medical marijuana

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Is this a good or bad thing, or is this just the beginning of the legalization of a recreational drug that has destroyed thousands of people's lives due to criminal arrests and imprisonment for simple possession?

 

With Tuesdays vote in Washington D.C. - 15 states now permit the use of medical marijuana. http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000881

 

 

D.C. Council unanimously backs medical marijuana in preliminary vote

 

By Tim Craig

Washington Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, April 21, 2010

 

Hundreds of chronically ill District residents will be able to buy government-sanctioned marijuana by the end of the year under a measure that was unanimously approved by the D.C. Council on Tuesday.

 

Without debate, the council authorized five medical marijuana distribution centers throughout the city, a number that could grow to eight in coming years. A patient who has HIV, glaucoma, cancer or a "chronic and lasting disease" will be able to receive a doctor's recommendation to possess up to 2 ounces of marijuana in a 30-day period.

 

Patients would not be allowed to grow marijuana but could buy it from dispensaries that are licensed and regulated by the Department of Health. Underprivileged residents who qualify will be eligible to purchase their drugs free or at reduced cost.

 

"This legislation seeks to avoid problems while assuring the District moves forward with a medical marijuana program that is based on evidence and best practices," said council member David A. Catania (I-At Large), chairman of the Health Committee.

 

Advocates heralded the council vote as one of the final steps of a years-long struggle to act on a 1998 referendum in which 69 percent of residents voted for medical marijuana.

 

But some advocates and marijuana growers say the District's law is destined to fail because it is too restrictive and, therefore, might not attract established growers who could meet the District's requirements.

"I think the bill is deeply flawed, and I don't think it is going to achieve the purpose, which is protect patients," said Steve DeAngelo, executive director of Harborside Health Center in Oakland, which distributes medical marijuana to about 40,000 patients in California. "The regulations may be setting up a system that drives patients back onto the streets."

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042004751.html

[+ Gar1eth]

Ok this may shock people but I swear it's the truth. I am not a marijuana aficionado. I have always found it hard to believe that out of all the medications available for nausea that some people can only find relief with side effects they find acceptable by smoking a dooby. I mean I can imagine it happening occasionally, but I always wonder if the majority of proponents for medical marijuana can really only get relief from smoking it or if they really just are looking for an excuse to get high.

 

I guess the main thing I hate about the stuff is the smell. I am fine with the pill form of THC. I also have nothing against hemp.

 

Gman

[+ blondeq]

Many people have excellent options for controlling nausea, however the 'best' drugs for treatment are administered IV or intramuscularly which means patients have to drive to a healthcare facility to recieve the drug or learn to inject themselves. Additionally, the best drugs can cost as much as $150 per dose and come with some nasty side effects. The point is that Mary Jane can provide the same relief as prescription drugs at a much lower cost, fewer side effects, and is convenient.

[Guest]

I actually voted for the proposition legalizing medical marijuana use in California, but have since had second thoughts. The current reality is that there is currently no oversight for marijuana prescriptions (unlike those for other controlled substances), and anyone who wants a "medical marijuana card" in California can get one. Unlike other controlled substances (even Vicodin and Valium), marijuana prescriptions are not being recorded in Sacramento (Calif. capital), and are not available for medical professionals to inspect.

While marijuana does have bona fide medical uses, especially when it comes to treating weight loss in cancer and AIDS patients, lax regulation in California had resulted in most of the use being entirely inappropriate. A prime example would be a 300 # patient who takes it for "back pain." Of course, the main reason for the back pain is the morbid obesity, which the marijuana is exacerbating. I advised a patient I would be willing to prescribe opiods for pain on the condition that he stopped smoking pot and made efforts to support his back with other methods such as physical therapy and weight loss. He said yes, but a drug screen a few weeks later confirmed he was still smoking pot (and of course gaining weight).

The information about ondansetron costing $150 a pill is a bit out of date. The drug went generic in the U.S. about a year ago and now costs about 50 cents a pill.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

A prime example would be a 300 # patient who takes it for "back pain." Of course, the main reason for the back pain is the morbid obesity, which the marijuana is exacerbating. I advised a patient I would be willing to prescribe opiods for pain on the condition that he stopped smoking pot and made efforts to support his back with other methods such as physical therapy and weight loss.

 

That's interesting. I have never heard of medical marijuana being prescribed or suggested for use to control pain. It has always been ( to my knowledge) discussed and considered as an appetite stimulant for those wasting from various medical conditions and relief of chronic eye pressure from glaucoma.

 

It would seem to me that there are sufficient and numerous pain relief medications available which have been thoroughly tested and developed by the pharmaceutical companies to alleviate the need of adding marijuana to it.

 

As far as an appetite stimulant however, I don't think the pharmaceutical companies have much interest in spending a lot of their R&D funding to develop a really effective one which offers the same effect that marijuana does. It certainly would only be suitable for individuals residing in countries where there is a sufficient food supply and when you consider South Africa, for example, appetite stimulants in a country where food is so scarce would be down right cruel. So isn't it really a matter of little return on an investment that prevents these companies from going forth in development.

 

When you consider the advancement in HIV anti virals, for instance, which have considerably reduced if not reversed wasting in most those affected - the market place seems relatively small for a new, more effective appetite stimulant, aside from what we already have.

 

I agree, Effectively regulating this in a consistent and effective manner will be difficult.

[MsGuy]

For ideological (& political/culture war reasons) the anti-drug folks chose to block sale of marijuana through regular pharmacies for decades. Eventually the pro-weed crowd hit on the idea of marketing legalization as 'medical marijuana' & trotted out some sweet old biddies with cancer as poster children. I mean, how are you gonna convince the boomer generation to slap the cuffs on terminal people, if a toke or two makes them feel better?

 

Like it or lump it, the result is very high potency weed available to anyone who wants it, directly w/'prescription' or through an enterprising intermediary. Reminds me of when Ms. was 'dry' and anybody who was tall enough to push a couple of bucks across the counter could buy whiskey from the bootlegger.

 

It's going to be difficult to regulate the business unless the Feds back off and allow the sale to be conducted through pharmacies and the regular prescription process, but then that would require a modicum of common sense.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

For ideological (& political/culture war reasons) the anti-drug folks chose to block sale of marijuana through regular pharmacies for decades. Eventually the pro-weed crowd hit on the idea of marketing legalization as 'medical marijuana' & trotted out some sweet old biddies with cancer as poster children. I mean, how are you gonna convince the boomer generation to slap the cuffs on terminal people, if a toke or two makes them feel better?

 

Actually, I've yet to see any so called poster child "sweet bitty type" lobbying anywhere to further marketing of the weed. It's been clinical, yes, but from what I've seen it's less than catering to the boomer generation for support. If anyone is going to further the legalization of pot, it's more than likely going to be the "X" generation as opposed to the boomers, imo.

 

It's going to be difficult to regulate the business unless the Feds back off and allow the sale to be conducted through pharmacies and the regular prescription process, but then that would require a modicum of common sense.

 

I've always hoped that someday I could pick up a few plants at CVS and Walgreen's, while getting my usual shampoo and stuff.

 

It saves me a trip to Lowe's.

[Epigonos]

I for one have had it with the “War on Drugs”. We, in the United States, have spent billions, that’s right billions, of dollars on this war and we have absolutely NOTHING to show for it. WE HAVE LOST THE WAR. I have seen up close what this country’s insatiable desire for drugs has done to Mexico. Cartels fighting each other for the right to drug route into the U.S. Drug Cartels continue to butcher police and military personal to protect their fiefdoms. The U.S. government turning a blind eye to the laundering of drug money in this country and allowing the cartels to purchase unlimited quantities of automatic weapons to export into Mexico so they can kill more efficiently.

 

As far as this conservative Republican is concerned it is time, and more, to legalize ALL drugs. Let users registrar with the government and buy their beloved drugs legally and taxed. Maybe if we are lucky large numbers of our users will O.D. and we won’t have to deal with them. Call me callous and unfeeling if you wish BUT I refuse to believe that drug users are ILL just like I refuse to believe that alcoholics are ill and that obese people are ill. We all make choices and we should live with the consequences of those choices without society charging in to make excuses for us.

[+ Lucky]

Epigonos is not going to get the Hooville Warm and Fluffy Award this year.

[MsGuy]

Could be just the lingering brain damage from all the stuff I ingested back in the day, ChgoBoy, but I seem to remember the ad campaign for the medical marijuana proposition in Cali featured a lot of solid citizen types testifing how much they relied on weed to manage their ailments. All well and good, but 99% or better(IMHO) of the goods sold in LA is for recreational use.

 

In my book that's de facto legalization but with the problem (benefit?) of no quality control. Some of the weed on sale is so thick with resin that it's hard to roll a usuable joint. You need a hash pipe just to smoke the stuff.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Epigonos is not going to get the Hooville Warm and Fluffy Award this year.

 

That's probably because, at the very least, he does not necessarily subscribe to what defines "Hooville People" in the manner in which you do.

 

I suspect, that during your little gathering out there in Palm Springs, that there were, by some, somewhere, illegal drugs that were not necessarily part of the event.

 

Defining Hoo will, and Hoo will not, receive the fluffy award this and next year, with this criteria, really does define what your party group defines itself as being.

 

I'm sure you'd like to restate that criteria should you have the chance. I sure know that I would.

[Epigonos]

ChgoBoy I must say I find your comments about the Palm Springs Hooville gathering rather disconcerting. I attended all of the weekend events beginning with the Saturday evening dinner and ending the Sunday evening dinner after the conclusion of Oliver's open house. To the best of my knowledge there were NO illicit drugs used at ANY of the events. I speak only regarding the public events as I certainly have NO knowledge regarding what individuals choose to do and not do in the confines of their own hotel rooms or homes.

[+ Lucky]

The Hooville People (copyright CHIBOY)

 

Oh Epigonos, we didn't tell you about the magic mushrooms and acid trips we were all doing...why do you think there was so much sex happening everywhere? And I coulda sworn that was Benjamin Nicholas on the stripper pole...but Oliver insisted that it was jackhammer...

[+ purplekow]

As far as medicinal marijuana goes, there area uses but not nearly enough to warrant the billions of dollars of marijuana sold in California. It is a hoax. As far as wasting goes, plenty of patients with HIV continue to waste as do most cancer patients and some otherwise healthy seniors. Marijuana has its uses but lets treat it like tobacco and tax it for legal use. Home grown might be good for some but for the primo stuff, no one should have better weed than big Tobacco turned Big Marijuana.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

ChgoBoy I must say I find your comments about the Palm Springs Hooville gathering rather disconcerting. I attended all of the weekend events beginning with the Saturday evening dinner and ending the Sunday evening dinner after the conclusion of Oliver's open house. To the best of my knowledge there were NO illicit drugs used at ANY of the events..

 

And I'm delighted to hear that Epigonos! It was never my claim that there ever were ANY drugs there which were part of the event. Quite the contrary I believe.

 

I was simply commenting on Lucky's dismissal of your chances of being this years recipient of the coveted Hooville "Warm and Fluffy Award" this year. That which was based upon your expression and feelings of the drug war failures of our society and country - which you expressed earlier here.

 

Perhaps I intervened inappropriately. If so, I apologize.

[+ Lucky]

Next time you potsmokers are contemplating your place in the universe, consider this pic, from NASA via towleroad.com:

 

Photo: First Image of Earth Shot from Another Planet's Surface

 

http://towleroad.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c730253ef0133ecf97325970b-800wi

An upload to Flickr today from the Goddard Space Flight Center.

[+ Lucky]

And, on legalizing drugs, consider this:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/education/27reed.html?hpw

[MsGuy]

Thank you, Lucky & NASA.

 

Neat photograph.

[Guest]

As far as this conservative Republican is concerned it is time, and more, to legalize ALL drugs. Let users registrar with the government and buy their beloved drugs legally and taxed. Maybe if we are lucky large numbers of our users will O.D. and we won’t have to deal with them. Call me callous and unfeeling if you wish BUT I refuse to believe that drug users are ILL just like I refuse to believe that alcoholics are ill and that obese people are ill. We all make choices and we should live with the consequences of those choices without society charging in to make excuses for us.

I really can understand where this argument is coming from, but the reality is what do you do with people whose lives have been permanently screwed up by drugs. Yes, some of them do die, and that takes care of that problem, but most are probably just maimed. What do you literally do with the crack addict who has a stroke and is now in a wheelchair? Or the meth addict with CHF who's constantly short of breath? (Or the 300# pot addict with constant back pain?) I really can't think of a good answer. Are you going to put them all on an island? If the use becomes legal as you suggest, what would be the legal mechanism for doing that?

Just as legalizing pot has created more social invalids in California, I'm afraid legalizing other (more dangerous) illegal drugs would also swell the ranks of the disabled. One really has to think of what will really happen with these people and who will pay for it. I suppose one solution would be to have a very high tax on the previously illegal substances, the funds of which would go to support some sort of nursing home or board & care facility for these people. Would there be sympathy for people who disable themselves by doing something legal?

[body2body]

I believe that Pot should be made legal, taxed, and regulated like alcohol and cigarettes. Here in California the "medical" marijuana law is a joke. The pot shops will hook you up with a Dr. Feelgood who will write you a prescription valid for 6 months for $200. I walk past a local pot shop, that is very busy, on my way to the Gym 3 or 4 times a week. What you see are a lot of well to do people, who look to be in perfect health, leaving with their little bags and getting out to their cars and lighting up with their friends on the nearest side street. None of these people are wasting away. Its a farce. When the closing of pot shops was brought up before the L.A. City council, there were scores of people screaming that they "needed their medicine". Please spare me the drama. Make it legal, put a 100% tax on it, and put all the pot farmers destroying our state and national parklands by growing weed there out of business.

[SFSteve]

I believe that Pot should be made legal, taxed, and regulated like alcohol and cigarettes. Here in California the "medical" marijuana law is a joke.

 

Yes, absolutely. As currently implemented, it is a joke. But I agree with you body2body, fix that problem and move forward, not backwards.

 

Just as legalizing pot has created more social invalids in California,

 

Unicorn, really!!?? I suppose that you have some study somewhere that says so, but I don't buy it. I believe that drug abuse is the effect, not the cause. I believe that mostly we have social invalids, and many end up abusing drugs. Don't you think that your 300# patient has deeper issues than just smoking pot? They will do it regardless of whatever laws are in effect. But even if you don't agree with that, I think you would agree that many of our social invalids abuse alcohol. If so, would you recommend as a solution that we criminalize everyone producing, distributing and consuming alcohol?

 

As has been said above, the war on drugs is a huge failure. Let's try something else.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

the funds of which would go to support some sort of nursing home or board & care facility for these people. Would there be sympathy for people who disable themselves by doing something legal?

 

Isn't that really a gross over reaction and unfounded conclusion to the legalization of marijuana?

 

This multi decade long argument that pot turns individuals into irresponsible zombies and tomorrow's addicts of more powerful drugs is simply a fear tactic used by those who fear another recreational mind altering drug being made legally available for use. I don't buy that and the pot v. alcohol argument gets tiring after awhile as well.

 

The war on drugs is a failure because people have always, and probably always will, want and desire altered states of mind at times, for all the reasons (and more) that alcohol provides them. It's obviously a part of the human condition which one can not deny.

 

I've always been amazed at the number of people who use poppers on a regular basis or have no issues with people using them - but get all jacked out of shape should someone hit up a bong or joint.

 

This is now a social and cultural movement which never comes easily in this country. Is is not dissimilar to the push for the legalization of gay marriage.

 

Two very similar and controversial topics that people fear will ruin our people and their morals. OMG, gay marriage will ruin an institution which was always once restricted to a man and woman and will cast havoc upon our society and children. Our children will become gay once they see it as an acceptable and legalized lifestyle.

 

So it's begins with the medical aspects and benefits first, because that's the most palatable for those who fear it. Yes, it is a joke in many cases as to how it is being regulated (or not), but that hopefully will change too.

 

When you really look at where the harm from pot possession and consumption comes from, it really isn't exclusively from it's use, just like alcohol is not. The difference being is the harm that comes to those who are arrested, imprisoned, the enormous costs to imprison them to our state and federal budgets and then of course, the criminal record that follows them for the rest of their lives which then damages them further again with background checks and denial of employment etc.

 

I'm not saying drugs don't cause other problems for people too. But surely, the legalization of marijuana could do no more harm to our society than alcohol already does. Perhaps, it will even make it better, in some instances.

 

It won't be this year, or within the next five or ten years probably - but someday, marijuana will be a legal substance to possess and consume - as well as all of the responsibilities that go along with it's possession.

 

And yes, tax it fairly.

[KMEM]

The war on drugs is a political issue, just like all the others. However, does anyone know and can produce evidence that potheads are better than alcoholics? Anyone deep into ANY drug, whether it be alcohol, marijuana, pep pills or whatever, has a PROBLEM. Exactly how does legalizing marijuana "cure that"?

 

From the drug tests given to folks in my industry I think I know that marijuana "lingers" in the system and therefore can be detected well after the use. I don't know for sure if the "effects or possible effects" also linger but I do know that alcohol and most pills do not test for very many hours. The immediate effects of any and all of the presumbed drugs that I am referring to might not "linger" and ALL of the drugs do have "cumulative" lingering effects. If you USE it a lot, you might be influenced a lot.

 

I have no problem with end of life or truly pallative treatments for those with terminal "problems". In the meantime why aren't we all exercising more and eating better and doing something positive for ourselves and the rest of the world?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Guest ChgoBoy]

However, does anyone know and can produce evidence that potheads are better than alcoholics?

 

I don't think that there is any clear data on that yet KHEM. And I also think it's unfair to classify people who drink, alcoholics, and those who smoke pot, potheads.

 

But what is clear, is the data on alcohol. As of this day, 3,792 people have been killed in drunk driving automobile accidents already this year. Spread that out over avg for the year, we're looking at over 14,000 Americans killed on the roadways alone due to alcohol consumption. That's a considerable number and it represents, apparently, an acceptable loss of life by the American people to continue the legalization of this drug.

 

Add to that number boating accidents, skiing accidents, snowmobile accidents, unintended usafe sex practices, bungy jumping accidents etc., you can see that many people who consume alcohol are very irresponsible and very dangerous, besides deadly.

 

When airline crews report to work with illegal levels of alcohol in their blood from the night before (or even the very morning of) when they are responsible for hundreds of passengers lives in the back cabin, I think it's safe to say that alcohol can be a very dangerous recreational drug. But there it is, as legal and as acceptable as a milky way candy bar.

 

Anyone deep into ANY drug, whether it be alcohol, marijuana, pep pills or whatever, has a PROBLEM. Exactly how does legalizing marijuana "cure that"?

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it should or that it will cure anything. Just because you (not you) have a problem with drug use responsibility - doesn't mean that every one else does, or will. It's clear that our society is readily in acceptance to the deaths and problems inherent with recreational drug use. It we weren't, alcohol would once again become prohibited.

 

I'm not advocating the use of ANY recreational drugs by anyone. It just seems like it's time to act in a more responsible and intelligent manner when it comes to recreational drug useage in our country.

 

I have no problem with end of life or truly pallative treatments for those with terminal "problems".

 

I suspect few do. Why would any one? But that of course is not what we're talking about here.

 

In the meantime why aren't we all exercising more and eating better and doing something positive for ourselves and the rest of the world?

 

I don't know. Why aren't you?

[KMEM]

CB-

 

I don't think I said anyone who drinks is an alcoholic or anyone who uses marijuana is a pot head, only those who abuse either one might be described as such.

 

If you are suggesting that Americans should or do accept the loss of life via alcohol or other drugs I would like to mention that they also accept the loss of life in auto accidents in general to the tune of 35-40,000 per year from whatever causes. Do you wish to stop driving and not allow anyone else to do so?

 

Your mention of airline crews is interesting. The pilots do have rules which vary from 8 hours to 12 hours to more between bottle and throttle aka flying. If one becomes seriously inebriated, 12 hours might not be enough but those folks are not "social" drinkers, are they? Should anyone who operates any machinery capable of injuring or killing other folks be "allowed" to take drugs of any sort before they operate same? What are the "reasonable" societal rules?

 

I thought we were talking about the use of "legalized marijuana here, what are we talking about?

 

I am eating better and exercising more. Are you?

 

Best regards,

KMEM