Serious question about escorts and drugs

[Guest cmax]

I hired an escort who has recently received his first review here. He was prompt in replying to my inital E-mail, pleasant and chatty on the phone, and arrived exactly on time. He is gorgeous young man (20), handsome, perfect skin, perfect smile. He gave me a warm hug and deep kiss. He asked for the restroom, where he spent a few minutes....

 

So what's wrong with all this you'll be asking?

 

Well, he was clearly on some drug and the nasal wipes might give a clue. He was a little aggitated, but nothing too drastic. I chatted for a while and found that he was a really sweet kid. When I asked him about Thanksgiving he said he might go home (around 30 miles away), but wasn't sure.

 

I decided that I could not continue with the appointment (he would have done so), paid him the full amount, told him it was a present and gave him a hug. He hugged me back for a long time, probably for 10 minutes, before leaving.

 

My question is what could/should I do (if anything) to help this escort if he has a drug habit? My feeling is I should do something.

[Will]

My God, we're moving directly into the holidays, aren't we? This story makes me think of movies with Bing Crosby and Edmund Gwinn. More than anything else, it reminds me that many, many "clients" on this board are kind, decent, caring, sensitive, and intelligent men. I'll take that reality over "Yes, Virginia" any day of the week.

 

As you played it, moment by moment, I don't see how you could have been more sensitive or more responsive. That kid can only have felt your care and support. Clearly, he couldn't have felt exploited or even treated in a professional, though civilized, manner. You gave him the one thing you had, which was your concern. In retrospect, you might have told him up front why you were terminating the appointment. That wouldn't have made him stop using his nose for anything other than breathing, but it might have opened a space in which he could talk about something that, clearly, he has to keep secret.

 

You've made my day and I will go through it remembering that there are lots of men just like you out there.

 

Thanks.

[Guest TruthTeller]

>So what's wrong with all this you'll be asking?

 

What's wrong is that you're a hysterical busybody who seeks to impose your own irrational fears and preferences on other people, probably as a means of escaping the problems in your own life.

 

You think that because you see someone doing drugs on one ocassion, that makes them a hopeless drug addict spiralling out of control? If you see someone having a glass of wine at dinner, do you think they're an alcoholic and start intervening in their life? If you see someone eating junk food, do you intervene and start trying re-arrange their diet?

 

The vast majority of recreational drug users choose, as adults, to engage in those activities without any adverse impact on their lives. That's at least as true for drugs as it is for the use of alcohol.

 

Unless an adult expresses dissatisfaction with their life and/or asks you for help, you should mind your own business. I know that's not as fun or dramatic or self-glorifying as saving someone who doesn't want your saving, but that's a depravation I think you should impose on yourself.

[+ Lucky]

I knew Truth Teller (sic) couldn't resist this one!

[Guest Kenny]

"I know that's not as fun or dramatic or self-glorifying as saving someone who doesn't want your saving, but that's a depravation I think you should impose on yourself."

 

WOW....I guess he missed the correct time for his next fix.

[Guest Stephan-Lacoste]

I knew it too lol

good Morning TT:P

[Traveller]

I'm going to have to go with T2 on this one, especially as (1) I'm a self-proclaimed functioning Cobain/Joplin and (2) he's really jonsing for some huge Latin cock that I've had a couple of times.

 

Later.

[Guest bmore guy]

If someone comes into my house and immediately does drugs without consulting me, I assume he has a drug problem. He certainly has a problem with me.

 

I do agree with TT that you cannot "save" anyone, particularly if you have never met them before.

 

I am currently helping an escort who is going through rehab. I had been a regular for some time and knew him fairly well. The big question you have to ask is if he is sincere in wanting to quit because getting clean is entirely up to him.

 

Second, make sure you accept the risk that no matter how hard he tries he might not be able to stay clean.

[Guest cp8036]

Some valid points above, ones that go both ways. I have to agree that one should help him only if he asked for it. Asking may not be crystal clear (no pun intended), but can be veiled in some manner.

 

Since you don't know the guy well, you don't know the extent of his usage. It could be recreational, or could be out of control. Maybe he only gets high when he meets a client.

 

Help should be offered if you knew him better, but I would hold back given the breif time you know him, and the commercial relationship you have with him.

 

Perhaps doing sexwork is what drives him to use drugs. A bump in the bathroom may enchance his work or his enjoyment of escort sex. BUT, I do not mean to imply anyone doing this work will do drugs, just that there is the potential for someone.

[phage]

I’m going to have to agree with the bad boys. You leaped right from “clearly on some drug” to “help this escort if he has a drug habit.” (I do notice you use “if” so you are leaving some room for an over reaction.)

 

As stated, many men are able to keep recreational drugs in proper perspective without impacting their lives. Most everyone I know uses drugs to some extent when they are in party mode, and other than isolated incidents of someone getting too messed up on a given night, they are hardly ruining their lives. There is probably a physical price being paid, but having fun while you’re alive is just as important as living many, many years.

 

This guy sounds like he had his act together. That and having perfect skin (I’ve never seen a crystal freak with a good complexion.) seem to indicate that he had things under control. He may have just been doing a bump to help ensure you had a good time. Crystal is considered a sex drug and it can be a LOT of fun to fool around when you’re a little tweaked. I can’t see much difference between a bump and a hit of Viagra.

[Guest starfucker]

<<I decided that I could not continue with the appointment (he would have done so), paid him the full

amount, told him it was a present and gave him a hug. He hugged me back for a long time, probably for

10 minutes, before leaving.

 

My question is what could/should I do (if anything) to help this escort if he has a drug habit? My feeling is

I should do something.>>

 

You should have indicated the reason you terminated the appointment and NOT paid the full amount. If the escort knew his drug use was costing him $ he might wise up. Sending him off with a big hug and the full payment enables him to buy more drugs and line up more appointments for the day ... and those clients may not be so "caring".

[Guest Traveler]

>

>Perhaps doing sexwork is what drives him to use drugs. A

>bump in the bathroom may enchance his work or his enjoyment

>of escort sex. BUT, I do not mean to imply anyone doing

>this work will do drugs, just that there is the potential

>for someone.

 

Actually, it's probably the other way around: drugs are driving him to do sexwork, since it's quick easy money, and you don't have to worry about a boss, etc. Also, cocaine makes erections more difficult, not the other way around. People who do cocaine long-term can lose their ability to get erections permanently.

Getting back to the original poster's question, however, I have the following thoughts on drug users:

(1) The probability of quitting when motivated is pretty low, around 10-15% per attempt.

(2) The probability of quitting when not motivated is absolutely zero.

(3) Your personal feelings about drug use will never be a motivation for quitting for any drug user, even if you're in a close relationship or related by blood (which I'm guessing you weren't).

(4) I'm not criticizing the original poster, but paying the full amount/hugging the guy is simply enabling behavior. It's certainly not motiviation to quit.

 

The only motivation I can think of, off hand, which you might be able to give him in your brief encounter might be informational. For example, you might say "Did you know that coke or crank/meth use will cause you to lose your ability to have erections in time?" Not that this one statement will make him turn around, but it might be added to his file if he comes across another adverse consequence to drug use.

[Guest cp8036]

Is a good point about paying full fare for just meeting.

 

If all clients he met objected to drug use, and turned him away, he would have to consider the effect. No money, no drugs.

[Guest TruthTeller]

>WOW....I guess he missed the correct time for his next fix.

 

Your valuable contribution to the dialogue is greatly appreciated. Anyone who thinks there's nothing wrong with recreational drug use must be a drug addict, just like anyone who thinks there's nothing wrong with homosexuality must be gay.

 

Are you really as stupid as you appear?

[Guest cmax]

I'd like to thank everyone (yes, even TT) for helpful comments and suggestions. I plan to hire the escort again, and will report back.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Cmax, I embrace you as a kind caring guy... and I know that your motive is the best. From your description though I cannot be sure that this individual was on drugs and if he was partaking, I'm not sure it qualifies as drug abuse as others have alluded to.

 

"Well, he was clearly on some drug and the nasal wipes might give a clue."

 

I know that there are medications and over the counter food supplements that cause the same symptoms in me as you describe -- though I doubt it likely that the escort is on supplements .

 

"I hired an escort who has recently received his first review here. He was prompt in replying to my initial E-mail, pleasant and chatty on the phone, and arrived exactly on time. He is gorgeous young man (20), handsome, perfect skin, perfect smile. He gave me a warm hug and deep kiss. He asked for the restroom, where he spent a few minutes...."

 

This really doesn't sound like an habitual drug abuser to me... he has his act together too much to fit my image of the typical abuser. I suspect it is likely he is an occasional user and it is possible he was using that night -- we don't really know. I have to agree with TT, Traveller and Phage that occasional recreational use does not qualify, in my mind, as habitual drug abuse. I apply the same standard to drug use as I do alcohol use with regard to what is abuse. I think many do not apply the same standard, but have a zero tolerance concept for drug abuse.

 

As for your reaction, I have no problem with you sending him home the way you did -- it was your call to make and you were definitely uncomfortable with the situation as you estimated it. I probably would have tried to engage him in a discussion of occasional drug use and going over the edge into drug abuse, and ascertain which drugs were his preference. This would enable me to make some informed estimate if his drug use situation, my comfort with it, and how I should proceed from that point.

 

It's amazing how much clearer things are on Monday mornings, with me anyway.

 

:-)

[Traveller]

>I'd like to thank everyone (yes, even TT) for helpful

>comments and suggestions. I plan to hire the escort again,

>and will report back.

 

First, real sweet kid and no mood swings. Must be drug-addled.

 

Next, hugged for about 10 minutes - oh yeah, that would happen with someone on drugs. Dude, we haven't been able to get ludes forever.

 

Three, very important, as Phage said, good complexion. Very tough when you're abusing drugs.

 

Four, deep kiss. Did you smell anything Einstein. If you're partying, you're usually drinking.

 

Finally, some nasal drip. Unless you tell me you live in Honalulu, it's fucking November out there.

 

Now Flo, I know that starting the Red Cross was an impressive accomplishment, but do you think you're ready to jump into Father Flanagan's shoes.

 

Maybe you should noodle on this over Thanksgiving dinner. I suggest you let the tryptophan do its thing.

 

Later.

[Guest cmax]

>I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to compliment

>you for so expressly retracting and repudiating your

>original opinion upon further reflection. An ability to do

>that is an admirable and uncommon attribute.

 

 

Truthteller, I've learnt a lot from you (and others) on this thread. Pardon my echolalia, but this I say to you: "I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to compliment you".

 

My only problem is dealing with the likely scenario you post on my aesthetic look, and damn, the gym is closed tomorrow while I acquire more stuffing.

[Guest regulation]

What should you do? Nothing.

 

Your suspicion that the escort is an habitual user seems well founded. Someone who would fix in the home of a stranger he had just met a few minutes earlier is probably a major addict. People who have their drug use under control are usually a bit more discreet about it.

 

I think someone already pointed out that there is nothing you can do to get an addict to clean up. That would be true even if you were his closest friend, and in fact you're just some john he hardly knows. It's a decision he has to make for himself, and it probably won't be made until he reaches the point at which his addiction is making it impossible for him to work. If you want to speed up that process, stop hiring him.

 

Whatever you do, don't try to use your concern for his addiction as an entree into his personal life. Neither your concern nor the money you pay him for sex entitles you to do that.

[+ Lucky]

This may be the first time I agree with an ENTIRE post by Mr. Regulation, but he did say it well, IMHO!;-)

[Guest dstud4hire]

This is certainly an interesting, and risky topic, in the fact that it discusses a potential problem that isn't talked about enough.

 

I perhaps agree with starfucker the most, (tho there are bits and pieces of everyone's comments that I agree with) The reason I agree with SF? Because he is right...while the client certainly is very concerned (and I think he shouldn't be judged too harshly.... in today's world, I think we can use a little bit more caring for others) However, having known a few people to have gone thru recovery programs, I know the worse thing the client could have done is too enable such a potential problem as to not tell him why you discontinued the appt. A simple question or two to see whether he indeed was using a drug would have sufficed. Keep in mind, there was also a very good chance that he wasn't, so the escort certainly has the right to say how he feels about you question.

 

And if the client felt he was using a drug, and most certainly, if the escort was honest and said "yes", he also has every right as a client to discontinue the appt. Why? Well, in talking with my own clients, some are turned off if they perceive that I have to use another substance to have fun. (i.e. poppers, though a very minor substance. I ALWAYS ask if the client minds if I use them. Some feel that if I use that substance, I am not totally getting into them.....I may not agree with their assertion, but I respect that nonetheless.)

 

I mean, let's be honest with ourselves....while I love escorting, and know that I do it well, let's face it, we are selling an image...a fantasy...a look...a body...and companionship...it's all part of the package, and many of us want to ensure that the package looks as good as possible and that we are as into this as much as we can, in order to have a happy client. Sometimes that may mean an extra substance. With myself, I am happy that the only extra substance I need is the poppers.

 

The flip side of all this? Some who do what we do as escorts may also have problems with drugs. In fact, I am going to guess it perhaps is a problem from the various stories I have heard from my clients. Maybe not any escort here on this thread. If they use it recreationally, and have control over the fun they may have...great! However, for those who have a problem, we can't doubt that there are those who are escorts who may have a need for help. The unfortunate part is..(and this goes out to the original question from that caring client) you can't help someone who doesn't want or need it. If a problem exists, generally a person has to reach rock bottom before reaching out for help.

 

Hmm, just thought that a side thread to this msg might be the topic of drugs, sex, and self esteem associated with the whole client/escort arena. Ahh, but now I digress...as an 'ex' once said....i think too much.....

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth on what was obviously a well meaning , though enabling, client. Gabe in St. Louis

[Guest TruthTeller]

>Your suspicion that the escort is an habitual user seems

>well founded. Someone who would fix in the home of a

>stranger he had just met a few minutes earlier is probably a

>major addict. People who have their drug use under control

>are usually a bit more discreet about it.

 

The idea that there's evidence that the escort was using drugs at all is precarious at best. But the idea that there's evidence he's a full-fledged drug addict is just absurd. Such a belief grows out of an irrational, Nancy Reagan-esque view of drugs as The Ultimate, Unqualified, Unspeakable Evil, rather than any informed assessment.

 

When someone is using, say, methamphetimines, the high obtained from it requires continuous use. If the escort travelled to the client's house, he likely was unable to use it in transit, and knew he would be unlikely to have an opportunity to use it once he began sexually interacting with the client. Going into the client's bathroom to give him his fill for the session before beginning was therefore necessary and rational, and hardly the sign of some out of control addict.

 

More importantly, as has been pointed out, many escorts use a variety of drugs to make themselves more sexually amenable to their oft-asthetically displeasing clients. If he showed up, and saw some fat ugly pig, he may have known that the only way he could be sufficiently aroused to do the job was to shove a few bumps up his nose before beginning -- much the way some people take a few swigs of whiskey before having some difficult conversation. Neither behavior evinces an addiction.

 

As has also been pointed out, multiple other signs regarding the escort's behavior and apperance are inconsistent with his being a drug addict, as opposed to a drug user. I think the real issue is that, as TY pointed out, many people fail to recognize the distinction between drug addict and perfectly functional and healthy drug user.

 

Based on this client's observation that the escort came out of the bathroom and sniffled a few times, multiple people have histrionically labelled him a drug addict and debated how best to save this poor soul from imminent destruction. To describe these reactions is to define the term hysteria.

[Will]

Now that I've read all the other responses to this thread, I must admit that I don't know what I was thinking about when I fired off that post early yesterday morning. I know that I can't take it back. But I can recant, and that's what I'm doing here.

 

Among all of you, I want to single out Truth Teller, Regulation, and dstud4hire as having brought me fully to my senses. I do know better, and thus I want to disassociate myself from the wussy Pollyanna who was swept away by memories of Bing Crosby movies.

 

First: There seems to be no empirical evidence that this young man is a drug addict. Being a drug user and a drug addict are two different things, exactly as being a social drinker and an alcoholic are two different things.

 

Second: Just as a guest in my house does not have the right to light a joint or take out a flask and have a drink without asking me first, neither does a guest have the right to duck into the bathroom to do a little something without asking me first. This is all the more so when the "guest" is someone I am paying for his professional services.

 

Third: Whatever I decide to do about mentioning my suspicions to my guest -- paid or otherwise -- I do not need to convey my tacit approval of the behavior.

 

Fourth: If, indeed, the young man in question is an addict, there is almost certainly NOTHING I could have done or said to interrupt his addiction.

 

Fifth: Even so, I could have made his addiction more comfortable to him by: (a) not mentioning it; (b) not mentioning it and then holding him -- for ten (!) minutes -- which implies both support and approval; and © not mentioning it, holding him for ten minutes, and then paying him for having done absolutely nothing. It's the easiest fix he ever earned, that's for sure.

 

There are two bottom lines:

 

A. No client is required to tolerate rude, anti-social, or deviant behavior in an escort; how he expresses his displeasure and what he does about it is his business.

 

B. If this young man was not just bad-mannered but addicted, the absolutely worst thing you could have done was what you did. It's called "enabling," and it is the one source of energy that will feed any addiction at all.

 

I was wrong, and I am grateful to the rest of you for making me see that.

[Guest dstud4hire]

Wow, what a transition or change in response from the 1st.

 

My addition: never think of what you express as being wrong, just simply put...you are willing to grow and to learn and admit when you can approach something from a different light.

 

And what you look at as a polyanna response (ok, it was, ) is still not a bad quality to have. Actually, I used to have that, but not so much with this aspect of my life.....

 

(You mean I can't be Julia Roberts, and get wisked away at the end by Richard Gere rolling down the street in a limo, climbing up a fire escape to sing his undying love for me???!!!!)

 

In all seriousness, great responses everyone...this has been an interesting thread!

 

Gabe in St. Louis

[Guest bmore guy]

I do know people who use drugs as recreational users. They use occasinally and genrally with a group of freinds. Your example of meth does not fit the bill, for, to qoute you "it requires continuous use". If you cannot go without a fix for a couple hours , you are an addict.

 

As for your point about needing a bump or a couple swigs of whiskey, I would say that these are warning signs. A person who needs drugs to function, needs to carefully monitor his drug use before it becomes a serious problem.

 

However, in this context, the whole recreational drug use thread is irrelavant. What matters is a person's comfort level with drug use. The question of escorts and drugs is quite simply my house, my time, my dime, my rules. If a person is uncomfortable with drugs then he should not allow an escort to use during their session.

 

My particular rule is that you don't use drugs when you are with me. If they take my money afterwards and run straight to the corner thats their business.