Escorts "real names" and" Stalkers"

[Flower]

RE: Escorts

 

With all due respect, most of your arguments don't make sense, and the issue here is far deeper than kids calling adults by sur names with a prefix--there the identity is in fact known. Nor is wearing a seat-belt akin to what is going on in this sometimes complex relationship.

 

The bottom line however, is that it is everyone's right to withhold his identity in the escort/client relationship. And it is everyone's right to call off the relationship if that happens and the identity is important to one's side of the relationship. These are choices we make depending on how our needs are being satisfied for both the client and the escort.

 

There are reasons that BOTH escorts and clients may want their anonymity, however, and if it becomes an issue for either one, then the other has to decide which is more important--privacy for this particular client/escort relationship. And btw, stalking and safety is NOT a one way street.

 

But I can't see the "true identity" issue even coming up unless there are more than a couple meetings. By that time, either party should be able to evaluate the relative safety and trust involved. If after a few meetings, trust and safety are still issues, then why meet again anyway, unless it is just pure and simple sex and then who cares about a name! But a lot of escort/client relationships are about much more than sex and become more complex by their very nature.

 

I am very protective of my identity until I reach the point of trust with an escort--without exception. Something has to happen that allows me to really trust him before I reveal my name. This isn't like going and buying a pack of (ugh) cigarettes and the clerk sees your name on the credit card. The client many times is closeted and or in a business or occupation where his hiring an escort would be something he wants kept a secret. The escort has issues similar if he has a day job and may even be concerned about IRS or local police, despite the disclaimer that it's for time only :+ Both have legitimate concerns about safety and stalking and ID being revealed to friends, family and employers, and family being possibly harassed, although I feel many of these are more imagined than real.

 

I feel it is only fair that if I know an escorts name, then he know mine, such as buying a plane ticket for him--but then, for me, that doesn't happen until a forming of trust has occurred on my part (yeah yeah, I know--I posted about the one exception;) and hopefully the escorts. But the reverse is true also--if the escort knows my name, then I would like to know his--and yes it does put things on a more personal level, but when you start sleeping with someone overnight, or traveling with someone or spending the weekend with them, you have already escalated the relationship to a more personal level than just a 1 or 2 night stand in a hotel room.

 

Call me old fashion, but if I'm sleeping with someone, or spending the weekend with him, I sure as hell wanna know his name and I don't hesitate to tell him mine. But I won't do any of those things with someone I don't trust VERY much--not even an overnighter.

 

And one last thought--I have found that the less trusting someone is even after you get to know them well, the less they should be trusted. The person that is the first to call another a thief without basis, is usually projecting or protecting

 

Flower :*

[Guest Bitchboy]

RE: Escorts

 

For me at least the biggest mistake one can make in hiring escorts is to romanticize the experience. When I've hired escorts (and admittedly my experience is limited) it's been about pure sex. Needing to know someone's name seems to take it into the next stratosphere, in which romance and friendship and dare I say love take up residence. I think it's a big mistake to consider an escort a friend. I'm not into fucking my friends (well, there was that once, and then my b/f who is perhaps my closest friend ). It seems dangerous to me to want to take these relationships to a higher level. I'm sure it has happened and perhaps it even happens more than I realize. However, I've just finished reading an insightful book by Rick Whitaker titled "Assuming the Position." In it he details his experiences as an escort along with a lot of philosphical peeks into his pysche. I suspect more escorts agree with his way of seeing the profession than not. I highly recommend it as a thoughtful read by an excellent writer.

[SexualAlchemist]

RE: Escorts

 

As my grandmother would have said, "A gram of prevention is worth a tonne of cure".

 

One of my housemates was stalked years back. He was terrified, I was terrified, our other housemates were terrified. It was not pretty. We were not happy. It was weird, disturbing, uncomfortable, and scary.

 

I must agree with CJ. It's the stalking itself that's terrifying, even if no physical harm comes of it.

 

I'd not want to link my personal safety in matters of human relations to mere statistics. That may be okay when pondering the purchase of cigarettes (which cannot form intentions), but when dealing with the vagaries of human psychology no statistic can act as a substitute for the complexities of personal experience and the subtle perceptions of one's "gut feelings".

[Traveler North]

RE: Escorts

 

Kalifornia - Even if the answers to your many questions are in the negative, it seems to me that it is the escort's right to keep his real name private if he prefers. There may be some very good reasons for doing so, and as a client, I do not feel it reflects negatively on the escort. If they wish to give me their real name -Fine. If not, I respect their right of privacy even if I may see them regularly. And for a client to try to discover the escort's real name when not freely given, for whatever reason is, to me, sick.

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: Escorts

 

>As my grandmother would have said, "A gram of prevention is

>worth a tonne of cure".

>

>One of my housemates was stalked years back. He was

>terrified, I was terrified, our other housemates were

>terrified. It was not pretty. We were not happy. It was

>weird, disturbing, uncomfortable, and scary.

>

>I must agree with CJ. It's the stalking itself that's

>terrifying, even if no physical harm comes of it.

>

>I'd not want to link my personal safety in matters of human

>relations to mere statistics. That may be okay when

>pondering the purchase of cigarettes (which cannot form

>intentions), but when dealing with the vagaries of human

>psychology no statistic can act as a substitute for the

>complexities of personal experience and the subtle

>perceptions of one's "gut feelings".

 

New poster, nicely worded, first post, untypical thread for first time poster, AKA is?

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: Escorts

 

>Kalifornia - Even if the answers to your many questions are

>in the negative, it seems to me that it is the escort's

>right to keep his real name private if he prefers. There

>may be some very good reasons for doing so, and as a client,

>I do not feel it reflects negatively on the escort. If they

>wish to give me their real name -Fine. If not, I respect

>their right of privacy even if I may see them regularly. And

>for a client to try to discover the escort's real name when

>not freely given, for whatever reason is, to me, sick.

 

TN I don't argue that it is an escorts right to keep his name private. I am sure that many of these guys have very good reasons to do so. I think CJ is really BS though.

 

I do want to point out one thing, under certain circumstances, a client has the right to find out who an escort is for the clients safety. We are just a little too one sided about the escorts safety.

 

How many clients have been harmed by escorts v escorts harmed by clients? I do not have the stats on this, though from my work experience I have seen far more clients harmed by an escort and too ashame to acknowledge what really happened.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

Hi Kalifornia if you live in a world where the "police" are there when you need them then congratulations...

 

I know that your world is free of stalkers and murderers and although I do not normally live in fear of these people I do become nervous when people go to unusual efforts to determine my indentity on a second meeting, there are other indicators of trouble as well like possesiveness,control and pet names.

 

I know that you are probably clowning around when you ask your questions because we did have a very friendly man in Chicago who murdered and buried 33 young men in his basement..Mr John W Gacy. Mr Gacy was so unlike Jeffery Dalmer who also preyed on gay men... I am afraid that I do not agree with your position and will not close with a jaded comment as you have done...

 

be safe and sound in your perspective,

 

CJ

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

Hi Kalifornia "is this your given name or a name you just use here for some reason?"

 

Seeing as I am the one you are calling a liar or full of BS perhaps you could tell anser me one questions.....

 

What have I to gain from alerting other escorts about a potential problem and sharing an odd experience and a way to protect your identity?

 

I do not think that I have met you and wonder what drives a person to question someone they do not know and judge them in a public forum.

 

I am sure that some clients have been injured or threatened and that there is potential for problems and physical violence at times..thankfully I have not experienced this personally and I hope I never do.

 

One thing that is paramount in any relationship is respect and trust...these are things that do not happen overnight but build over time and shared experiences...I would suggest to you that you consider reviewing all the posts that I have made here and you will find that most if not all help to protect and ensure the safety security and anonymity of both clients and escorts..some information is kept private for a reason and I am sure that is why you parents gave you the name Kalifornia and why you use it in this venue...

 

I wish you peace and happiness and safety in all your future encounters...

 

later<smile>

 

CJ

 

P.S. please try not to JUDGE people so harshly and make UNFOUNDED COMMENTS on someone integrity it turns people off and reflects poorly...

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

thats workable and if I see someone for a long time or we are going to establish a long term committment and it is important to my client then I would reveal my first name. But again that is voluntary and not deceptive and sneaky...especially when they have already been told no because there behaviour was suspicious

 

thanks for the input

 

later<smile>

 

CJ

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Escorts

 

>How many clients have been harmed by escorts v escorts

>harmed by clients? I do not have the stats on this, though

>from my work experience I have seen far more clients harmed

>by an escort

 

You're lying Kal.

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

I agree wholeheartedly but the problem is that there are those out there with personality disorders that make them problems or potential problems and a fake name seems to work for everyone in Hollywood and porn....my issue was with the unusual extent that this party went to "discover" my name after he had been denied the information...a long term client no problem I know them they know me..a second meeting with reservations...not a good thing and something that I found intrusive and representative of another potential problem

 

later<smile>

 

CJ

 

[http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/cjtoronto.html]

[http://www.coverboy.net]

e mail at [email protected]

[SexualAlchemist]

RE: Escorts

 

>New poster, nicely worded, first post, untypical thread for

>first time poster, AKA is?

>Mark -Kalifornia

 

Blame Mrs. D., my fourth grade teacher, who made us parse sentences over and over (and over and over!) again. The wonders of an "old-fashioned" rural Ontario school system, y'know.

 

It caught my eye because the subject matter was close to home. Now, after I hire CJ for an evening's fun and frolic I'll be sure to be as equally careful when I write my (hopefully) glowing review.

 

And I promise not to wonder (even internally) what the real names of any of you are.

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: Escorts

 

>Hi Kalifornia if you live in a world where the "police" are

>there when you need them then congratulations...

 

Thanks. I can assure you that an officer is always here, for real.

 

>I know that you are probably clowning around when you ask

>your questions because we did have a very friendly man in

>Chicago who murdered and buried 33 young men in his

>basement..Mr John W Gacy. Mr Gacy was so unlike Jeffery

>Dalmer who also preyed on gay men... I am afraid that I do

>not agree with your position and will not close with a jaded

>comment as you have done...

Hey was the "clowning around and gacy thing" meant to be a pun? You know gacy would dress as a clown.

 

And what does this have to do with escorts and your original post? It has nothing to do with it as have any of your replies to my posts.

 

To: Rod, You're wrong.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Traveler North]

RE: Escorts

 

Kalifornia - Your calling CJ a liar is totally unfounded. Have been with him, and frankly have not met a more honest and upfront guy. Know from experience that he would never do anything to harm another guy. Doubt if you know him and have any foundation for your accusations. Think you need to respect people whose views may differ from your without casting accusations which are not based on fact.

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

My point was Mark ...that there are people out there that go out of their way to hurt others...you asked for stats knowing full well that sex workers suffer from prosecution and not protection from law enforcement agencies in this country and as a result the types of statistics that you are asking for are not compiled or are not accurate...I provided you with TWO mass murdering serial killers to help you understand that there are "bad people" out there.

 

by your own statement it seems that you have some law enforcement connection and if so you have no doubt encountered some of socieites "undesireable element"

 

I sent you a private e mail with regards to what I felt were your inappropriate statements about me personally. I know what an honourable person would; do but we shall see...

 

later<smile>

 

CJ

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

Thank you for your support...this has been a problem here for a while ...there are angry people who only know how to attack others on a personal basis with no foundation...see you soon and thank you once again for standing up for what you believe in...GOD BLESS AMERICA and those that have learned about honour trust and good deeds.

 

later<smile>

 

CJ

[Boston Guy]

RE: Escorts

 

Yes, and I apologize if I hijacked your thread.

 

None of what I have said here should have been taken as condoning someone taking steps to learn your name without your permission. What I have been describing is the reverse -- getting to know someone in an honest way that allows and encourages both parties to reveal more of themselves over time.

 

Going through some trash to find someone's name on a baggage tag is pretty low. If someone did that to me, I simply wouldn't see them again.

 

It's odd, actually, that you posted this because I have removed baggage tags from my suitcase any number of times when I had a new escort coming over to whatever hotel I was in. From time to time I meet someone who I definitely do not want to give my last name to but I am always a little sheepish when removing the tag. Now I'll feel a little better about it.

 

I guess it just goes to show how many little things we all have in common as we go through our daily lives.

 

Good luck to you.

 

BG

 

ps: I once had an escort who had been in my room for about 5 minutes for the first time pick up my cell phone and read my name on it. It turned out to be ok, since he was a decent guy and we got along ok. But now I turn my cell phone off as well before having an escort I don't know in my hotel room.

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Escorts

 

>I know that you are probably clowning around when you ask

>your questions because we did have a very friendly man in

>Chicago who murdered and buried 33 young men in his

>basement..Mr John W Gacy. Mr Gacy was so unlike Jeffery

>Dalmer who also preyed on gay men... I am afraid that I do

>not agree with your position and will not close with a jaded

>comment as you have done...

 

What does either of those cases have to do with escorts? Nothing, so far as I know.

 

Some of us are a little skeptical when it comes to claims of stalking because there are some escorts who make that accusation against anyone who gives them a bad review. If I believed every accusation of stalking made by an escort that I have read on this site I would conclude that about one out of every two clients is a stalker.

 

I see no objective reason why a client would need to know an escort's real name, but there are some personality quirks that are very strange but essentially harmless. The desire to gossip about whether some actor you've never met is gay would be one example. You didn't like the accusations that K made about you, but you have no problem implying that someone else wants to harm you when you have very little evidence that is really his intention. If you want the benefit of the doubt then maybe you should extend it to others as well.

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

I used Dahlmer and Gacy as examples of people who had preyed on gay men...Kalifornia asked for stats on escort assaults...that is not what my post was about...it was about a weird experience and how to protect yourself from disclosing information that you do not want to disclose...why is that so bad? and why do I have to defend myself for trying to be helpful and share an experience.

 

Statistics are great things and they can tell you a lot unless the "victims" are engaged in prostitution and fear prosecution rather than protection. I have found that people that refer to statistics are usually prepared to offer stats that support their view but usually will fail a real test of their credibility.

 

You agreed that his behaviour was odd. There were a number of things that were not right and that I had experienced once before. For the record and you can check it out I have never received a bad review and was simply sharing information.

[http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/cjtoronto.html] 4 years and all good reports.

 

As far as implying anything about anyone. Kalifornia called me a liar. He was emphatic and forecful about it. He has never met me ,talked to me , and he wasn;t there when buddy went through the garbage...his comments were baseless and uncalled for...and violate the rules of this message board. I have since noticed that this is the nature of his comments in general. Perhaps that is a "quirk" but when it attacks someone without basis, that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated..and definately it should not be supported.

 

I wouldn't do it to you so don't do it to me.

 

For the record I am choosing not to see a client who is offering me a ridiculous amount of money and benefits to spend time with him...what have I gained but the judgement by a few who seem not to practice what they preach. Save me the grief of applying the same warped perspective to this comment please..its a fact money does not by everything in this world..its called INTEGRITY.

 

As far as the benefit of a doubt...you agreed that going through the garbage was a little extreme.

 

Trying to get my home address so that he could send me something is nice, but I had already turned down offers of gifts and "shopping".

 

Twenty five phone calls in two days after seeing him once and telling him I was booked for the next two days and that I could not see him was odd.

 

Asking the number of stories location and layout of my residence after failing to get my address was odd.

 

His very agressive,possessive and disrespectful actions are odd.

 

Could you explain to me how much benefit this individual deserves? Admittedly I am a little paranoid but come on...to come down on me for sharing an odd experience..don't I deserve "the benefit of the doubt"

 

I gained nothing but the judgement of a few...I considered your comments and thought about what you said...my gut tells me this guy is bad news and I am sticking with it but I do apprciate your advice and perspective...maybe he is just a "quirky" guy but I am spooled and do not want to take the chance.

 

stay well and if I have offended you I apologize...feel free to respond here or to my e mail address[[email protected]]

 

later<smile>

 

Cj

[Guest LOVEHANDLE27]

RE: Escorts

 

Well, I am regular client of a very nice Brazilian escort in NYC, and I call him my FUCK BUDDY, and he calls me the same. Don't see any problems there......:+

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Another Country Heard From

 

Devon made many of my points so I will simply offer the following:

 

One of the twinks was stalked by someone who would drive by his apartment, telephoned his then roommate (believing he was a lover of the twinks) at his office (a medical professional's office), and who we are very certain slashed the tires on his roommates jeeps not once, not twice but three times (all three times it was the same blade).

 

We eventually got video tape stills (it helps to have friends in porn) of the gentlemen and his vehicle license plate and got a temporary restraining order).

 

The end of the story? This twink is still worried about this guy, has retired from the business, no longer lives in Los Angeles and only a very select few can contact him.

 

I will not make blanket statemens and this certainly was extreme but to give another example, I once had a client show up without an appointment at my front door (in a security complex) because the pool guy had left the building door open. While this guy was harmless, I personally do not appreciate even people I know well showing up without being expected. Had I had a client over at that time, it would have been an invasion of more than just my right to a personal life and privacy.

[ted]

RE: Escorts

 

Kalifornia and Newawlins-

It seems neither one of you has met CJ. I have, and although I do not know him well, I am impressed enough to say that if he thinks this guy is weird, trust me, he's weird. The additional details just provided are really over the top, I don't think anyone can disagree with that. CJ is one of the most together escorts I've met, he's also one of the best equipped, and a nice guy to boot.

[BuckyXTC]

CJ:

 

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that you would take steps to protect yourself against potential stalkers who come in the form of clients. Some have challenged your references to Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, saying they're irrelevant to the issue you've raised. As I remember the Dahmer case, I believe Dahmer targeted gay males......and I think it's a fair assumption that a good number of escorts fall into the "gay male" category. We don't know one way or the other if any of Dahmer's victims might have been escorts. But we do know that most if not all were gay, and that he managed to kill almost all of them.

 

All kinds of people get stalked for a host of reasons......because there are weirdos out there who develop some kind of attraction or fetish for them. Sometimes it may be harmless, but who really wants to find out? I may be in a minority here, but having met some really nice guys who escort, I do worry about their safety and always encourage them to be careful around safety issues.

 

If you have to err, err on the side of caution. And what you've told us about this client, especially in your followup post, leaves no doubt in my mind that his behavior would certainly send up lots of red flags for me. "GIving the benefit of the doubt" to a quirky client, as one poster suggested, is a pretty easy position to take when your own personal safety is not at stake.

 

All too frequently, I get the idea from some clients here, that their only concern is getting their rocks off with a hot escort, but they could care less about the escort as a human being. After all, in their minds, the escort only exists for the gratification of their needs, and beyond that, has no utility, value or worth whatsoever.

Fortunately, not everyone here shares that shallow perspective.

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Escorts

 

>I used Dahlmer and Gacy as examples of people who had preyed

>on gay men...Kalifornia asked for stats on escort

>assaults...

 

Yes he did. And your reply did not contain any such information. I think he was trying to make the point that this site has seen a lot of accusations by escorts of stalking but little real information about dangerous stalkers that would justify all the fear and concern they are expressing.

 

>that is not what my post was about...

 

You started this thread, so you chose the title. If it has nothing to do with stalkers then why is 'stalkers' in the title?

 

>it was about

>a weird experience and how to protect yourself from

>disclosing information that you do not want to

>disclose...why is that so bad? and why do I have to defend

>myself for trying to be helpful and share an experience.

 

 

You don't have to defend yourself. If you feel you shouldn't be expected to do that, then don't do it.

 

>

>Statistics are great things and they can tell you a lot

>unless the "victims" are engaged in prostitution and fear

>prosecution rather than protection. I have found that people

>that refer to statistics are usually prepared to offer stats

>that support their view but usually will fail a real test of

>their credibility.

 

A 'real test' such as what? I think he made a valid point. The term 'stalker' is becoming as over-used as 'racist' or 'communist' has been. Some people use it on anyone they don't happen to like.

 

>As far as implying anything about anyone. Kalifornia called

>me a liar. He was emphatic and forecful about it. He has

>never met me ,talked to me , and he wasn;t there when buddy

>went through the garbage...his comments were baseless and

>uncalled for...and violate the rules of this message board.

>I have since noticed that this is the nature of his comments

>in general. Perhaps that is a "quirk" but when it attacks

>someone without basis, that is unacceptable and should not

>be tolerated..and definately it should not be supported.

 

I used the word 'quirk' to refer to actions of the client you have been talking about, not to Kalifornia. Posting personal insults on this board is much too common to be called a 'quirk.' There are very few people here who have never done it and so very few who are in a position to complain about it.

 

>I wouldn't do it to you so don't do it to me.

 

Please feel free to behave in any way that seems best to you and I will do the same. I don't want to make up rules for you and I don't want you to do that for me.

 

 

>For the record I am choosing not to see a client who is

>offering me a ridiculous amount of money and benefits to

>spend time with him...what have I gained but the judgement

>by a few who seem not to practice what they preach. Save me

>the grief of applying the same warped perspective to this

>comment please..its a fact money does not by everything in

>this world..its called INTEGRITY.

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say in this paragraph. If a client's behavior rubs you the wrong way you have every right to refuse to see him. I didn't notice anyone here saying otherwise.

 

>Could you explain to me how much benefit this individual

>deserves? Admittedly I am a little paranoid but come on...to

>come down on me for sharing an odd experience..don't I

>deserve "the benefit of the doubt"

 

 

How much benefit does he deserve? Well, if he hasn't done anything to suggest he wants to hurt you then he deserves the benefit of not being compared to two of the most brutal serial killers of the twentieth century.

 

>I gained nothing but the judgement of a few...I considered

>your comments and thought about what you said...my gut tells

>me this guy is bad news and I am sticking with it but I do

>apprciate your advice and perspective...maybe he is just a

>"quirky" guy but I am spooled and do not want to take the

>chance.

 

I haven't given you any advice. I can't advise you about whether you should see a client I have never even met. I only say you have implied this client is a dangerous person without any real evidence that he wants to harm you or anyone. Being a snoop is an unpleasant trait, but it doesn't make him dangerous. You didn't like it when K made some accusations against you that you feel are not backed up by the evidence. You have complained about that over and over. If you don't like it when others do it to you then maybe you shouldn't do it to others.

[Guest CJ]

RE: Escorts

 

You just don't get it do you?..."stalkers" start out with possessive ownership behaviour and it escalates from their..if you identify behaviour that is concerning then bail...I did.

 

the thread is about not disclosing your personal information by accident, and respect, and protecting yourself as well as behaviour that indicates a problem.

 

I don't know about the history of this board and information about "stalkers" I do know that it happens and perhaps people over exaggerate or use the term improperly..don't know I wasn't their,or part of their experience.

 

I do know that some people are aggressive and have "quirks" as you said...sometimes these quirks add up to give you "red flags"...

and that was the case here..enough said... I hope that he just burns himself out. Unfortunately he now knows information about me that he was told he could not have.

 

He obtained the information because I did not know my name was on the tag and I did not expect a route through the garbage pail. If this is not a concern for you then great....no need to comment...it might help someone not as experienced ...like me.

 

thanks again for your comments...it is great that people submit here I would just like to see them supported if their issues are valid.

 

later<smile>

 

CJ