I have met just want to explore the physical side of things. They don’t care about the power thing or getting in a completely different head space. Is that ok? Sure. I enjoy getting tied up and flogged (or administering the flogging) as much as the next guy. Just make certain that the players involved understand the basic concepts of safety, technique, body language, limits, etc. And make sure that both players know what the objective is – physical versus emotional/psychological – otherwise one guy is headed in one direction, and the other is going off in another. Never good. Personally, fetish play is what I do more than anything else just because that's what my FBs are into. But it's not BDSM play. And lately I'm finding that this particular brand of play isn't much more satisfying than good old “vanilla” sex.

 

Next random synaptic misfire: I think to really get to the point where you can just give up control to someone – or assume the dominant position over another – requires a great deal of trust. It’s something that needs to be built up over time. There a ton of things I would never do the first couple of times with a guy – escort or otherwise – that can gradually be introduced into the repertoire over time. This is also part of the reason I've not hired for BDSM play - unless the guy is local, I'm not sure a one-off would be all that satisfying.

 

Some men believe that having an alternative session just being rude with each other and use a groany kind of voice

Is there a hall of fame for great message forum quotes? This one kills!

This kind of work is extremely rewarding but incredibly demanding, physically, emotionally, intellectually. One needs to be 1000% present, needs to be knowledgeable, experienced, take some risks and be loving and genuinely caring.

So many guys I’ve met think that BDSM is all about hurting someone else and causing them pain. They’ve no idea what a deep connection they can create through fundamentally altering the power dynamic between the two participants. I guess this goes back to your original point; I can see why guys might get confused and blur the line between escort and lover. Hell, maybe it's a good thing that I have never hired for BDSM play. I'd probably end up with some teenager-like puppy dog crush.

 

Ok, stream of consciousness over. I bet no one actually makes it to this part. But if they do, I'm sure no one here will ever call me normal again with all this talk about power dynamics.

[doitb4ugo]

Nirvana

 

 

Again, right on. Key point – guys don’t understand why they want this experience. I’ve always thought there is an important distinction between BDSM and what I call fetish play, and this is where guys get tripped up (and I did notice that Juan refers to "BDSM/fetish" in his post). Fetish play would include all of the physical activities that most people would characterize as “kinky” (another enigmatic, debatable, and ill-defined term). Things like tying someone up, flogging, spanking, breath control, and the dozens of similar activities. I think that this sort of play can - sometimes - satisfy a guy’s physical needs. But what I consider to be BDSM is on a totally different level, and involves an exchange of power between the dom and sub that works not just to satisfy a guy’s physical desires, but also his underlying emotional, psychological, (even spiritual?) needs. If a guy can’t articulate (or more importantly - he doesn't even know) why he wants to give up complete control to someone else or why he receives pleasure from experiencing submission and/or pain (or the flip side if you’re a dom), then I don’t know how you get into the headspace to really benefit from a BDSM session.

 

A lot of the guys that I have met just want to explore the physical side of things. They don’t care about the power thing or getting in a completely different head space. Is that ok? Sure. I enjoy getting tied up and flogged (or administering the flogging) as much as the next guy. Just make certain that the players involved understand the basic concepts of safety, technique, body language, limits, etc. And make sure that both players know what the objective is – physical versus emotional/psychological – otherwise one guy is headed in one direction, and the other is going off in another. Never good. Personally, fetish play is what I do more than anything else just because that's what my FBs are into. But it's not BDSM play. And lately I'm finding that this particular brand of play isn't much more satisfying than good old “vanilla” sex.

 

Ok, stream of consciousness over. I bet no one actually makes it to this part. But if they do, I'm sure no one here will ever call me normal again with all this talk about power dynamics.

 

 

Thanks Spanky. I do understand the point you are making. Over the last several months, I have been exploring my own sexuality for the first time.

I initially had some trouble interacting with partners due to my emphasis on activities during a session. This was compounded for me by escorts/partners asking what types of things I wanted to do. I never had a good answer for this question.

 

One very wise escort in an e-mail asked me: "what do you want to FEEL?" Or how do you want to be made to feel? When I read through his e-mail, This very basic question threw me because I had never asked it. Thinking about it for a few days during my train rides to and from work led me to a new and better understanding of where I was headed and where it was that I wanted to go...

 

I ran through my mind the events where I felt a deep emotional connection when something happened with a partner. These deep moments were about letting go and shifting the dynamic to the other person. I felt quite free when my ego was totally submerged and I had no reason left to think. For me it was an eye-opener. I think this realization brought me to the BDSM world where the fetish activities were what was taking place while I no longer existed. I think the Fetish activity is the vehicle and my subordination is the destination. It is hard to describe (yet I have used enough words).

 

P. S. I do understand the emotonal connect problem with this letting go. I did indeed develop such a crush on my fisrt m2m encounter...not good and not helpful but was real at the time nonetheless.

[whipped guy]

Probably words can't adequately describe it...

 

It is hard to describe (yet I have used enough words).

It is indeed hard to describe... I recently submitted a review where I touched on some of these issues. I worked on it for several days to try to adequately express my feelings. The review came in at over 2000 words where I not only describe the action, but also get a bit involved in the psychology, the excitement, the emotions, and the passion of it all...