A day of relaxing and boredom

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

I hate to admit that I took one of those "me" days today but I did. After cleaning the house and doing those wonderful loads of towels (in calls) I decided to look further in to the challenge I made Post #25 in "Unlucky Experiences" and really see what was the general attitude of the postings on this site.

 

I really don't know what to say.

 

I know most of you are really busy in day-to-day life things and don’t have the time to do the searching. I will say this,,,,, give it a try.

 

I am not going to go down in flames on this one, I know I have a bad reputation here as being a smart mouth, full of himself, full of attitude kid so giving you a break here. I just have to say after about 5 hours of probing and looking into archived postings as well at recent ones, I now have a better understanding of the situation going on here at this center. It was expressed numerous times that if you as a person came here looking for support than you where in the wrong place. I can’t agree with them more. I will not take back any of the writings I have submitted to this site except if I had made an open apology. I will however ignore as advised by several posters the negative issues and remarks posted.

 

After coming to that decision, I began to look through the recent postings for the positive readings that I might be able to read as I am sitting here doing my usual email checks, advertising ect, I don’t know guys, I just don’t see that much here that is positive. Now without coming at me with both barrels loaded exuding your vile and contempt to an escort that dare to write anything in the center, let me remind you of last spring when there where several postings as to where the escorts went, why weren’t they posting anymore. I see recently of postings as to it has gotten quiet in here, escorts are leaving one by one again. Hmmmmmm I wonder why. I read in several postings that the escorts needed you and your money, you didn’t need us. So I wonder why you even pretend to care if we are here or not, after all isn’t this just a place to rehash your experiences to the gang what a good or lousy time you had the other night in the hay? What would be missed if the escorts did quit contributing to the site. We would still be posted on the other side showing you all our glory and the in-depth novel like stories you left behind for everyone to read and decide if that works for the next client or just to beat off to.

 

You say you want us here, but yet when we do post something it is labeled as self-promoting. When we try to stand up for our integrity as a human being we are quickly reminded that we where paid our 200 dollars and to shut up and enjoy it. So why even bother to pretend to care if we leave or not.

 

I know there are some really decent people here and trust me I have made a mental note of the ones that support the escort, deej is a very good example, without kissing butt he writes with an objective view in no ones favor. Thank you

 

I cant help but notice I have been a bit of a negative voice here as well, but I do ask you to look at my view point. I am only defending and protecting my self-esteem and the integrity of others in my field. I cant help but to get angry when things are said to make another person feel like the only reason he is worthy of being in the same room as you is because you paid for it. I will not apologize for defending that. I wonder that if after a long period of silence from our side you ran out of things to yap about, probably true. I also wonder if there where no negative remarks made or threads posted what would you talk about? I really can’t come up with that answer. I look at the Party Planning thread one more time for a really good chuckle and you know, you boys really are quite funny at times, ya cant even plan a damn party without getting into a screaming bitch fight over how fat or old the guy next to you can be. And you really don’t need us? I see also another thread of a guy who gets pissed off if someone doesn’t give a discount, after all we make more money than god doing this, and yet in the same string admits it is the only way he has to fulfill his "needs". And you dont need us. If we didn’t exist as a profession, this site wouldn’t exist, and you say you don’t need us we need you.

 

Don’t get me wrong, as we have discussed previously, there are some "escorts" and hustlers that are in this for the fast buck, I have no reason to stop your voice of disclosing the crooks and scams, but I have to say for the most part you don’t hire those anyways, you hire the ones that have professionalism, passion, hard ons, and can maintain a decent, educated conversation with you and your guest and look damn fierce in that black tux. So why do you need to lump us all in the same cookie dough. Keep the reviews in the review site. Post your jokes, cool ideas, thoughts to ponder ect, Funny pics here in the message board and I am sure the boys will stick around.

 

I will say this, I truly doubt if this part of the website was removed it would effect the business of the escorts here very little if any.

 

PS, right now the number of threads posted of Clients v/s Escorts on venting their thoughts is: (drum roll) Clients: 26 Escorts: 9

Still searching, though it looks like I was right again jc92103

 

 

Still Making People Smile (they dont know about this place) In San Diego

 

Michael Johnson

http://www.geocities.com/michaeljohnsonxxx/index.htm

[ted]

Michael,I'm not really sure about your intent with this message; those of us who come here fairly regularly are well aware of the tendency to react negatively to some escorts' threads. You almost seem to be inviting that kind of reaction with this post. I for one haven't perceived of you as, ".. I have a bad reputation here as being a smart mouth, full of himself, full of attitude kid so giving you a break here...", in fact you're on my list for my next SD sojourn. You seem to be a hot, intelligent, and somewhat opinionated young man. I don't think you will change the attitude of the most flagrant flamers here. In fact I think its this type of post that eggs them on. I like the board because of the diverse people that post here, and especially appreciate the escorts input. I hope everyone continues to visit and participate, and hopefully everyone will learn to express his dissenting opinion without attacking the person with an opposing view.

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

Before you respond, this wasnt a thread posted to get you boys to beg for us to stay, it was written to make ya think, maybe no response will a better way to just think about it

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

Ted, it is in now way created to make a problem issue arise, I am simply stating what I have seen in the postings all the way back to April 2000. I only posted this to bring to light why the sudden Escort bailing again.

[Guest JD]

Glad you had a relaxing day. Sounds like you need one!

 

Your original message was so long and rambling, I'm sure most people haven't bothered to read it. Please don't assume that a lack of response indicates we're pondering over the "wisdom" of your writings. It means we probably stopped reading after the third paragraph.

 

I'm so new to the Message Center that I have no history concerning your previous postings. I personally value the input of escorts on this board. But please, make it easy to understand your point. :-)

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

I did say I was bored. lol

Sorry it was so boring

[marc anthony]

Michael: Here are my thoughts. In any community, there are all kinds of people. There are those who bring positive thought and action, and those that bring negativity. There are those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened! That is the nature of human communities... and message boards will not be different. On this board, there are some people who are advertising, there are some who are looking for friendly conversation, there are some who are looking for a fight, and there are some who are just watching and reading. It is everyone's right to participate how they see fit within the rules of the board and the laws of our country. I myself tend to be a "positive" poster, as I really like escorts (especially twinky ones). To be clear, I enjoy hiring escorts, and I like MANY of the escorts that I have met as human beings as well. So I read most of the posts, and contribute where I feel comfortable, and ignore threads that are spinning negatively out of control. It is fun recreation for me, and nothing more... so I save myself any aggravation. For others, the fun may come from stirring up controversy. That is their right. The negativity obviously bothers you... to me a good sign of your fine character. So contribute in your own way, affect the silent majority with your personal wisdom, and simply walk away from the heat. And when the going really gets rough, go chat on the phone with your favorite twinky boy escort and bring the smooth warm cutie over to your bed (oops, sorry... that's what I do, hehe).

Chin up, and fight the good fight!

[Guest JT]

>doing those wonderful loads of

>towels (in calls)

 

Hi Mike, it looked like you've been busy. The size of the loads (hmmmm...i mean the towels) is perhaps a good sign of business. :-)

 

Before I go any further, I just want to let you know the purpose of my post is to provide some alternative views of "clients versus escorts" that may be more positive and productive for all of us here. It is not my intention to offend you in any way but if you do feel offended by my following post, please accept my sincere apology.

 

>I decided to look further in to the challenge I made Post

>#25 in "Unlucky Experiences" and really see what was the

>general attitude of the postings on this site.

 

In the same thread, I've made some suggestion (#34) regarding your question in #25. You were asking whether anyone could tell you that there was ever a thread about bad clients in this message board. From what I've read below, you seemed to have found them. :-)

 

>It was expressed numerous times that if you as a person came

>here looking for support than you where in the wrong place. I can’t agree with them more.

 

I'm sad to know you feel that way. Although I have not been here for a long time, I do find a significant number of contributors sincere, supportive and helpful in their comments. I don't deny that we may not always agree with each other and that there are individuals who tend to prefer to dwell on the negatives, however, I find them to be a small minority. Even when there is "heated" disagreement in a thread, it doesn't only occur between "clients" and "escorts". There are many threads in which clients "strongly disagree" with clients and/or escorts "strongly disagree" escorts. In other words, the "clients" versus "escorts" (us against them) division may not be truly representative of the nature of the disagreement or negativity in the message board.

 

>After coming to that decision, I

>began to look through the

>recent postings for the positive

>readings that I might be

>able to read as I

>am sitting here doing my

>usual email checks, advertising ect,

>I don’t know guys, I

>just don’t see that much

>here that is positive.

 

What I can say is that there are also a good number of recent postings that really show how much care, respect and sensitivity the people here have for each other. One that greatly impressed me was titled "need advice...finally have tried gay sex with escort...".

 

>Now

>without coming at me with

>both barrels loaded exuding your

>vile and contempt to an

>escort that dare to write

>anything in the center, let

>me remind you of last

>spring when there where several

>postings as to where the

>escorts went, why weren’t they

>posting anymore. I see recently

>of postings as to it

>has gotten quiet in here,

>escorts are leaving one by

>one again. Hmmmmmm I wonder

>why.

 

You could be right, Michael. Escorts may have left here because

they found the message board to be too negative. However, some might also have left for other reasons. Perhaps they have become too busy, or they have found a wonderful boy-friend, :-) or they have stopped escorting altogether, etc. And there are also those who said they would stop contributing and then have made a comeback. I think many of us here welcome them back, without anyone challenging them why (which I feel is totally unnecessary). What I'm trying to say is that we can wonder and speculate as much as we want, we probably will never know for sure the true reason(s) why people (whether they are escorts or clients, and yes I do believe there are "clients" who have left the message board too) stop contributing to the message board unless they choose to tell us!

 

>I read in several

>postings that the escorts needed

>you and your money, you

>didn’t need us. So I

>wonder why you even pretend

>to care if we are

>here or not, after all

>isn’t this just a place

>to rehash your experiences to

>the gang what a good

>or lousy time you had

>the other night in the

>hay? What would be missed

>if the escorts did quit

>contributing to the site. We

>would still be posted on

>the other side showing you

>all our glory and the

>in-depth novel like stories you

>left behind for everyone to

>read and decide if that

>works for the next client

>or just to beat off

>to. You say you want us here,

>but yet when we do

>post something it is labeled

>as self-promoting. When we try

>to stand up for our

>integrity as a human being

>we are quickly reminded that

>we where paid our 200

>dollars and to shut up

>and enjoy it. So why

>even bother to pretend to

>care if we leave or

>not.

 

I agree with you that some clients may feel that way, according to what you've read in those posts. But do you honestly think they represent the majority of the clients' views on this board. I cannot agree with you more when you ask clients to stop painting all the escorts with the same brush. So would you be willing to give clients the same consideration? Many posters have mentioned in other threads how much and why they appreciate the contribution of escorts to this message board, and so Im not going to repeat them again. But what is clear to me is that escorts who contribute positively to the message centre have been and still are welcomed and appreciated by many here. :-)

 

>I cant help but notice I

>have been a bit of

>a negative voice here as

>well, but I do ask

>you to look at my

>view point. I am only

>defending and protecting my self-esteem

>and the integrity of others

>in my field. I cant

>help but to get angry

>when things are said to

>make another person feel like

>the only reason he is

>worthy of being in the

>same room as you is

>because you paid for it.

>I will not apologize for

>defending that.

 

I think many of us do understand. In fact, if we look at the thread "Unlucky Experiences" again, we would find a significant number of client-posters who agree with you and support your views and rights described above. :-)

 

>I wonder that

>if after a long period

>of silence from our side

>you ran out of things

>to yap about, probably true.

>I also wonder if there

>where no negative remarks made

>or threads posted what would

>you talk about? I really

>can’t come up with that

>answer. I look at the

>Party Planning thread one more

>time for a really good

>chuckle and you know, you

>boys really are quite funny

>at times, ya cant even

>plan a damn party without

>getting into a screaming bitch

>fight over how fat or

>old the guy next to

>you can be. And you

>really don’t need us?

 

>And you dont need us.

>If we didn’t exist as

>a profession, this site wouldn’t

>exist, and you say you

>don’t need us we need

>you.

 

I think you would agree with me that it is not helpful to think about "who don't need who" or "who needs who more" (once again the "us" versus "them" mentality). I think it's about time for all of us to stop dwelling on such "unprodcutive" issue. I say unproductive because such mentality is not going to help enhance the relationship between clients and escorts. My personal view is that we need each other in one (or more) of the many aspects of our lives.

 

>>So why do you need

>to lump us all in

>the same cookie dough.

 

Ditto. :-)

 

>Keep the reviews in the review site.

 

I'd leave this suggestion for everyone to think about.

 

>PS, right now the number of

>threads posted of Clients v/s

>Escorts on venting their thoughts

>is: (drum roll) Clients: 26

>Escorts: 9

 

Michael, you could be right here again, i.e. there could be disproportional numbers of threads in which clients venting about escorts compared to those where escorts complain about clients. However, does a raw count of those threads really lead us to such conclusion as the only explanation. I'm afraid the answer is NO. For example, if we have 1,000 active members in this message centre, and if 3/4 (i.e. 750) are clients and the remaining 1/4 (i.e. 250) are escorts (I don't have the exact numbers and actual breakdowns, maybe HooBoy would know), and assuming the two groups have the same rate of making complaints about each other, then one would expect the ratio of the client threads versus escort threads making complaints in the message board would be 750:250 (i.e. 3:1 or 27:9). Note that this ratio is very close to the ratio of the raw counts (26:9) that you've obtained in your search. But in this case, there is no disproportional number of complaints for either side.

Now it's not my intention here to demonstrate my math skills or to say whose explanation is right or wrong. What I'm trying to say is that without better "data", it may be premature for anyone to make any definitive conclusion about what those numbers really mean.

 

>Still Making People Smile (they dont

>know about this place) In

>San Diego

 

Finally, I just want to let you know that like many others, I do appreciate your contributions to this board even though we may not agree on every single issue. :-) And from what I've read in both the reviews and the message board, I'm sure you will continue to make people happy and smile. Hopefully, I have the opportunity to go to SD again, meet you in person and learn more about you.

 

JT (I hope I haven't bored you to death. I almost got bored to death myself by watching a boring play in a theatre earlier this evening!) :-(

[Guest JT]

Correction

 

Sigh, emotion icon short cuts can sometimes really screw up numbers or math! LOL

 

>For example, if

>we have 1,000 active members

>in this message centre, and

>if 3/4 (i.e. 750) are

>clients and the remaining 1/4

>(i.e. 250) are escorts (I

>don't have the exact numbers

>and actual breakdowns, maybe HooBoy

>would know), and assuming the

>two groups have the same

>rate of making complaints about

>each other, then one would

>expect the ratio of the

>client threads versus escort threads

>making complaints in the message

>board would be 750:250 (i.e.

>3:1 or 27: 9). Note that

>this ratio is very close

>to the ratio of the

>raw counts (26: 9) that you've

>obtained in your search. But

>in this case, there is

>no disproportional number of complaints

>for either side.

>Now it's not my intention here

>to demonstrate my math skills

>or to say whose explanation

>is right or wrong. What

>I'm trying to say is

>that without better "data", it

>may be premature for anyone

>to make any definitive conclusion

>about what those numbers really

>mean.

 

JT

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

For fear of going on and on about this topic, I will just simply say I will take your points to heart and not bother you folks with my slaps at individuals who write quotes and quips that may cause another to feel less than a human being.

 

 

Michael.

[Guest dcdave]

Michael-

 

Please do not stop posting your wonderful messages. The broadcast industry had a program called the Fairness Doctrine requiring stations to "broadcast the differing views of responsible spokepersons." I thoroughly enjoy and respect your point of view and suspect that everyone with a brain that reveiws this site also shares that same feeling. Keep it up. Can't wait to get to San Diego to meet you in person!

 

Dave

[Guest Jason Reardone]

http://www.JasonReardoneEscort.com

 

I HAVE TO AGAIN SAY BRAVO!! I LEFT THE MESSAGE CENTER FOR THIS VERY REASON. Most importantly I left disheartened over the situation. I do what I do because I want to not because I need to and the converse gut ripping that became known as the Message Center prevented me from promoting, sharing and or validating my experiences, thereby improving the service I can offer.

 

Although it seems to have lightened up(for today). I applaud your view of the situation and most importantly your candor.

<speechless -jason>

[swallows22]

Mate, you got it in one. After reading the first six paragraphs of your epistle, I decided to stop and clean my place instead of going any further. Cheers!

[+ deej]

<<I know there are some really decent people here and trust me I have made a mental note of the ones that support the escort, deej is a very good example, without kissing butt he writes with an objective view in no ones favor. Thank you>>

 

Michael, dear, you can kiss my ass any day. }>

 

Thank you for singling me out but I'm not sure I deserve it. I've been involved in my share of flame wars.

 

This board can get a little wild & wooly at times. (Usually on Fridays or full moons. Really!) But there has been some pretty good discussion here as well. Sure, we have our share of cranks and people who only want to stir up shit but as someone else mentioned you get that in any community.

 

The thing that's bothering ME right now is the "if you don't like it then don't read it" attitude in so many threads. Aside from being rude, it's impractical. You have to read the stuff to decide whether you want to read it.

 

I happen to agree with much of what you say and it has nothing to do with escort vs. client. As a moderator, I have to read a lot more (and with more regularity) than the average poster. I shudder to think what would happen if some of these conversations took place in a bar. Punches would be thrown at the very least. Paramedics would most likely be involved.

 

But I try to look past the negatives. I guess it's a glass half-full or half-empty thing. Go help Boston Guy pick a birthday present for his cousin's kid, tell Talvin DeMachio your favorite things to do with another top, tell Rick Munroe one more way to eat his ass, and ignore the yelling and bitching.

 

It's difficult, but it can be done.

[Guest DCescortBOY]

move over mother theresa... someone is suffering through such martyrdom that he MUST be beatified next.

[Will]

Michael, I, too, would be sorry if you decided to stop posting. You are very right, I think, that much of what goes on here is saddening. Sometimes it helps me to remember that, as a group, gay men are a pretty wounded lot and it isn't surprising that some of that pain comes out in anonymous nastiness. Most of the misery-spreaders are just silly little twits who think they're the Duchess of Windsor because they can turn a head. A few others seem to be truly vicious sociopaths. I can imagine that in real life they are dangerous, because their only discernible intention here is to hurt other people. Every time someone engages them in an exchange, they have won a battle. And every time someone else drops off the board altogether, they've won that particular war.

 

But I don't see that the bad apples fall into the "escort" or "client" barrel. The "we" vs. "them" mentality assumes all (or even most) escorts are one way and all (or even most) clients are another. That attitude does a disservice to everyone. It's unfair to the individuals who don't fit and, more simply, it's unrealistic in the light of many, many posts on this site.

 

A good double handful of regular contributors to this board, escorts and clients alike, do what they can to encourage, to be positive, and to try to keep the discussion both reasonable and helpful. Yes, there are those who don't, and they are loud and insistent. Even so, judging a collective by the bad example of some is not helpful if one really believes in the purpose of the collective. I happen to believe in the purpose of M4M, as I understand it. That's why I post here, and that's why I try not to take something personally, even when it's obviously intended to be taken that way. Most important, M4M would suffer greatly without your contributions, along with those of some of your fellow escorts, among whom are JeffOH, Matt_Vancouver, Joey Ciccone, Talvin De Machio, Rod Hagen, and Rick Munroe, who's always there with a good-natured laugh.

 

Finally, to learn something of the long-term value this board has, look at those threads that begin with an honest question or the candid statement of a dilemma. Several recent ones come to mind: BostonGuy's perplexity over hiring escorts; Godiva's questions to clients who are married to women; a young Californian's wondering a few weeks ago if he is gay because he's attracted to a friend. All of those -- and many, many more – have elicited what in my experience are some of the most compassionate, generous, and warm-hearted discussions among gay men that I've ever encountered. I'm willing to shuck a lot of oysters to find occasional pearls like those.

 

Please don't go away. Please don't fall into "we" vs. "them" thinking. Please continue to say what you think. And, please, pay attention only to those who wish you well. The opinion of people who wish you ill is irrelevant.

[BuckyXTC]

I'm pretty new to the message center, and yes, I have seen quite of bit of negativity and flaming. I've been involved in online chats and message boards for quite a while and try to just ignore the negative stuff and stay positive. I know it's difficult to ignore a direct personal attack, but believe it or not, that's the best way to go. I appreciate the need that a maligned person may have to respond to unwarranted attacks, especially when integrity or professionalism are under fire. But by and large, I have to say my life is hardly defined by what someone might decide to say about me in a negative way. I haven't always been a non-responder to negatives, but that is my strategy now, and it works for me.

 

That said, I want to say how much I have come to appreciate escorts, way above and beyond what they do for folks sexually. I had my first experience with an escort a mere 12 days ago, a second experience a week later, and I'm still basking in the glow of the experience. I've been a very closeted man for most of my life, I'm in my late 40's, and not by the world's standards what one would call a particularly handsome guy. The young escort I met with twice essentially changed my life. I'm not saying I've fallen in love with him or anything like that. What I'm saying is that he helped me explore a side of myself that has lain fallow for too long. I'm grateful to him for that, and while some will say "he only did it for the money" there was more to it than that. I'm grateful to him because at the present time I'm happier than I've been in years. You can't put a price tag on that! Yes, I paid for sex, but I got much more than I could have ever expected.

While my experiences are limited, I'm glad to know that escorts are out there, bringing happiness beyond measure into lives that might be otherwise drab, boring, and sad. Just one opinion.

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

<a young Californian's wondering a few weeks ago if he is gay because he's attracted to a friend. >

 

He didnt post that here did he???? In a gay male for male escorts review site. He knows about a gay male for male escort review site and he is wondering if he is gay???

[Guest cp8036]

SD,

Nice response to the kind words Will sent your way. I'm glad you picked out the most salient points of his post. I echo the comments made by Will. Not too often one can read good points written with such grace and tact. I appreciate all the posts from escorts, as makes for some balance in discussion here.

[mmk]

Well, wasn't this rather interesting. I will try to be brief. I am new to this forum so I hope that some of my various posts did not offend anybody but I do feel that a venue such as this one (or a website dealing with any type of topic) where it does allow people to ask rather candid questions can be helpful. As I have mentioned before, living in the Pittsburgh area where the number of escorts here as opposed to New York, DC, anywhere in California and Florida, etc, is like night and day so to to be able to ask question of any nature , I feel, can be nothing but beneficial. Cliched as it sounds, there is no such thing as a stupid question and if someone does ridicule the question you are asking then, I feel, they are the ones who have unanswered questions that they are too afraid to ask. Anyway, one thing that I have discovered about this forum is that nothing is strictly black and white and my opinion about a few things have changed. And I think that another sad thing is that as human beings, even though many try not to, you are going to go on about a bad experience or rant (as this forum has shown) about an unfavorable review about an escort. Not everyone is going to click with everyone sometimes people might have off nights. That is going to happen. However, one bad review seems to get more notice even though there are ten positive ones about that same person.

[Will]

>That said, I want to say how much I have come to appreciate escorts, way above and beyond what they do for folks sexually.... I've been a very closeted man for most of my life,

I'm in my late 40's, and not by the world's standards what one would call a particularly handsome guy. The young escort I met

with twice essentially changed my life. I'm not saying I've fallen in love with him or anything like that. What I'm saying is that he helped me explore a side of myself that has lain fallow for too long. I'm grateful to him for that, and while

some will say "he only did it for the money" there was more to it than that. I'm grateful to him because at the present time I'm happier than I've been in years. You can't put a price

tag on that!

 

This is exactly the kind of experience that makes M4M such a great site. I think escorting can be (notice: CAN be) a seriously important profession, in the line of any other profession aimed at helping people's minds and spirits. The very best escorts whose clients continually mention them on this board are, indeed, far removed from the money-grubbing hustler. This posting is one of the many reasons why I admire escorts and am both saddened and outraged that their gay "friends" would disparage them for the choices they have made.