What should i do...

[Guest biga]

Hi guys,i need your help with a family problem that has come up and i cannot decide what to do,my eldest brother who i have not spoken to since March 1992 wrote to me today to ask if he could borrow a substanial amount of money $125,000 or he and his family would lose their house.

Now this surprised me somewhat as for the last 9 or so years for him and his family i have been dead as it were,my heinous act

for all ths was being gay and telling my fmily so (some of the gory details can be found in a post by DVS on 11th July 2001 entitled Emotional turmoil in coming out),at the time lots of hurtful things were said and i had adjusted to not having him in my life.

I cannot decide what to do the money is not a problem but i feel why the hell should i bail him out after what was said and done at the time including wishing me and my BF dead ,on the other hand he must be desperate to have even contacted me and i wonder in the back of my mind whether this could be the first step towards a reconciliation of sorts of just the fact that he knows that since he has borrowed money from the rest of my family over the years i am his last resort,i have spoken to other members of my family and other friends and colleagues and at the moment what i am being told is coming out 50/50.

As i said earlier my own feelings are to say no but maybe i am being blinded by what has gone on over the years what do you think........Thanks BIG A(confused)

[Guest HQ1]

I would not give him the money. He abandoned you nearly a decade ago. The only reason he now seeks you out is for your money. What about all of your birthdays, and holidays all times when he could have made a gesture to try to repair the damage he caused.

 

I feel that just because the words 'brother & family' are involved does not obligate you. It takes more than blood to be a family.

[Guest 7Zach]

Don't know what to tell u, will tell u what i did. i was never close to my brother, but hey, it's family. not a bad guy, but bad about keeping his word growing up, etc.

supported him to get a different undergrad degree and then masters, etc. for 1/2 of what ur asked for.

a year later i asked him to help do me do something that would take 3 or 4 days where we grew up. left a message saying he couldn't do it.

found it liberating in that i didn't have to pretend to want to be family or the rest anymore. been 3 years now.

so glad i did it, glad to have helped, and really glad not to have to do anything again.

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

Gee, I would love to be able in a position to say that $125,000 isn't a lot of money. ;-)

 

No, you are not being blind. Your instincts are correct. However, if the loss of the money would not be that much of a hardship, I would offer the following as a possibility for you to consider. Lending the money to your brother is out of the question. It would not be the responsible thing to do. But you could offer to buy his house and let him live in it at a nominal rent (i.e. the interest on the outstanding mortgage(s) ). Think of it as an opportunity to gracefully demonstrate how wrong your brother was in breaking with you.

 

Invite him and his family (wife AND kids) to spend a weekend with you. Take them out, show them a good time, do your best to bond with your sister-in-law and your nieces and nephews. If you see or feel any signs of friendship, remorse or whatever, give my suggestion some consideration. Otherwise, call in your banker or financial advisor and another brother and sister (as mediator) for a meeting and be fair but hard nosed. In the end, you don't owe your brother anything. It's more a question of how much you value your piece of mind.

 

Esc-Tracker

[Guest LG320126]

Could you do it? Apparently so. Should you do it? NO! What you owe your brother is the love that binds you for life, not money. He has not shown you any love or any other support over the past few years and yet has the audacity to come begging for money. Lend him your ear and your moral support but leave the lending of money to the banks.

[Guest DCescortBOY]

blood is thicker than water.

the genuine & real hurt you felt when they abandoned you shouldn't blind you to that.

if you've got the money, i say loan it.

 

you always win when you take the high road. (yeah, given some of my earlier posts, that may seem rich coming from me, but...)

[Paul Revere]

Tough question. My first instinct is to say "Help him out, be the bigger person." But then the important question becomes, does lending/giving him $125,000 really helping him out? It sounds like he is bad with money, and has tapped out all of the other willing sources in your family. Maybe he is just really bad with money, and he lives beyond his means. Maybe losing the house would be the best thing for him. Maybe not getting bailed out of every mess he gets into would be a lesson he needs to learn.

 

Lest I sound to harsh, here, I am kind of making the assumptioon that your brother is bad with money, and expects others to bail him out. If on the other hand, this situation is the result of some kind of medical situation or some other natural disaster or emergency, then help would be the right thing to do.

 

But, letting someone off the hook that they have hung themsleves on is not always helping them.

 

You have a tough decision here, but what ever you decide, you should remain noble, and not let your actions come from bitterness or revenge.

[Guest Charon]

I wouldn't help. Not because I disagree with all the other comments, but to ask and to pretend that all the hurtful words that have passed mean nothing validates them. I don't hear any sense of regret. Sort of a "My brother the fucking fruit, well I guess I gotta go ask the fag for money now. damn."

 

Dropping money into that sort of situation seems like the _wrong_ thing to do whether you can or not.

 

And as other have said, people survive losing a house and learn better of it. I don't like to think what financial mess brought this on, but sometimes serious pain is the only lesson.

 

My younger brother is currently unemployed and I'm helping, but at the end of the day, he put himself there, and he needs to get himself out.

[Guest JT]

I think ET (hehehe, not Speilberg's ET) has some good points here. What I want to add though, is that if I were biga, I need to know how/why his brother got himself into such a financial difficulty. Is he a gambling addict that he owes the money to the loan sharks? Is he living beyond his means? Did he lose his money in an investment scam? As you may agree, lending him money is definitely NOT the solution to his problem. In fact, you may end up not helping him at all because he has not learned his lesson! However, if for example, he needs the money to pay back the bank loans for medical bills/life-saving procedures for himself or his family members, then you may want to consider ET's suggestion or lending him the money.

 

JT

[Guest squaddie]

The first question I would ask myself would be 'can I afford to lose (give away) $125,000. Are you certain he will pay you back?

 

I feel there is an emotional element here too. He has had no contact with you since you came out and here he is, years later, wanting to make contact AND at the same time asks for the loan. It is possible that he believes YOU are hurting over the break up, feeling guilty, and would be willing to do anything, even lending such a large sum of money in order to get everything back to what it used to be? Why did he make first contact by letter? Did he not trust himself enough to pick up the phone in case you sussed him out? I would tread with caution.

 

If you do decide to lend the money, I would go along with Esc_Tracker's suggestion that you buy the house thus taking responsibility for the morgage, and he repays you by paying rent until he has returned the loan when you can then give him back the deeds. This option enables you to lend him the money and safeguard your investment at the same time. That could show him in his true colours. Is he desperate, after your money, and playing the emotional card, or does he genuinely want to make a fresh start? You have to decide.

One final question. Would he have made contact if you weren't in a position to lend him the money?

[Boston Guy]

Normally I think I'd be on the side of lending the money.

 

But lets put this in perspective: if a good friend had completely rejected you in 1992 when you came out to him, had had no contact with you since then, had probably convinced his family not to contact you, and then suddenly shows up and asks to lend him an eighth of a million dollars, would you do it?

 

I know I wouldn't. In fact, I'd probably be tempted to tell him to go to hell and go borrow the money from someone straight.

 

So, on the face of it, I wouldn't lend the money, especially since it seems like you won't get it back. I wouldn't buy the house and rent to them, either, because that puts you in a position of power over them and that will lead to heartache and resentment for sure.

 

Basically, you're being approached as either a sucker or a court of last resort. If it's the former, you should tell him to go to hell. If it's the latter, you have to decide if you want to donate this much money to charity. Don't count on he and his family suddenly embracing you and welcoming you into their lives and changing all their opinions of you and gay people: they might do it to your face, but zebras and people don't change their stripes like that.

 

This guy has treated you badly for almost a decade. Blooder is thicker than water, for sure, but it cuts both ways. If he thought he was going to perhaps need your kindness some day, he should have taken your feelings and your needs into consideration a long time ago.

 

I have a brother that everyone in the family has lent money to. None of it has been repaid. Today, we simply say no. And, you know what? Somehow he gets along.

 

On balance, I wouldn't do it.

 

The only possible reason I'd consider it would be for my parents and the impact this might have on them. If that were strong enough to make me do it, I'd hire a lawyer and let him do all of the negotiating for me and tell my brother that he can negotiate with the lawyer or it's no deal. No way would I negotiate with him myself.

 

Perhaps you'll decide to be a kind brother. Please don't be a stupid one, too.

[Guest Kevin 2]

There are several thoughts in my mind from this post. So here goes

1)I know you said that the money wasn't a problem..and like someone else said, boy I wish I could say 125K isn't a problem! I guess in my mind how much is a $125,00 of what u have? Don't bother answering as thats none of our business but if you have saved all your life and have say $250,000 I don't think I would give away $125,000 real quick like. Do you kinda see where I'm going?

 

2) Doesn't it amaze you when people that "deserted" you when you needed them the most come asking for help from you?

 

3) Before I could offer good advice alot more details are needed. Like other posters have mentioned does your brother really need 125K to bail him out to keep his house? I work in the real estate business and they take your home long before you owe that kind of money. Usually 3-6 months tops and you are forclosed on. Only you know all the details of how your brother handles money,etc...

 

4)I saw on a TV show where in this family one of the kids (she was an adult)won the lottery the BIG ONE, like after taxes she had over 100 million! She had given her brother everything and his life was in shabbles from it. She was heartbroken that he was ruining his life. She finally realized that money wasn't the answer to his problems so she stopped giving him money. In the end when she stopped bailing him out of everything he got his life back in order and both are very happy now.

 

5) One last thought never LEND money to family unless you can live without it being repaid.

[Guest bluboy]

If you can afford to lose it and it is not just a financial black hole, just lend it to him. And do not even bring up the "I cannot believe you did not talk to me when I came out etc." It has nothing to do with him, its more about the person you want to be. Give freely (not foolishly) and it will be returned 10 fold. For me $125K is a lot but $10K is not. So if I psychological say would I give a family member who was losing their house $10K to save it, sure I would. It is tacky to put conditions on it like, well now will you talk to me b/c then what are you doing is buying his acceptance. DO NOT invite them over- that would be the most loser thing to do. If they say, they would like to visit- say sure they are always welcome but do not make talking to you a condition of getting the money. It is they that are crass to ask and you are dignified to respond and want nothing in return. If you say (or think or act), ok accept me now that I have given you money- then you are as crass as they are. blu

[guyinsf]

I initially liked the idea of buying the house and letting the brother pay rent. Of course, this then puts the lender in the uncomfortable position of possibly having to evict his brother in the future for non-payment of rent! (Or let him live rent-free.) I do not think this is the way to go.

 

I am wondering about some of the same things others have posted. How can someone be $125K behind in a mortgage? A bank would have presumably long ago foreclosed on the mortgage. Is your brother being honest with you about what he needs the money for and the amount he actually "needs"?

 

Many years ago, my sister and her two daughters were at risk of having their utilities turned off for non-payment. I called her utility company, got the balance and payment address, and sent the check directly to the utility company. If your brother really needs help with his mortgage, and you want to give it to him, get his consent to talk with his lender and find out what he currently owes. Before doing so, however, you might want to talk with your brother about whether he can really afford to live there. There is no reason to make overdue payments if he's simply going to be in the same position within the coming year.

 

Perhaps the best use of your money, if you want to help him out at all, would be to pay for a financial/credit consultant for him and his family. Ask him to sign a release so that consultant can talk with you. If he balks at you getting so much information about his financial status, I would be suspicious. He is asking you to bail him out, like a parent might bail out a child. If he's not adult enough to have not gotten into this situation, and you are adult enough to be able to lend him a substantial amount of money, then your involvement in financial planning is an added benefit to him.

 

As others have mentioned, however, if his situation is due to some unforeseen emergency (huge medical bills or natural disaster that was not covered by insurance), I would give whatever I could afford to lose.

 

As to whether you should link any of this with his prior treatment of you, only you can answer that question for yourself. I think what you are struggling with, however, is whether he and his family still actively wish ill on you and think badly of you, even while they are asking for $125K. I have to say that I would have a hard time handing over ANY amount of money to someone who still thinks I should be dead (and acts as if I am dead) because I'm gay, family or not.

[Guest Jocoluver]

I said to my psychotherapist, "Blood is thicker than water."

 

He answered, "So is shit."

[Bilbo]

Everyone is focusing on the relationship between you and your brother. To me, the way he's acted, I'd say forget about him. However, I think its equally or more important to focus on the possible future relationships with his children.

 

That said, he has really put you into a position, if they know what is going on. You can be the horrible man who wouldn't loan them the money and they lost the house. You can be the horrible man who loaned them the money and is now requiring Daddy to pay you back so they can't .. (go to Dizzyland?) And, if you buy the house, which is my favorite solution so far, you can be the horrible man who evicts them. Is there a solution at all which will salvage your relationship with them, even though it hasn't started yet (presumably)?

 

This is the point at which I should bail because I'm afraid on this subject while I might be one of those who can come up with the good questions, don't count on me for good answers. However, I will be upset at myself for a couple of hours if I don't suggest that you buy the house and make it a gift to the children. It's wierd, it's probably wrong, but it's the best I could think of on a Saturday morning before breakfast.

[Guest DCescortBOY]

what an amazingly professional & caring therapist you have!

[Guest WetDream]

Remember that old saying"

 

"No good deed goes unpunished."

[BewareofNick]

>blood is thicker than water.

>the genuine & real hurt you

>felt when they abandoned you

>shouldn't blind you to that.

 

I've really got to take exception to this statement. No one owes anyone anything based on the fact that they share genetics. The genuine and real hurt he felt when they abandoned him is not blinding him to anything.

 

Maybe you cannot appreciate this persepctive, but as an adopted child, I can tell you that blood is indeed NOT thicker than water. I was taken from my biological mother, along with my brother and sister, at the tender age of 13 by the state of Florida. We had lived on and off for years in seedy motel rooms and on the street. We never had anything. She would be gone for days at a time, leaving us to fend for ourselves. She would bring a new boyfriend around every few months, generally someone who was physically abusive to everyone. Finally, we were fortunate enough to be taken into a children's home in Orlando.

 

My brother and I were adopted within a year. My sister decided not to be adopted (she was 16 at the time) and she ran away from the children's home, returning to our mother when she turned 18. My sister has been supporting her ever since, along with her own three children.

 

My brother and I were adopted by wonderful parents and we were not bothered by my mother or sister for almost 10 years. Then one day they came back into our lives because guess what: they needed money. I helped them out for a little while, but it turned into an endless money pit. My own bills were getting behind, I was doing poorly in school and they were just generally making my life miserable. They only called when they wanted money. I got into long arguements with them about being adopted. They accused me of being disloyal to the family. I should have stayed with them and if nothing else, abandoned my adoptive parents when I turned 18. My 'mother' guilted me with stories of how I promised to always take care of her (I believe I made that statement at the age of 7). I went to my adoptive parents for advice. They told me I had to do what my heart told me was right, but in their opinion, I owed her and my sister nothing. So, I cut them off. My sister came over to my apartment and we had a screaming match for an hour. I would not see her again for many years or my 'mother'.

 

And when they called again, guess what? They wanted money. They didn't get it.

 

My advice: Don't loan your brother the money. He made his decision about you 9 years ago. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. He's borrowed money from all your other relatives and probably never paid them back. You'll never see that cash again. Of course, I do like the idea of you buying the house and charging him rent. Maybe he'll learn to respect you and it might give you the chance to get to know your nieces and nephews.

 

But blood thicker than water? No. Family is about what's in your heart, not in your DNA.

[Guest Kevin 2]

That was a good answer and funny also! ;-)

[Guest]

It's very difficult for me to imagine a situation in which you would achieve anything constructive by helping them out financially. Your brother has obviously completely run out of people to piss off. Even if the reason for his financial devastation is a medical catastrophy--and I would highly doubt that even if he told you that was the reason, and he probably will tell you that's the reason--he has obviously run out of people to bail him out of trouble. This includes other family members, friends, and banks.

What's going on here is that your brother has gotten himself into financial mess, almost certainly through bad judgment (yes, even financial problems due to medical catastrophes represent bad judment, since it's bad judgment to let your family go without health insurance). Through repeated acts of irresponsibility, he has run out of people/financial institutions who are willing to lend him money. Your brother is thinking "My dumb-ass fag brother's got plenty of money. Let's screw him, too." Like Beware of Nick's family, he's pulling on your guilt feelings to screw you out of your money. If you think he suddenly cares about you as family, think again. He may have even written to you in his letter "I realize what a fool I was to write you off as dead. I was just confused. I really love you as a good brother," although your posting doesn't mention it. This would just be classic manipulation.

As a physician who works with poor people, I see the negative consequences of enabling behavior every day. I remarked to a colleague (who happens to be an enabler) the other day: "Boy, I have this patient who's quite an entrenched alcoholic. He said he walked almost 3 miles to see me because he couldn't afford the bus fare, but he drinks a six pack daily."

She replied, within earshot of two nurses, "Oh, I wish I would have known. I'd have given him a ride home!" The nurses and I were rolling on the floor in laughter. My colleague might as well have offered the patient another six pack (which he would have appreciated a lot more).

Yes, catastrophes do occur to good people, and in those cases it's both helpful and appropriate to help them out. One of the nurses at work got a horrible illness, and we're all pitching in. Your brother, on the other hand, has demonstrated a continual pattern of bad judgment and obnoxious behavior. His writing you off as dead for almost a decade, and the fact that he has run out of people to piss off both attest to this. His current financial situation hasn't suddenly made him respect you. Quite the contrary.

Even if you want to help him out, giving him the $125,000 (and be under no illusions that any "loan" of $125,000 will be anything but a gift) will be no different than giving the alcoholic a ride home so he can buy his six-pack tomorrow. The alcoholic needs, at some point, to realize how alcohol is hurting, not helping, his life. Likewise, your brother will not change his behavior or his opinion of you (nor will he benefit in any long-term way) by a handout.

[Guest]

>what an amazingly professional & caring

>therapist you have!

 

 

Yes, his therapist was professional and caring. He made and accurate and pointed observation, and expressed it in a way the patient understood and appreciated.

[CT Dick]

Unicorn brought up a good point.

 

If your brother's position is soooo bad, why isn't the rest of your family helping him. Their reasons for letting him get thrown onto the street would be interesting to consider before making your decision.

 

Dick

[Guest delhi]

A number of people have raised the issue of whether your brother could really be faced with an immediate need for such a large sum in order to keep his house. Perhaps some are not aware that there are such things as balloon payments. At any rate, it is easy enough for you to ask to see the loan documents so that you can verify whatever he has told you. You should do that in any case to make sure that giving him the money will not give the lender the idea to come directly to you if more payments must be made in the future.

 

In the culture in which I was raised nothing is more important than family. All other relationships are transitory. Family is forever. No matter what he said or did to you in the past nothing can change the fact that your brother is still the child of your mother and father and the time will come when he and your other siblings if any are the only connection you have with your parents. That of course does not mean you should always do whatever they ask of you. If you suspect he wants to reconcile with you, meet him and see for yourself. If you believe he is sincere in wanting a relationship with you then give him what he needs.

[Guest bigTom]

Doing something out of guilt alone is futile, frustrating, and fruitless. You will end up angry with yourself and your brother. Doing something to help out of true compassion is commendable, but giving/lending money to a loser will not change them.