When is a Promise -- Not a Promise

[Guest IGetAround]

Last year I hired an escort for an overnight. I had a great time and I believe he did as well. As I was taking him back to the train station, he told me that although he was raising his rates, he PROMISED me that he would keep me at the rate that I paid for that evening. I believed him. Recently I emailed him asking for another appointment.. and he tells me that he has moved and that he will not honor my request as he remembers the rate promise. Isn't that unfair?

My question is -- when is a promise not a promise? Sure I understand that rates change, but should he not honor his owm promise at least once more?

Have any escorts out there ever had to break a pormise made to a client? Do you just ignore your word?

[SmallTownJohn]

Hello,

 

I pride myself in my word so if I had told you that as my client, I would stick to it.(Now, if clients would stick to the same standard...my job would be SO much easier!) The only time I would increase a price on a previous client is after a single one hour call then he makes tons of appointments & cancels every time. In those rare cases, it's so he'll get drunk while online & pester the shit out of someone else. LOL Some escorts are honest businessmen & some are just out for weekend "fix" money...love those three second attention spans.

 

 

 

John

http://www.SmallTownJohn1.com

[guyinsf]

I think we need more details to know. 1. When in 2001 did you hire him? 2. For such a promise to be made, there must have been some discussion about you hiring him again. Have you kept your end of that deal by hiring him again as soon as you indicated you would? 3. How far away did he move, and is he now living somewhere where his cost of living is significantly higher? 4. Are you asking for an incall or an outcall?

 

My two cents:

 

You say you hired him last year. It is now April of this year. If you hired him in January 2001 and now, 16 months later, are contacting him again for only the second time, I could see that he would not want to keep his promise. If you hired him near the end of 2001 and then sought him out fewer than three months later, it seems strange that he would not want to honor his promise

 

You say the escort moved. Is he doing an outcall for you? Is he much farther away from you now than before? If so, I think it's understandable that he would want to be paid more. In addition to the extra travel time there is the cost of getting to you (assuming he's still within driving distance and you're not paying for airfare). I would say, however, that if you are traveling to him it would be reasonable for him to honor his promise, at least once. Perhaps he is living in a more expensive location so he feels he needs to charge more. That seems reasonable and I wouldn't expect him to charge you the same rate forever, but it would be wise for him to honor his promise to you under these circumstances, to show his integrity and professionalism.

[Bilbo]

I try to never charge anyone more than the first time they saw me, unless that was a discount for some reason. If later we arrange a discount, then we always specify just how reapplicable it is. I have one client who got me to give him half price on the promise that he would see me once or twice a week. He now sees me only twice or so a month, but still expects that discount, even though my fees have gone up two or three times since we set it. In fact, after I lose the last of this weight down under 200 and raise my fee to $125, he'll only be paying me a third of my price. It used to upset me, but now it's just like he's a friendly fuckbuddy who just happens to pay me. The upsets weren't upsetting him, only me, and weren't worth it.

 

I have so many different people paying me different fees that I have by and large just told them to keep track of them themselves and I trust them to do so. If they forget and ask me, we're in deep doodoo.

 

So, you can see why I am wondering - after my next fee increase, should I increase all my grandfathered discounts to the same number?

 

I know that that looks like a question for the Escorts Only section, but I really would like client input, even though this is the Ask An Escort section. oops - so sue me.

[guyinsf]

There are only a couple of escorts I hire regularly (and only one frequently), and both of them have maintained the same rate for nearly two years now. I know I am paying both of them "under market" rates. With one, a change of rate has never been discussed. With the other, we've talked about it a couple of times and he clearly wants to keep the rate the same. If either wanted to raise his rate, however, I would understand. A higher rate might have an impact on my ability to hire them as frequently, but that is like any other product or service for which one pays money. I have X amount of dollars, and I have to live within my means.

[Guest roninx]

Any promise is only as good as the person who makes it. It the person if flaky then the promise is no good (in his eyes, anyway since he won't remember it).

 

Unfortunately, you can't force him to keep it. You can try discussing it with him but if he insists that he never made the promise, then you might be better off just finding someone else.

 

There are so many GREAT escorts out there!:9

 

Use the site and find someone better.

[Guest IGetAround]

Good Questions...

 

I hired him in June, 2001. He told me then that he would honor those rates anytime. I told him that I could not afford to hire him much, but I did enjoy his company and believe he did mine.

 

His move is to a more expensive city, but not much further from my home than where he lived originally. The first time, he took public transportation and I picked him up and drove him the hour to my home.

There is excellent bus service from his current city to mine and I have offered to pay for it. He has also become more well-known and I believe does not need those who were there in the past.

 

My thought is that when a promise is made -- it is not always made forever, but that it should be honored for some subsequent period of time. And then if rates do change, the escort ought to notify the client and suggest that the guarantee will only be good for the next X amount of visits. That way, he honors his word and gives notice of the coming changes.

[Will]

A date with an escort is a business deal, no matter how much fun it is for both parties. And in business, a "promise" is not a promise unless it's in writing, is signed by both parties, and witnessed by a third. At the time the escort said he'd keep his rates the same for you, he probably didn't know that he was moving to a more expensive city. Even if he did, I don't think he's morally obligated to maintain the rate he quoted, far in advance of your attempt to meet him again. Similarly, you are not morally obligated to hire him at the higher rate. If he were a friend doing you a favor, that would be one thing. But he's not your friend, and the money you are paying him is not a gift. It seems to me that you're being a little unreasonable and even a little unfair to the escort.

[Guest jeffOH]

>Isn't that unfair?

 

Yes, it is unfair.

 

>My question is -- when is a promise not a promise?

 

A promise is not a promise when the person who made it doesn't honor his word. I wouldn't have pursued it any further. Move on to someone else.

 

>Sure, I understand that rates change, but should he not honor his

>own promise at least once more?

 

You can't force him to do it. Let it go. He sounds kind of flaky.

 

>Have any escorts out there ever had to break a pormise

>made to a client? Do you just ignore your word?

 

The escort was stupid to make such a promise in the first place not knowing how much time would elapse before you called him again. I can't remember ever having to "break a promise made to a client". I try not to make any promises unless I am comfortable doing so. I like to think that I am a man of my word. That can be very important not just in escorting, but in the world in general.

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[Guest regulation]

>A date with an escort is a business deal, no matter how much

>fun it is for both parties. And in business, a "promise" is

>not a promise unless it's in writing, is signed by both

>parties, and witnessed by a third.

 

 

You should leave the discussion of legalities to those who understand such things. In legal terms, what the escort did was make the client an offer: "If you hire me again, I will give you the same rate as I did on this occasion." An offer does not create a binding contract unless and until it is accepted in accordance with its terms -- in this case, unless and until the client hires him again. Until the offer is accepted, the party who made it is free to withdraw or modify it at any time by notifying the party to whom it was made. The refusal to honor an offer when it is accepted, and when it was not modified or withdrawn prior to acceptance, has been the subject of numerous lawsuits.

 

Although contracts of certain types must be in writing in order to be enforceable, oral contracts of most types are perfectly valid in law. Generally, neither oral nor written contracts require a witness other than the parties.

 

 

>At the time the escort

>said he'd keep his rates the same for you, he probably

>didn't know that he was moving to a more expensive city.

>Even if he did, I don't think he's morally obligated to

>maintain the rate he quoted, far in advance of your attempt

>to meet him again.

 

As I explained, both law and custom require that an offer be honored by the one who made it unless he has notified the other party of his intention to withdraw or change it. That applies to businessmen who value their reputations, of course, not to some flaky kid who is trying to make a few extra bucks by escorting.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Contract Law

 

A very excellent explanation of some of the distinctions between an oral promise and a written agreement and what constitutes a contract. However, let me add a few points. In order to enforce this oral "promise" as a binding agreement, a triar of facts - either the judge or jury - would need to hear both sides of the story, in this instance we have only heard from the client, who as has been pointed out, did not provide sufficient information in the original post. Then it becomes a question of both credibility as well as the actual details and how they are presented.

 

Finally, I think you most excellent explanation was lessened and an escort (and generally all escorts) received an unnecessary slight with your final comment.

 

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one who returns your page.

 

UPDATED PICTURES AT - http://photos.yahoo.com/franco4hire

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Rates

 

I escorted in San Francisco in the mid-90s and stopped for a relationship and then moved out of the area and continued to do the same "day" job I had in SF. I then moved to Atlanta and entered into a second relationship. On my return to California slightly less than a year ago, I was immediately approached about escorting. I set certain rates once I agreed to do so, in order to introduce myself to the market and find out what five years would mean in terms of interest and marketability. Within two months, I raised my rates, only by $50 and they are still not in line with what a number of escorts here charge in this market, which I presume makes me a below-market priced escort. As someone else has pointed in this thread, we are all essentially in business for ourselves and I cannot and will not pretend to speak for anyone other than myself. In speaking with someone last night from San Diego, I agreed to see him for two hours at the rate with which we originally spoke, even though I did not recall the conversation nor him - and my clients often remark and are impressed with my excellent memory of their names, preferences, addresses, telephone numbers, etc. He still declined to see me as he felt my fee was still too high (I had agreed to see him for $300 for two hours, including waiving my premium for travel of more than 30 minutes each way outside my home base). I then found him another escort closer to him who needed the money, did not have to travel as far and was also since rent was due, willing to undercut his price. In every respect, I believe I treated this gentlemen professionally and in keeping with what I believe are my morals.

 

In short, if a promise was made I would have honored it but I would not have made an open-ended promise. Given the additional information the client has presented, I would have agreed to see this gentlement one more time, at the old rate, but I would have driven there or taken a rail car, not a bus and expected reimbursement, as offered for my out of pocket travel expenses. With the guy from San Diego above, I made it clear the reduction was a one-time offer and since he declined it, if he ever contacted me again, it would have to be for my then posted rates.

 

As for Daddy Blade, again I think you are making it too complicated it for yourself. I would explain to your clients and discuss it with each of them on a case by case basis and attempt to get everyone you have grandfathered in to pay a similar rate, with a slight slide if necessary, of 10 to 20% but those would need to recognize that there would be a cost of living increase of say 2 - 4% until all the grandfathered clients were at the same rate within a reasonable period of time. Say twelve to eighteen months. New clients should understand that rates may rise or not, but eventually they would need to all be equalized to the prevailing rate. For one thing, this creates fairness to both the old client AND the new ones.

 

Love is no substitute for sex.

 

http://photos.yahoo.com/franco4hire

[guyinsf]

RE: Rates

 

If you choose to charge everyone the same rate, that is up to you. There are others professionals who use a "sliding scale," however, so there is nothing wrong with having some clients paying X, others Y, and others Z. Two things that can be considered into setting someone's fee is the client's ability to pay and the service provider's desire to work with him.

 

I would also argue that not all customer's requests are alike. I can understand an escort charging a repeat client less when that client's demands are relatively low, thus making the escort's work easier (for example, someone who wants to have dinner, an hour of sex, and then fall asleep) versus someone who expects the escort to stay up all night having sex (assuming this isn't a person the escort would have otherwise chosen to have sex with) or have sex in a way that the escort doesn't enjoy.

[Guest regulation]

RE: Contract Law

 

>A very excellent explanation of some of the distinctions

>between an oral promise and a written agreement and what

>constitutes a contract.

 

Thanks a bunch. As I just got through explaining, however, the correct term in this case is "offer," not "promise."

 

 

>However, let me add a few points.

>In order to enforce this oral "promise" as a binding

>agreement, a triar of facts - either the judge or jury -

>would need to hear both sides of the story,

 

No, that is not true. In civil litigation in this country the plaintiff -- the party who brings the case before the court -- has the burden of presenting a certain quantum of evidence sufficient to support his case. The defendant has the opportunity to present evidence in support of his position as well, but if he chooses not to do so the "trier of fact" is free to render a verdict solely on the basis of the evidence presented by the plaintiff.

 

 

>in this instance

>we have only heard from the client, who as has been pointed

>out, did not provide sufficient information in the original

>post.

 

"Sufficient" by whose standards? The evidence provided by the plaintiff is that the defendant made an offer, that the plaintiff accepted the offer in accordance with its terms, and that the defendant refused to honor it. That is quite sufficient to make a prima facie case for the plaintiff. If the defendant chooses not to present evidence of his own, as seems to be the case here, the trier of fact must make its decision on the basis of the evidence that is in the record.

 

>Finally, I think you most excellent explanation was lessened

>and an escort (and generally all escorts) received an

>unnecessary slight with your final comment.

 

My explanation was presented solely to correct misinformation posted by Will, who has a record of criticizing any poster who says anything negative about an escort whether he actually knows anything about the situation or not. And your remark about "lessened" makes no sense at all. If my statements about the law of contracts are true, the fact that I showed disrespect for the escort discussed here (which I think is well deserved, by the way) does not make those statements less true. The one has nothing to do with the other.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

The exception that proves the rule

 

I will generally offer someone who is interested in my services my in call rate for an out call if they are uncertain. I will offer to speak with them over the telephone, often on my long distance -- I do not use a cell phone with "free" anytime minutes. I have also offered to meet prospective clients on my time in my neighborhood for a brief in-person conversation. However, I have made it clear that these were introductory offers and would not be the case for repeat hires.

 

I do not charge the same hourly rate if someone wants to take me out to dinner and a play and then spend some time between the sheets with me at the end of the evening as if we had spent the entire five hours having sex. I also give a discount for someone who hires me for more than two hours. There are, as you state, all sorts of variables which the individual escort can and should consider. However my point is that I do not differentiate. I make the same discount for a multiple hour engagement to EVERY client, new or existing. Someone who hired me for five hours of pure sex paid more than someone who hired me five hours including dinner and sex.

 

As another example, when gentlemen ask me for a sensual massage, I tell them I can provide one and I believe personally a very good quality one, but at my standard rates and more often than not I refer them to an escort who also provides sensual massage services -- by advertising and profile on AOL that service only -- and who discounts his services in this manner or to someone who is not a full service escort/companion but merely does massage and or "massage plus." I also refer prospects to other escorts if the gentlemen feels he cannot or does not wish to afford me at my rates. I also tell the prospect whether I can personally refer the escort or am only doing so based on information. When I was in Palm Springs, I referred massage service requests to Robert Black as I knew he had good reviews on this site but I made it clear I had not even ever met the man personally -- though we did have a mutual client who also gave Mr. Black good marks.

 

My rates apply across the board and this is the most equitable solution I believe I can provide to all concerned.

[DaninWA]

RE: Contract Law

 

My understanding is that a contract to commit an illegal act is not valid and no court would enforce it. Regulation, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Dan

[Bilbo]

RE: The exception that proves the rule

 

I haven't been charging the same rate for different services, but probably will do so now that my massage is just as illegal as my escorting. I do thank the two of you for your advice. I think that I will still continue to charge less for regularly repeating clients, but I will try to slowly bring it up to a more reasonable percentage of what is actually my current rate.

 

If it looks like I am going to lose clients over it, I think that I will just be stern with the leather clients. I am the best, ususally the only, Leather Master for hire in Houston. Noone even took over those reigns the two years I was officially retired. One thing about playing a small niche, you don't have much direct competition. I know that this sounds a little arrogant, but aren't Leather Masters supposed to sound a little arrogant? Goes with the job, mate.

[Guest regulation]

RE: Contract Law

 

>My understanding is that a contract to commit an illegal act

>is not valid and no court would enforce it. Regulation,

>please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You are not wrong. It's a little silly to discuss prostitution in the same terms one would use to discuss a legitimate business transaction, but if one is going to do so one might as well use the correct terms and the correct rules rather than simply making things up as Will did.