ESCORTS DON'T ESCORT FOR THE $$ AND CLIENTS DON'T SEE ESCORTS FOR THE SEX

[Guest wildboy]

Yes, I am new to this site. However, please know that I have nothing against escorts or those that see escorts. Matter of fact, I have seen a few escorts in my life. And yes, I did think this would be a good topic. I think that any escorts need to look inwards and determine why they escort and the likewise need to understand why they escort. Why do I think I am very knowledgeable. The reason is that an escort that I had seen for a few years decided to consult a leading thearpist to obtain greater insight into why he escorts. Throughout his thearpy I have been able to look inside from the outside and learn a lot. I have not only been able to learn a lot about why people see escorts/prostitues but why escrts do what they do. And the bottom line is that escorts do not escort for many and clients do not see escorts for sex. There are much deeper reasons and I think Patrick Carnes would help both understand what why they do what they do if they would read the two books. They certainly opened by eyes as I think I was as blind as many to what is actually going on. Every gay man can learn to have healthy relationships and healthy sexual relationships. Both can do it without engaging in escorting or prostitution.

 

AND GUYS, LOOK AT THE CONSEQUNCES CAREFULLY NOW AND DO NOT WAIT UNTIL IT HAPPEN TO YOU. GO READ THE BOOKS BEFORE DRAWING THE WRONG CONSCLUSION.

[+ Gar1eth]

>AND GUYS, LOOK AT THE CONSEQUNCES CAREFULLY NOW AND DO NOT

>WAIT UNTIL IT HAPPEN TO YOU. GO READ THE BOOKS BEFORE DRAWING

>THE WRONG CONSCLUSION.

 

 

I think this was an interesting topic--so it was ok to bring up herefor discussion I freely admit that my life/psychology is not exactly normal. Do I think I am the only one who has problems, no. Do I think everyone else has problems--well, that's more difficult--who among us--totally perfect.

 

 

But if you think what you read in the book is new or startling you are wrong. While I haven't read the book--I can probably pretty much predict many of the things it says--I think many people can.

 

Gman

[Rick Munroe]

>Have I mentioned how much I love you lately?

 

The feeling's mutual, Rod.

 

http://www.mattscdsingles.com/acatalog/rod%20have%20i%20told.jpg

[Bilbo]

I had the feeling that this was a case of OP having been personally affected or having watched a dear, close friend being personally affected. Now, it looks like I was right there.

And there can be some bad histories out there. It is not for everyone. It's not even for everyone who thinks it is for them. Let me assure you, OP, that the sad problems which happened to your friend are not going to happen to all of us.

We aren't all in this for the same reason. We don't all have people we are hiding it from, any more than we are/have been closeted about being gay in the first place. You really are generalizing too far from what happened to one man. I don't think that the mental councelor that worked with your friend would think that it would be the same truth for everyone. Or, if so, I wouldn't think that that councelor would be the right councelor for everyone. I almost said "anyone" but it sounds like I need to respect the help he/she was able to give your friend.

After an escort matures into his job - and if he doesn't fairly quickly, he should leave it fairly quickly, I suppose - the best ones will not rely on the sessions to meet their personal needs. They are in the session for what the client needs, like many other professionals.

I allowed my second husband to force me to go to anger management classes. Turns out that the teacher didn't think that I needed them. Then, much later, I went to an Annonymous group - one for people who were addicted to caregiving and to putting the other first too often. There's a word for it. I forget it right now. Turns out I didn't need that, either. It is unfortunate that your friend didn't realize that he needed SAA much sooner, but I am one of those here who don't need that, either.

My blessings on you, and I hope that you and your friend are blessed and comforted.

"Re-examine all you have been told at school or church, or in any books, and dismiss whatever insults your soul>" - Walt Whitman

[Rick Munroe]

>I think that any escorts

>need to look inwards and determine why they escort

 

And doctors should look inward to determine why they practice medicine, and performers should look inward to examine why they entertain, and dry cleaners should look inward to figure out why they couldn't find your pants. Yes, we can all be introspective and look inward and examine why we do what we do. Personally, I'm not going to find anything more than a love of what I do and a great sense of fulfillment when I've made someone feel sexy or just feel good.

[buckguy]

People have tried to have a reasonable discussion and debate regarding whether or not we have the apparently inevitable sex addiction that drives escorts and their clients. Dr. Cranes appears to be a backdoor clinician and a book of case histories doesn't represent anything other than a bunch of case histories coming to a clinic that claims to specialize in addictions (but does it in an oddly circuitous way). have a specialized practice, you're going to get people who sound like they fit your model. They aren't a representative sample of escorts or clients seeking treatment, let alone a representative sample of escorts and their clients. Perhaps, after Wildboy recovers from his recovery, he'll be ready to join the kind of discussion the rest of us have been having. Submitting to the authority of somebody's book isn't exactly the way to engage a conversation. A number of people have disclosed rather personal things and all Wildboy can do is tell us to read some books which don't appear relevant to anyone else's life circumstances.

 

 

As for Carnes: http://www.pinegrovetreatment.com/patrick-carnes.html

 

He's the executive dircetor of a psychiatric facility in Mississippi. His PhD is in counselor education & organizational behavior. In other words, he's someone who went through the backdoor to be a clinical psychologist. He probably couldn't get into a reputable program (even at place like Brown, where he received a PhD, counselor education is a filed where anyone can get a degree). If he has any kind of license to see patients, it's probably because he's in a state that will license anybody--in most states, someone with his credentials could not be licensed as anything except maybe a counselor, which would not permit him to get insurance reimbursements except perhaps in substance abuse treatment. He has an award in his name from some obscure sexuality organization.

[Guest wildboy]

Thanks for your response. However, I do not think the information I shared has naything to do with the experience I have had with a friend that escorts. Matter of fact, he was a well grounded escort who was very successful in what he did. He actually escorted for over 6 years. While I drew some of my information from his sessions with his thearpist, I actually began to look further into why an escort escorts and why a client sees an escort. It was then I I found Patrick Carnes books as well as several other books by well known authors. Therefore, coupled with hearing what the thearpist shared with my frined as well as raeding several books that deal with sexuial addiction as well as escorts who escort and clients who see escorts, I have been able to determine the reasons and also the "hidden" consequences. Therefore, please do not think that my views are slated or influenced by the experience of one escort. On the other hand, they are based on talking to several escorts as well as raeding several books and listening to what the thearpist had to say to this escort.

 

Patrick Carnes is the foremost expert in this area. His work is acknowledged and accepted on a world-wide basis. I do not think that his premises and conclusions are incorrect.

 

IF YOU WILL READ HIS BOOKS YOU WILL SEE THAT HE ACTUALLY HAD OVER 2,000 GAY MEN AND WOMEN PARTICIPATE THROUGH WHICH HE BASED HIS WORK.

 

I THINK ONE AREA THAT NOBODY HAS TOUCHED ON IS THE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES OF THE ACTIONS OF BOTH AN ESCORT AND CLIENT. AS I HAVE SAID EARLIER, BOTH ESCORTS AND CLIENTS ARE BLIND TO THE CONSEQUENCES UNTIL AFTER THE HAVE OCCURED.

 

THEY SIMPLY SAY, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN TO ME.

 

In closing, I am sure that there are a few clients and escorts that are well grounded emotionally and mentally that can handle all aspects of what they do, however, based on what I have learned those are few and far between.

[Guest wildboy]

Rick, I think you are overlooking one importanmt area- escorting is illegal. It is a form of prostitution. In essence, you are just a high paid prostitute instead of a low paid prostitute. The bottom line is that you are a prostitute and it is illegal.

 

Like I said earlier, you are overlooking the severe consequenes of being an escort. STD's, AID's, losing your job, being arrested, even being killed by a client, not to mention the emotional and mental stress of the job.

 

Also, many escorts come from broken families, are not educated beyond high school and are looking for quick money. Many or so depressed thatt hey do not know what they are doing and older men, who possess money, can take advantage of their sitiation.

 

In closoing, Rick, the bottom line is that you are simply a a prostitute and the hing that you have in common is that all prostitutes bring sexual pleasure to the one that they see. If this is what you want to do in life- go for it. And, should you make a mistake, understandt he consequences.

 

The purpose of this topic was to see if escorts and clients could remove there blinders and truly see what they are doiing to themselves as well as for each to ask why they do it.

[Bilbo]

I think that if you look through the archives at other discussions, you will see that we very well know that we are prostitutes and that what we are doing is illegal. I myself explained the circumstances of my arrest on this board enough times that I got tired of it and refused to do it again.

As long as you are reading books, therefore, try Walden Pond. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it immoral. It doesn't make it something that it is unthinkable to do. It does make it a thing that you should be prepared to pay society for if you do it. Yes, there is that.

You know of course that there are a number of countries in which prostitution is fully legal? And others where it is legal to do it, but illegal to advertise it? Why is the current state of our country correct?

(BTW, the U.S. is not the only country represented on this conversation board, by a long shot.)

Please quit shouting at us. (You do know that the use of all caps is considered shouting and very rude when in an online conversation?)

Prostitution has a long and, in some places, very honored tradition. It was honored in ancient Greece. It was honored in India. The Kama Sutra gives directions for giving the best massage, professional or not, and it includes directions for the blow job part of it. If you do not honor it as a profession, you are in somewhat the wrong place on the web. If it upsets you so to associate with prostitutes, well, then, bye!

I acknowledge that this part of our lifestyles is not for everyone. As Saint Paul wrote, what is a sin for person A is not a sin for person B, necessarily. However, person B should not try to tempt person A to do it. If you do not accept or acknowledge my blessing, please at least do not put me in the near position of sin by listening in when I discuss with others of like mind things like how the h. we might work towards legalizing prostitution in this great, democracy known as the US.

[KMEM]

None are so blind as those who will not see. I think that applies to you, wldboy. You certainly have a right to your opinion but you are preaching here to experienced sex workers who, unlike being gay, have chosen their jobs. Sweeping statements are just general characterizations and, especially when dealing with the psyche, unlikely to be universal truths (whatever those might be). One size does not fit all.

 

Younger people who drink, do drugs and don't pay attention to a life purpose, whether they be gay, straight, escorts, clients or other may have problems. Older people may have problems for the same reasons. That does not make them sex addicts or abused as children. An age old question is what is more influential, genetics or environment? I think the answer is, it depends or both. Again, the questions delas with the psyche and those claiming to have complete and perfect answers are suspect.

 

The real reason I posted was because the initial question was perhaps innocent enough, although naive and insulting, but it has sunk to recrimination without courtesy. There were several thoughtful and enlightening posts in the middle.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[+ Gar1eth]

Wildboy is getting more strident with each post. His 1st posting discussed wanting to see what kind of discussion would ensue. But as the discussion goes on--he seems to be getting more upset that people aren't going to give up either escorting or hiring.

 

I accept that hiring is not the safest thing to do from a disease standpoint--neither is picking up someone in a bar. For now if I ever want to have sex--this is the only way for me to accomplish it.

 

Wildboy's responses--have a ring of the "True Believer" to them. He has discovered some new information that he did not know before. The information fits in perfectly with his views and experiences. He wants to share the knowledge with the world--knowing it will make as big a change in their lives as it did his. World fails to acknowledge "new revelation" True Believer becomes upset.

 

Again I think his information may often be true----just not always and not all the time--but haranguing people is not the way to change minds.

 

Gman

[buckguy]

Your experience is your experience, but it's impossible to generalize it very far. Ditto, the experience of someone who has all the earmarks of being a quack, but promotes himself as an "expert". You've disrespected the willingness of people to disclose difficult aspects of their lives and doing that viciates any credibility you might have in a "conversation" on this topic.

[Rick Munroe]

As Barbra Streisand (as Doris Wilgis) says in my all-time favorite movie, The Owl and the Pussycat, "I am not a prostitute! I am a model and an actress!"

 

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1393/4350_0003.jpg

[Mike73Coug]

Wow, lots of responses. No doubt some escorts and clients have the issues described by the origional poster, but I doubt the vast majority due, I certainly don't.

 

Like some of the responders, I have never married but didn't accept being gay until I was 40; I am now 55. I work in agriculture and live in more rual environs, but not an area devoid of social interaction. When I travel to the big city, a couple of times a year I treat myself to some sensual adventure.

 

I like to chat with the escort online before meeting, and generally we visit online after, so in some respects, limited to be sure, it can be a more real experience then an online quickie hookup or a drunken bar encounter. It also allows one to have the fantasy experience of getting together with the type of guy one wouldn't always get to in the real world. In my experience with hookups, usually the other guy just wants to get off and I'm the prop to help with that. With a good escort I can enjoy more playfullness.

Though good sex is always interactive, with an escort I can relax more and be pampered, as it's the escort's job to show me a great time. Also, not having regular sexual encounters (hardly putting me in the category of an addict, lol) a skilled escort can show me some new tricks and experiences.

 

I have seen 8 different escorts over the years, most of them more than once. I've reviewed 2 of those here. 5 have now changed "careers", that I know of. I still visit online, or in person, now and again with 4 of those. They were all doing it for the money, being either students who wanted more than the typical near minimum wage a student job provided, or, living in the higher cost of living big city, supplementing their day job. None of them were so desperate that that needed to turn a trick to pay their rent. In the limited extent that I knew them, I would say they all had sex drives at the higher end of the spectrum, though hardly in the category of addiction. Some of them would say that getting off (as well as meeting interesting people) was one of the things they liked about the work. They were all socialable and cute enough that they could get laid regularly without escorting.

 

As to risk, which has been discussed here before, I have given considerable thought to that. In my opnion playing safely with a quality escort (a subjective definition, but the guys I've been with haven't worked in the porn industry, worked the streets, nor were drug users) has about the same risk as an online quicky hookup or a drunken bar encounter. As meeting the right guy for a relationship has so far eluded me (I have dated), and I am not up for permanant celibacy, I'm willing to take some calculated risks; kind of like when I fly, go rock climbing, work with cows, operate machinery, or handle pathalogical organisms in the laboratory. Living life fully, but not recklessly, has risks, no matter how careful one is.

 

Those are my thoughts.

[Guest wildboy]

This could or could not turn out to be an interestingtopic, but the truth is that escorts don't escort for money nor sex and client's do not see escorts for sex. Instaed, both escorts and clinets have deep pyschologicial issues that each is dealing with in life. Two excellent books that shed light on this are by Patrick Carnes. One is Out of the Shadows-Understanding Sexual Addiction and the other is Don't Call it Love.

 

In each book it is shown that the escort probably suffers from sexual addiction and in most cases the client has a sexual addiction problem as well.

 

In addiction, the need for both to go out lookign for sex- the escort with the clinet and the clinet with the escort is usually brought forth by some incident in childhood. It could be the fact that it they were abused sexually as a child by a relative-family member or friend or they were actually raped. In addition, it could be that they were reared by too much discipline in the family. The bottomline is that there has been some event in their life that occured for both the escort and the client to do what they are doing.

 

Escorting is just a form on annoymous sex and the primary difference is the escort is being paid- Escorts are probably lookign for annoyous sex when they are not being paid. Escorts find that it is hard to stop escorting. It is not for the money, instaed they are looking for a different end to an event that occured in their life.

 

Many escorts want to please others very badly as they were never able to please there father or some other person in their family or life.

 

Both escorts and clients need help to chnage their life style and in many cases this type behavior leads to loss of job, getting AIDS, being arrested, going to jail, failing in relationships, etc. Many escorts suffer from depression and really don't care about the above.

 

Be interested in the conversation that comes from this information.

[Guest wildboy]

It is growing more obvious from the various responses that both escorts and clients are blinder by their actions as well as the consequences. You say escorts escort for the money and because of their high sex drive it is necessary to escort rather than engage in a healthy relationhip that involves healthy sex. You say that clients can have all the sex with others that they desire, however, in that text the other person just wants to get off. On the other hand, when you see an escort you are ablr to be pampered because you are paying for it.

 

One escort in here is try to convince others that since prostitution is legal in some nations, that removes all other elements that have been discussed. Especially the consequences of the actions.

 

Others say they know the consequences of their actions and are willing to roll the dice.

 

How many of you will take a gun will one bullet in the chamber and pull the trigger?

 

Well each time an escort sees a client and each time a client sees an escort, you are in essence putting a gun to your head with one or more bullets in the chamber and pulling the trigger.

 

And you know, one of these times, you are going to pull the trigger and the bullet comes out.

 

It could come out in the form of a simple STD.

 

It could come out in the form of AIDS>

 

It come come out and you be arrested by an undercover cop.

 

It could result in the loss of a job.

 

It could come out in the loss of a relationship.

 

It could come out and you spend time in jail.

 

I have said it before and will say it again, whu not try to find a healthy relationship with healthy sex.

 

Prostitution is not a healthy relationship not is prostitution healthy sex.

 

All of the escorts who say they just do it for the money are being untruthful to themselves, their are indeed underlying psychological issues and likewise all of the clients who see escorts have deep psychological issues.

 

And finally, contrary to one post, Patrick arnes is the leading expert on this issue in the world and it writing are accepted by all.

 

Take the blinders off and face the issue rather than hide behind your very disfunctional life.

[Guest wildboy]

Rick, you are clearly a low life prostitute and are unwilling to acknowledge your disfuntional life. Tek the blinders off and look at yourself. You need to go see a thearpist.

[KMEM]

wildboy: Is English your first language? Logic certainly isn't your area of expertise.

 

Best regards,

 

KMEM

[AdamSmith]

>Dr. Cranes

>appears to be a backdoor clinician and a book of case

>histories doesn't represent anything other than a bunch of

>case histories coming to a clinic that claims to specialize in

>addictions (but does it in an oddly circuitous way). have a

>specialized practice, you're going to get people who sound

>like they fit your model. They aren't a representative sample

>of escorts or clients seeking treatment, let alone a

>representative sample of escorts and their clients.

...

>His PhD is in counselor education &

>organizational behavior. In other words, he's someone who went

>through the backdoor to be a clinical psychologist. He

>probably couldn't get into a reputable program (even at place

>like Brown, where he received a PhD, counselor education is a

>filed where anyone can get a degree).

 

After this thread appeared I asked a couple of acquaintances -- one an M.D. psychiatrist, the other a Ph.D. psychologist, and both members (one a former officer) of the Boston Psychoanalytic Society and Institute -- about Carnes. They knew of him. Their assessments were pretty much as surmised above.

[Guest TBinCHI]

>wildboy: Is English your first language? Logic certainly

>isn't your area of expertise.

 

Indeed. It seems that wildboy's expertise lays in being a deceitful jerk with an agenda. Maybe he's Ted Haggard in disguise - after being "cured" of his homosexuality by weeks of intense "prayer", he's now redeeming himself in the eyes of his flock by going after the sinners who led him astray... Just a thought.

[+ Oliver]

"Pure Bull Shit"

 

I am now rather sorry now that I posted a serious reply to this thread. It is obvious that “wildboy” has a one track mind on the subject of “clinets” and escorts, and only began this thread to spout his vituperative comments, not to invite a lively and civil discussion. He is the one who needs to “take the blinders off”, as he repeats … and repeats … and repeats. As another poster commented, he becomes more strident and insulting with each post he makes. And as has been noted in the past, when one of his ilk is unable to respond with logical and reasoned arguments, he resorts to name calling, etc.

[AdamSmith]

>I am not addicted to sex, but I am addicted to

>TV-shows-on-DVD.

 

Clearly a displacement of symptoms originating in the sexual realm. Your very denial of your sex addiction proves you have it!

 

>I don't ever look for "annoyous" sex;

 

I would think it comes looking for you. Some of us clients can be pretty annoyous. And persistous.

 

>I don't even like Chaucer anyway.

>http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=annoyous

 

Actually (even seriously) Chaucer is one of Western literature's paragons of mental health around sex issues...

 

...Thus swived was the carpentere's wife,

For all his keeping and his jealousy;

And Absolon hath kiss'd her nether eye;

And Nicholas is scalded in the tout (anus).

This tale is done, and God save all the rout.

-- The Miller's Tale

[AdamSmith]

>I am not addicted to sex, but I am addicted to

>TV-shows-on-DVD.

 

Clearly a displacement of symptoms originating in the sexual realm. Your very denial of your sex addiction proves you have it!

 

>I don't ever look for "annoyous" sex;

 

I would think it comes looking for you. Some of us clients can be pretty annoyous. And persistous.

 

>I don't even like Chaucer anyway.

>http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=annoyous

 

Actually (even seriously) Chaucer is one of Western literature's paragons of mental health around sex issues...

 

...Thus swived was the carpentere's wife,

For all his keeping and his jealousy;

And Absolon hath kiss'd her nether eye;

And Nicholas is scalded in the tout (anus).

This tale is done, and God save all the rout.

-- The Miller's Tale

[Bilbo]

Or, Rick, as Glenda said to the WWW, let's you, me and Maverick (my other half of nearly nine years, as you know) and Derek, if you can get him to do something so frivolous and pointless as to say this to wildy,

Teehee giggle, Begone! You have no power here!

 

(If anyone has a pic of Glenda, you might put it in answer to this. I don't and don't really have the expertise if I did.) LOL.

[+ newatthis]

RE: "Pure Bull Shit"

 

On the other hand, if you ignore the OP, there's a lot of material worth reading.