Escort Fees

[SAdler]

>Productive of what? According to your last post to me, you

>seem to think this discussion is a waste of your time.

 

No. I’m just saying it’s a waste of time because the fact is those responding and refuting me AREN’T escorts so they can’t possibly be making statements that have any value in the topic of whether or not escorts have the right to feel insulted.

>

>Who told you that you have to respond at all? Did the escorts

>of America elect you their representative to speak for them on

>this issue? If not, why do you think you have an obligation

>to talk about this if you really don't WANT to?

 

It’s amusing to pass the time waiting for clients and on the rare occasion I’m bored here. I’m also a fan of multi-tasking. This was I can watch Jerry Hall and her eye-candy then take out my aggressions why I’m not fucking them on mean spirited posts. (not yours of course, see EscortSpeak )

>

>The term "circular argument" does not refer to the subject of

>the argument, as you suggest, but to its structure. George

>Bush graduated from Yale, but he still can't figure out how to

>pronounce "nuclear."

 

Yes and the structure you guys are providing seems to keep falling back on its original premise of price.

 

>No, I don't get that. You seem to equate that statement with

>the statement, "You are bad at what you do." I see no

>relationship between the two, however.

 

It’s not a matter about being good or bad, it’s about *telling* a person what they are worth as a person. Bargain with a hooker on the street. There’s no QUESTION what you’re bargaining over there.

 

>BG and NN have both tried to explain to you how inappropriate

>it is for someone who sells his services to get insulted

>simply because a prospective customer wants to negotiate the

>price of those services. I really don't think I can make it

>any clearer than they have.

 

And neither BG nor NN are escorts. Neither are you. Do you not get the point of that?

 

>I do. That's why I have never had any trouble finding an

>escort at the price I want.

 

Congrats  Doesn’t mean you have to insult those with the price you don’t want to get there.

>

>I suppose it's possible I have you confused with one of the

>many, many escorts listed on this site who have a fake name

>similar to the one you use. If you want to avoid that sort of

>thing, you might try coming up with something more original.

>

VERY Mature. You’ve been proven wrong so you attack something insignificant and trite. Good Job. My name actually HAS thought behind it if you MUST know. Scott was the name my father WANTED to call me and I wanted to stay Jewish. In addition I wanted to keep the same initials so when I signed my letters and posts S A, I’m not technically lying. You can refer to my post a while back about changing my name though, thinking of just “Adler.” No, I don’t like it either. I’ll stick with what works but thanks for your input on it! No, seriously. Not being bitchy with that.

 

>But like many clients I am not looking for something "unique."

> I am perfectly happy with an escort who can do certain basic

>things in a competent manner. I think most clients are.

 

I’m sure they are. But regardless, AND AGAIN, the POINT is, that you keep trying to pull away from and bring it back to money and the “market,” see circular argument on page 12 of this post in your textbook, that you don’t have a right to tell someone what they’re worth. Leave it in THEIR hands to bargain if they so desire.

 

>I'm not going to touch that one.

 

Kill Joy 

 

>I'm not interested in hiring an escort in order to discuss

>monetary policy or whether 'Pillowman' should win the Pulitzer

>Prize for drama. I have actual friends for that -- you know,

>people who are willing to spend time with you without being

>paid?

 

LOL. I understand. But frankly, escorts are human beings. Whether you want to see a show with them or see them perform one, you’re hiring a person not a piece of meat. We deserve respect. We can bring up relevance to the profession world again. Think of escorting as survival of the fittest, only the best survive and prosper. If you think about it, the better the doctor or lawyer the more money THEY make on average. Escorts with a brain and have something else to provide besides sex will probably charge more because there are people willing to pay more. If you want to “go to the free clinic,” hire a hooker. If you want a “specialist,” hire an escort.

>

>Take my advice -- never go to the Mideast or North Africa.

>There, merchants and service providers of all kinds get

>insulted if you DON'T haggle. I'm afraid you are something of

>a cultural chauvinist.

 

I NEVER said not to haggle and THAT is being taken WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context. You were talking about someone who haggles over a cab in NYC and the like. If you refer to my bread posts, I even acknowledge and BROUGHT UP the market places in the middle eastern countries and other parts of the world. I’ve been to them. Haggling is FUN. In Mexico it brings me great joy to get a leather jacket for $50 when the guy was asking $90. But there’s a time and a place. IN CONTEXT, which you so conveniently left out in your quoting, haggling over certain services is an abomination.

 

>You just can't seem to get your mind around the fact that

>money is the issue that drives all business transactions.

>Real professionals in any business don't find the subject of

>money "selfish" or "disrespectful." They're in business to

>make money, not to amuse themselves, and they recognize that

>their customers want to get value for money.

 

You can’t seem to get your mind around the POINT. It’s not money or bargaining I’m just expressing abhorrence to the mentality you’re proposing. You don’t respect escorts. To you, they’re pieces of meat that you can haggle over at market. That’s just not the case.

 

>On the other hand, perhaps you do understand that but pretend

>you don't. I have known one or two escorts who post here to

>pretend that there is something about escorting other than

>exchanging sex for money because they want to make clients

>feel guilty for being concerned about the price of what they

>are buying. That probably works with some clients, but not

>with me.

 

You almost had it there. It’s not a matter of guilt. We Jews know guilt, GOD do we know guilt. Trust me, I don’t forsee us meshing well in the future so you don’t need to worry about me regarding you as a client. That’s not meant angrily, I just think it wouldn’t be best considering the attitude you would go into it with.

[ErikMcAlister]

ROFL!

You FUCKED it UP! And, now, you're just too much of a fucking moron to even admit it.

There is no transliteration. We're talking about the LATIN ALPHABET. The letters are the same as those we use. Take a trip to Rome if you don't believe me. You INCORRECTLY posted the Latin. Hebrew & Cyrillic use DIFFERENT ALPHABETS.

Quo and Quod are DIFFERENT WORDS!

Bottom line: Scott fucked up & he's too pathetic to admit it.

Surprised? Neither am I.

[ErikMcAlister]

"And neither BG nor NN are escorts. Neither are you. Do you not get the point of that?"

 

I am. I don't find attempted negotiation insulting at all. I can either choose to lower my fee, or not.

 

Happy? Great. Now zip it. Or, I guess you're going to find some reason to claim that my opinion here is less valid than yours?

[ErikMcAlister]

"Why don’t you stick to your “anarchy” board where you can discuss whatever pathetic little detail you like and make fun of whomever you want."

 

Why don't you lick my cornhole? Last I checked, unless you're the new Benjamin Nicholas, you don't rule the roost here.

[Boston Guy]

You are correct: there is no transliteration involved.

 

If memory serves, the phrase Q.E.D. has only been used in its modern sense for five-hundred years, give or take. It's a Latin translation of Greek phrase used by Greek mathematicians, including Euclid, more than a couple thousand years ago.

 

Scott can be forgiven for thinking that early Latin was written in a different alphabet, since it was, kind of. The early Latin alphabet contained only 21 letters, which grew to 23 in the Roman alphabet. Additional letters came and went, including some that even made it into Old English, like Eth, Yogh, Thorn, and Wynn. I think Eth and Thorn are still in use in Icelandic, although I wouldn't swear to it. J, U and W are much, much younger than the other letters.

 

The Romans also used only capital letters. Small letters didn't show up until the Middle Ages.

 

Despite the changes, though, speakers of modern English can read early Latin words with ease, which is reasonably remarkable, given the millenia during which the Latin alphabet has stayed relatively static.

 

By the way, we still see remnants of lost Latin letters today. Thorn (TH) wasn't available in early English printing presses, since the type was manufactured on the European continent where Thorn was no longer in use. So printers substituted Y, which was sometimes used interchangeably with Thorn. Thus, "THE" became "YE" and "The Olde Candy Store" became "Ye Olde Candy Store." Eth was similar to Thorn, representing another variation on "TH": Thorn was used for the sound that begins "thorn" and Eth for the sound that begins "them".

 

Thorn looks like this: Þ

Eth looks like this: Ð

 

BG

[Txpaytoplay]

Wow,

I just love these alphabet language lessons.

[Boston Guy]

Sorry!

 

I've had a casual interest in linguistics for a very long time. It sometimes shows up in the oddest places. :+

 

BG

[ErikMcAlister]

Who, Boston Guy, provided the CORRECT Latin phrase?

Was it Scott? Did I?

Is quo the same word as quod?

 

Thank you, and good night.

[woodlawn]

>No. I’m just saying it’s a waste of time because the fact is

>those responding and refuting me AREN’T escorts so they can’t

>possibly be making statements that have any value in the topic

>of whether or not escorts have the right to feel insulted.

 

Saying that someone has a "right" to do something is a conclusion, not an argument. And for the record, I don't care how escorts feel, only how they act.

 

 

>It’s not a matter about being good or bad, it’s about

>*telling* a person what they are worth as a person. Bargain

>with a hooker on the street. There’s no QUESTION what you’re

>bargaining over there.

 

I do not recognize any distinction between hiring you through the internet and hiring another hooker whom I meet on the street, assuming I ever meet any. In both cases we are talking about exchanging the same thing, money, for the same thing, sexual services. I am not buying anyone's personhood, even assuming that was possible, which it is not.

 

>And neither BG nor NN are escorts. Neither are you. Do you

>not get the point of that?

 

No. I have as much right to an opinion about how escorts should conduct their business as you do.

 

 

>Congrats  Doesn’t mean you have to insult those with

>the price you don’t want to get there.

 

Offering someone money is not an insult where I come from. Or anywhere I have ever been.

 

>VERY Mature. You’ve been proven wrong so you attack something

>insignificant and trite. Good Job.

 

You haven't proven anything. You merely assume I am willing to take your word that I am wrong. Why would I do that?

 

 

 

My name actually HAS

>thought behind it if you MUST know. Scott was the name my

>father WANTED to call me and I wanted to stay Jewish.

 

I never said it didn't have thought behind it. And I don't really want to hear your life story. I am making the simple point that there are so many escorts who use the name "Scott" rather than their real name that it is not hard to confuse them.

 

you don’t have a right to

>tell someone what they’re worth.

 

Again, this conclusory language about "right." As BG pointed out, he and I have no interest in putting a price on a person. Instead, we are putting a price on certain services, that is all.

 

 

>LOL. I understand. But frankly, escorts are human beings.

>Whether you want to see a show with them or see them perform

>one, you’re hiring a person not a piece of meat. We deserve

>respect.

 

I do not give people respect simply because they belong to a certain occupation, only if the individual's behavior is worthy of respect. And respect does not preclude me from putting a price on an escort's services any more than it does on those of a dentist. You keep saying that I am commenting on what the person is worth, I keep telling you that I am commenting on what the services are worth. An escort may be a perfectly wonderful person but be lousy at providing the services I want.

 

> If you want to “go to the

>free clinic,” hire a hooker. If you want a “specialist,” hire

>an escort.

 

Again, I do not recognize the classes or castes of prostitutes that you are talking about. To me, anyone who provides sex for money is a prostitute. Some are better at it than others, some are more expensive than others, and as several clients have mentioned, there seldom is a correlation between cost and quality.

 

>I NEVER said not to haggle and THAT is being taken

>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context. You were talking

>about someone who haggles over a cab in NYC and the like. If

>you refer to my bread posts, I even acknowledge and BROUGHT UP

>the market places in the middle eastern countries and other

>parts of the world. I’ve been to them. Haggling is FUN. In

>Mexico it brings me great joy to get a leather jacket for $50

>when the guy was asking $90.

 

You said it is wrong to haggle with a cab driver because it reduces the money he needs to support his family. There is little doubt that the merchant you haggled with in Mexico earns less than the average cab driver in America, but you didn't seem to mind reducing his income.

 

You don’t respect escorts. To

>you, they’re pieces of meat that you can haggle over at

>market. That’s just not the case.

 

Once again, you do not make a distinction between the person and the services he offers. I do.

 

 

Trust me, I don’t forsee us

>meshing well in the future so you don’t need to worry about me

>regarding you as a client. That’s not meant angrily, I just

>think it wouldn’t be best considering the attitude you would

>go into it with.

 

There never was any question of my hiring you, considering your attitude. I don't care to hire escorts who think that they belong to some superior stratum of the business that puts them above everyone else. I have noticed that some escorts who post here don't like to think they have anything to do with common prostitutes who work on the street, so they invent these imaginary class distinctions to make themselves feel better about that. Those distinctions mean nothing to me.

[Boston Guy]

LOL... I think I began my response by saying "you are correct."

 

As you noted, quo and quod are different words. However, I think he simply misspelled the Latin phrase, for which you provided the correct spelling and a note that Latin was, indeed, written with the Latin alphabet.

 

BG

[SAdler]

http://www.albmolecular.com/features/tekreps/vol03/no18/

 

Again ... talk to the PhD. First hit on Google when you search:

 

Quo Erat Demonstratum. I'm not denying your ways are correct. I'm just saying it's used and spelled different ways depending on the context.

[SAdler]

>I am. I don't find attempted negotiation insulting at all. I

>can either choose to lower my fee, or not.

 

That's your choice. Some people are insulted by things that others are not. You're more than welcome to give your opinion on the topic since you do escort but my point was that those who don't have no right to say that those of us who are insulted shouldn't feel that way.

 

>Happy? Great. Now zip it. Or, I guess you're going to find

>some reason to claim that my opinion here is less valid than

>yours?

 

Your claim is no less valid than mine. But then again, I could stoop to your level and say that you're a classless moron and since all you are is a dick (care to comment on double entendre?), your opinion isn't relevant But that would be stooping to your level and I wouldn't do such a thing

[Boston Guy]

>http://www.albmolecular.com/features/tekreps/vol03/no18/

>

>Again ... talk to the PhD. First hit on Google when you

>search:

>

 

Simple: he misspelled it. Trust me, he's not the first Ph.D. to make a spelling mistake. :-) And he's especially not the first science Ph.D. to make a spelling mistake. :-) :-) Don't believe everything you read, especially on the Web. If you are still curious, do check a dictionary. Any comprehensive English dictionary will include Q.E.D., along with it's proper spelling.

 

 

>Quo Erat Demonstratum. I'm not denying your ways are correct.

> I'm just saying it's used and spelled different ways

>depending on the context.

 

No, it's not. There is one way to spell it and it does not depend on context. There are other, similar Latin phrases. But they, too, have only one correct spelling. And context has nothing to do with it.

 

BG

[buckyball]

Since when was google the absolute truth? Or anything on the internet for that matter. The actual phrase is "quod erat demonstrandum" not quo (which means by which, through which) and quod means "which". We use q.e.d. routinely in our mathematical proofs and in my years in college and grad school I have never heard it being referred to as quo erat demonstrandum.

 

By the way, googling "quo erat demonstrandum" brings up some Japanese Anime book/magazine site.

[ErikMcAlister]

How very sad that Scott isn't man enough to admit to making a mistake! There's no end to the pity I suddenly feel for him.

[augustman]

I am sort breaking my rule of "beating a dead horse" by adding to this discussion a second time, I did want want to say that I am glad we did add a second known escort to the conversation. Although the commentary between the guys is a bit crude for my taste, it is the reason I enjoy being a part of this message system the interaction of client and escort.

 

I understand both points of view and I generally prefer to give the escort up front what I am interested in and a time frame and then have him give me his fee. I accept that and decide a yes or no. I believe that fits Scott's persona of offering a session, but from my discussions with many escorts I find that my approach is more the unusual. I would say that if I had to pick a discussion that would be more insulting in its approach, but for many that gets to the point quicker is if the client opened the conversation by saying "I have $200 what can I get for it." I would think that takes this back to street corner methodology, but I do not know I am not an escort. Is one way really and different when you get right down to it? I would think one is more respectful than the other, but I am not on the other side of this discussion.

[JT Brooklyn]

AS ALWAYS..MUCHO,MUCHO Interest in this "Fee" Topic..It comes up every once in awhile, with "Major Interest", especially from the "Lurkers" among us! I guess alot of Guys are "Hoping" Someday they will read.."RATES HAVE GONE DOWN" in MAJOR Markets-Miami-NYC-LA..! "Maybe next time guys".. BUT don't be counting on it! LOL :+

[SAdler]

>You seem to forget that clients have experience, too.

 

You have experience but not on the side of selling the service, only buying. That’s like saying a patient of medicine is qualified to perform open heart surgery.

 

>First, I'm not trying to be politically correct. Second, you

>seem to lack any real understanding of the concept of value.

>If I followed your logic, I would buy anything that I have

>enough money to pay for, whether or not the good or service

>being purchased represented good value for my money. That's

>not only unrealistic, it is naive.

>

Never said that. We’re talking about something you’ve made an effort to seek out to buy. You have established you wish to buy it. Thus, calling me naïve for bringing this up just deters from the issue. If you want something, you should be ready to pay for it.

>

>

>There are those who would call that being a smart consumer.

>Most of the wealthiest people I know acquired their wealth

>through a combination of careful acquisition of resources and

>even more careful use of the resources they had accumlated.

>You may call them cheap; it wouldn't bother them one bit. It

>may not be an accident that the people you saw being prudent

>shoppers were the ones with the money.

 

LOL. AGAIN. CONTEXT. You’re talking stocks and bonds and acquisitions. These are purchases far less than five thousand dollars at a time. Hell, we’re really debating hourly at this point which tends to be less than $500. Again. Conserve your money and be prudent when you’re not directly affecting someone or if it’s not over something frivolous, like $1.30, that won’t matter to you in the long run. Bargaining over a house makes total sense etc. 

>

>Pardon me for saying this, but I think that's a load of crap.

>Virtually everyone started someplace. With the possible

>exception of trust fund babies, most people have had to work

>hard for their money. I doubt very many escorts would be

>willing to trade their jobs for one digging ditches, working

>long hours at retail establishments, being a plumber or doing

>any one of the thousands of things people do to get by.

 

They might have started some place. But they still didn’t do this. You seem to presume that having worked as a ditch digger is the same as doing rotations in med school. ALL vocations are different and one does not qualify someone to COMMENT or speak as another unless they too have received the same training.

 

>No, I do not. But I think some offers are laughable and

>should be readily refused.

OK. DEVILS ADVOCATE. What percentage do you think is laughable? Wait. Does it matter? Because at this point you’re the only one benefiting from what YOU deem justifiable? Do you see the point yet? Of course not. ::sigh:: why do I bother. Now if you had escorted you would TOTALLY get it  You might not have to agree but you’d get it. Heh heh.

 

>I will repeat that I think you do not have a good

>understanding of the concept of value. You seem to think that

>the value of something is equal to whatever price the seller

>has attached to it. Unfortunately, that is often not the

>case; in some contexts, it's seldom the case (real estate

>springs most quickly to mind).

 

Real Estate is a good example. But it’s also an example of a MARKETPLACE environment where the buyer is EXPECTED to bargain. There are different cases, this is one of them. YOU don’t seem to understand the concept of different market places.

>

>Why should I accept the word of an unknown person that their

>services are worth whatever they happen to say they are worth?

> On what basis should I blindly accept that, especially if my

>experience in the past suggests that the price being charged

>for the services is high enough that I am unlikely to consider

>the services a good value at that price?

 

I have reviews. Do you? You have every right NOT to believe it, but at that point don’t contact me further. If you don’t want to pay me, move on. Who are you to pursue something we’re not mutually agreeing on. If I want your business that bad and know I can get it at a lower price, I’ll contact YOU!

>

>In any market, there is a wide range of pricing offered by

>escorts for what on paper are the same services. Years of

>experience have taught me that there's often little difference

>between lower-priced and higher-priced escorts. (Actually,

>I've found that lower-priced escorts are often more fun and

>arrive with far less attitude.) Given this, I see nothing

>wrong at all in making a respectful offer to an escort I'm

>interested in.

 

See above. Your experiences are relevant to you -- Not to the FEELINGS of escorts.

 

>Oddly, escorts that I've spent more than a little time with

>consider me quite generous; one recently told me that he's

>going to start rolling out the red carpet at the airport when

>I arrive in his town. Being a smart consumer has nothing

>whatsoever to do with being cheap or generous.

 

I’m still waiting to find a seat for your party sir. Was the guest name “Relevance?”

>

>Nobody seems to get it because it's not true.

 

Well gee, now we’re telling ME I’m lying about my feelings. You’re really on top of this one.

 

>You can say

>it's true but that doesn't make it true. It's entirely about

>money. If you offered your services for $10.00 per hour,

>you'd have people lined up at your door for as many hours as

>you stay awake. If you offered your services for $10,000.00

>per hour, you'd find far fewer takers, if any, for the exact

>same services. What we are discussing is arriving at a fair

>value for a service being offered for sale. You contend that

>the value is always equal to whatever the seller says it is.

>I don't believe that to be the case. I can understand why you

>might want it to be so, but that still doesn't make it true.

>And it has nothing to do with respect. It's easy to like and

>respect someone a great deal but still be unwilling to

>purchase their product or service because the price is too

>high to represent good value. It happens a million times a

>day all over the country.

>

I am contending that the value of the service is whatever the escort chooses to make it and can receive. If they charge 10,000 and get it … I will kill them and steal their client list. Simple as that. Seriously though, the point is that if they get it they are getting it. It’s not up to you to tell them that if they can get it from one person, you’re BETTER than that other client and deserve a better price. Now that YOU are being compared does this make any more sense?

 

>LOL... No, of course not. Not in a million years would I

>equate getting together with an escort with having an

>operation go right or completing an important business deal.

>I'm not sure how you reached a point where you would think

>these would be of equal importance but I doubt many people

>here would agree with you.

 

Oy. If you aren’t going to be intelligent about this and make the comments in context and not take my words trying to pick and choose what you’re going to respond to … I don’t want to waste my time with comments that are only there to make yourself look good since you have nothing to say to respond intellectually to me.

>

>Choosing an escort is much like choosing a good novel or

>deciding what movie to go see. It's simply about having fun.

>I usually enjoy the novels I read and the movies I see.

>Likewise, I've been really fortunate over the years to have

>found many terrific escorts and have had many great times with

>them. But, for me, at least, choosing an escort would never,

>ever rise to a level of any real importance.

 

Choose another book. See another movie. But frankly, I’d love to see the reaction on the cashier’s face when you tell this 16 year old girl you’re not going to pay the price for the movie. I think her words will be, then sorry sir go to another theater. Same goes here. Find a bargain bookstore or a dollar movie theater, but you’re sure as hell not reading my best seller.

>

>Also, I think you lack a full understanding of the kinds of

>study, work and preparation that are needed before one is

>considered qualified to practice medicine or law or work as an

>engineer or architect or any one of many other similar

>professions.

 

Don’t patronize me, I’m well aware. The end results, not the processes are in question. Obviously you cant compare them in this respect. I do love how when you have no relevant response to a comment you opt to try to damage my credibility by questioning my intelligence. Bravo.

>

>Actually, Scott, you presume the client's perspective in

>everything you say. For example, on a most basic level, you

>presume that someone who is making an offer to you is doing so

>out of a lack of respect or because they cannot afford to pay

>more.

 

Ah, again. I didn’t say that you did. My statements are based on my experiences which what I’ve always said. I also presume nothing, I merely speak from how I feel and again, what I have encountered.

 

>No. You have set a price. The value perceived by the client

>may well be very different than the price you have set.

>Further, if the client does not perceive any value, then no

>offer at all would be forthcoming. That's pretty fundamental

>to all negotiation.

 

Fine. I’ll concede in terms of commonly used definitions of value. All the same though, you don’t know a value to presume but you do regardless. Regardless, if you don’t perceive a value – move on to the next option.

>

>Do you honestly think that all art is purchased at the sticker

>price? I don't. Further, the value of an object or service

>has nothing to do with the feelings of the person who is

>providing it. The value has to with whatever utility -- in

>the broadest sense of that word -- it will have for the

>purchaser. People who negotiate for a living strip emotion

>from their perception of whatever is being negotiated for and

>look at it for what it is. People who don't do that often end

>up paying too much for they buy. Ask any real estate agent

>about that one.

OK. Your “utility” is your happiness. Why would you bargain with your happiness. People who don’t know me already as a regular client and bargain – I bring this word properly in this thread – DISGUST me and on the off chance I were to take them as a client, we wouldn’t be having a good time because I would be unhappy with them the entire time. That would be the type of client I would reject at the door. That comment is directed to those who have this image that escorts fuck everyone that waves money in their face. Not always the case.

>

>Escorts make a decision to escort entirely on their own. If

>they feel they are compromising their morals or otherwise

>engaging in activities that are distasteful to them, they

>should find another way of making a living. But that has

>nothing to do with the value they bring to a particular client

>unless, of course, their dislike for what they are doing

>causes them to provide their client with less than stellar

>service.

>

Yes and No. Some aren’t given the option. Some are trust fund babies that have nothing to do and rather this than crack cocaine. Others are starving and need to find some way for quick cash. Others rise from rags to riches. Don’t presume to know everyone’s story.

 

>Are you saying that escorts are going to provide their

>services for free? If not, then I think clients are right to

>consider escort services as something to buy. It's like any

>other transaction in which something is offered in return for

>a monetary payment. Not understanding this basic notion is

>pretty surprising.

>

Yeah, and not understanding the fact that you don’t walk into a restaurant and arbitrarily ask for different prices on the menu is obscene. Are you not getting that? By now it’s not surprising to me.

 

>I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. But what I would

>expect to purchase would be two hours of an escorts time, at

>the same general level of quality that he would provide during

>a one-hour appointment. If an escort agreed to a two-hour

>meeting and then provided sub-standard service because he

>didn't like the terms of the agreement he had agreed to, well,

>shame on him. We should all live up to our agreements.

 

If you’re going to respond create a context. Again, not wasting my time if you’re not going to put thought into your responses.

 

>You seem to be rather easily insulted. But you do seem to

>understand the concept that two hours might be priced lower

>than two times a one-hour rate. The question then becomes

>what rate is appropriate. In my opinion, the easiest way to

>determine the answer to that question is through a simple

>negotiation that respects both parties.

 

NO. You wait for the escort to make the first move. It’s not up to you to SET the price. You can by all means assess the value but it is NOT your duty to suggest a price.

>

>If, however, you find the concept of negotiation insulting,

>you shouldn't engage in negotiations. If someone tells me a

>price is non-negotiable, I accept that. The ball is then in

>my court and I need to decide if the asking price represents

>good value. I may decide it does but I may well simply

>decline to purchase whatever is being sold.

>

That’s the point. Don’t assume the prices are negotiable, assume they’re all non negotiable. The way to tell if they ARE negotiable is to way away from the table and if you’re called back – then you know the option is there. Does answering on your terms help you at all?

>

 

>I find your response interesting here, on a number of levels.

>My first thought was to wonder why you are escorting. One

>presumes that most people work to make money. One hopes that

>people are able to work at something that they enjoy. But,

>generally, one doesn't work to gain respect.

 

LOL. You’d be surprised. I mean. Let’s talk Eva Peron here. I’m an escort completely by choice solely as a hobby. I enjoy it, that’s why I do it 

>

>You seem to consistently diminish the value of the money that

>the client is paying for the services you offer. You've done

>that in this thread and also in your replies to Woodlawn. Yet

>one would expect that the money you earn is precisely what you

>are working for.

 

Yes, it’s the overall point for most escorts. But the means comes into question here. A lawyer works in a court room to build his reputation, get a higher win ration and of course money. Ask any judge or lawyer what the most important part of practicing law – especially litigation – and they will say their reputation. It precedes them before the opening statement and will remain long after they retire. It dictates how they are treated in court. Likewise an escort should be treated like a human being and the fact that people think that they can be treated as less than that is abhorrent.

 

>

>Saying "pennies are valuable" is quite condescending to what

>your clients are providing. The agreement, if I understand

>it, is that they pay you for agreed-upon services. In other

>words, you provide services and they provide money. Each

>party is bringing something that the other one values. Yet

>you condescendingly dismiss the payment as "pennies are

>valuable." This is the kind of attitude I have occasionally

>encountered with high-priced escorts who have become drunk on

>the constant fawning praise of clients and who consequently

>end up with an entirely too large consideration of their own

>value.

 

Again attacking my credibility and avoiding the issue itself. You must be a defense lawyer  The point about pennies (IN CONTEXT) that we were TALKING about was bringing something to the table in terms of value. You just discussed bringing two things of value to the table. Are services now instantly imbued with value now?

>

>I'm not sure where you get that. I said self-worth is not

>based on anything offered by any client. Self-worth is

>internal and generally self-created. But it is entirely

>separate from the economic value of the services that any one

>of us might be able to offer at any time.

 

Depends on the service. In this case you’re talking about something SO private that the government doesn’t legalize it because there’s no way to regulate it. The government sees the points I’m making that prostitution can’t be deemed a level market field, why cant you? These services ARE completely different from ANYTHING to compare them to. Perhaps by criminalizing they’re admitting that there is no way to create a market for something so abstract quite yet. Maybe they’re just bitter they cant find away to become federal pimps 

 

>Not at all. I think escorts should charge as much as they can

>charge. Why work for less than the true economic value of

>your services? On the other hand, I think clients have just

>as much right to decide what they want to pay and to walk away

>at any time.

 

Never disagreed with you! I have always said if they don’t want to pay they should walk away. Point is, clients need to realize they aren’t supposed to make the first move in bargaining. It’s rude.

 

>It's just supply and demand. The difference

>between us, though, is that I know good negotiations can bring

>about agreements in which all parties are very happy. You

>don't understand that and thus see offers to negotiate as

>insulting. That's not that surprising: most Americans are

>unused to negotiating for much of anything. But that has

>nothing to do with the value of negotiation; it simply speaks

>to a lack of experience with it.

 

Now you’re bagging on Americans too. Somebody get me my freedom fries … I’m getting hungry. Yeesh. Look. Don’t presume to insult my intelligence, that of escorts and ESPECIALLY not the American people. We just seem to have social courtesy and respect whereas other nations don’t seem to understand there is a time, place and context for everything.

 

Finding out you’re speaking down to me on a national level only strengthens my point that perhaps it’s not my problem but yours to learn the social behaviors and expectations. Perhaps you should pick up some Amy Vanderbilt…

[SAdler]

>As soon as the artist puts a price tag on a painting,

>they have stepped into the world of commerce. The painting

>may represent a piece of their soul, but the artist put the

>$5000 price on it.

 

Indeed. And as the buyer, you can express interest in the painting and choose to buy it. If the artist is willing to part with it for less and knows that a lower price might interest you, they’ll certainly be willing to ask you what you think a fair price might be.

>

>You suggest that we don't understand what an escort's life

>(or an artist's life) is like. Give us more credit. I work

>in a creative field; I got into it because I like the work;

>I pay attention to detail and take pride in what I do. But I

>have come to realize that when I offer my services for a fee,

>I am engaging in commerce. I have to drop the idea of taking

>negotiation personally. When a client wants to negotiate,

>I don't think "you don't understand me," "you insult me,"

>"you're telling me I'm not worth it," and so on. This is

>a lesson it behooves any professional to learn.

 

I can respect that. But again, what you’re selling is still VERY different from what we’re selling. I’m not saying this is my case, but some escorts have trouble looking at themselves in the mirror. The idea of the Two-Dolla-Hoe is not something one wants to be thought of as. If someone takes less money, that’s a SERIOUS jolt to their self esteem. You could NEVER experience that. I mean, if someone pays you less for your creative field, are you thinking less of yourself as a person? In your field Im sure there are other people who do the same job and you have to market accordingly. This is my point. Escorts are individuals and when they lower their price, they need to evaluate their value to themselves as people and that’s not an easy task. Leave it to THEM to make the first move and they’ll be more psychologically healthy to do so.

>

>There are people offering individualized, "soulful" services

>every day: architects, musicians, landscaping designers, you

>name it. They understand the nature of commerce; they learn

>not to take negotiation so personally.

>

 

See above.

 

>In other words, it costs more if a fuck is involved rather

>than just a blowjob. You want to have it both ways: you

>want to engage in commerce, but how dare the client even

>ask whether the rates are negotiable.

 

How is that having it both ways. I’m setting prices and making it EASIER for clients. My rates can range from $250 - $400. As we’ve discussed, if I said my rate was $400 I probably wouldn’t get as many clients. By offering rates pertaining to the service I’m in essence negotiating for you

[Guest 2004]

>

>I can respect that. But again, what you’re selling is still

>VERY different from what we’re selling.

 

You keep referring to "we" yet you seem to be the only one crying about this topic. Therefore, in case I am missing something who is this mighty "we?"

 

---/

I refuse to be just another year.

[SAdler]

The we would be the now 100+ emails I've gotten from other escorts -- and yes some clients who praise me for speaking up. These boards to put it simply, for someone like you, suck.

 

The few escorts that do speak on here anymore care about their public image and don't want to risk business. I totally respect them for that, they're doing what they have to.

 

Frankly at this point, I'd rather people see me for what I am -- honest and blunt. I appreciate the forum this board has allowed me to this point, but it's getting out of hand. I'll speak for those who choose not to. If they have conflicting opinions let them speak. If they tell me I'm wrong in person or in email, I'm happy to oblige here. But frankly, I'm just sick of seeing people getting walked all over on these boards day after day.

[BewareofNick]

>The we would be the now 100+ emails I've gotten from other

>escorts -- and yes some clients who praise me for speaking up.

> These boards to put it simply, for someone like you, suck.

 

Were these e-mails that were actually sent from other people (besides Bobby Thompson) or were they e-mails yous ent to yourself from various e-mail addresses?

 

>Frankly at this point, I'd rather people see me for what I am

>-- honest and blunt.

 

Really? Let's see what an escort had to say about negotiating fees in their escort ad.

 

[blockquote]I'm a freshman swimmer in college looking to pay off my tuition. I'm available for everything from a nice time on the town for dinner, to a massage, to a hot night of savage and passionate fucking. I would prefer if you were local but will travel as far West as Thousand Oaks and as East as West LA . As I said I'm a swimmer, former High school captain so I have the body. I'm 5'10, 155 pounds with short curly dirty blonde hair - Imagine Ryan

Phillipe in Cruel Intentions. My eyes are hazel and I'm told they're some of my best features. I'm told my other best feature is my 8"s of thickness. My

favorite thing to do with that thickness is shove it in my mouth. Yeah you heard right. I can suck myself off and do it whenever possible. The

advantage to that is that while I'm shoving my dick in someone's ass, I can also go down on them at the same time. I can even suck myself off while I get fucked. Rates are negotiable and reasonable. I tend to serve a more elite clientele. Hope to hear from you![/blockquote]

 

Who might have said this? Why none other than Scott Adler herself! (She who doesn't negotiate and doesn't advertise anywhere else but on this site)

 

http://www.nakedjock.com/escort/losangeles/lascott/

 

>I appreciate the forum this board has

>allowed me to this point, but it's getting out of hand. I'll

>speak for those who choose not to. If they have conflicting

>opinions let them speak. If they tell me I'm wrong in person

>or in email, I'm happy to oblige here. But frankly, I'm just

>sick of seeing people getting walked all over on these boards

>day after day.

 

People getting walked on?? I am SHOCKED! I thought once the "mean girls" got kicked off this board that a gentleman's club was supposed to arise, and yet here's Scott claiming that NOTHING HAS CHANGED. How can that be? Boston Guy? Tampa Yankee?

 

Gentlemen, you disappoint me.

 

Oh, yeah, I'm Back

[Boston Guy]

Scott:

 

At this point, there's no sense to responding to your points on a point-by-point basis. Everyone here understands where we both are coming from.

 

Your comments reveal either a fundamental lack of understanding of how negotiations can work to the advantage of both parties in a negotiation or a strong desire to avoid negotiations or both. Since you're in a position of selling services, it's easy to understand how not understanding negotiating would lead you to a place where you want to avoid it.

 

My comment that most Americans are unused to negotiating for much of anything is factually true; if anything, your other comments validate my point. In many cultures, negotiating a purchase is normal and expected. That is not the case in our culture and many people are uncomfortable with negotiating for anything at all. That's too bad. But to take that point and claim that I am insulting Americans is rediculous and naive.

 

Further, suggesting that the government doesn't legalize prostitution because it can't find a way to regulate it or because it can't find a way to establish a market for prostitution is almost unbelievable. One presumes that most of the people who come here are either escorts or people who have hired them or are contemplating doing so. It would seem likely that most of those people understand that the government doesn't legalize prostitution because most people in this society believe it's morally repugnant. In this thread, you have compared yourself to a doctor or attorney. Certainly, one hopes that you understand that most Americans would make no distinction between the escorts who come here and prostitutes of any other type and would heartily and rapidly condemn all escorts and the people who hire them.

 

You'd like everyone to believe that an escort's value is equal to the price he has set for his services and that the price should be considered non-negotiable. You state that it's not the client's position or right to make an offer, claim that doing so is disgusting to you, and state that it's rude to offer to negotiate.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. But continually restating your opinion does make it fact. The fact is that many escorts are happy to negotiate their services. It's easy to find good, hot, sexy escorts in any city in America who are happy to work for an average price of $200 per hour or less. Guys who charge more would like everyone to think that the "going rate" is higher than that and certainly it's true that many guys have advertised rates higher than $200. But many escorts are happy with $200 per hour, especially for multiple hour appointments.

 

You may not like it when someone makes an offer of negotiation for your services. But that doesn't mean that someone doesn't have the right to make such an offer or shouldn't do so. You claim it's rude for someone to make an offer. Well, frankly, I don't really care if you think it's rude. It's my money and I'll spend it as I wish to.

 

I've hired tons of escorts, many of them many times, have had great times, am always asked to contact the escort the next time I'm back in town and have stayed in touch with some of the guys even after they stopped escorting. Clearly, these guys don't believe I've been insulting them. But then I seek out guys who are normal, boy-next-door types with little or no attitude. Your posts here reveal the kind of enormous attitude that some escorts develop and that I try diligently to avoid.

 

In the meantime, I advise all clients to consider making offers of negotiation when hiring escorts. If a guy's listed rate is too high, he'll probably be quite happy to provide a much lower rate for a second hour, bringing the average rate way down. Or he may be happy to take a lower rate for an off time (usually afternoons). Or he may be delighted to go to dinner, off the clock; everyone has to eat and sometimes it's better to be treated to a free meal at a nice restaurant than to eat elsewhere on your own nickel.

 

Decide what you want and ask the escort you're considering hiring what he thinks. In some cases, guys will respond negatively. But, if you're pleasant about it and not condescending, you'll be surprised how often reasonable offers are accepted -- happily. The trick is making the offer reasonable to both parties, not just to yourself.

 

And that is my last comment in this thread.

 

BG

[ErikMcAlister]

"Now if you had escorted you would TOTALLY get it You might not have to agree but you’d get it. Heh heh."

 

Scott, I escort, and, yet, I have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not saying this to bash you, but you do NOT know everything. You seem to have a severe problem with admitting that (just look at your responses when your incorrect use of Latin was pointed out). I hope it is a function of youth, because I think you've got loads of potential.

[JT Brooklyn]

Sadler Babe..IMHO.. After over 5k Hits and Mucho, Much Replies..Why don't YOU.. leave this Horse in the Barn.."For at Least 30 Days..LOL ..and Yes.. We do have Horses in Bklyn! LOL :+