Cluster of bad experiences

[Michael Vincenzo]

just a little fun to finish this discussion off

 

I disagree with your statement that trust is earned.

 

In most negotiations reasonable people assume they are dealing with an honest person. Sadly, even people you know and trust can disappoint and cheat you.

 

Nonetheless when an escort insists that money be paid in advance, there is an assumed and built in distrust of the client by the escort. This distrust sets the stage for a potentially disappointing experience for many clients.

 

Not all clients feel this way but I do and many out here have expressed their concurrence.

 

An escort is "shooting himself in the foot" by requiring advance payment from a client.

 

If a new client is unwilling to negotiate a reasonable compromise on this issue after reading 77 consistently good reviews spanning over a 10 year period, then it clearly sends the message that they prefer to have more of the upper hand (you already have the ability to write a bad review, short-change the rate, decide not to pay after services rendered, and several other options that I'm not going to offer up as to give anyone ideas). If any potential client of mine insists on the upper hand, and not an arrangement based on mutual respect, consider my foot shot. I will gladly limp away with my integrity intact for someone who is willing to discuss a compromise that is equally agreeable.

 

I stand firm on my belief that trust is earned. We can trust people to stay in their lane as we drive on the road or trust that our lights will turn on when we flip the switch, but to put so much trust in a transaction that involves a stranger, sex, time, and money would be foolish! Even the most reasonable person can become a little primitive in this volatile mix; hell, throw in deviant fantasies, repressed sexuality, religiously induced guilt, and the fact they are cheating on their spouse and who knows what might happen!

 

I received an email tonight from a formerly (foot got shot) potential client, regarding this post and the statement I made about trust. This very polite person made a direct reference that my statements about trust made me very unAmerican and more like a European. Oh sweet Jesus! I've evolved!

 

It's time for me to bow out of this conversation and hope that someone is looking for an escort with a gimp foot.

[Guest novabear22031]

It's time for me to bow out of this conversation and hope that someone is looking for an escort with a gimp foot.

 

Don't bow out...

 

Many others of us do feel is trust in built. All but one of my encounters there was trust built. Built we agreed upon the rules in the end...

[Guest zipperzone]

Me too.

 

It's roughly like escorts not taking blocked phone calls;

you get burned enough times and you make a rule.

 

Almost all the escorts I've hired who asked for $$ up front were disappointing.

 

I think to be asked for money up front is downright insulting.

 

If you were in a fancy restaurant and the waiter totalled up the amount of your dinner and presented you with the bill, insisting on payment before you were served - what would you do?

 

If you hailed a taxi and gave him the address you wanted to go to, and he demanded his estimate of what the fare would be paid upfront before he left the curb - what would you do?

 

I know what I'd do, and you'd probably do the same too.

[Guest zipperzone]

Thanks for the interesting story, buckguy. It's for another thread completely, but I wonder whether any escorts here are uncomfortable with the money exchange. Over time, I've met with guys who are not professional escorts, but who take on one or maybe two regular clients because they need to supplement their day-job's income, and I've found that they are sometimes more uncomfortable about the money than I am. When I start to see one of these "semi-pros" regularly, I tend to pay him by dropping by his bank and depositing the fee in his account a day or two before we meet. That way it's convenient for both of us, I don't have to carry a lot of cash with me and there's no face-to-face exchange of money at all.

 

I think it is sheer insanity to give ANYONE your banking information. I would never do that for a whole bunch of reasons.

 

I don't see how it's convenient either. Unless you live in close proximity to his bank, how can it be convenient to make a special trip to deposit the funds.

 

From an escort's point of view, unless he is connected to Internet banking and can check on his computer - and not everyone has this facility - how is he supposed to know the money is in his account and how much was deposited?

 

And what's the big problem with "having to carry a lot of cash"? Do you frequent neighborhoods where you are liable to get mugged?

 

All in all, this has to be the dumbest suggestion I've heard yet.

 

If either party is sensitive about a face to face exchange of money, you could simply leave it folded on his dresser before you leave.

[JoeyBryant]

I think to be asked for money up front is downright insulting.

 

If you were in a fancy restaurant and the waiter totalled up the amount of your dinner and presented you with the bill, insisting on payment before you were served - what would you do?

 

If you hailed a taxi and gave him the address you wanted to go to, and he demanded his estimate of what the fare would be paid upfront before he left the curb - what would you do?

 

I know what I'd do, and you'd probably do the same too.

 

Bull-fucking-shit. And I'm going to tell you why...

 

Waiters know you may want to order additonal items/dessert/drinks. Of course they going to charge after the fact.

 

Taxis? Well its based on distance and traffic. It varies. Besides, I think escorts would be nicer to runners than taxi drivers. They pull knives, guns, or drive off with luggage

 

Its not insulting to be asked for money upfront. Dont movie theaters do it? Who knows if I'll like the movie. What about theme parks? What about airlines? Why do we have to be an exception?

[GoodFella69]

Well said!

 

I think to be asked for money up front is downright insulting.

 

If you were in a fancy restaurant and the waiter totalled up the amount of your dinner and presented you with the bill, insisting on payment before you were served - what would you do?

 

If you hailed a taxi and gave him the address you wanted to go to, and he demanded his estimate of what the fare would be paid upfront before he left the curb - what would you do?

 

I know what I'd do, and you'd probably do the same too.

 

Zipperzone: Well said. I couldn't agree with you more. Placing (or fanning out) the money in plain sight for the escort to see upon arrival has always been sufficient for the many escorts I've hired. I could never justify paying an escort in advance of services being rendered--especially an escort I have never met before.

[Guest mvan1]

Bull-fucking-shit. And I'm going to tell you why...

 

Waiters know you may want to order additonal items/dessert/drinks. Of course they going to charge after the fact.

 

Taxis? Well its based on distance and traffic. It varies. Besides, I think escorts would be nicer to runners than taxi drivers. They pull knives, guns, or drive off with luggage

 

Its not insulting to be asked for money upfront. Dont movie theaters do it? Who knows if I'll like the movie. What about theme parks? What about airlines? Why do we have to be an exception?

 

Your comparisons are not quite on the mark.

 

The situation boils down to the fact that reasonable people disagree.

 

Here we have a situation where the client feels uncomfortable being mistrusted and we have a situation where an escort fears potentially being cheated by the client. No amount of discussion can change the feelings of either party.

 

For clients who do not mind paying in advance, the situation is not a problem. For clients who dislike being mistrusted and who do not want to pay in advance, the escort will loose the sale.

[Guest mvan1]

I think to be asked for money up front is downright insulting.

 

If you were in a fancy restaurant and the waiter totalled up the amount of your dinner and presented you with the bill, insisting on payment before you were served - what would you do?

 

If you hailed a taxi and gave him the address you wanted to go to, and he demanded his estimate of what the fare would be paid upfront before he left the curb - what would you do?

 

I know what I'd do, and you'd probably do the same too.

 

Good points, Zipperzone

[justaguy]

"The service I strive to provide is way too personal."

 

For me, you just isolated one of the major reasons this is such a hot topic. Because it's personal, for both escort and client, bad experiences take on emotional overtones that they probably wouldn't have otherwise.

[jackcali]

Hey, zipperzone, what crawled up your ass and died? I think I said that I am right near every bank and dropping the money off is as convenient as walking over to my ATM (which, by the way, takes two minutes). And the "banking information" you're so concerned about protecting is on the face of every check you write, so think about that the next time you pay a bill. Lastly, as it's the 21st Century, pretty much EVERYONE is connected to internet banking, either through access to ATMs or by looking online. Checking one's balance or recent transactions is extraordinarily easy.

 

If this is the dumbest idea you've ever heard, zipperzone, you really should get out more. There are plenty more dumb ideas out there, though most of us call them progress.

[Guest zipperzone]

Hey, zipperzone, what crawled up your ass and died? I think I said that I am right near every bank and dropping the money off is as convenient as walking over to my ATM (which, by the way, takes two minutes). And the "banking information" you're so concerned about protecting is on the face of every check you write, so think about that the next time you pay a bill. Lastly, as it's the 21st Century, pretty much EVERYONE is connected to internet banking, either through access to ATMs or by looking online. Checking one's balance or recent transactions is extraordinarily easy.

 

If this is the dumbest idea you've ever heard, zipperzone, you really should get out more. There are plenty more dumb ideas out there, though most of us call them progress.

 

Oh deary me - I think I just pissed jackcali off by not agreeing with his Lordship's take on things. Help me please - I need someone to assist me in retrieving whatever has crawled up my ass and died. (jackcali has the nicest, most polite way of expressing himself).

 

And seeing as you are so well connected to the 21st Century, why are you not simply transferring the $$ to his bank account electronically from your computer? Or is it because you get a charge of trotting around Manhattan clutching a fistful of dollar bills trying to convince yourself you're participating in an important financial transaction?

[Guest zipperzone]

Bull-fucking-shit. And I'm going to tell you why...

 

Waiters know you may want to order additonal items/dessert/drinks. Of course they going to charge after the fact.

 

Taxis? Well its based on distance and traffic. It varies. Besides, I think escorts would be nicer to runners than taxi drivers. They pull knives, guns, or drive off with luggage

 

Its not insulting to be asked for money upfront. Dont movie theaters do it? Who knows if I'll like the movie. What about theme parks? What about airlines? Why do we have to be an exception?

 

Well Bull-fucking-shit to you too.

 

I'm sure even someone with limited intelligence gets the comparison I'm making. But just because it doesn't mesh with his convoluted idea of how payment should be made it's labeled as "Bull-fucking-shit"

 

If the shoe fits...........

[jeepman]

Bad Experiences

 

I think it sucks, and not in a good way, when a client stiffs and escort and when an escort stiffs a client. I don't buy reasons like the downturn in the economy, bla, bla, bla, for a client not to show up or for an escort not to show up or cancel on a client at the last minute because he has a better offer.

I can see that a client may get the last minute jitters when meeting someone for the first time but suck it up guys, take a deep breath and live up to your commitment. Yes, there are situations when either the client or the escort has to cancel at the last minute, like waking up with a cold or the flu or missing a plane, but those occasions should be rare. In the situation which Michael described, I doubt very much that all of his no shows were as the result of a good or real excuse and I think those guys were just fucking with you, and not in a good way. Did you ever consider that someone may have felt that you were invading their home territory and decided to set you up?

I guess I am not generally a fan of the "pay up front" approach especially when meeting someone for the first time but I can see both sides of the coin. I make sure that the "envelope" is in plain view and if the escort chooses to count it in front of me upon his arrival, I don't think I would be offended as long as he did it in a classy manner and then lived up to his expectations. I would hope that the vast majority of escorts who are well reviewed will not make the encounter any less satisfying if they have the money up front; the have a reputation to live up to. And as far as clients short-changing someone, there are not too many excuses for that in my book; count and recount and if you can't count, get a calculator. So Michael, my suggestion is to do what works best for you. If requiring payment up front turns away some potential clients, then so be it. You have enough good reviews here so I would suspect that you would not make the experience any less memorable that it would be had you been paid at then end of the session.

[jackcali]

I'm very sorry that my way of expressing myself has so offended your delicate sensibilities, z, though as I recall my initial post merely described a method of payment that I found convenient and suitable, and you felt the need to jump in and call it the dumbest idea you ever heard. A simple "I wouldn't do that" would have been sufficient to express your disagreement, but for whatever reason you felt the need to make it personal.

 

However, since I would hate for you to miss my message because of the style of delivery, let me try to express myself differently: What is causing you so much mental anguish that you need constantly to lash out at so many of us who post on this forum? Wouldn't it be better from a mental health perspective for you to address the source of this anguish rather than to keep reading this forum when so many posts on it cause you so much psychological distress? There, is that better?

 

And, by the way, I do love trotting around Manhattan. It's why I live here and can't imagine living anywhere else. From what I see, most everybody else who lives or visits here loves it, too.

[Guest zipperzone]

 

What is causing you so much mental anguish that you need constantly to lash out at so many of us who post on this forum? Wouldn't it be better from a mental health perspective for you to address the source of this anguish rather than to keep reading this forum when so many posts on it cause you so much psychological distress?

 

Trust me on this honey, I have no mental anguish. None at all. And as for psychological distress - ain't got that either.

 

As for "constantly lashing out", I guess I don't see it that way. There are one or two posters who do get me going - they just beg for it. But if you find me so objectionable may I suggest you put me on your ignore list as I'm sure others have done in the past. That way it will save you the mental anguish and psychological distress of reading my posts.

 

Oh yeah - one more thing. Could you please send me the name & address of your bank as well as your account number? I'd like to make a little contribution.

[jackcali]

Oh yeah - one more thing. Could you please send me the name & address of your bank as well as your account number? I'd like to make a little contribution.

 

I think I said something in my first post about having to establish trust as a first step. As far as you and I are concerned, it's cash only.

[Guest zipperzone]

 

I think I said something in my first post about having to establish trust as a first step. As far as you and I are concerned, it's cash only.

 

What kind of trust have you established at the food bank?

[instudiocity]

Hmmm, after reading through this today, I've drawn some conclusions....

 

1. Just like the differences between fast-food and fine dining, paying up front cheapens the experience for me. Now should an escort charge McDonald's like prices, I'd happily pay up front while expecting a fast-food like rushed experience. But I tend to desire a more 'premium' experience, so I'd kindly like the option to pay after the session and possibly add a gratuity for a wonderful experience.

 

2. I prefer a quality experience of a quantity experience. If my escort is going to be performing more than once in a day, and I know about it, it's a big turnoff. A proper experience should not involved clock watching. If the escort needs to time his 'rounds' so that he can maximize profits, I'd rather not be hooked up to that milking machine.

 

3. I always pay with cash. I don't want an obvious trail of my dalliances to appear in my financial transactions. I maintian a separate email account as well. The only obvious records are in my cash withdrawals from the bank, and my telephone bill. But there is no direct link to my 'illegal' activity. Let's face it, the IRS says if we give someone more than $600 per year, we should be filing a 1099 for the annual total. Also, the actual behavior, no matter how it's cloaked in "Fee for Time Only" disclaimers is still illegal.

 

4. Some people, when frustrated by their inability to communicate effectively, drop into the mud of baseness with name calling and profanity. Get over it. Why are you offended by the pixels on a computer monitor. Who are you defending yourself against - some unknown person of questionable intelligence and reasoning?

[daviddd49]

I have seen quite a few Escorts over the past few years and, thankfully, haven't been scammed by any of them. I have had a couple of Escorts no-show on me, but all I was out in each case was my expectation of a good time. One or two have been drama-nuts. But, for the most part, those escorts I've seen have been wonderful people. A very few I see repeatedly.

 

With each first-time encounter I have always put their fee out on a counter, coffee-table or dresser, visible and fanned so that one can count the bills by eye. I don't refer to it but I make sure they've seen it. In every case the Escort hasn't touched it and, in a few cases, I have had to pick it up and hand it to them when we were finished.

 

With those escorts I see on a regular basis, I always put their fee in an envelope and either leave it in plain view or hand it to them when they arrive -- it depends upon the escort and their wish.

 

Recently, I saw an escort who requested the money up-front. His reviews were stellar, so I "took the chance" and handed him an envelope with the his fee in it soon after he arrived in my room (after saying hello, etc.). He took the envelope, smiled, thanked me, and put it back down (unopened) on the counter, where he left it until we were finished. I was a bit surprised by that, given his published request, but put it out of my mind because there were better things to do. He's one I'll see again.

[Guest mvan1]

well said

 

Hmmm, after reading through this today, I've drawn some conclusions....

 

1. Just like the differences between fast-food and fine dining, paying up front cheapens the experience for me. Now should an escort charge McDonald's like prices, I'd happily pay up front while expecting a fast-food like rushed experience. But I tend to desire a more 'premium' experience, so I'd kindly like the option to pay after the session and possibly add a gratuity for a wonderful experience.

 

2. I prefer a quality experience of a quantity experience. If my escort is going to be performing more than once in a day, and I know about it, it's a big turnoff. A proper experience should not involved clock watching. If the escort needs to time his 'rounds' so that he can maximize profits, I'd rather not be hooked up to that milking machine.

 

3. I always pay with cash. I don't want an obvious trail of my dalliances to appear in my financial transactions. I maintian a separate email account as well. The only obvious records are in my cash withdrawals from the bank, and my telephone bill. But there is no direct link to my 'illegal' activity. Let's face it, the IRS says if we give someone more than $600 per year, we should be filing a 1099 for the annual total. Also, the actual behavior, no matter how it's cloaked in "Fee for Time Only" disclaimers is still illegal.

 

4. Some people, when frustrated by their inability to communicate effectively, drop into the mud of baseness with name calling and profanity. Get over it. Why are you offended by the pixels on a computer monitor. Who are you defending yourself against - some unknown person of questionable intelligence and reasoning?

 

 

I never thought about the $600.00 limit for reporting.

 

Great comparisons and well said, Studio City!

[Guest mvan1]

 

3. I always pay with cash. I don't want an obvious trail of my dalliances to appear in my financial transactions. I maintian a separate email account as well. The only obvious records are in my cash withdrawals from the bank, and my telephone bill. But there is no direct link to my 'illegal' activity. Let's face it, the IRS says if we give someone more than $600 per year, we should be filing a 1099 for the annual total. Also, the actual behavior, no matter how it's cloaked in "Fee for Time Only" disclaimers is still illegal.

 

 

Hey, Instudiocity,

 

You are correct. After reading your post I checked out the Form 1099 requirements and came up with this:

 

 

"Definition: When working as a freelancer or independent contractor, clients are required to provide you with a 1099 form at the end of the calendar year. The form is required when total compensation exceeds $600 during each tax year. A copy of the form is submitted to the IRS to help track miscellaneous income. Although there are variations of the 1099 to show interest and other types of payments, Form 1099-MISC is used to report payments to independent contractors."

 

Damn, according to the instructions that go along with the form, I am supposed to get an escorts full name, address and social security number if I pay them at least $600.00 in a year. The form I give to the escort must also contain my name, address and social security number. There is no way in hell I will give an escort this information and I think an escort would refuse to give me his personal information too.

 

I have paid many escorts a lot more than $600.00 and did not know about this dumb form.

 

In the future I will limit my payments to no more than $599.99 each.

 

According to the information connected to the form, I can be fined for failure to furnish an escort and the IRS with a copy of the form. Ugh!

[KMEM]

I believe there are probably some CPA's here or other tax experts, so I will gladly defer to their opinions when and if they weigh in. I think the $600 is a total per year, so paying no more than 599.99 per experience will not do any good IF the total exceeds 600 per annum.

 

Also, the last time I knew, one could donate 10,000 per year to anyone they chose to. This does need to be reported on the donor's tax return as part of their total life time gifts. I am not necessarily recommending this, just mentioning it.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Scorpio]

You are correct. After reading your post I checked out the Form 1099 requirements and came up with this:

 

 

 

Wrong! Clients are not required to issue 1099s to escorts. Clients are not in the "trade or business" of hiring escorts:

 

Trade or business reporting only. Report on Form 1099-MISC only when payments are made in the course of your trade or business. Personal payments are not reportable. You are engaged in a trade or business if you operate for gain or profit......

[Scorpio]

Also, the last time I knew, one could donate 10,000 per year to anyone they chose to. This does need to be reported on the donor's tax return as part of their total life time gifts. I am not necessarily recommending this, just mentioning it.

 

 

Under current law, an individual an gift $13,000 per individual/per year without affecting his lifetime exclusion. Gifts are not taxable to the recipient. The client could claim the payments were gifts, as it wouldn't affect the client one or the other. However, gifts are gratutious transfers. The IRS would most likely recharacterize these payments as compensation and win. Making the "gift" taxable income to the escort.

[josephga]

while on this topic I was wondering if their is a cpa or tax expert around? Have a question I need to ask.