Chaos and the Raid

[TotallyOz]

I was with my companion last night after a nice dinner and movie with friends, we decided to go over to Chaos. The bar is one of my favorites here. I like the energy there as well as the boys that work and the music. As we sat down and were toasting, my boy tells me we need to leave and points to the policemen at the door. I pay our bill and walk out with him. I was lucky he was not stopped at the door but they knew he and I were together and it was ok to leave with me.

 

Every other Thai boy in the place was carded. All customers were cleared out. All boys were sat on the stage and asked for proof of age and citizenship. Anyone without and ID car was taken to the police station. We had one boy that we are friends with who was not working in the bar but was a customer that night and he was taken in to the station as well. He was shortly released and allowed to go as he told them he was not working there. He was over 20 and just a customer there.

 

Sitting across the street watching the boys most barefoot being carded off to jail on a baht bus was disturbing. Most were not taken away because of being underage but simply for lack of ID card. I do not know how many are still there today. I do know that I watched 15 boys being taken away.

 

From my understanding, the mamasan called the owner who quickly arrived via motorbike. They all talked and chatted for a while. About an hour later, the bar opened again but with only 4 boys on stage. I am not sure if it will be open today or not as that is a police determination and it is my understanding that it depends on what kind of money switches hands.

 

I was also told that as a foreigner, whenever the police question you re: anything, you have the right to tell them you want the tourist police there. It is not an option on their part. I was not questioned nor was any other farang. But, the talk while this was going on gave me some interesting information. For example, I did not know that many of the boys know when they see the police to head for a short stay room as the police are not allowed to enter one without a warrant and probable cause. For this particular raid, there was an officer stationed at the top of the stairs to stop the boys from entering the rooms.

 

Paradise has its flaws but one of the only ones I can see is the corruption here is more than I have seen anywhere. Everyone wants their hands greased.

 

Anyway, this is what happened last night that turned Chaos into Chaos.

[marc anthony]

:-( :-(

[Guest rampo]

The bar in question (I believe that its name is actually spelled Kaos) is one of those that has a reputation of dancing on the edge of the law. The fact is, all Thai over the age of 15 are required to carry their national ID. If they don't have ID, it usually means that they are either illegal immigrants (usually from Burma or Laos) or they are hiding the fact that they are underage. Although all boys who work in the bars are required to be at least 18 (customers must be at least 20), a few bars are lax about following this rule and put their customers at serious risk of being arrested for having sex with a minor.

[TotallyOz]

>The bar in question (I believe that its name is actually

>spelled Kaos) is one of those that has a reputation of dancing

>on the edge of the law. The fact is, all Thai over the age of

>15 are required to carry their national ID. If they don't have

>ID, it usually means that they are either illegal immigrants

>(usually from Burma or Laos) or they are hiding the fact that

>they are underage. Although all boys who work in the bars are

>required to be at least 18 (customers must be at least 20), a

>few bars are lax about following this rule and put their

>customers at serious risk of being arrested for having sex

>with a minor.

 

Yes, it is Kaos.

 

Most bars in Sunnee skirt on the grey line with the age of the boys working. However, I have found that the mamasans have been very upfront and honest about a boy's age. Some bars toe this line better than others. Kaos is one of them that seem to follow most of the rules. That does not mean that all their boys are over 18 as I knew that is not the case. But, they are better than many and even the bars in Boyztown do the same thing, they are just not as upfront about it. I much prefer someone to tell me the real age and let me move on from there as opposed to continuing a conversation.

 

Also, I am staying at a nice hotel that does card boys that come in. They do not let anyone under 18 in the room area of the hotel. As I do not see anyone under 18 anyway, I have no issue with this. However, I do know of farangs who will not stay here for that exact reason.

 

I would say most bars live in the grey area when it comes to boys who are not Thai but working here illegally.

 

The law for age in bars is 20 years of age as a customer if you are Thai. If you are not Thai, you can go into the bars at 18 or 19 with no problem. So if an escort boy in the US wanted to visit me, and he was 18 or 19, he would not have a problem getting into those places. hint hint

 

 

All that being said, I was there when the boys were led away. They were not the young boys that many of the bars have. They were more 18-22 year olds.

[Guest icon513]

What do you expect them to do with boys who are not of legal working age, or who are illegal immigrant workers? It is not all fun and games in Thailand, there are rules to be followed. And many of the bars in Sunee Plaza flout the law. The occasional raid is the inevitable consequence. Truthfully, about half the bars in Sunee Plaza need to be shut down for good.

[TotallyOz]

>What do you expect them to do with boys who are not of legal

>working age, or who are illegal immigrant workers? It is not

>all fun and games in Thailand, there are rules to be followed.

> And many of the bars in Sunee Plaza flout the law. The

>occasional raid is the inevitable consequence. Truthfully,

>about half the bars in Sunee Plaza need to be shut down for

>good.

 

I am shocked that in a place like Thailand, they flout the law! I am utterly appalled. Similar to prostitutes in American who advertise on the internet or who are in the country illegally. I think that all the web sites and bars that even remotely relate to anything illegal should be shut down.

 

Poor Hoo. He has thought all these years that this was fun and games.

[Guest icon513]

Cyberspace is one thing. Bars openly offering underage and illegal alien boy prostitutes is another. How long would such a place last in the US, or virtually anywhere else in the world?

[gerefan]

Icon513, can you answer a question for me about ages please?

 

I am advised to ask to see a boys ID, in Thailand, to check he is over 18.

 

However, is it shown in the European style or the Buddist Calendar?

If the latter how do I translate it?

 

Thanks

Gerefan

[FourAces]

>Icon513, can you answer a question for me about ages please?

>

>I am advised to ask to see a boys ID, in Thailand, to check he

>is over 18.

>

>However, is it shown in the European style or the Buddist

>Calendar?

>If the latter how do I translate it?

>

>Thanks

>Gerefan

 

I'm not Icon but I have the answer to your question. Thailand follows the Buddhist calendar. The current year is 2547 therefore, for your boy to be legal age he should show a birth year of 2529 or earlier on his ID card.

 

RT

[TotallyOz]

>Cyberspace is one thing. Bars openly offering underage and

>illegal alien boy prostitutes is another. How long would such

>a place last in the US, or virtually anywhere else in the

>world?

 

Thank you! That is precicely my point. This is not the US and we can't judge things over here by our values. Thank goodness they don't prescribe to American Values.

 

Icon, I don't disagree with you on the age for the bars as I don't won't hire anyone under 18. But, who says 18 should be the age? Is that just a number than we were told would be ok? Is 17 ok for you? What about 17 years and 11 months? Everyone makes judgement calls on what they are comfortable with. I would not want any American coming over here and telling the bar owners or the police how to run their establishment. That is not my place. My place is whether or not I choose to frequent those places are not. Most of my time is spent in Boyztown where the age requirements are more strict. But, there are boys there under 18 as well.

 

I guess my point was that I prefer to leave it up to the Thai people to decide what they want in their bars or not and what times they should be open until and etc.

 

If we close the bars in Sunnee, I bet the ones in Boyztown are next and then Bangkok and so on.

[Guest icon513]

>> If we close the bars in Sunnee, I bet the ones in Boyztown are next and then Bangkok and so on.

 

Exactly my point. I would never take it upon myself to crusade against anything in Thailand, but by openly flouting the law, these "bad egg" bars could incite a backlash that sees ALL the bars closed. That is one of the main reasons why I -- and many other residents in Thailand -- feel so strongly against them.

 

By the way, while the age of consent may be 18, the minimum age for boys working in the bars is supposed to be 20. Some of the bars in Sunee Plaza have boys under 15 openly working in them. All it takes is some international organization or periodical to an "expose", and the backlash would be strong and widespread...and could provide the excuse for the government to close down all the boy bars. Don't forget that prostitution IS illegal in Thailand, so the government would certainly be within its legal right to close the whole lot down.

 

So, in my opinion it is welcome when the police raid these places. They reflect poorly on the gay scene in general, and put it at risk for the sake of milking some money out of small number of pedophiles.

[TotallyOz]

>By the way, while the age of consent may be 18, the minimum

>age for boys working in the bars is supposed to be 20. Some

>of the bars in Sunee Plaza have boys under 15 openly working

>in them. All it takes is some international organization or

>periodical to an "expose", and the backlash would be strong

>and widespread...and could provide the excuse for the

>government to close down all the boy bars. Don't forget that

>prostitution IS illegal in Thailand, so the government would

>certainly be within its legal right to close the whole lot

>down.

 

I really don't think we are far off from our thinking.

 

A question for you: I was told the age of working in a bar was 18 and that is what a friend of mine who is a Thai police officer said as well. But, the age for a boy to be a customer in a bar is 20. Is this incorrect? If so, do you know where I can find the answer to this?

 

Lastly, http://www.ageofconsent.com lists the age for consent for Thailand at 15. My understanding is that is correct and verified but that to exchange money or gifts for sex the law is then 18. Therefore any Farange caught with a minor is expected to have offered an exchange. Is this correct?

[Guest icon513]

Sorry, you are correct, my previous information was wrong: 20 is the minimum age for customers, 18 for workers.

 

And you are right, 18 is assumed to be the safest minimum age for any kind of dalliance between people of different socio-economic groups.

 

Another reason why many of us who have something invested in Thailand (I myself have lived here 15 years and am a business owner) despise the bad egg bars is that they demonstrate that corruption is alive and well here. Most of us hope for a future Thailand where the law is enforced evenly and without corruptive influences. It may spoil some of the "fun" that tourists come here for, but it will be better for the Thai people overall.

[TotallyOz]

>Sorry, you are correct, my previous information was wrong:

>20 is the minimum age for customers, 18 for workers.

 

One thing you will learn is that I am usually correct when it comes to legal matters. jk (that was intended as a joke by the way)But things are so different over here and it is very hard to get accustomed to the way things work. And, I hear a different story from everyone I ask. I know that my short stay here has been amazing and wonderful but there are many things that bother me and I do realize that there are many problems here.

 

>Another reason why many of us who have something invested in

>Thailand (I myself have lived here 15 years and am a business

>owner) despise the bad egg bars is that they demonstrate that

>corruption is alive and well here. Most of us hope for a

>future Thailand where the law is enforced evenly and without

>corruptive influences. It may spoil some of the "fun" that

>tourists come here for, but it will be better for the Thai

>people overall.

 

I would love to see this as well. I have many friends that make Thailand their home and I love it so much here I am looking for a place to buy. I also would love to see things even-handed over here for everyone. Farangs included.

[TotallyOz]

BTW: Kaos did not close. It was open the night of the raid and the ones afterward as well.

[KY_TOP]

Hey Oz, What is the latest on the raid and the guys that got arrested?

[TotallyOz]

The next day was business as usual. It was like nothing had happened at all. Several of the boys I saw get taken down were back as well. I am not sure how long they were kept or what. The last few nights, the place was packed. There are the old boys and several new ones. The only difference I see is that I watched the whole thing happen. Other than that, no sign of anything.

 

Kaos was very busy last 3 nights. Tons of customers and tons of boys being taken off. 2 nights ago, there was hardly a seat to be had in the place.

[KY_TOP]

Glad things got back to normal so fast and that no one seems the worst for the raid. Glad to read you are enjoying your time there so much. The BF and I are making plans to go to Bangkok for the Christmas Holidays. Thanks for keeping us posted on your Adventures there.

[TotallyOz]

Excellent. Bangkok is fabulous. I love it there and have many favorite things to do. How long will you stay and is Bangkok your only destination in Thailand?

[KY_TOP]

We will be arriving Christmas Eve and leaving the afternoon of New Year's Day. Right now Bangkok is our only planned destination in Thailand.

[TotallyOz]

Bangkok is a fabulous city and one of my favorites. If you want any suggestions before you land, let me know! I know you both will have a marvelous time!