The Ashcroft Agenda

[BewareofNick]

Naked Tony suggested I spin this off into its own thread, so I shall. Based on the recent events with Stef and Adam, I thought it had releveance.

 

This is from the Washington Post:

New Orleans Brothel Made a Federal Case

FBI Wiretap Finds Elite Clientele, No Mob Ties

 

By Adam Nossiter

Special to The Washington Post

Monday, June 3, 2002; Page A03

 

 

NEW ORLEANS -- The calls from wealthy men to the white-columned Victorian house were about women: who was available, what they looked like and what they would do for top dollar. The callers were bankers, stockbrokers, a telecommunications mogul, a member of one of the city's leading restaurant families, a former head of the prestigious Mardi Gras society Rex, an ex-pro football star, a partner in a prominent local law firm -- and they all wanted discretion.

 

But FBI agents were listening. Hour after hour, month after month, 10 agents recorded the men's demands, the brothel keepers' deals and the prostitutes' complaints. The agents were listening on Sept. 11, in the days before and in the days after. With 90 calls a day to monitor, the listening post was busy.

 

"Okay, Joe, let's go over this again, she's light-skinned, she's young, she's pretty," a government agent dutifully recorded last April 24. "Joe asks how she's built. Taylor says she's built real nice, but not too chesty. Joe says all right, he'll be there at 3:45."

 

With great care, the agents documented the secret life of a high-end brothel. Through more than 5,000 phone calls, they kept listening to the madams, the hookers and the johns, even though the conversations never turned up mentions of mob bosses or hard-core drug dealing -- both cited in the FBI's initial wiretap application 13 months ago.

 

They heard the madam, Jeanette Maier, telling a subordinate to "blow off" calls from Holiday Inns and Ramadas; working to meet customers' needs ("George wants an appt with a large woman. Jeanette doesn't have one"); drumming up business ("She tells Steve to bring some extra money and see both girls"); and being warned by her mother about a new recruit ("Don't book this little girl, she's going to need some training").

 

The result is an unusual federal prostitution case that has set New Orleans abuzz. Who are the johns in the FBI's 200-plus pages of phone transcripts? And why did the bureau pursue with such energy what is a misdemeanor in state courts, and rarely a federal crime? After an investigation lasting more than a year, 12 alleged prostitutes and madams were indicted in April on conspiracy and racketeering charges; three others, including two men, were accused of helping the operation.

 

Federal statutes applied because the prostitutes flew in and out of New Orleans and were part of a national prostitution ring, according to the local U.S. attorney. Several of the alleged madams indicted live in other cities, including New York and Chicago. Only one man accused of being a client was charged -- he was also accused of assisting the New Orleans madam -- but defense attorneys vow to put plenty of johns on the witness stand if prosecutors go to trial.

 

In a city where turning tricks has been part of the culture since Louis XIV shipped over fallen women to entertain the French colonists, the unveiling of a brothel might have been greeted with a yawn. But this was different. The keen interest of the federal government in prostitutes, in pre- and post-Sept. 11 America, has baffled the local legal community.

 

"The whole thing is an incredible waste of federal resources," said Arthur A. "Buddy" Lemann III, one of the most experienced of the city's criminal defense lawyers. "To make a federal offense out of it is like using an elephant gun to kill a fly."

 

Jonathan Turley, an expert on constitutional criminal procedure at George Washington University, said: "It's extremely unusual for federal prosecutors to pursue a prostitution case. It's particularly curious in an administration that is built on respecting traditional areas of state authority."

 

Turley added that the FBI and federal prosecutors "often covet the crimes that fall to state authorities" because they "are a great deal more interesting than pursuing white-collar criminals and tax evaders."

*************

This just shows that John Ashcroft is more interested in enforcing the Bible than in enforcing the Constitution, which he is sworn to uphold.

[HooBoy]

BON,

 

Your post is Adam Nossiter's opinion as published in the "Washington Post."

 

We can start all kinds of threads here on both sides of the aisle which will make a case for or against Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Bush, et al.

 

If you would like to start a thread of your own which would be relevant to the interests of the people here on your latest passion, fine, but reprinting a "Washington Post" article as FACT is wasting our bandwidth, redundant and probably not acceptable to the folks at the Post.

 

Personally, I would prefer that politics not take over this board. Although, I sometimes wonder how many here have sucked Barney Frank's dick....:-)

 

I do appreciate your participation here and thank you for your efforts.

[BewareofNick]

The reason for posting this was in response to what has happened recently to Stef and Adam. With all the truly bad things going on in the world right now, it seems such a waste for law enforcement of any kind to go after prostitutes, whether it be 12 female hookers in New Orleans or our boys in Las Vegas. Yet we have an attorney genreal who allowed the FBI to continue to investigate these women while the World Trade Center was collapsing. I'd hate to think that the FBI might miss another warning of terrorism jsut because they were too busy going after Stef and Adam. Is that releveant enough?

[ad rian]

Actually, I disagree with Hoo. This is an important post. If there are more stings going on, we should know about. Is it really just Las Vegas? Is it really just escorts? I think it would be good if others would share experiences in other cities. On another thread, I have hinted at my suspicions about the new agency in New York, Hired Help. Does anyone have any other experience? Ashcroft did say he would crack down on this when he was sworn in. We do need to be sure we keep up with what's going on here, and this site could be very useful in doing that.

[HooBoy]

The Washington Post article was copyrighted. A link to it would have been appropriate, a reprint redundant and perhaps in violation of copyright laws, thus my post.

 

Nick tying the event to Ashcroft is his opinion. Nowhere in the article did it say the AG had first-hand knowlege of the sting. Most government agencies are loathe to maintain contact with each other because of ego. The New Orleans thing is probably all tied to the very strange and incestuous New Orleans politics, but then, that is just my 2 cents worth.

 

Louisiana is like a country within a country and New Orleans is like a country within a country within a country.

[bluenix]

A Quick Review

 

http://www.ezshots.com/members/blueman/images/blueman-16.jpg

[Guest bottomboykk]

You're mighty naive if you think Ashcroft wasn't involved. He oversees the FBI and I'm 100% positive his hand was in the cookie jar on this.

 

As gay men who are interested in escorts, we must be very aware of this devil's actions. Whether you want to believe it or not, he wants to do everything he can to wipe out homosexual activity from this country. He is one of the most evil men around.

[BewareofNick]

RE: A Quick Review

 

>http://www.ezshots.com/members/blueman/images/blueman-16.jpg

 

This was the same statue that Ahscroft had covered with blue fabric because he felt it was indecent.

 

Notice too that the two circled items are interchangable

[ad rian]

>Nick tying the event to Ashcroft is his opinion. Nowhere in

>the article did it say the AG had first-hand knowlege of the

>sting. Most government agencies are loathe to maintain

>contact with each other because of ego. The New Orleans

>thing is probably all tied to the very strange and

>incestuous New Orleans politics, but then, that is just my 2

>cents worth.

 

Frankly, I don't care about the article itself. I care about a potential trend given the Las Vegas events reported on another thread. We do know that Ashcroft promised to go after on-line porn etc at his confirmation. I am curious if there are other recent events that we should be looking out for. I would have thought that you had an interest in this subject too.

[Guest newawlens]

I didn't hear about a sting operation in Las Vegas. Where was that reported?

 

When Reno was Attorney General she made a choice to divert resources from the anti-porn unit at DOJ that had been operating under Bill Barr. When Ashcroft came in he made plans to revive that unit. He called in some of the people who had worked in it to get their input. 9/11 put that on hold for a while, but I expect it will be revved up again next year unless there is another attack.

[Losgatan]

Having met on Friday with one of the principals involved in the Las Vegas sting, I can say without a doubt that it was a local operation, handled by the Las Vegas Vice Squad. The feds were not involved.

[alanalt]

>we must be very

>aware of this devil's actions. He is one of the most

>evil men around.

 

Whoa!! That's some pretty loaded language you're tossing around there. I mean there's a certain irony about using that kind of language against Ashcroft, but it doesn't make you look any better either (sorry, but it's true). I mean Stalin, Hitler, Mao, these were 'evil' men who murdered millions of their own people. Compared to them, Ashcroft is not the 'devil', he's an intolerant, semi-competent boob, whose views (while needing an enema) are, unfortunately, still all too prevalent among our fellow citizens.

 

As someone who has worked in government for a politician running a department, I can tell you that Ascroft likely only had the broadest possible knowledge of what was going on. In case you haven't noticed it, the ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top. There is a lot of reluctance in bureaucracies to shift information upward if it means being leaked to the press (especially when we're talking law enforcement and security issues). My guess is that Ashcroft was only told on the day that the arrests were made (in case he met the press) before then, he wasn't in a 'need-to-know' position.

 

Secondly, in reading the article, it appears that the so-called prostitution ring was dealing with straight men (so I'm not sure how this can be interpreted as an 'attack' against gay men, more as an 'attack' against prostitution, which may not be in the Constitution, but is against the law). Personally, I think Hooboy's closer to the mark on this. This reeks of local politics, either someone's trying to make a 'name' for himself, or local officials didn't have the resources and asked the feds for help. Either way, I don't really buy the scenario that John Ashcroft is busy planning 'sting' operations all around the country. Encouraging them, quite possibly/even likely, planning them, no.

 

PS -I don't want anyone to think that I'm by any means a John Ashcroft fan. Got to give him credit for one thing, he sure made Janet Reno look much better in a hurry.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

[Huey]

>

>Louisiana is like a country within a country and New Orleans

>is like a country within a country within a country.

 

I could care less about the political debate. I'm just trying to understand the geography of the situation Kind of reminds me of that song, I'm so Glad, I'm Glad, I'm Glad, I'm Glad :7

 

-----------

WAR IS OVER

if you want it

GIVE PEACE A CHANCE

[Guest bottomboykk]

>Stalin, Hitler, Mao, these were 'evil' men who murdered

>millions of their own people. Compared to them, Ashcroft is

>not the 'devil', he's an intolerant, semi-competent boob,

>whose views (while needing an enema) are, unfortunately,

>still all too prevalent among our fellow citizens.

 

I never compared Asscroft to Stalin and Hitler. There are different levels of evil. Also, I never said he was the devil. There's a difference.

 

 

>I can tell you that Ascroft likely

>only had the broadest possible knowledge of what was going

>on.

 

I don't buy that at all in this case. Asscroft has been doing everything he could to revive this kind of activity. If 9/11 hadn't occurred, we would have seen a lot more of this kind of activity even sooner.

 

>Secondly, in reading the article, it appears that the

>so-called prostitution ring was dealing with straight men

 

It's the beginning of his attack. Everything I've ever read about this man makes me positive he will do everything in his power to make the lives of gay people miserable.

 

I stand by comment. He is an evil man.

[CT Dick]

Redickulous

 

>Notice too that the two circled items are interchangable

 

Silly you! What sculptor is going to put a John Ashcroft on Justice's chest?

 

Dick

[ad rian]

>Having met on Friday with one of the principals involved in

>the Las Vegas sting, I can say without a doubt that it was a

>local operation, handled by the Las Vegas Vice Squad. The

>feds were not involved.

 

Even if the Feds are not (yet!) involved in Las Vegas, I am surprised that few on this Board seem to want to discuss the issue. Here is my admittedly unscientific survey (apologies to DEEJ): New York is safe so far, but I have my doubys about the agency Hiredhelp; D.C., Atlanta, and to a lesser extent Miami, appear to be cities where there does seem to be a cyber-cop interest, at least with respect to female escorts and scams do appear to be run on clients too. When I moved to NYC, a few years ago, I was pleasantly surprised to find the active and for the most part honest rental market because until then I had been ripped off in scams in those other cities. I figure that it would be hard for fake escorts to run scams on clients, if there were not some degree of cyber-based enforcement to make the threat seem real.

[BewareofNick]

RE: Redickulous

 

That's true. An Ashcroft is usally on the other end and a little further south

[Guest seraph250]

>Even if the Feds are not (yet!) involved in Las Vegas, I am

>surprised that few on this Board seem to want to discuss the

>issue.

 

If you are concerned about a revival of prosecutions of people in the porn business, the most pertinent post here is the one from newawlins. I saw the same information he talks about reported on a recent episode of Frontline about the porn industry. People here don't spend a lot of time talking about such issues because they don't want to think about them. Sort of like ostriches.

 

>I figure that it would be hard for fake

>escorts to run scams on clients, if there were not some

>degree of cyber-based enforcement to make the threat seem

>real.

 

I am a little confused about the above. Are you suggesting we should welcome sting operations by the feds because they deter scams by fake escorts? Isn't that a little like treating athlete's foot by setting your foot on fire?

[ad rian]

>>I figure that it would be hard for fake

>>escorts to run scams on clients, if there were not some

>>degree of cyber-based enforcement to make the threat seem

>>real.

>

>I am a little confused about the above. Are you suggesting

>we should welcome sting operations by the feds because they

>deter scams by fake escorts? Isn't that a little like

>treating athlete's foot by setting your foot on fire?

 

No just the opposite. I am saying that the satings actually promote scams by fake escorts.

[Will]

RE: A Quick Review

 

Will you please tell me where I can read more about Mr. Ashcroft and the offending statue? I actually have a scholarly interest in that and would be very, very grateful for a reference!

[Barry]

RE: A Quick Review

 

>Will you please tell me where I can read more about Mr.

>Ashcroft and the offending statue? I actually have a

>scholarly interest in that and would be very, very grateful

>for a reference!

 

Will, Since this is old news much has been archived but here are a few links.

 

http://monkeyfist.com/pipermail/bonobos/Week-of-Mon-20020128/000696.html

 

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/02/01/3c5ac698be309

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1788845.stm

 

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/AshcroftDrape/main.asp

 

http://www.ironic.com/ashcroft.html

 

:-) Barry

[Guest nazguhl]

I’m a lawyer in New Orleans and I work with a number of people in the U.S. atty’s office down here.

 

The New Orleans investigation was started by former prosecutor Eddie Jordan’s investigators, not by Ashcroft. Jordan was appointed by Clinton because he is buddies with Bill Jefferson. Jordan was a corrupt, nasty, overdressed scumbag from the worst tradition of self-serving corrupt Democratic politics. Jordan is also the prosecutor who went after raves and circuit parties under the “crack house” laws. It’s usually local U.S. Attorneys who make decisions to investigate stuff like this, not the Dept. of Justice in D.C.

 

The New Orleans case started because a guy busted for drugs a while back promised to turn over a huge drug ring operating out of a whore house. The feds eventually got an investigation together, but they didn’t find any drugs (except the Madam’s personal stash of pot). The feds, who will never admit to a mistake, decided to make prostitution arrests rather than admit that they were misled about a drug ring and they wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars following up on a bogus lead.

 

I hate Ashcroft, he’s a puritanical jerk, but he’s not to blame for everything bad that happens at the Department of Justice. Clinton’s appointees were often just as bad because they were publicity hounds that went after anything that would make the papers.

 

If anybody hears about a legal defense fund for Stef and Adam, please post the info here. I’d be happy to contribute.

[Guest Chazzz69]

I have lived and worked in DC long enough to know that the last one to usually know what is going on in their cabinet departments are the secretaries appointed by the president. While the AG may have more of a fix on the focus of what is going to be a priority, I can guarantee you he knows little of the details on minor cases. You don't know when these investigations started, there are lots of items in the pipeline from the previous administration.

 

Would anyone care to comment on DEMOCRATIC Senator Joe Biden (Delaware) and his sponsorting of the anti club drug bill known as RAVE? Yes guys a Democrat on a law and order matter that will hold club owners and sponsors of circuit parties libel for the use of Ecstacy and other drugs by patrons of these events. Check out the Washington Blade at http://www.washbalde.com for details.