Rome on HBO

[Rod Hagen]

>>Then Duro steps in and WOW! But, his attempt to kill Attia

>>will fail next week, of course, and I'm afraid the lunkheads

>>at HBO/BBC will allow his character to be killed as a result.

 

 

Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn

[+ purplekow]

>>>Then Duro steps in and WOW! But, his attempt to kill

>Attia

>>>will fail next week, of course, and I'm afraid the

>lunkheads

>>>at HBO/BBC will allow his character to be killed as a

>result.

>

>

>Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn

>

>

I was also sad to see Duro go. He was quite the hot piece of Roman sausage. As they are disposing of the body, I am thinking another great piece of meat down the drain.

[BgMstr4u]

I agree. I would love to see HBO chronicle the 35 years of political harmony and economic prosperity during which Augustus built Rome into a world city and made possible its artistic and literary flowering. But that would mean putting architecture and poetry into the center of the story. Somehow the re-building of the Forum or the deification of Julius Caesar or the re-establishment of traditional religion or the banishment of Ovid to the farther reaches for alluding to a possible illicit liaison in the "Amores" aren't quite the crowd pleasers that tyrannicide and civil war are. Well, the festival of the Lupercal, celebrating the she-wolf that raised Romulus and Remus, featured the flower of artistocratic youth running around the Palatine naked, so that could be fun. But Augustus was a bit of a prude in his public policies (though not privately: Suetonius makes clear that he was a serial adulterer and over-fond of youngsters; the juicy bits are in chapters 69-71), and passed new laws "encouraging" marriage, procreation and home life in the best family-values vein. Still, it would be lovely to watch Augustus seduce Rome's greatest poet, Virgil, from covert political opposition to become the highest-tone propagandist in history. We could see the excesses of Maecenas, the richest man in Rome, but unfortunately, Augustus saw to it that he spent most of his money on civic projects of unquestionable utility, such as new roads and water systems. But perhaps all that would be a bit subtle.

 

So, yes, it would have to be the succession story. That pesky high death rate in the ancient world did more than Livia ever could, and what a thrilling character Tiberius would be! Offered the succession to become the most powerful man in the world, he did not want it, and ultimately showed Rome that he was right and they were wrong in insisting on him. That's the stuff of great drama!

 

I am sorry, but not terribly surprised, that the plebs are not watching in great numbers. Still, what a gift this well-researched and authentically beautful production is! Octavian Caesar's best friend, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, is the sexiest thing in the production at the moment. I am hoping for a lot more camera time for Allen Leech, who plays him. Can we hope for a nude scene?

 

For the readers among us, I would recommend Karl Galinsky's "The Cambridge Companion to the Age of Augustus", which covers most of the aspects of his rise to power and the policies of his remarkable rule from a current historical perspective.

[RockHard]

"and what a thrilling character Tiberius would be"

 

His love of porn would have helped HBO's ratings.

 

"I am sorry, but not terribly surprised, that the plebs are not watching in great numbers."

 

They do have trouble wrapping their brains around these names. But, honestly, who can keep track of these bloodlines?

 

"Still, what a gift this well-researched and authentically beautful production is!"

 

I agree, for the most part. Some of the dialogue is too modern slang for my tastes and, even with British accents, it's laughable. I'd prefer the ancient tongue with subtitles. I can never get enough authenticity.

 

"But I have to say that his best friend, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, is the sexiest thing in the production at the moment. Can we hope for a nude scene?"

 

Sorry, but I'm not into round-faced chubby-cherubs, and the thought of him naked conjures nothing similar to the thought of Antony sitting on my face. I can't help but wonder what his sweaty, war-torn pits smell like.

 

Suetonius' The Twelve Ceasars is by far the best read. It's just too dishy to put down.

[BgMstr4u]

Thanks for your good comments, Rockhard. I'll return the favor.

 

"His love of porn would have helped HBO's ratings."

Yes, but hardly likely, given his tastes: prepubescent slave lads trained to nibble his nether parts in the swimming pool, occasionally thrown off the cliffs of his estate at Capri just for fun. Unfortunately for Drama, he was both hard-working and moderately successful as emperor, and at the same time massively depressive. In a word: a pervert, but boring, boring, boring. Here again the story would have to be the more colorful characters around him.

 

"They do have trouble wrapping their brains around these names. But, honestly, who can keep track of these bloodlines?"

This is all too true. The Julio-Claudian dynasty's genetic and affiliational flow chart is impossibly complicated. Even experts have a hard time keeping them all clear. Perhaps the Julio-Claudians themselves did as well.

 

"I agree, for the most part. Some of the dialogue is too modern slang for my tastes and, even with British accents, it's laughable. I'd prefer the ancient tongue with subtitles. I can never get enough authenticity."

Yes indeed. Thanks to Mel Gibson, who has made the silver screen safe for ancient languages. Since we have actual dialogue for some of these scenes, what fun... Cicero's scatalogical diatribe against Marcus Antonius was a direct quote from his Philippics against M.A., which in fact, get even better.

 

"Sorry, but I'm not into round-faced chubby-cherubs, and the thought of him naked conjures nothing similar to the thought of Antony sitting on my face. I can't help but wonder what his sweaty, war-torn pits smell like."

To each his own. I like Marcus Agrippa's goodness and intelligence as well as his cherubic face. I can only dream at this point what he's like when his clothes come off....

 

"Suetonius' The Twelve Ceasars is by far the best read. It's just too dishy to put down."

Yes. Suetonius was Director of the Imperial Archives under Hadrian from 112 to 122, during which time he presumably wrote his great work. It is gossipy, juicy, sexy, surprisingly judicious in matters of state (you will learn from him that private behavior and public policy are not always closely related, a lesson we could perhaps take to heart), and best of all, true.

 

By the way, I like your use of red for quotes. How do you do that?

[RockHard]

"prepubescent slave lads trained to nibble his nether parts in the swimming pool, occasionally thrown off the cliffs of his estate at Capri just for fun"

 

Sounds like my method of getting rid of lazy assistants. Instead of the swimming pool, I use my tub with Jacuzzi jets and, in place of the cliff, I throw them over my terrace's wrought-iron railing. :-) It's a good thing I live in a high-rise.

 

The Gabinetto Segreto in the Naples National Archaeological Museum houses some fascinating porn pieces from ancient times. It wouldn't surprise me if some are from Tiberius' private collection.

 

"Even experts have a hard time keeping them all clear. Perhaps the Julio-Claudians themselves did as well."

 

I'm sure there were many offspring we know nothing about. These folk were horny as hell and did not practice safe sex.

 

"Thanks to Mel Gibson, who has made the silver screen safe for ancient languages."

 

I did not love The Passion of the Christ and I'm no fan of Mel Gibson, his films, or his views on anything. My theologian intellectual friends tell me he got the language wrong and Jesus never spoke Aramaic. Who am I to argue such things? But I was relieved by his decision to not have the characters speak in English.

 

There's plenty of ancient text around for some ground-breaking director to make a worthy work of art. I wish that director good luck since art + Hollywood is an oxymoron (most of the time).

 

"I can only dream at this point what he's like when his clothes come off...."

 

He's chubby with a pubic fat-flap, ungroomed pubic hair, tight-to-the-body balls, and a very small penis. But I completely agree, "to each his own." It is said that Agrippa was full-bodied, possibly as wide as the Pantheon, oh my.

 

"By the way, I like your use of red for quotes. How do you do that?"

 

It's basic html, DCForum style. I'm sure instructions are offered somewhere. It took me a minute to figure it out soon after I joined. I'm sure deej can show you the way. :-)

 

Here's the code: {font color=red}{i}"text"{/i}{/font}

 

Simply replace the curly brackets {} with the square brackets[]. Other colors can be used. Quotation marks are not necessary. Good luck.

[+ Lucky]

I knew your posts often had me seeing red, but I didn't know that it was supposed to be that way!

[+ Axiom2001]

Yes, :9 "He was quite the Roman sausage..." :9 ...such a beautiful young man! I was sorry to see the demise of his character by his being murdered!

[Rod Hagen]

John Boreman (sp) is shooting The Memoirs of Hadrian this spring w/Antonio Banderas (sp) as Hadrian. If you haven't read this Masterwork I highly recommend you do. It's one of the greatest books written on any subject. Yourcenar was not long enough on this earth.

[Guest EWC]

In the new episode I saw last night I note that they replaced the twink Octavius with a grownup who is decidely less twinky. Also, Agrippa is really hot. I'll have to go back and check but I think they grew him up, too. Gotta pick up the first season and re-watch it. Must review the Mark Anthony interview with Varinus :9

[pierrot]

et pourtant...she was on it for quite a while, wasn't she near 90 when she died? the first woman immortelle.

[pierrot]

Ok you guys, now I'm really impressed. You must be classics professors at a university.

As to your reading recommendations of Everitt and Galinsky, are these modern enough not to expurgate anything having to do with male-male sex? My only problem with historians is that some are prudish about "gay" sex or love. This tends to be the case of things written previous to the last 20 years or so (well, not counting the Romans themselves like Suetonius), but not always.

[BgMstr4u]

Not a classics professor here, but would be happy to take a stab at it (bad contextual joke). More than a hobby, less than a profession.

 

Galinsky is 2005, serious stuff, doesn't pull punches about anything, including sexuality, but it covers more than the biography -- the whole range of politics, culture, economics. Everitt is 2006, in format a biography, very readable.

 

Augustus was more interested in women than in men sexually, but as we all know, thanks to Foucault, the ancient world's categories were not ours. What interested the Romans was power and honor, not sexual acts as such. As long as you were free and you were the penetrator and the penetratee was legally available to you, you were on the right side of the honor/shame divide. The unfree of course had no honor and what happened to them sexually only mattered insofar as it touched their value as property. To penetrate (in any sense) a free person unlawfully was a very serious matter. For a slave to penetrate a free person was at the very top of the list of shameful sexual acts, which makes it probable that the man who penetrates Servilia from behind in her torture scene is almost certainly a slave, to make her shame as extreme as possible.

 

This is what lies behind the case that Vorenus gets wrong on the Aventine when a man comes for justice against a man who has paid his son a little money to suck his cock. What was missing in the episode was the fact that all free boys were required to wear a sort of dogtag called a "bulla" which identified them as free and warned off any potential molester. The real question Vorenus should have asked was, whether the boy was free (his father is definitely not Roman, from his hairstyle and clothing), and if so, whether he was wearing his bulla at the time. If so, the man should be punished, money or not. If not, the boy was fair game, and his father was at fault and liable for placing another citizen in legal and moral danger by allowing his son to go around without this identification. The other man would have a good legal case against him for defamation or worse. The men of Rome were regularly and colorfully accused of this kind of prostitution in their youth, Julius Caesar and Octavian and Mark Antony not excepted. In fact, the accusation is so regular, and so often met with unconcern, that it was probably in the same moral category as the question of whether or not you inhaled is now. It may have been something of a lark, a way to get some ready cash and make some useful friends if your pater was a tightwad, as quite a lot of them were (and are). If this were the case, and if the son were the initiator of the act, then Vorenus should have followed Pullo's good advice and arranged compensation to satisfy his family's honor and let the father deal with his son later.

 

In any event, the escort profession was inclusive of the better elements back then, and for that reason could be a dangerous game.

[+ purplekow]

I believe Pullo makes the comment that Vereneus is attempting to start a war on the Palantine so as to be killed and freed from the life he has been forced to suffer. So it may be the Vereneus was looking for an excuse to rule against the men who came with the complaint. He also offers that Marcus Bulbo (I believe that is the name) is a powerful man on the Palantine and so Vereneus also may be protecting the interests of the rich in forbidding this murder.

 

The timing in this episode was peculiar in that it is clear that Octavius has aged and is now played by an older actor, while Vereneus' children have not aged at all or at least very little. This was an done to allow the development the upcoming storyline of the children's return to their father, but it seems it was poorly executed, which is not the usual for this series.

[BgMstr4u]

Two interesting points.

 

Vorenus is clearly not interested in justice, but violence. His character is a study in uncontrolled passion. The contrast with Pullo is deliberate: Pullo is driven by his bodily appetites, Vorenus by anger, and it is clear which one has the happier life. Food, sex, alcohol, physical violence all take their price on Pullo, but Vorenus's anger sets larger evils in motion. Vorenus's character just gets darker and darker. I wonder if he will come out of it, or if he, like so many others in this stark drama, will self-destruct or be cast aside when the forces he unleashes are too powerful for him to manage, as they were for Duro. That attitude is consistent with Roman religious beliefs: your governing passions lead you to your fate, so be careful of your own nature. This is why Augustus is so self-controlled, which drives his mother Atia crazy.

 

Atia, by the way, died during Octavian's first Consulship, in 43 BC, at the age of 42. She was married during the time the series covers to a virtuous but timid man named Lucius Marcius Philippus, who has been written out of the picture. Most of the historical references picture her as a virtuous and kind person, not at all the debauched schemer of the series. To my knowledge the relationship in the series with Mark Antony is unsuppported by the sources. I suppose the rivalry with Servilia is built up for dramatic purposes.

 

Bringing in Simon Woods for Max Pirkis as Caesar Octavian would seem to imply the passage of a long period of time, but in fact, this is only a few months of actual time, so the show is correct chronologically. I suppose the substitution of Woods for Pirkis at this point in the series is to underline Octavian's sudden maturation in command, which also seems to be true.

[JT Brooklyn]

BgMstr4u...Thanks for the Great Explanation of all thing's going on in ROME! I am Sorry to see that this is the Last Season also.

 

I guess I will just have to console myself by watching "I CLAUDIUS" But yet again, with all the Crazy Relative's who inhabited and ran ROME!

 

History does Repeat Itself! LOL :P

[Rod Hagen]

Damn. She did live a long life. How come so few of her books, Memoirs, The Abyss, the one with "fire" in the title, one or two others, are translated into english then?