Boys tipped 70 Reais after 30th november?

[xchris]

I was at 117 and during the Bingo joke, the teller said something as "UNTIL 30 of NOVEMBER" and all the boys said loudy the number 50. I asked infos to the boy close to me and he explained: "Yes, this means because the tip for a boy in 50 reais until 30th of november. After that day the price will be 70 Reais...".

 

Anyone of you already heard about this new or this is just a misunderstanding?

 

CHRIS

 

Nice place to visit for a dinner with different bars and young crowds is COBAL in Humaitá. Is an old market converted in bar center where nice TexMex and IceCream places are duelling with Draft Beers and cocktail lounges. Best on Wed, Fri, Sat nights.

[trilingual]

Well, the prices of everything else have gone up, so at some point the price of sauna adventures probably will increase, too. However, I don't think there's a Sauna Boys Union to set the rates, so this may be wishful thinking. December 1 would be the beginning of the high season, so I suppose the boys are hopeful, but local salaries and incomes haven't increased much so Brazilian customers will be resistant. There will also be a lot more boys, if past experience holds true, so the competition may also help keep prices down. It's all a quite fascinating little laboratory experiment in pure capitalism! We'll have to see how it all comes out!

[sf traveler]

I too would find it difficult to believe that an organized effort could actually raise the prices, but, oddly enough, a boy recently tried to negotiate my R$50 offer up to R$70, which I thought was an odd number. Once they start negotiating the price, I lose interest, much to his disappointment. Also, I have heard from several boys that in spite of signficant inflation in Brazil, the ready supply of boys has tended to put downward pressure on the boys´ prices. SF Traveler.

[Guest msclonly]

It seems more like 'wishful thinking', which never is forgotten about.

 

:7

[nycpaul]

Honestly, 70 Reais (which is a little more than $23) is certainly a bargain for the sexual services provided by the beautiful sauna boys. In New York, dancers at the Gaiety theater are now asking for $300 just to be worshipped for about 20 minutes.Most of the posters on this board are American and know what a bargain Brazil is for male sexual services. Paying the sauna boys less than 70 Reais is taking great advantage of the poverty of their country and borders almost on slavery.

[+ Axiom2001]

Paul, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The boys' rates definitely beat those of our escorts, for who escorts in the US under $100 for an hour.

 

Even the freelance scorts charge R$150 ($53) per hour plus taxi which is still a super bargain that allows one to have many adventures.

 

There are a few exceptions, but it's up to the taker as to whether he wishes to fork out many more reais or dollars.

 

At the saunas I usually cite R$50 to the boys who usually wind up with R$70 or $R80 in the end; I always offer to get them food and drink if they desire. Luckily, my guys have settled for juice, or a liquor drink instead of the exorbitant Red Bull,but if a guy had wanted me to buy it for him, I more than likely would have...

 

So, fellows if the initial rate becomes R$70 in all of the saunas, enjoy and pay. Anyway our going to saunas and engaging the services of the guys is a far cry from the $200, 300, $350, $400 per hour here, as there is a miniscule number of guys in the US requesting $100 or $150 per session.....! :9

[Guest Tomcal_]

The Logic on this post escapes me! First, how desperate do you have to be to pay $300,+ to a Gaiety dancer for 20 min. of body worship?? To compare that to Rio suana prices is, imo absurd. Would you pay Manhatten real estate prices to a Rio realtor, since they are both providing the same service?? A one bedroom condo in Copacabana within a block of the beach is $90,000. U.S.(one was just bought by a M4M) the price in Manhatten is now reported to be $1,000,000. + so should he have paid the Rio Realator a additional $900,000. ??

Eventually all the the PC queens will get their wish and Rio guys will be charging U.S. prices. Many of the guys are now asking for $100. reias, double the going rate. One American, this past year paid an average of $5,000./mo U.S. to one guy in the suanas over a 6month period ($30,000.)and now a lot of the boys think that Americans are all wealthy, somewhat stupid with their money, gullible queens! This particular suana guy talked to me at the suana last month and referred to his American benefactor as "crazy"! Remember their rent/food/etc. are also comparable to their suana prices in comparison to our pricing. Dinner for 4 people in Rio is less then for one person in NYC, guess maybe we should quintuple the bill, so that we are not taking advantage of the restaurant/waiters too!

One last point, although more and more Americans are going to Rio, we still make up only 10% of the customers, the local Brazilians get mad at the Americans, as they typically pay $40. reias and can't afford the higher prices. Maybe they will end up with "American" Saunas for the wealthy americans and Local men only suanas for the Cariocas!

[Guest dreynsol]

The last time I checked the average monthly income in Brazil is R$285. With two programmas at a sauna for $70 Realis and an overnight stay for $R150. An enterprising sauna boy could make this in a full day/night's work.

 

The average monthly income in the US is around $3,300. Do you really think an escort in the US could make that amount in a day? If you know of any, let me know since I'll volunteer to be their investment advisor. :-)

 

>> Paying the sauna boys less than 70 Reais is taking great advantage of the poverty of their country <<

Don't think so, relatively speaking. The Brazilians tourism industry is booming as it is. Showering these boys with Realis makes the lot of us look like "easy marks" and more importantly diminishes their respect for us. And, it causes recentment among the locals who can't afford these prices.

 

"When in Rome, do as the Romans" and don't feel like you're cheating anyone.

 

- Drey

[trilingual]

RE: Prices and Overpaying

 

Faithful readers of M4M know that we've had this discussion before! :7

 

It's easy for Americans/Europeans to start feeling guilt-tripped by the local prices, but my only reaction to that (at this late stage of the game) is that if you can't resist falling for it and feel you must overpay, STAY HOME! Don't come to Brazil. It's not for you.

 

I can't say it enough: You can't travel to a very different country and apply all your own cultural baggage to the local situation. This ISN'T Germany or Britain or the U.S. It's a country where R$285 a month is the minimum wage, as another poster stated. Bus/subway fare is R$2. A decent meal at a cheap restaurant (the kind the sauna boys go to on their own) can be had starting at R$3 - 4. The guys who live in town almost always live with their families and don't pay rent, per se. They do help out (in some cases almost entirely) with the overall family expenses. The guys who come to work in the big city share apartments with some of the other guys. Typically they plan on about R$150 - 250 a month for rent. (To keep things in perspective, rent on my very nice 2-bedroom apartment in Copacabana is R$850 a month, although that's near the low end of the market -- it could have been as much as R$1200.) A decent working class income in a big city like Rio is between R$900 - 1200/mo. A decent middle class salary in Brazil is between R$2000 - 4000/mo.

 

At R$50 a half-hour session (plus tips and free food/drink from clients) the sauna boys can earn a good working class salary without much effort, which isn't otherwise an easy thing to do in a country with huge unemployment, especially among the young and undereducated. If a guy is good he can make considerably more. The smarter guys manage to save a good part of their earnings and eventually move on, using their savings to build a house, or buy a taxi, or open a small business. It's very unlikely that these guys could earn anywhere near as much in the other kinds of jobs open to them. (Shop clerks in Rio start at about R$300 - 400 a month for a full-time job!)

 

In other words, in the context of the Brazilian economy the sauna boys can make a decent living at R$50 a session. By and large they are doing better than other people from similar backgrounds and educational attainments. Feeling sorry for them, or guilty, is misplaced.

 

Inflation in Brazil has been quite low for a considerable period of time. Prices do go up, but slowly. This is not like the bad old days of hyper-inflation, when prices literally increased hourly! Salaries and wages in Brazil are no longer indexed and have not been keeping pace with the current rate of inflation. Brazilians (particularly middle-class ones, who form the bulk of the sauna boys clients) are feeling really squeezed, particularly with the rise in gas prices. If foreign visitors overpay for things (and not just sauna boys) it encourages even more price rises that end up hurting average Brazilians.

 

Not only does it distort the local market if you overpay, it can easily brand you as a "mark," as other posters have pointed out. Next thing you know, you can end up like the guy who shelled out US$30,000 to the appreciative but unsentimental object of his affection! It also makes you an object of derision (at best) and contempt (at worst). Brazilians are accustomed to being very careful with their money, because most don't have a lot of it, and consider people who are careless with theirs to be fools!

 

To wind up this sermonette, DON'T OVERPAY!!! As I said in an earlier posting, the typical rate for a session at the saunas will inevitably increase, but only if the market will really support it and not because the guys try to jack up their prices artificially. Meanwhile, the going rate continues to be R$50 (plus tips). If the typical rate does go up, you can be sure you'll read about it right here on M4M! And when in Brazil (or Argentina or Thailand or wherever) do as the locals do, not as you would do at home!

 

Remember, if you meet someone you really like it's appropriate to invite them to meals or attractions they wouldn't ordinarily be able to afford on their own, or to bring or buy some nice gifts for them, like imported cologne, Polo shirts, or brand name athletic shoes. That way you can show your appreciation and regard without distorting the local market! And Brazilians love and appreciate presents in a way most of us from wealthier countries haven't since we were children.

 

And here endeth the lesson (yet again)! :+

[imrthr]

(1) >One American, this past year paid an average of $5,000./mo U.S. to one guy in the suanas over a 6month period ($30,000.)and >now a lot of the boys think that Americans are all wealthy, >somewhat stupid with their money, gullible queens! This particular >suana guy talked to me at the suana last month and referred to his

>American benefactor as "crazy"! Tomcal

 

(2) >Not only does it distort the local market if you overpay, it >can easily brand you as a "mark," as other posters have pointed >out. Next thing you know, you can end up like the guy who shelled >out US$30,000 to the appreciative but unsentimental object of his >affection! It also makes you an object of derision (at best) and >contempt (at worst). - Trilingual

 

___________________________________________________________________

 

In the year and one-half that I have read and posted on this forum, I found the bulk of information useful and accurate. Unquestionably, this board has helped me and others plan wonderful Brazilian vacations.

 

As I hold the forum in high regard, I believe posters should refrain from posting inaccurate information which could negatively influence readers and/or posters. Hence, I want to correct the misinformation reported in the above postings made by Tomcal and Trilingual.

 

Firstly, I am the person who is the subject of the two postings above. Tomcal’s statement is incorrect where he alleged that I paid “over this past year paid an average of $5,000./mo U.S. to one guy in the saunas over a six month period ($30,000.)”

 

Secondly, I did not meet the guy in question in a sauna and he did not work in the saunas during the period I was involved with him, although he works in one sauna currently. After I got to know the guy for a while, I visited his house and met his wife and child.

 

Thirdly, It is true that by some standards, I gave him a lot of money. However, the large sums of money were not for sex because the sex stopped shortly after we met. The money was given mainly because of his family who I got to know and like. With the money, the guy was able to buy things for his house and for his family that he could never have afforded without my help. I do not regret giving the money as it was merely a minuscule fraction of my net worth.

 

Fourthly, If Tomcal believes that because I helped this guy that “now a lot of the boys think that

Americans are all wealthy, somewhat stupid with their money gullible queens,” so be it. Furthermore, I doubt that the guy said or meant the disparaging remark about me that Tomcal stated in his posting.

 

Fifthly, I also give large sums to various charities because I believe in sharing and helping others. I never feel bad about helping someone who is less fortunate than I.

[trilingual]

To be honest, I'm not sure you're the person that Tomcal is referring to. I believe he is referring to someone else.

 

However, unless one of our readers is planning to adopt someone, I would repeat that it's unwise to make extravagant gifts. If, in your case, it's worked out and you've essentially become a member of this guy's family, that's one thing. (There are exceptions to all rules!) In the case I think Tomcal is referring to, my understanding is that things worked out differently.

 

By Brazilian standards, all of us are very wealthy. Some of us, of course, are wealthier than others. It's a problem. All of us who've become involved in real life here have ended up making gifts and providing help to guys we really like. But there's a golden mean in this, as there is in every other sphere of life. You can provide real help to a person without essentially underwriting their entire life. When you do that, it tends to rob them of incentive to continue working and striving to get ahead, and those are qualities that lower-income Brazilians need if they're going to survive and get ahead in life. If the guys come to expect that they can solve all their problems by ingratiating themselves with some gringo, you can be sure they'll all be trying to do exactly that, and there will go the sweetness of character that is one of the great attractions about Brazilians.

 

If you find yourself tempted to help a Brazilian guy you like, think carefully about what you're doing, why you're doing it, and how you're doing it. DON'T make the mistake of thinking you can buy someone's friendship or affection, because that doesn't really work in Brazil, just like it usually fails to work elsewhere. On the other hand, if you can communicate well with the object of your interest, and find out what his plans and goals in life are, and you can help him move in that direction both with advice as well as some financial assistance, chances are you can build a good, mutually respectful friendship and know that you've helped someone along the way towards improving their life and their future prospects.

[mattgunther]

50 reals for 30 minutes in Brazil is equivilent to $200/hour in the U.S.

 

According to the CIA world fact book Brazil's GDP is about $1 trillion and there are 170 million people. If half of the people are children, which seems likely in a country like Brazil, this means the average salary is about $14,000 per year (this is consistent with a per capita income of $7,000/year which I think is about right). At an exchange rate of 2.5 reals to the dollar this is 35,000 reals per year or 17.50 reals per hour for a 40 hour work week. So if we are paying 50 reals for a half hour with a sauna boy, thats about 6 times the average wage.

 

That not that different from the U.S. The average wage in the U.S. is about $40,000 per year or $20 per hour. So the average escort in the U.S. gets about 10 times the average wage.

[mattgunther]

>On the other hand, if you can communicate

>well with the object of your interest, and find out what his

>plans and goals in life are, and you can help him move in that

>direction both with advice as well as some financial

>assistance, chances are you can build a good, mutually

>respectful friendship and know that you've helped someone

>along the way towards improving their life and their future

>prospects.

 

 

I think this is well said and agree wholeheartedy. Of course communicating with someone and helping them realize their goals is difficult. It is a lot easier to just shower them with money or expensive goods. But its a lot less likely to help them in the end.

[CT Dick]

>At the saunas I usually cite R$50 to the boys who usually wind

>up with R$70 or $R80 in the end; I always offer to get them

>food and drink if they desire. Luckily, my guys have settled

>for juice, or a liquor drink instead of the exorbitant Red

>Bull,but if a guy had wanted me to buy it for him, I more than

>likely would have...

 

So, rather than paying $R50 plus tip, drinks, and food, should we pay $R70 as a flat rate and forget the extras?

 

Dick

[Guest Tomcal_]

I purposedly kept the identity of the individual anoyomous, but Three Americans heard this particular sauna guy say repeatedly "he's crazy!" and laugh. So there is no doubt about my recollection of the conversation. Plus he told the same story to another M4M after I left Rio! This guy is back working in the sauna, the things the money paid for certainly upgraded his lifestyle for awhile, but made NO life changes for him. The American involved tried this with another escort with the same Non-results! Again, doing/buying things to help out the guys is great, I have done it...but never forget, these guys are with you because you are paying, if you dont' believe that, than the next time you go to Rio, tell them you have no money but you know they enjoy hanging out with you and see how long it takes them to hit the door!!

[+ Lucky]

ALthough I agree wholeheartedly with Tomcal, I found it difficult to resist the guys asking for 100 when I was in Rio. Not a single guy asked for 50. I have never liked negotiating in any language and I am sure a lot of guys play off of that. So I said no to several, but yes to a few.

But you don't have to go to Rio to learn how fast a guy hits the door when the money goes!

[rapaz7]

> "Paying the sauna boys less than 70 Reais is

>taking great advantage of the poverty of their country and

>borders almost on slavery."

 

In my opinion you should refrain from making statements like this. If tourists stopped coming to Rio and spending money in this way do you think the Brazilians would be better off? They will shout as loud as Americans to bring it back because it gives them an income that they would not otherwise have. Some Brazilians are even lucky enough to find their way up here to the US through this type of thing. I would hardly call it slavery.

[rapaz7]

Hey TC I think that you are being just a little bit harsh here. Every relationship we have anywhere in life is some kind of exchange. In other words you and the other person are both getting something that you want. The guys whose interests are 100% money in Rio are the ones I do not want to spend any time with. I am not saying that these guys fall in love with you but if they do not return any good feelings and only ring the cash register I will show them the door faster than they can go for it.

[VaHawk]

>In my opinion you should refrain from making statements like

>this. If tourists stopped coming to Rio and spending money in

>this way do you think the Brazilians would be better off?

>They will shout as loud as Americans to bring it back because

>it gives them an income that they would not otherwise have.

>Some Brazilians are even lucky enough to find their way up

>here to the US through this type of thing. I would hardly

>call it slavery.

 

Good. Great. I agree, pay whatever the going rate is in the third world country that you are currently engaged in exploring as a "sexual tourist"! And, DON'T even try to argue that the majority of you are not "sexual tourists" that are going to those third world countries mainly to engage in cheap sexual encounters, as that is ALL that you post about on your ventures to those third world countries! And YES, IMO, you are enslaving these people, into prostitution, when there is no other outlet that would generate that much money in their economy!

 

Since they all recognize your reason for visiting, shouldn't they be applauded for their demand for higher fees from the GRINGOS? Sheesh, $25 American for a sexual encounter vs $17 an encounter is DEFINITELY grounds for REVOLT by all those American and/or European sexual tourists. I don't see any of you, protesting that the locals, who have MUCH LESS income than you, paying the same rates currently as you do!

 

Perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, the boys will charge the going rate for the locals, and CHARGE the GRINGOS more? Why not?

[trilingual]

At least in Brazil the guys involved in the sex industry aren't "enslaved" in any way. They're merely taking advantage of their natural gifts (and Brazilians, like everyone else, aren't all born equal in looks or endowment) to engage in a LEGAL income-producing activity. Almost all the guys work for themselves, not for an agent or pimp. They come and go at will. Some have regular day jobs, others don't but hope to have one before too long. Some use their earnings just to party or finance their drug habits. Others save to pay for their education, to help support their families, to build/buy a house, or to open a business of their own. None, to my knowledge, have been forced into prostitution. Many might prefer to be in another line of work, but almost all of us, at some time in our lives, have had to take a job we didn't like in order to earn a living. Some might argue that's slavery, but it doesn't meet any of the common definitions. In Brazil, at least, many of the guys LIKE what they're doing, and have worked in the business for years. It's a way of having sex with other men while rationalizing to themselves that they're not "really gay," they're just doing it for the money. Or it's a way to deal with their bisexuality in a country where bisexuality is rampant but little understood or analyzed. Needless to say, that's a far cry from enslavement.

 

In any case, as long as a visitor is paying the fair market rate for escort services, he isn't exploiting anyone, even if he is taking advantage of the differences between his home economy and the one in Brazil. But that applies in all matters, not just escort fees. Hotels, meals, transportation, shopping, real estate, medical care, etc. are almost all much cheaper in Brazil than in our home countries. The idiotic argument in the previous posting, carried to its illogical conclusion, condemns ALL tourism in poorer countries. By its definition, all tourists from richer countries are exploiting hotel owners, restaurant owners, tour guides, shopping mall operators, subway and bus systems, health care providers, etc. in poorer countries because they charge less than do similar businesses in their home countries. I'm sure the chambers of commerce, hotel associations and official tourism boards in countries like Brazil and Thailand and the Dominican Republic DON'T subscribe to the crackpot theories expounded in the previous posting.

 

And as for being a sexual tourist, there is nothing wrong about it as long as the traveler isn't breaking the law, which I daresay the preachy previous poster has done in his own country when he's engaged the services of a sex worker in a city other than his own! After all, prostitution is illegal in all but one state in the U.S., including the poster's own state. In most countries, though, commercial sex is NOT illegal as long as it's between adult partners. Traveling to such a country for the purpose of having legal sex is no more illegal or immoral than it was for Americans to travel to Mexico or Canada during Prohibition so they could have a legal drink.

 

So just ignore the phony moralist behind the curtain and continue to enjoy your travels, as long as you don't break the law in the countries you visit and pay the fair market rates for the goods and services you buy there!

[imrthr]

>The American involved tried this with another escort

>with the same Non-results!

 

_______________________________________________________

 

There Tomcal goes again with his misinformation.

 

Even if the sauna guy in question did make a disparaging remark as Tomcal stated, the sauna guy made the statements because I stopped giving him money.

 

Secondly, Tomcal’s statement where he wrote “The American involved tried this with another escort with the same Non-result!”

 

I did not have a similar involvement with another sauna guy as Tomcal alleged. I cannot imagine where Tomcal obtained his “facts.” The only long-term involvement I had in Brazil was with the sauna guy discussed in his post.

 

Sure, it's human nature to talk and gossip about other people and often, in the

process, to get most of it wrong. It's just a part of living in a society. However, this board is supposed to be a board where accurate information is exchanged. It is not meant to be a forum for false and misleading malicious gossip.

 

A friend sent the following to me which I believe is an appropriate response to Tomcal’s postings.

 

“People of "low" intelligence talk about people; people of "medium" intelligence talk

about events; people of "high" intelligence talk about ideas. When one associates primarily

with people who talk about people, one easily--maybe

inevitably--assumes their level and becomes a participant.”

[+ Axiom2001]

It took a lot for me not to write today. I think the originator of the initial thread had NOT intended to resurrect an old topic which has been addressed previously (and at length here). He merely reported what he thought he'd gleaned from a sauna boy at Club 117 recently and wanted some type of clarification.

 

The beginning responses to his query addressed the topic; some of the latter ones veered away from it. I think if the content that's addressed in the last few responses should be addressed in a NEW and different thread! Do you now agree? :-)

[Guest Tomcal_]

Axiom, good advise! bottom line, anyone can do/pay whatever they want, it's there money! Whether it changes the market dyamics in Rio, I guess we will all see soon enough.

[Guest tommy15]

Those who would confuse prostitution with philanthropy

are fools.

[imrthr]

x