Today's review of Sebastian 1/29/03

[ready4boi]

Love Bubble Butt,

 

You are not alone. There are lots of guys out there who get off doing that. I get into that often too! Frottage actually is another kind of sex and not a fetish like some often mistake it to be. Just like anal sex and oral sex, frottage is also classified as sex when it is done to orgasm because there is an exchange of bodily fluids. While not as popular as anal and oral, it is unusual to be the only kind of sex one would choose to strictly engage in over the others. Also just like anal and oral sex, frottage can also be interchangable with foreplay meaning it can be done as a warmup for another sex act.

 

Sorry I went off on a tangent but I wanted to add what I know about Sebastian. As someone who has frequented the Gaiety for over twenty years until finally having a conflict of interest with the place two and a half years ago, I do remember Sebastian and the fact he's been dancing there for years so I don't think I'd consider him a newbie escort by any means. When I had gone with him, he did exactly as the reviewer described with me, and I was basically satisfied. The fact he was honest about it was all that mattered to me. Just like so many of the Gaiety dancers, he has set up boundaries and if you don't like it, that's not going to matter much. They won't change just for you. Plenty of other patrons will still hire him. You can bet on that.

[Guest Love Bubble Butt]

> Also just like anal and oral sex,

> frottage can also be interchangable

> with foreplay meaning it can be done

> as a warmup for another sex act.

 

Yup! Often times before I fuck a guy, I'll climb onto him missionary style and rub my dick against his dick before putting on a condom and fucking him. It gets me really turned on. But I have to be careful that I don't get too turned on (which has happened) if you know what I mean! x(

[Guest Love Bubble Butt]

> Also just like anal and oral sex,

> frottage can also be interchangable

> with foreplay meaning it can be done

> as a warmup for another sex act.

 

Yup! Often times before I fuck a guy, I'll climb onto him missionary style and rub my dick against his dick before putting on a condom and fucking him. It gets me really turned on. But I have to be careful that I don't get too turned on (which has happened) if you know what I mean! x(

[CT Dick]

>Yup! Often times before I fuck a guy, I'll climb onto him

>missionary style and rub my dick against his dick before

>putting on a condom and fucking him.

 

Or, with my cock between his legs, under his balls. I've had more that one session end at that point. ;-)

 

Dick

[CT Dick]

>Yup! Often times before I fuck a guy, I'll climb onto him

>missionary style and rub my dick against his dick before

>putting on a condom and fucking him.

 

Or, with my cock between his legs, under his balls. I've had more that one session end at that point. ;-)

 

Dick

[Guest buttlvr]

As much as I like to top and penetrate muscular bubblebutt escorts, I can enjoy just as much through simulated topping. It's where I slide my penis between the escort's butt crack while he clenches his glutes as I rock back and forth. I can get off on this even easier than actual penetration. So if I meet an escort who does this and allows rimming then I am satisfied.

[woodlawn]

>>The question is, is the market big enough to allow one to

>sell

>>enough of the product to make a living? In this case, my

>>guess is the answer is no. Unless you have some polling

>data

>>showing that there are a large number of men willing to pay

>>substantial amounts for nothing more than foreplay when

>there

>>are plenty of hookers who will do much more for the same

>>money, I have no reason to think my opinion is inaccurate.

>

 

 

>Since you're the one claiming to know what "most" clients are

>willing to spend substantial amounts for, shouldn't you be the

>one producing polling data?

 

Since that is not at all what I said (and my actual words are shown above) I would really appreciate it if you would refrain from telling fibs about my posts. I know it's easier for you to respond to something you make up than to what I really wrote, but I'm just not inclined to let that go.

 

 

>All you have to go on, really, is

>that you're projecting your own sexual interests onto others.

 

Well, no, that's not all I have to go on. I also have the vast number of reviews on this website in which the reviewer makes it perfectly clear that he expects and wants to have intercourse or at least oral, two things that Sebastian refuses to do. I could be wrong, but my impression is that only a minority of reviews don't fit that description. Is that a scientific sample of the universe of johns? No. But it's a much larger quantum of evidence than you or anyone else on the other side of the debate has produced. So your statement that I have nothing to go on but my own desires is clearly wrong.

 

>What's more, for clients who like men of Sebastian's height

>and build, there probably actually are NOT "plenty of hookers"

>in his market who both match up to his looks and build AND who

>do "much more" for the same rate.

 

I have met at least a dozen over the past two years, so I can't go along with that statement either. Of course, "his market" includes both New York and South Florida, which covers a lot of territory.

[ad rian]

>As much as I like to top and penetrate muscular bubblebutt

>escorts, I can enjoy just as much through simulated topping.

>It's where I slide my penis between the escort's butt crack

>while he clenches his glutes as I rock back and forth. I can

>get off on this even easier than actual penetration. So if I

>meet an escort who does this and allows rimming then I am

>satisfied.

 

Me too! Satisfied, but let me get inside that crack? That's a completely different sensation....! I always think an escort should offer a discount for what you describe. (Of course, I have found it difficult for both parties to avoid the obvious attraction....!)

[Guest Bitchboy]

>Me too! Satisfied, but let me get inside that crack? That's

>a completely different sensation....! I always think an

>escort should offer a discount for what you describe. (Of

>course, I have found it difficult for both parties to avoid

>the obvious attraction....!)

 

Am I the only one who gags at the thought of this imbecile having an orgasm? - I mean the Jew hater, of course, not the hot Sebastian.

[ad rian]

>Am I the only one who gags at the thought of this imbecile

>having an orgasm? - I mean the Jew hater, of course, not the

>hot Sebastian.

 

Baby, unlike yours mine are not Viagra induced! (And by the way I hate not the Jews, but the Zionists and their ethnic fellow tribesmen who support torture and occupation! Es tu?)

:+

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>I know it's easier for you

>to respond to something you make up than to what I really

>wrote, but I'm just not inclined to let that go.

 

I did respond to what you "really wrote." I was referring to your first post on this thread:

 

'I can't imagine why anyone would pay $200 for a hooker who refuses to have sex. "Making out" may have been a thrill in high school but most of us want rather more than that at this stage of our lives. I suspect your friend will eventually have to change his policy or take another job to make ends meet.'

 

Who is the 'us' you were speaking of if not clients?

 

>>All you have to go on, really, is

>>that you're projecting your own sexual interests onto others.

 

>I also have the

>vast number of reviews on this website in which the reviewer

>makes it perfectly clear that he expects and wants to have

>intercourse or at least oral, two things that Sebastian

>refuses to do. I could be wrong, but my impression is that

>only a minority of reviews don't fit that description.

 

First you claim you weren't speaking for most clients, then you carry on with trying to persuade me that what you said IS true of most clients. You just go ahead and take as long as you need to make up your mind. At any rate, Sebastian doesn't need to be hired by "most" clients to make ends meet.

 

>Is that a scientific sample of the universe of johns? No. But

>it's a much larger quantum of evidence than you or anyone else

>on the other side of the debate has produced.

 

Wrong. I have spoken from my experience in running precisely the kind of business you are claiming Sebastian won't be able to run. duke37 pointed out the fact that Gaiety dancers, one of which Sebastian used to be, charge upwards of $200 and impose similar limits for shorter meetings with clients. Those are two examples which show that it is quite possible indeed that Sebastian will be able to make ends meet. They stack up quite nicely against your speculation about what most reviews on this site say.

 

>Of course, "his

>market" includes both New York and South Florida, which covers

>a lot of territory.

 

A fact which makes your prediction that he won't be able to scrape together a living in all that territory all the more bizarre. The ability of escorts to travel and constantly tap into new markets is just one reason why, despite what you would prefer to believe, we don't have to choose between making a living and working within our individual limits. Sure, those who have suggested he could earn more money if he topped have a point (though this would be contingent on his ability to perform, and not get reviews saying that he couldn't. Until he knows he can deliver on that front he's better off not promising to do so). But the idea that he has to either fuck, get fucked or suck cock even to make ends meet as an escort just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If he markets himself well and delivers the goods within the limits he's laid out, he'll do better than make ends meet.

[ad rian]

>Until he knows he can deliver on that front he's

>better off not promising to do so). But the idea that he has

>to either fuck, get fucked or suck cock even to make ends meet

>as an escort just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If he markets

>himself well and delivers the goods within the limits he's

>laid out, he'll do better than make ends meet.

 

Maybe, but that's a very sad commentary on the clients that are "satisfied" with such services. Out of curiosity, what's the average age of clients whose apetites are satisfied in that fashion? They sound very pathetic to me!

[Guest feisty1]

>Maybe, but that's a very sad commentary on the clients that

>are "satisfied" with such services. Out of curiosity, what's

>the average age of clients whose apetites are satisfied in

>that fashion? They sound very pathetic to me!

 

For many people, the notion of someone willing to pay for sex sounds pathetic.

 

--Michael

<N.P. "Love Has No Pride" - Linda Ronstadt>

[woodlawn]

>I did respond to what you "really wrote." I was referring to

>your first post on this thread:

 

Really? Then how come you quoted not from that post but from a later one and put your remarks directly under that later quote?

 

>Who is the 'us' you were speaking of if not clients?

 

Are all gay men "clients?" Perhaps from your point of view. But your point of view is far from universal.

 

 

>First you claim you weren't speaking for most clients, then

>you carry on with trying to persuade me that what you said IS

>true of most clients.

 

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. Why would I care what you think?

 

>You just go ahead and take as long as

>you need to make up your mind.

 

I believe I said in the very paragraph you quoted that the reviews I mentioned do NOT make up a scientific sample. Did you miss that part? Here it is again:

 

>>Is that a scientific sample of the universe of johns? No.

>But

>>it's a much larger quantum of evidence than you or anyone

>else

>>on the other side of the debate has produced.

 

 

>Wrong. I have spoken from my experience in running precisely

>the kind of business you are claiming Sebastian won't be able

>to run.

 

First, you also tell us that in your business you DO offer the services that Sebastian refuses to offer. So although you claim your experience augurs well for his prospects, your experience does not provide a good analogy. Second, it's ridiculous for you to generalize from your experience, which includes only a minuscule portion of the total interactions of that type in a country the size of this one.

 

 

> duke37 pointed out the fact that Gaiety dancers, one

>of which Sebastian used to be, charge upwards of $200 and

>impose similar limits for shorter meetings with clients.

>Those are two examples which show that it is quite possible

>indeed that Sebastian will be able to make ends meet. They

>stack up quite nicely against your speculation about what most

>reviews on this site say.

 

They stack up? But I don't see any data showing that the dancers you speak of are actually able to make a living doing that. And that's what we're discussing.

 

 

>If he markets

>himself well and delivers the goods within the limits he's

>laid out, he'll do better than make ends meet.

 

Now who's speculating?

[duke37]

>They stack up? But I don't see any data showing that the

>dancers you speak of are actually able to make a living doing

>that. And that's what we're discussing.

 

Okay got it. And since we are discussing what it takes to make a living it can apply to any escort.

 

Before we get started how much money do you think constitutes making a living? I assume for the purpose of this discussion that Sebastian or any other similar guy chooses to do this full time and not maintain some other job.

 

For clarity woodlawn may we agree that except if you are an escort on this site "us" means clients? I read your previous posts in this thread and also thought them to refer to clients rather than gay men in general.

 

This is for everyone. Is anyone aware of any real statistical data on what activities gay men in America do and do not think constitute sex? OR what gay men in America think about prostitution?

 

Thanks

 

Jeff

[woodlawn]

>Before we get started how much money do you think constitutes

>making a living?

 

I think the Labor Department publishes figures on the differential cost of living in each metropolitan area. If you're interested in the issue, why not look them up? If we're talking about the dancers you referred to, I assume they are located in the New York metropolitan area.

 

>I assume for the purpose of this discussion

>that Sebastian or any other similar guy chooses to do this

>full time and not maintain some other job.

 

I think that's a fair interpretation of the statement that one can "make a living doing" something.

 

>For clarity woodlawn may we agree that except if you are an

>escort on this site "us" means clients? I read your previous

>posts in this thread and also thought them to refer to clients

>rather than gay men in general.

 

No we mayn't. I can think of a several regulars here who (according to them) are gay men but not clients or escorts.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>First, you also tell us that in your business you DO offer the

>services that Sebastian refuses to offer. So although you

>claim your experience augurs well for his prospects, your

>experience does not provide a good analogy.

 

It provides an excellent analogy because I also indicated that if you exclude the appointments in which I was actually asked to provide those services I still more than make ends meet. This shows that it is possible to make a living on a limited menu of services.

 

>Second, it's

>ridiculous for you to generalize from your experience, which

>includes only a minuscule portion of the total interactions of

>that type in a country the size of this one.

 

You are the one generalizing from your experience -- or, more accurately, from your inability to imagine why someone would derive sufficient enjoyment from activities you dismiss as 'foreplay.' I don't need to make any generalizations and wasn't making any. I merely pointed out that my experience shows that it is not impossible to make a living offering the services Sebastian offers. You're the one generalizing that it must be impossible.

 

>But I don't see any data showing that the

>dancers you speak of are actually able to make a living doing

>that.

 

LOL -- fine, if you don't want to believe the Gaiety boys can make a living doing what they do, no one's going to force you. Anyone familiar with how things work at the Gaiety knows those boys do just fine.

[Guest newawlens]

>I guess that means you wouldn't be interested in buying my

>Readers Digest collection of best loved melodies

 

Finally, someone with a sense of humor!

:7

[Guest Pulsator]

RE: Demand for Sebastian

 

Just to drop a note of realism into all this. . . I've been exchanging email with Sebastian to make a date for his return trip to NYC, which is advertised on his website but, at least as of this morning, not on the Escort Travels part of this Message Center. I was a little perturbed when several days passed without any response from him to my email.

Then today I heard from him. In response to my review posted a few days ago and the conversation here in the Message Center, he has been positively flooded with emails and is trying to work through them and figure out whom to make appointments with.

So much for the comment that a person imposing the limitations he imposes would not be able to make a living at this.

Different strokes for different folks... There are plenty of guys would would be very happy to "make out" with a gorgeous, friendly guy like Sebastian, even if it does not include anal or mutual oral. There is so much that two imaginative guys, sensitive to the erotic possibilities of touch, can do with each other to produce real excitement and heat, and that has the additional merit of being safe from serious exposure to some (unfortunately not all) sexually-transmitted diseases, that I'm sure Sebastian will do quite well with guys who are looking for that. And if he wants to expand what he's willing to do, he'll certainly find ready patrons.

[woodlawn]

>It provides an excellent analogy because I also indicated that

>if you exclude the appointments in which I was actually asked

>to provide those services I still more than make ends meet.

>This shows that it is possible to make a living on a limited

>menu of services.

 

Not quite. You leave out the fact that all of the people who contacted you were aware that you are (were?) a full-service escort. So to prove your point it would be necessary to separate out those who contacted you for that reason from those who didn't.

 

>You are the one generalizing from your experience

 

That is false. I'm not generalizing at all. I'm citing reviews written by dozens and dozens of other people that fit the description I've given. And in case you've overlooked this, the very review of Sebastian that is the subject of this thread also fits the description I've given, since the reviewer specifically stated that he normally expects more from an escort.

 

-- or, more

>accurately, from your inability to imagine why someone would

>derive sufficient enjoyment from activities you dismiss as

>'foreplay.'

 

What I really find it hard to imagine is why someone would pay more for less. Throwing money away has never made sense to me.

 

 

>I don't need to make any generalizations and

>wasn't making any. I merely pointed out that my experience

>shows that it is not impossible to make a living offering the

>services Sebastian offers. You're the one generalizing that

>it must be impossible.

 

On the contrary, you have generalized both from your own experience, which as I've pointed out is not really analogous to that of someone who offers a different combination of services, and from the experience of the performers at a strip club in New York.

 

 

>LOL -- fine, if you don't want to believe the Gaiety boys can

>make a living doing what they do, no one's going to force you.

> Anyone familiar with how things work at the Gaiety knows

>those boys do just fine.

 

Indeed I'm not too familiar with that particular strip joint. The only thing I recall about it is that it was lately the subject of an argument between FFF and some other posters on the issue of whether the performers there should be called 'dancers' or 'whores.' I'm not sure what that was all about, but it stuck in my mind because of FFF's very amusing remark about Twyla Tharp.

 

And I certainly can't claim to have seen the financial records of the, uh, dancers there, which is the only way I or anyone could actually have accurate information about how they 'do' in terms of making a living. Without that information any claim about how they 'do' would of course be nothing but bullshit.

[taylorky]

thats tummy fucking........jeesssssshhhhhhhhhh i thought everybody did that. butt fucking sucks but tummy fucking is really cool.taylorky@01:25-02/03/03

[Guest Love Bubble Butt]

Tummy Fucking? huh ... hadn't heard it called that before. Years ago I've had two different guys rub their dicks on my abs and came! I was really surprised by this the first time (thought it odd), but didn't think much of it the second time. I was kinda pissed because they came really quick and I thought we were still in the foreplay part. Stupid me. Anyway, is this what you are referring to Taylor?

 

I've also heard grinding your cock against another guy's cock as "cock fighting" and "sword fighting." As a top, this can be a blast with another top!

 

:9

[Guest feisty1]

Interesting ... many comments made in this thread have found their way to Sebastian's website: http://www.hotmusclegod.com/

 

I don't think it qualifies as "false advertising." The comments made in this thread are in a sub-section called "Postings," separated from the reviews proper (or review proper, since there is only one right now). Still, it's a little disconcerting seeing something you wrote show up on an escort's website as an implied endorsement, when you've never actually laid eyes on the escort in the flesh.

 

--Michael

<N.P. "Information Travels Faster" - Death Cab for Cutie>

[guyinsf]

I agree that it's a little odd of him to quote the posts here, but I was once again impressed by his honesty. He didn't edit posts to make it seem like people were saying things they weren't. He included unflattering statements from this thread as well as flattering ones.

 

I like what appears to be genuine integrity. He also appears to have some modesty, notwithstanding his choice of "hotmusclegod" as his website name.

 

I still think that he LOOKS incredible sexy.

[Guest Pulsator]

From my one experience with him, I would say that Sebastian is a very open and honest young man, so if he's going to link to conversations in the Message Center from his website, he's unlikely to censor the conversation. He wants people to know his limits on what he will do, to avoid awkwardness when he actually meets people.

Those interested in reading more reactions to him should note that more discussion has come up in the recent thread on Jon Ramsey.