Declared income

[Guest wolfman]

I'm sorry if my question was out of line. I was just curious as I also am self employed.

 

Wolfman

[Guest wolfman]

I swear that I do not work for the IRS. I am curious about how and if escorts declare their income. Do you pay federal, state and local income taxes? What do you put down as your occupation? How about credit card applications and loans? What happens when a credit check is run on you?

 

Wolfman

[Guest bighugbearphx]

I'm not an escort, but am a tax professional who has prepared returns for about 6-8 escorts over the years. There are several factors to consider:

 

1. If you have done any other work (such as did stripping for a bar event, print work, etc) for which a Form 1099MISC was issued, obviously you must declare AT LEAST that amount of income, since the IRS is aware of it.

And, on that subject, realize that any income collected by check, whether you deposited it in your account OR simply cashed the check against your balance, can be traced back to you, if you are ever audited (in which case the IRS can get your bank records). Only cash payments, or checks you did not cash via your own bank, are untraceable.

 

2. As you pointed out, you can't expect to be granted credit unless you can show a tax return that demonstrates you make enough to pay back the loan or credit card. Many self-employed folks find this out the hard way, when they are turned down for credit.

 

3. If you do file a return, realize that the IRS is getting more sophisticated in looking beyond the numbers to the "economic reality" of what they are seeing. If you show deductions (like mortgage interest, business travel, etc.) that are obviously high with respect to the gross income you declared, you are inviting it to be questioned. When the return is done, take a step back and look at it with impartial eyes and ask "Would *I* believe this?" If you wouldn't, neither will the IRS.

 

My escort clients usually use something like "Entertainer" or "Actor" as the nature of their business. And understand that, if you will show enough income to owe a tax over $1,000, you can't just wait till April 15 of the following year to pay it, but need to make estimated tax payments on Form 1040ES during the year (But don't do this unless you are reasonably sure you will file and have tax due. Otherwise, you'll have to file to get it back, and it raises questions like "Why did he pay in tax when he showing he had so little in income?")

 

And I suggest using a tax pro who has some experience in this area, and doesn't shy away from the nature of the income. There are legitimate deductions you can claim against escort income for travel, costumes, supplies, dues, internet access, telephone / cell phone, use of a home computer, exclusive use of part of your home as an office, etc. This can allow you to be somewhat "honest" about what you gross, since the taxable net will be a lot less.

 

If you want to save some money tax deferred, one possibility is an IRA (which is limited to $3,000, but may not be tax deductible if you had a job where you had a 401K or pension converage), but - as a business - you can also/instead open a SEP (Simplified Employee Pension) which lets you sock away up to 20% of your net. (Note: Both limits mentioned are the new higher limits for 2002 and later years.)

[+ Lucky]

Why would any escort actually answer this question?

[Huey]

>Why would any escort actually answer this question?

 

Addendum: Why would any escort actually answer this question honestly?

 

-----------

WAR IS OVER

if you want it

GIVE PEACE A CHANCE

[N.N.]

>Why would any escort actually answer this question?

 

An escort who paid his share of taxes might want

to explain how it can be practical to do so.

[Guest jwraustin]

I don't have a problem answering this question at all. I will try to make this simple without getting all "heady" about it. I can't speak for all escorts here, but I think this is another one of those mis-conceptions that people have about escorts - that they dodge taxes on their income.

 

I have a very good relationship with my CPA, and he's been handling my personal finances for more than ten years. When I first got started in this business, it was just a small income on the side, but over the years has grown and I have had use professional help to manage it. I have diversified into other business interests in addition to my escorting (real estate, stock investments, etc) and all of the monies goes into one giant pot, which is sorted out by his firm. Several years ago,I went from a simple DBA, to a sub-chapter S, which is way beyond anything that I can manage and file all the forms on my own. I am lucky to have had a few clients and friends over the years who were instrumental in helping me get all this organized, and I still go to them for financial advice now.

 

Keeping accurate and detailed records is the best way that works for me. I know just where the cash is comming from, and where it is going. I get a paycheck like most other folks, twice a month. (I also have paid health insurance, personal liability insurance, retirement plan, disability insurance, etc.) Its all very well organized. I do actually have a business plan.

 

That way, when I want to buy a new car, or apply for a loan, or get a new credit card, I don't have problems with my banker. Also, I don't have to be constantly looking over my shoulder in fear of the IRS.

 

Escorting is a business - bottom line. Escorts and clients often forget this simple fact.

 

The true art for me has been running it as a business, and at the same time, not acting like its all "just business". And that for me has been the biggest challenge of them all.

 

As Mike my CPA says "You can either manage your money, or it will manage you - and when it manages you, its no fun at all."

 

Jon Dean

http://www.manfuck.net

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

>I am curious about

>how and if escorts declare their income.

 

PUH-LEEZ! These guys can't even declare their AGE honestly!

 

Bureaucratically yours,

 

FFF

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>I am curious about how and if escorts declare their income.

 

We've had a previous discussion on this topic. Many escorts will leap to defend themselves by declaring that they do indeed declare their income.

 

And they probably do. It would be just plain dumb not to as eventually "they" would come a'nockin at your door.

 

But..... and here's the rub - I bet that very few, if any, declare their whole income or anywhere close to it. In a business that is largly done by cash transactions and where seldom if ever a receipt is required?...... give me a break.

 

The exception might be those working through an agency, as a paper trail would exist. But for the indipendants - forget it. Just so long as you show enough income to avoid bells going of at the IRS, you could probably get away with it forever.

 

The ones who get caught would be those stupid enough to declare 35K a year while driving around town in a new Boxster and living in an apartment where the rent is more than their declared income.

 

I also wonder what kind of record keeping would an escort maintain for the declared portion, and would he deduct business expenses such as advertising and internet fees, not to mention condoms, lube etc.

 

They do have one problem - what to do with the undeclared portion if they want to save it. Putting it in a bank is a no no, as the interest would be reported by the bank and you would have to declare that, which could lead to having to explain how you accumulated the savings. Using more than one bank would only compound the problem.

I guess you could rent a saftey deposit box and stash it there. But when you eventually want to use it how can you do so without drawing attention to it and yourself?

 

Any ideas? I'd love to hear them just out of curiosity. I might pick up a tip I could apply to my undeclared income - just joking :-)

 

Thunderbuns

[taylorky]

>Any ideas? I'd love to hear them just out of curiosity. I

>might pick up a tip I could apply to my undeclared income -

>just joking :-)

>

>Thunderbuns

......................................................................whoa had an increase in pencil sales.........hmmmmm.hey on the positive side you can take a deduction on the cup. ummmmm just trying to help.......

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Honesty Is The Best Policy

 

>>I am curious about

>>how and if escorts declare their income.

>

>PUH-LEEZ! These guys can't even declare their AGE honestly!

>

>Bureaucratically yours,

>

>FFF

 

Two comments. Jon and the accounting client both answered the question extremely well and completely. As someone who knows a fair number of escorts who have done adult films, adult films performers who do not escort, and escorts who have not done (or retired from adult films) and have investments and other business, I can state categorically than quite a number of us do pay our taxes, do report income, for the expressed reasons these gentlemen state.

 

Finally, the honesty issue was addressed and dealt with in the entire thread many months ago initiated by Reg about escorts lying about our age, stats, hiv status, names, etc., so I will not (and suggest we do not rehash that again.)

 

However, as F cubed was kind enough to bring up the specific age issue, let me point out that the concern with AGE arises largely from the client base and is reflective of the larger age bias which is admitedly a culturally conditioned response among gay men. But when a 36 year old gay male escort (and any client hiring me is welcome to see my birth certificate) is called OLD, TIRED and a TRAVESTY as a representative of this site or of escorts, what can you guys seriously expect an escort to do as a direct consequence of the market conditions created by the clients?

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Honesty Is The Best Policy

 

>Finally, the honesty issue was addressed and dealt with in

>the entire thread many months ago initiated by Reg about

>escorts lying about our age, stats, hiv status, names, etc.,

>so I will not (and suggest we do not rehash that again.)

 

Do you mean the 'Escorts are you embarrassed?' thread? I think that was tmbg, near the end of his era of posting with us.

[N.N.]

RE: Honesty Is The Best Policy

 

>However, as F cubed was kind enough to bring up the specific

>age issue, let me point out that the concern with AGE

>arises largely from the client base and is reflective of the

>larger age bias which is admitedly a culturally conditioned

>response among gay men.

 

Clients have preferences about who they want to hire.

This is reasonable, whether they are culturally conditioned

or not. (In any case, I am not convinced that age

preferences are 100% culturally conditioned.)

 

>But when a 36 year old gay male

>escort (and any client hiring me is welcome to see my birth

>certificate) is called OLD, TIRED and a TRAVESTY as a

>representative of this site or of escorts, what can you guys

>seriously expect an escort to do as a direct consequence of

>the market conditions created by the clients?

 

I expect people charging $200 or so an hour to conduct

themselves as professionals. Market conditions (and mean

spirited remarks by others) are not excuses for dishonesty.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Market Forces

 

>> let me point out that the concern with AGE

>>arises largely from the client base and is reflective of the

>>larger age bias which is admitedly a culturally conditioned

>>response among gay men.

>

>Clients have preferences about who they want to hire.

>This is reasonable, whether they are culturally conditioned

>or not. (In any case, I am not convinced that age

>preferences are 100% culturally conditioned.)

 

There are not many men on the cover of Genre, Instinct, Out, The Advocate, or more to the point for this context, in publications such as Men or Honcho, et al., who do not fall well within a certain very carefully defined demographic of age, height, weight, even hair length, to name just a few. The same can be confidently stated of any adult entertainment material. The notable exceptions are specialty publications, such as Black Inches or Bulk Male, which have an exceedingly limited market (to wit, Honcho has a dozen competitors, how many other publications similar to Black Inches can you name?).

 

I think this culturally conditioned response comes from society at large and has just been exaggerated and given greater emphasis by gay men. At the population ages, with the bulk of the boomers now encompassing the largest market, at any sexual demographic, and with the over all graying of this country at large, there have been changes in the equivocation of youth with beauty, but by and large, it remains. This is not a country that prizes its elders either for their charm, their looks, their sexual stamina or ability, or that accords the elderly even simple dignity and respect.

 

>>But when a 36 year old gay male

>>escort (and any client hiring me is welcome to see my birth

>>certificate) is called OLD, TIRED and a TRAVESTY as a

>>representative of this site or of escorts, what can you guys

>>seriously expect an escort to do as a direct consequence of

>>the market conditions created by the clients?

>

>I expect people charging $200 or so an hour to conduct

>themselves as professionals. Market conditions (and mean

>spirited remarks by others) are not excuses for dishonesty.

 

Finally, as Devon's recollection was better than mine in this case, I do believe I owe Reg and his multitude of other personas, an apology. He did not initiate the thread, he simply participated in it.

 

I addressed on that thread the issue of the professionalism and honesty of myself and fellow escorts here on this site and generally, and I do not intend to simply cover old ground again. However, the same market forces that create adult entertainment are not the ones that apply in say, medicine or plumbing. There is a quantifiable standard for whether or not you need open heart surgery and what the standard of care would be by any surgeon. In the instance of an escort, or a companion or a hustler, there are different standard at play, a wholly personal standard that includes the client's fantasy, his desires, his needs and his wants. How successfully these are met determines the "standard of care" in this instance and it is for this success that the fee is merited, at whatever rate it may be. Part of the appeal, part of meeting the desires and needs of the client, may be both a culturally conditioned need to find a young man of a certain age who can pass in appearance for far younger, perhaps even below the legal age of consent. There is a vast difference in how well one satisfies one individual's particular fantasy to a plumber taking ten minutes to replace a piece of rubber tubing in your dishwasher for a simple repair job and charging for a full hour (with a thirty minute minimum) and the cost of a copper pipe.

 

As has been shown on this site time and time again, any one of us who charges for our time who does not provide the services requested, who does not satisfy the reasonable needs of the client, who does not accomplish the fulfillment of the fantasy, does not AND should not be considered either professional, honest or even competent. Dishonest commerce, as the investigations into MCI, Enron, Arthur Andersen, et al. prove, exists at every level of business, in the pursuit of pure profit as opposed to customer satisfaction. Yes, these corporate entities were both dishonest and unprofessional, not to mention criminal. However, this is sexual intimacy and satisfaction we are discussing, not public utilities.

 

everyone wantsthe truth, but no one wants to pay for it.

[N.N.]

RE: Market Forces

 

> ... In the

>instance of an escort, or a companion or a hustler, there

>are different standard at play, a wholly personal

>standard that includes the client's fantasy, his

>desires, his needs and his wants. How successfully these

>are met determines the "standard of care" in this instance

>and it is for this success that the fee is merited,

>at whatever rate it may be.

 

If many clients don't mind being lied to, that's

their business. I don't like it. Only the client

can say whether or not he is satisfied.

 

I've asked escorts on occasion whether their advertised

age is their real age. In one case the escort insisted

(in an indignant tone) that it was his real age.

I found out later it was a lie.

 

>As has been shown on this site time and time again, any one

>of us who charges for our time who does not provide

>the services requested, who does not satisfy the

>reasonable needs of the client, who does not

>accomplish the fulfillment of the fantasy, does not AND

>should not be considered either professional, honest or

>even competent.

 

You mentioned "reasonable needs" of the client.

I find it annoying to be lied to; is that unreasonable?

 

>Dishonest commerce, as the investigations

>into MCI, Enron, Arthur Andersen, et al. prove, exists at

>every level of business, in the pursuit of pure profit as

>opposed to customer satisfaction. Yes, these corporate

>entities were both dishonest and unprofessional, not to

>mention criminal. However, this is sexual intimacy and

>satisfaction we are discussing, not public utilities.

 

I'm not trying to speak for other clients. I'm just

expressing my own preferences. I appreciate honesty;

it's part of what gets my repeat business.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Reasonable Needs

 

Your comments do not really oppose nor contradict anything I have said. Some escorts do not always speak the truth just as some clients do not as well. This is life itself. It is genuinely unfortunate you had the experience you had, but again it is just YOUR own experience.

 

>I'm not trying to speak for other clients. I'm just

>expressing my own preferences. I appreciate honesty;

>it's part of what gets my repeat business.

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: Honesty Is The Best Policy

 

>>>I am curious about

>>>how and if escorts declare their income.

>>

>>PUH-LEEZ! These guys can't even declare their AGE honestly!

>>

>>Bureaucratically yours,

>>

>>FFF

>

>

>However, as F cubed was kind enough to bring up the specific

>age issue, let me point out that the concern with AGE

>arises largely from the client base and is reflective of the

>larger age bias which is admitedly a culturally conditioned

>response among gay men. But when a 36 year old gay male

>escort (and any client hiring me is welcome to see my birth

>certificate) is called OLD, TIRED and a TRAVESTY as a

>representative of this site or of escorts, what can you guys

>seriously expect an escort to do as a direct consequence of

>the market conditions created by the clients?

 

Well, when you are 36 and pretend you are 25 the client tends to see the truth pretty quickly. There is a popular Las Vegas escort running around at 21 yet his actual age is now 26. Five years difference in your 20's is not so bad yet still stupid to lie about. If I want to hire a twink just because you give me a twink age doesn't make you one. It goes beyond age. And since I am paying the bill, I will hire who I like, eat the food I want, rent thjemovies I want to see. I don't give a fuck about YOUR culture correctness.

 

36 is OLD, no doubt about it. I am over 36 and I am old... now can we move on to the next topic. This was a thread about escort and their taxes. I think FFF has a good point.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[taylorky]

RE: Honesty Is The Best Policy

 

>36 is OLD, no doubt about it. I am over 36 and I am old...

>now can we move on to the next topic. This was a thread

>about escort and their taxes. I think FFF has a good point.

>

>Mark -Kalifornia

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++whoa dude ya better be careful,last time i mentioned ANYTHING about age the hyprocrites came out of the woodwork one of the clowns even suggested i should have my neck broken ROFLMAO.ya know what's so sad about that.the people who said those things to me, are the same people that want the str8 world to show them tolerance,and respect. how very very sad,tolerance and respect for people that don't even understand the meaning...........oh well bye byeeeeeeeeeeeeee