My recent trip to Thailand

[Casteran]

Just wanted to share some recent experience with the scene in Thailand for any of those interested. First off - my reference to boy in this monologue is strictly meant for anyone OVER 18 yr of age - does not infer anyone under age. 40 Baht equals $1

 

If you can afford fly First Class - makes trip a lot more comfortable and you can actually arrive refreshed - 30 hr trip from U.S.

 

Bangkok - Soi 4 off Silom Rd is not as busy as it once was - best bar is The Balcony Bar, best restaurant The Sphinx. Patpong 2 once a gay area is now all straight with the exception the Screw Bar which is tucked away and hard to find.

Pattaya - Cafe Royale was nice, clean, friendly hotel. Definitely get a suite or penthouse room - other rooms are very small and some do not have air conditioning - unless you like sweating while sleeping. (other ways of working up a sweat are OK too). Hotel is right on street with all the boy bars - makes for great eye candy. If you visit be sure to say to Dome, cute, cute, cute and very friendly - but straight and does not play - but he is just too cute to look at. All the bars/clubs are OK, depends if you want go-go boys or bar to sit and people/boy watch. Definitely go to Jomtien Beach - easy tuktuk ride from Pattaya - cost about .25 - once at Jomtien get off at police station, turn right and go down to "toilet" block - gay beach starts at that section. Great to relax and lots of friendly boys - definitely some hotties

Phuket - great beach resort. Icon Hotel - really nice but quite a walk/tuktuk ride from beach - not convenient to bars either. Royal Paradise Hotel - modern high rise hotel right across from boy bars, allows for "friends" to visit - they say they charge 600 Baht (about $12) for each "friend" but I never got charged. Club Andaman Hotel - very nice hotel, friendly, western style hotel with main building and some Thai bungalows - does NOT allow guests and got a bit upset that I brought someone back to room, luckily I only stayed there one night.

Gay beach area is right in center of beach area, in front of Tourist Police tower. Find a nice lounge chair, some "manages" the chairs and will bring you food and drink all day, just pay when you leave. I spent 5 days on beach and never spent more than $10, for chair rental, drinks, and lunch - that was two people!

 

General comments - Thailand is a poor country, do NOT flash your money around or make outrageous offers to boys for their time. They are just as happy to have a good time with you for 800-1000 Baht or up to 1200 for an overnight - like Brazil don't inflate the market by paying more.

The boys will find you! Just being a foreigner (farang) they consider you rich as you have traveled to Thailand - I had one boy comment that even young farang are rich - refering to the back-pack group. Go-Go bars are OK, but mostly found them rather boring as boys just kind of stand and "move" a bit - most are straight. Go to any bar and enjoy a drink, the boys will approach you as many boys work at each bar - just make eye contact and smile, voila boy comes to talk to you, offer to buy him a drink (they will almost always just order a soft drink (40 Baht). If you want to get better acquantited just say so, do not be shy - they are very up front on what they will and will not do. Sometimes the manager of bar will talk to you and ask what you are looking for - I wanted two boys to some fun - manager delivered on that request quite well. If you are not interested just politely tell boy that you are not interested.

I just got back yesterday so info is fresh. (28 Jul 03)

Try to learn a little of their language or at minimum Sawasdee cha (hello).

Watch outs - Pattaya and Phuket - many under age boys, they will catch your eye as they are sooooo cute, but be careful as paying someone under 18 for time is strictly forbidden. Go-GO bar boys are mostly straight, if you like that fine, but don't expect too much. Again don't be afraid to ask what you are looking for in a companion.

The boys will readily talk about money, how much you have, how much will you spend on them, will you buy them dinner - for you to spend 1400 Baht on a nice dinner is very strange for most of the boys - that much money on dinner is a lot to them - (approx $35).

If you spend time with them at all, they will say they love you from moment one - it is meant as a term of respect not for the most part actual "love". I do admit I became smitten with a Thai boy and spent about 8 days with him, he was a great companion, very affectionate, and just a cutie. He stayed at airport with me and was crying when we said goodbye - he has emailed me every day since. Not only that he refused the money I gave him and said he just liked being with me and that I treated him well, now I did nothing special expect buy meals, one sight-seeing trip, and the basics.

 

Some notes: the boys while very open about money and what they will/won't do, are very modest when you get them to room about undressing in front of you mostly. They did not want their pictures taken - I didn't want anything unusual just a photograph, nude of course. It was difficult to find two Thai boys willing to "work" together - they are not comfortable with that.

Don't be afraid to have a companion and walk about anywhere and feel uncomfortable - farang/thai boy couples were everywhere and most Thai people ignore it, most westerners will give you a second look. I found the boys to be very affectionate, they will hold your hand walking in public, while relaxing at beach they will cuddle next to you.

I will go back - off season - weather was OK, some rain but still got a great tan. Rates are very low and lots of boys to chose from as they are not very busy........

 

I did a lot of other sightseeing as well, beautiful temples, great islands around Phuket.

 

Enjoy if you go

[Guest Alaska14k]

Casteran,

Just a note of thanks for your post. I traveled to Thailand two years ago, and have tickets for two weeks over the New Years 2004 holiday. Just happy to hear from a poster that all is well, and which places are up and running. I found it easy to use reward miles to get a first class seat to Asia, got the days I wanted easily. Agree with you about a Suite at the Cafe Royale--very reasonably priced, and far superior to the regular rooms; plus they have a great website with room layouts.

Hope my adventure turns out as well as your trip did!!!!! Thanks

[Happy]

Casteran,

 

I enjoyed your report on Thailand. I have been three times, twice to Bangkok and once to Pattaya. I am planning a trip on the way home from a business trip to China in November. I am contemplating going to either Chang Mai or Phuket. Any insights on one vs the other?

[Casteran]

Alaska - enjoy your trip!

 

Happy - Chang Mai is in beautiful northern Thailand with rolling lush hills, trekking, great temples, and a short hop to Chang Rai which is also pretty. Gay scene is pretty scarce and bars number 2-3 rather spread out. Go there if you want to see temples and do some trekking or just relax.

Phuket - beach resort plain and simple. Bars are all on one street, almost all hotels are within 2 blocks of beach or short tuktuk ride.

 

So depends on what you want for your extra time.

[Guest pshaw]

I recommend Chiang Mai if you want to see a city that is more realistically Thai, Phuket (Patong Beach in particular) if you want nicer beaches than Pattaya.

 

Since Chiang Mai is up north in the mountainous area, you may actually encounter evenings where the temperature gets down into the 50s in November. Days will still be around 80 degrees. Chiang Mai also features many "trekking" trips, either one day or longer, which usually include rafting. A trip to the temple up on Doi Suthep mountain is a must. Lots of good shopping available from many artisan factories located around the city. The rain season is USUALLY over by October, so the rivers should be running high. Winter is normally very dry so by the end of winter the rivers are running low and the rafting isn't as much fun. Of the "Big 4" (Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Chiang Mai), Chiang Mai has the fewest gay bars. Adam's Apple is considered the main one to visit. Most of the other gay bars are scattered throughout town, although there are gay beer bars near the Night Market.

 

Since Phuket is in the south, the weather will probably still be tropical. Phuket has many national parks and, of course, many nice day trips, often involving sailing to places like Phi Phi Islands (popular for scuba diving and snorkling) or Phang Nga Bay. Patong Beach has many gay bars, almost all of them located in the Paradise Complex. I was there this past May and, owing to SARS, the Iraqi conflict and terrorist threats, business was VERY slow, although all the bars had a large complement of barboys. Even though I was with my Thai boyfriend, I still had doormen from the many bars trying to drag me in. There is a small gay beach, but it is not a Phuket version of Jomtien Beach (which is loaded with available beach/money boys). Patong Beach is a fun place and lots of good, cheap seafood. It's pricier than either Chiang Mai or Pattaya, but still not very expensive.

 

So in choosing between Chiang Mai and Phuket, you basically need to decide what you want - a nice beach vacation or a visit to "more genuine" Thai city near the mountains. Both are great places, but it depends on what you are in the mood for.

 

I would like to add that, in my experience, there is no reason to seek out "gay friendly" hotels - most hotels in Thailand simply don't care. Some will charge for overnight guests, male or female, and many don't, especially if you book a double room. I have stayed at both the Ambiance and Le Cafe Royale hotels while in Pattaya, but there is really no need to restrict yourself to these two gay-marketed hotels. For both hotels you pay a gay premium, albeit a small one, and neither one has a pool. These hotels are fine for the first-time visitors who are just getting their feet wet or for those who feel that they must stay in the middle of Boyztown, but Pattaya is very easy to navigate and travel in (the local baht buses only cost about twenty-five cents, the motorcycle taxis about a dollar). There are nice, less expensive hotels with large swimming pools that are still no more than a 5 to 15 minute ride to Boyztown or Sunee Plaza.

 

Useful links:

http://www.dreadedned.com/

http://www.pattayagay.com/

http://www.gaybutton.com/

http://www.gaypatong.com/

http://www.dragoncastle.net

[+ Lucky]

I love hearing Thailand stories, so thanks Casteran. My first trip was also in July and I was stunned at the humidity and heat, so now I try to go in our wintertime. The guys actually think it is freezing there when it gets own in the 60's.

As far as bringing guys to the room, the better hotels don't allow it. Once security came to my room and demanded to know if I had a woman in there. Of course, I said no! Nonetheless, I was caught and a fee was demanded. Since the action had already started, I was prepared to pay it, but the guy (from tawan bar) had no id on him so they threw him out anyway.

I have been back frequently but not for several years now, so my info is a bit dated. I would like to go back soon. It truly is the Land of Smiles.

[Guest pshaw]

Lucky is right - the posher the hotel, the more likely they are to cater to the family crowd and more likely to forbid or charge high "joiner fees" for overnight guests.

 

When I took my Thai friend to Chiang Mai for his first visit, the poor guy was miserable because of the cool weather - his skin turned ashy and he broke out in hives. In the past three years I have as yet been unable to convince him to make return trip.

 

I guess the Washington summers have inured me somewhat to the warmer extremes of Thai weather. Although I have never visited in July (too much rain), I often visit in May and adjust rather quickly to the heat. Still, when I first exit the aircondtioned airport and step into the Thai night air, I do have to suppress a gasp. I do find Bangkok miserable anytime of the year - the air pollution plus the high humidity can be pretty miserable. I rarely spend more than two or three days of any Thai vacation in the Big Mango, and I only do that to pick up gifts and items at the massive Chatuchak Weekend Market.

[TotallyOz]

What a great post and a series of good responces. Thank you all. I am going there in October myself and I will report in as well.

[Guest tenner]

I live in Singapore and take a weekend in Phuket a few times a year.

The scene is more relaxed than BKK and concentrated in a smaller area. There is a gay Phuiet website you can google for.

 

I like Phuket and it is definitely more relaxing than BKK.

 

Thanks,

tenner

[Guest msclonly]

Annual Getaway from the Holidays trips!

 

The joys of Thailand are the HAPPY people. The happiest in the world, that I know of! Nary a discouraging word to be heard!

The best tasting fruits and vegetables to go with their refined cuisine and just about any other you might want from Asian, European, to American. In fact, the only place, where I will eat at a Sizzler, often, for excellent food costing pennies. Would not set foot in a Sizzler in the States with the unripened tasteless fruit.

 

After a lifetime living in the aggressive (and hostile) Western Judeo-Christian World, I tell people, that I am a latent Buddhist from observing the wonderful people in Thailand. A real Thai massage is the most therapeutic of any, that I have had anywhere!

 

Happy travels.

:9 :* ;-) :o

[buckguy]

I first went to Thailand almost 15 years ago, lived there for several years in the 90s, and still go back for long work trips several times a year. In that context, all these posts seem a little preposterous. The idea that you can know much about a place on the basis of tourist traps like Phuket or Pattaya, or, for that matter, Bangkok or Chiang Mai is a little ridiculous. Chiang Mai is probably less rather than more Thai than Bangkok---ia larger proportion of its population is made of expats. As I learned on my 1st trip, all one has to do is go a few blocks from the usual tourist and expat haunts and there's plenty of "Thailand" in Bangkok---just go East of the Grand Palace or go to Chinatown and you'll see plenty. Besides the commercial sex, i can't imagine going to Phuket or Pattaya. Both have significant environmental problems are a good examples of bad development, where all the money goes to wealthy people in Bangkok. It's also difficult to find a decent Thai meal in either place unless you know locals. Even very touristy places like Samui, Krabi, Hua Hin, Ko Chang, etc. have far more to offer than these environmeally-challenged tourist traps. The "real Thailand" awaits in places like the Northeast (interesting national parks, nice towns on the Mekong, Khmer ruins, "prehistoric" sites, great crafts that aren't mass produced--unlike most of the trinkets in Chiang Mai) or plaecs like MaiSod or nan in the North (both have great national parks and minority groups who aren't "on display"). None of these places requires much effort or real adventure---just a willingness to go someplace besides Silom/Surawongse.

 

I doubt whether Thais are any more or less happy than anyone lese. Yes, they smile alot, but there are many smiles in Thailand, some of which are "dry" (nothing much behind them). Thai society is rather closed and much energy goes into maintaining smooth relations with family, etc. which takes a toll on people. The murder rate in Thailand is not much different from the US---all that compromise and emotional repression takes its toll.

 

Poverty is a relative thing and Thailand, despite great and disparities in income, lacks a large population of destitute people (unlike, say, Brazil, which it resembles in some other ways economically). Ordinary Thais are well-off compared with people in Nepal, Cambodia, or Burma. Economic mobility is officially encouraged in Thailand, but the elite have any number of ways to make it difficult, like school fees for the "compulsory" secondary schools. BTW, the Sizzler (which I avoid even in Thailand), like most fast food in Thailand, is not much cheaper than in the US. You're better off getting actual Thai food from a vendor.

[buckguy]

Hotels

 

I've never had a problem with guests at tourist-class or first class hotels in BKK. Hotels in Chiang Mai are much more on guard about these things, although it varies there, too. I suspect that a lot of it depends on your guest---I've also noticed this with hets who bring women to hotels. If your companion is reasonably well dressed (no more of a slob than the average tourist at that hotel) and appears to be over the age 21, it seems to make a difference. The guys I like are not the stereotypical Thais that most farang go for--they're older, physically bigger, and a bit more worldy, so they fit in pretty well. Someone who looks like a "hooker", or appears to be 14 years old, or is just clearly out of their element is an invitation to intervention by the staff. Timing is another consideration----late at night, when there are no people from banquets or wedding parties wandering around the lobby, hotels seem more permissive about guests. Many bar boys would rather go to a short-time hotel near their workplace where they know how things work. Plus, this often gives them an easier opportunity to have another customer.

[Guest pshaw]

Sorry - didn't mean to be preposterous, but I was responding specifically to Happy's post asking the relative merits of Chiang Mai vs. Phuket. The average tourist is likely to become frustrated by straying far off the beaten path without a decent working knowledge of Thai or the help of a Thai companion/guide. Away from the tourist areas, romanized signs are few and far between. As for Thai smiles, almost any Thai you strike up a friendship with will tell you fairly quickly, "All Thai smiles not mean the same thing."

 

If your basic acquaintance with Thailand is Patpong or Pattya, a week in Isaan will probably not be to your liking. If one has been to Thailand and never seen Chiang Mai, I would definitely say that it is a must-visit place. My reference to Chiang Mai as being "more genuine" Thai was put in quotation marks because it is still, after all, a major tourist venue with many attractions and amenities aimed at the farang tourist. But Chiang Mai will definitely give one more of a taste of Thailand than a place like Phuket, which in many ways is barely distinguishable from other beach resorts in other countries, although it can still be fun. And Chiang Mai is a good launching-off place for places that aren't on the average "10 days in the Land of Smiles" tour itinerary. If one wants a more adventurous itinerary, all it takes is a copy of "Lonely Planet: Thailand."

 

I agree that the best Thai food for the money can be found at the street vendors and the smaller restaurants geared more to the Thai themselves. (I also see no reason to visit a Sizzler in Thailand unless you have a massive craving for a salad bar - in Thailand or Terre Haute, a Sizzler is still basically a Sizzler.) I disagree that it is difficult to find DECENT Thai food in the tourist areas. Some places may tone it down a bit for foreigners (in their authentic form, the spicy dishes are almost intolerable for many farang), but it is almost always better and far less expensive than any Thai food that you will find outside of Thailand. Even in the tourist areas, Thai people have to eat. In fact, Thai people LOVE to eat, and if a restaurant has a good number of Thai customers, it's a pretty good sign.

:-)

[Guest msclonly]

Thai food

 

The difference at a Thai Sizzler is the produce is GARDEN FRESH and has good taste, unlike in the States, where the produce is picked unripe and TASTELESS! Another good reason, the place is located in the mall only steps from the hotel.

 

You have to have the 'stomach' for street vendor food! And the strong spicey seasoning is to help protect you, which I don't like. Will never forget the large rat headed for some morsels, that ran over my foot as I walked past the lineup of diners at the street vendors behind Robisons on Silom and Rama IV! Tnat is not saying anything for airborne virmits, that get in the food from all the traffic on the streets next to the vendors on the curbs. You could say, sitting down in airconditioning is more my thing. Like a LARGE buffet with MANY choices of cuisine at the Dusit Thani Hotel on the lower level! So many of the dishes are made to order, that it is just like eating on the street, only more comfortable. :)

The utinsils are washed in hot running water, also!

 

But the garden fresh delicious pineapple and melons are a big part of my diet in Thailand every day. That I can get get on the street.

[Casteran]

RE: Hotels

 

Buckguy - not sure why you find our posts preposterous. I was sharing my experience from my holiday. I would recommend you not start a career in writing travel books for tourists. EVERY country has positives and negatives (I have traveled much of the world). I chose not to list the negatives of horrible smells while walking the streets, women with babies begging at your feet, local food vendors with flys all over the food......rather takes away from the "good" times had by all in Thailand or anywhere else.

 

Not being a native of the U.S. and being raised in a bi-lingual home, I also tend to more sensitive to the rest of the world than most Americans. Living overseas does not make one an expert, having lived in London myself for a time.

 

Sorry buckguy but your post just hit me the wrong way, preposterous indeed! x(

[+ Lucky]

RE: Bangkok 8

 

Buckguy seemed to me to be saying that he is just a little more cultured than the rest of us because he actually went out of the tourist zone and met a REAL Thai person. Well, it is preposterous for him to presume our experience isn't of the quality that his is since we are focusing here, as Casteran ponts out, on specific situations. I think it so wonderful when a farang brags about eating the street food. Just remember that when you are shitting your guts out.

Thailand is a big place, there is something for everybody. Your mileage may vary. Many of us have a lot of experience there that isn't particularly pertinent to this thread.

 

Hopefully buckguy won't find it too trite that I recommend the book Bangkok 8, by John Burdett, which is currently out in hardback. It is an interesting detective story told from the view point of a Thai cop who is half-farang. Lots of fascinating points of view about East-West.

[buckguy]

RE: Bangkok 8

 

Hate to say this, but---I've spent over a decade working in Thailand. I spend a good chunk of my time there now and lived there full time for several years in the 90s. There's a pretty good chance I'll be moving back again. I've travelled all over the country and have met more than one Thai, gay or otherwise. The only way you'll ever know anything about the place is to get out of the tourist ghetto and off the BKK-Phuket-Chiang Mai trail. It will put Soi 4, etc. in perspective.

 

BTW, I've also read Bangkok 8 which is a good read, but written from a rather barstool-ish perspective.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Bangkok 8

 

Well, of course you have to get out of the tourist ghetto. that is true anywhere. But your original post seemed to suggest that we were all stuck in the ghetto, except for your royal highness..

Did you actually read Bangkok8?

[Guest swiftone]

I would just like to thank everyone for the posts here. I am going to Thailand last two weeks in November and the posts weere very informative and gave me a lot to go on. This will be my first trip to Thailand. I plan to spend 6 days in Bangkok and six days in either Pattaya or Phuket, havn't decided yet, then a couple of nights back in Bangkok before I fly home. Open for sugestions for a first timer.

Thanks guys

Swiftone

[+ Lucky]

Pattaya is more fun than Phuket, which is prettier than Pattaya!

[Guest msclonly]

Very true!:+

[+ Axiom2001]

Although I have yet to go to Phuket-- I'd firmly second Lucky's take on this: since this is your first visit, you must experience Pattaya and its BoysTown atmosphere. Save Phuket for your next trip.

[Guest pshaw]

For me, the main advantage of Pattaya is that it is only a 2-hour taxi ride from Bangkok (costing about $25 to $30) whereas Phuket requires a flight (or a hell of a long bus ride). Pattaya is definitely an experience - some people hate it's honky-tonk, in-your-face atmosphere, but others love it. But love it or hate it, I can think of no other beach town like Pattaya.

 

As I wrote earlier, Phuket in many ways is not very distinguishable from other beach resorts. Patong Beach, Phuket, is definitely more upscale - and more expensive - than Pattaya and, if you actually like spending time at the beach, the water is much cleaner. While Patong doesn't have nearly as many "boy bars" as Pattaya, there are certainly more than enough to keep you busy for a week. From a personal perspective, I think the moneyboys in Phuket are, on average, a little less jaded than the ones in Pattaya. On the other hand, when I was in Phuket this past May, business at the gay bars was so slow that many of the barboys were talking about heading to Pattaya. But business should be better there in November, the beginning of high season.

[ohgwm226]

Saunas..Web sites..Bangkok..

 

I tried to access Babylon web site. It appears to be unaccessable now. I tried another site: Ban Thai. It was also off line. Is this co-incident? Or is it part of the "crackdown"? Are both these venues still open and doing business? Or should I cancel my planned trip to Bangkok in late November? Do people who live in Bangkok know or feel that things would go back to "normal" when the high profile guests of your town are gone?

Most TV networks in USA reported, some with amazement/amusement, about the massive effort by the Thai government to hide unpleasant things in Bangkok, and keep them off view when so many world leaders are there.

I would appreciate any insite from Thais, or their guests in Bangkok.