Gay Marriage-Your Thoughts Please....

[Guest biga]

Morning guys,thought i would throw this into the mix and see what comes out,is it worth going through a ceremony or if you are in a LTR is it ok just to be as you are,have any of you actually gone through a blessing or other ceremony,its something i think i would like to do at some point i was thinking about it a lot over the last day or so as its my 10th anniversary in three months time and i would like to do something special to mark the occasion(Hi D hint,hint )what do you guys think is it a waste of time or a valid thing to do.Andy

[Guest Charon]

While my circumstances are different, I expected the ceremony to be only a celebration of the relationship, and not to change it. I was delighted to find that the ceremony deepened and enriched the relationship in ways that I hadn't begun to imagine.

 

Two thumbs up.

[+ deej]

Andy, I'm not familiar enough with laws on your side of the pond to comment but over here "partner rights" it's a big issue.

 

There have been instances of long-time partners not being able to visit a dieing loved one in the hospital because they are not legally family. There have been property disputes because the partner has no legal claim.

 

It's far more than just about "Honey I love you". Gay unions have far reaching legal ramifications.

 

The "Honey I love you" part is nice, and I'd love to do it some day, but it's about far more than that.

[trilingual]

If you've been together that long, and expect to remain together, it makes sense to marry someplace where it has legal effect, like Vermont. Beyond the romantic aspect of making the commitment, marriage will provide you an array of legal protections in case anything happens to either of you. And, if the relationship should end, it also provides tried and true rules for dividing assets, property, etc. It's way better than being in legal limbo.

[Guest biga]

Deej,the rights for same sex relationships are pretty non existant in England as well,the only country that recognises same sex marriage as legal is Holland but one of the partners has to be a Dutch citizen.

I have read things about EU laws that will make it easier for same sex couples to have equal rights but we are talking at least 5 years down the line,the one chink of light we do have is the Human Rights Bill introduced in 2000 makes it easier to fight for equal rights and that you dont have to go to the EU to fight your case.Anyway whats it like in Vermont in January . Andy

[Guest Gentle Dude]

As I understand it, aside from the Netherlands, other European countries like Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Germany and maybe France, gives legal status to same-sex partnership. There was an article in the San Francisco Chronicle in August of this year wherein a gay couple was married in Germany, the first in that country.

 

Check out the link:

http://www.sfgate:com/cgi=bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/08/02/MN5019DTL

 

Since the passage of the domestic partnership bill in San Francisco, there have been a number of "wedding ceremonies" performed here. It was even televised on the local news when they had several gay couples exchange their vows by City Hall.

 

Although it's cold here in January, it's a very romantic place to have your ceremony. You can even have your reception at a Hornblower Cruise at night which takes you all over the SF Bay.

 

GD

[+ deej]

You'll freeze your fuzzy bits off in Vermont in January. :-( And one of the partners has to be a Vermont citizen for the marriage to be recognized.

 

I think you'd much prefer Hawaii that time of year, anyway. ;-)

[trilingual]

Actually, the marriage is legal in Vermont regardless of where the partners live, which means that if the partners divorce, at least for the time being, the laws of Vermont would apply. At some point there will probably be a judicial test of whether the provisions in the Constitution requiring the states to recognize the legal acts of other states will apply to Vermont marriages. If they are held to be valid, then people married in Vermont will be legally married everywhere in the U.S., and if they reside in another state and seek to divorce, the laws of their state of residence will apply.

[+ deej]

That's sorta cool news and sorta not.

 

So you're saying a marriage in Vermont is legal but challenges may be evaluated in the state of residence?

 

Why bother going to Vermont? You'll still freeze your fuzzy bits in January, and won't really have anything to show for it.

 

You could just have Pastor Brown at the local church perform a commitment ceremony and get the same value.

[Guest LATINLUVR]

what happens if you marry a same sex partner from another country..do they then become a u.s. citizen as they do in a straight marriage...just curious..thnx

[Bilbo]

Got news this morning that the governor of California signed a law last night that gives legally registered gay couples in that state rights only second to Hawaii and Vermont. And just because my bro-in-law's state is very cold in Winter, doesn't mean that they don't have some other excellent seasons, like Fall with all those maple trees, for those who don't like to snow ski.

[trilingual]

If someone just wants a symbolic event, they can do it wherever. If they want a marriage with legal effect, they need to go to Vermont, if they're in the U.S. At present Vermont is the only place in the U.S. where a civil union is identical to marriage in everything but name. Whether such civil unions stand up in other states is still an unanswered question, but they should be valid, because they are the official action of a state.

 

Unfortunately, immigration law is Federal, not state, and the U.S. government doesn't recognize same sex marriages for purposes of immigration (or anything else). There is currently proposed legislation in Congress to change the immigration law so U.S. citizens/residents can sponsor their same-sex partners. Unfortunately, that may not go anywhere anytime soon, thanks to the sudden interest in tightening rather than easing restrictive U.S. immigration laws. If you feel strongly about the issue, and you're American, write your Senators and Representatives, especially if you personally have a story to tell about how current U.S. law is keeping you and your partner apart.

[Guest BenDover]

I've been in the same relationship for 22 years. We have often discussed having some kind of "blessing" or "celebration" of our relationship. We used to laugh about it, actually, and then say "Naw" because it seemed that every couple we ever knew who had some kind of ceremony broke up within the year. It was our reasoning for never buying good china.

I'm not sure that marriage, by definition, is what gay people should spend their time, energy and resources attempting to get. I think, by definition, marriage is pretty much a closed case for a man and a woman. I think gay people should create their own definition and name for it and continue to seek the exact same legal status as non-gay couples. Let marriage be for non-gay people and let (fill in the blank) be for gay people.

[Guest biga]

Ben makes some interesting points but what would the "blank"be,a commitment ceremony,a union, a taking of vows,a declaration of love,but surely thats what marriage is about already,just because it's a term used by straight people doesn't mean that it cant mean the same for a same sex union as well,as other people have said the thing should be getting equal rights in the eyes of the law and making the fact that you wish to spend your life with someone the most important thing whether it be gay or straight.

[Guest BenDover]

From my perspective, it is a semantics thing for the benefit of the narrow non-gay community. They get all fucked up by the idea that marriage might be something bigger or more inclusive than what they describe it as. The institution of marriage is so embattled here in the US with over 50% of marriages failing in divorce, that the idea of granting the same status to gays and lesbians is just more than they can handle.

I've been in this relationship a long time, and it is accepted and acknowledged by virtually everyone we know, from family to neighbors, to co-workers to the check-out girl at the grocery store. We have entangled our lives legally through wills, powers-of-attorneys, mortgages, joint bank accounts and shared retirement investments. Our doctors know who we are and when either one of us has been hospitalized, we walked into the setting as though there was no question about who was who. No one dare challenge us.

It would be very difficult for anyone to challenge the fact that my main squeeze and I are anything other than a unit. Yes, a nice wedding shower, a groom's dinner, a wedding cake, a tuxedo, an announcement in the society pages of the paper would have been cool, and the legal document would be nice, but it ain't going to change the fact that we are a couple no matter what.

I know that not the whole country is this way, and as soon as I head east and cross the Cascades, it can change dramatically.

So, I say let the hets have their marriage. And with all the creativity and original thinking that has been borne in the gay community, let us describe and name what our own relationships are. Ones that are open, honest, loving, nurturing and wonderful places to grow into the full human beings all of us were meant to be.