Escort on Escort Violence ...

[SAdler]

>Quite a few... except Scott (for a while). Thank you, all, for

>playing the 'Whodunit' pre-cruise mystery game

 

So I wasn't planning on making a big deal but I figured coming home from Miami with a bang was the best idea. We've all known that IceFireWizard was someone among us for a while but have really not cared enough to delve into it.

 

Thus after a little prodding I finally decided to put an end to it. I've never been a fan of speaking ill of escorts publicly in any way. It's much like the issue I've taken with blogging page six style about someone because it's essentially trying to take away someone else's business to bolster your own. It's sad and is typically pretty transparent. The only thing worse than blatant escort on escort cattiness is faux client or escorts creating new personas to rag on other escorts.

 

With the Wiz we've seen a lot of negative commentary on myself, Derek and Rick, seemingly angry responses to previous clients of the escort, among other exchanges that are just upsetting.

 

Upon his discovery, I was "insulted" again by being called "slow" and then offered a blue drink on the ship as an apology for having posted things about me like:

 

"Sooooo superficial... YAWN" about the blog,

 

"Three weeks ago, you didn't look at all like that" and continuing a

negative rant on my body despite the glass house having stones thrown out of it being completely shattered.

 

"don't tell me you never put clients in danger when you were underage

escort. This isn't your first lie here..." Perhaps he's even a mean girl from the board at the same time.

 

Give or take this post (mixed and matched) was my response in a private message to the escort in question ...

 

I have NEVER been rude to him on the boards or said ANYTHING negative to or about him yet he created an alternate persona to bolster himself and bring other escorts down. There is no excuse aside from an open apology to the boards for being so petty and immature admitting that he has made a serious mistake and understand why what he did was wrong.

 

One has to question if work is that slow for him that the need to put others down under a fake name (that everyone could see right through) and finally just got fed up with and decided to expose you was necessary.

 

Time to grow up. Everyone needs to realize that working together is the best thing we can all do. Too often the gay community eats its own in an effort to get ahead for themselves. It's sad that this macro-sized problem trickles down into our subculture that is already pretty damned oppressed.

 

So the general question to be posed to the board here is:

 

(1) Am I out of line for being upset and commenting on this?

(2) How do clients feel when they see one escort speaking negatively about a colleague?

[JT Brooklyn]

Well Said Scott. Totally Agree..

 

Of course in JT BKLYN's case, it also goes to "Personal Comments" made towards me..Even Today in "Ask An Escort" Apparently he never learned even after ALL these year's of "Working It"..

 

You never Insult the Cliednt's..It's Bad for Biz! No matter how many Reg's you have left! Or Think you have left! LOL

 

 

But of course that comes from HIM knowing I wouldn't Even "Screw Him with a Dildo", FOR FREE..LOL

 

Sadly as his "Fan Club" has definitely dwindled down to a few, his Remark's towards other's Both Working and Non-Working Guy's is growing.

 

BUT soon he will be Silent again, as he goes back to his Humble abode Somewhere in Europe! Where they are known for their Chocolates, and Apparently in your Case.."Waffles"! L O L

:P

[Rick Munroe]

>(1) Am I out of line for being upset and commenting on this?

 

Of course not. I think it's great that you addressed it head-on while not revealing his name; even when he attacked you repeatedly from behind an anonymous alias, you still took the high road (a bit of a wordy road, but that's your style ). The stuff he wrote about me was nothing compared to the nastiness directed at you (and his former clients). I don't get where that anger comes from (maybe Michael Richards can explain it to us). Even if you, he and I were similar types, it would still be wrong, but since we're all quite different, I don't see what he was hoping to gain.

[JT Brooklyn]

Rick..I am sure there are more "Losses than Gains" in the Long Run!

[SAdler]

>you still took

>the high road (a bit of a wordy road, but that's your style )

 

ME? Wordy? NEVER!

[Guest PWIT]

>(1) Am I out of line for being upset and commenting on this?

 

Out of line for being upset? Well, not sure anyone would be justified telling someone what they should be upset about. My personal assesment of you (from my very limited exposure to you - lets correct that soon!) is that you feel things deeply.

 

Out of line for commenting? Not at all. Just put some distance between the time you put your thoughts down in print and the time you hit 'post'.

 

>(2) How do clients feel when they see one escort speaking

>negatively about a colleague?

 

When done with malice, it is very unappealing. I am very curious about how escorts view each other. As you and others know, I often ask about which other escorts you know and like. I guess I am always trying to find recommendations from all reliable sources <hehe>.

 

OK Scottie - try not to let it get under your skin. Big bear hug to you <yes that is my hand on your ass!> :9

[SmallTownJohn]

We have a mysterious wizard on the boards??

 

Does his an-noose hang low like sleeve of wizard?

**for any fellow BORAT folk**

 

 

John

SmallTownJohn1@gmail.com

 

http://www.men4rentnow.com/ds/search.asp?cmd=view&id=102838&Login=SmallTownJohn1

 

http://www.daddysreviews.com/review.php?who=small_town_john_atlanta

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I think there's a side to all escorts that remains hypercompetitive: We're in a business of choice and that selection is wide, causing us to (either publically or privately) make judgement calls, good, bad or indifferent, about our fellow rentboys.

 

Is this wrong? Hell yes. If done with mal-intent.

 

I admit to sharing my fair share of opinions on situations in the past, but have really tried to clean up my act and realize that in the longrun it's truly meaningless. In concentrating less on outside drama and more on myself, i've found greater maturity and ultimate solace. I'm nowhere near perfect, but as always, do try to walk that line in the most upright way possible.

 

 

Scott, i'm glad you brought this to light: There is no room in this microchasm of gay-dom for anything less than face-front opinions. We (escorts) all take our fair share of criticism, but it's always easier to deal with when we know who it's coming from.

 

 

BN

[Guest TNT Ted]

Am I the only one on this message board that doesn't know who you're talking about?

[Guest RandyRon]

>Am I the only one on this message board that doesn't know who

>you're talking about?

 

 

Thank goodness someone else admits they are in the dark. I haven't a clue what this is about.:+

 

Sounds like some kind of cat fight but since I don't have a cat in the battle, I'm out of it.

[Newbienyc]

Talk about being under a cloud, shaded from the truth. Can someone give a clue (no names for discretion) as to who this is so newbie's dont' make a mistake in hiring and put a bad taste in their mouth...so to speak.

Cheers

[SAdler]

Far be it for me to be blatantly outward about this:

 

http://m4m.m4m-forum.org/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=8774&mesg_id=8774&page=

 

I don't mind helping to connect the obvious dots though

[Rick Munroe]

Good post, Scott. Not too wordy, to-the-point...it was almost "European" in its conciseness.

[Guest PWIT]

>I don't mind helping to connect the obvious dots though

 

OK...I still need a few more dots. I'm getting jet burns from all the items buzzing over my head. ;(

[RockHard]

RE: Violence? Talk about overwrought.

 

Scott does tend to speak in extremes.

 

I don't think I really care about Wiz-boy but Scott does give good private eye. I admit to being curious about any escort who would hide behind an ordinary username, posing as just another customer, for the purpose of ragging on fellow escorts. Anyone have the balls to reveal his escort identity? Fair play is fair, after all.

 

"(1) Am I out of line for being upset and commenting on this?"

I can't judge anyone's anger: emotions are so personal. As for commenting out loud, I doubt anyone could stop you. Some people think they can say whatever they want and, as long as they include a smiley face, they're quite comfortable being "out of line." I tend to think these are only words so all is OK with me. Words can make a fun weapon when someone crosses the line.

 

"(2) How do clients feel when they see one escort speaking negatively about a colleague?"

I dislike it much and I've said so. It's immature and childish and I will not pay for such behavior. It's not the behavior of a good man and I only want to fuck with good men. Healthy competition is good until you display your insecurities. Jealousy isn't healthy.

 

Escorts bullying customers is also inexcusable. I've been very vocal on this board about one escort's contempt for board members. For me, contempt is pretty obvious, especially in the service businesses. Escorts who think they're doing someone a favor by playing bully are stupid, broke fools who clearly hate what they're doing. You can't be a successful businessman in sales if you demonstrate hate and disrespect for the customer. (S&M is another subject.)

 

Will this thread change anything? I doubt it. There are just too many unhappy gay guys out there and too few places to get a thrill on. At least Daddy provides this disjointed oasis. Thank you, Daddy! :-)

[JT Brooklyn]

PWIT. This will be a One Time, Big Time Hint...

'Travel Section'..Monarch of The Seas...

 

Now I know Very Few Read.. "The Travel Section"..

 

It's not ALWAY'S about Travel! L O L :P

[Newbienyc]

RE: Violence? .

 

Thank You, Mr. Adler!!!! I was about to make a mistake....the very one in question. I owe you one. Someday our paths will cross and you'll be duley rewarded. Cheers!

[Steven_Draker]

No excuse, SIR !

 

I'm sorry I have been delayed with this post, but I had an overnight clients on Tuesday and Wednesday night and then, right after, had a long day flying from Tampa to San Francisco.

 

During my flight, I had a chance to think about this Board, about honesty, about the escort community, about my Thanksgiving Post, about a lot of things.

 

As everyone knows here, English is not my native language. But I hope that what I say can be understood as being sincere, because it is.

 

I want to say to everyone that I agree with Scott. He is right. It IS important for us escorts to try to respect one another. It's something like being on the same team. Sure boyz will be boyz, sure there will be some cattiness, and sure there will be competitiveness. But the BOTTOM LINE should be one of mutual respect.

 

And, in that, I made a mistake.

 

It is no secret that other escorts here use aliases in HBMC. So what. I need to be concerned about me. I need to be honest with myself if I value my credibility as a quality escort.

 

This line of work can be stressful - you have to deal with all kinds of people. There can be days when this job is damn tough! Worse, problems at home don't always wait there silently for you.

 

But, for me to use IFW on several occasions to undercut my fellow escort, Scott Adler, was wrong.

 

My catty remarks did not show him respect and, for that, I apologize.

 

IFW's motto used to say: "Credibility, like virginity, once lost can never be regained." A friend of mine pointed out that this is not correct. Some people can and do learn from their mistakes, and it actually makes them a better person.

 

It is my intention to learn from this mistake.

 

 

Sincerely,

Steven Draker ~

http://www.hotsexystud.com/uk

 

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/respect.jpg

[SAdler]

RE: No excuse, SIR !

 

Though well written (despite your warning of English as a second language) and appreciated ... the apology almost just seems forced. You expect to learn from something and what your apologizing for barely scratches the surface.

 

I'm not aware of other escorts with aliases but regardless if they do, it has not appeared that they've used these to ATTACK (not merely undercut) their colleagues as well as past clients.

 

I'm not the only one that deserves an apology here, Rick and JT among others have been your targets. I was just the one to call you out on it (and even then you continued to be insulting in saying I was "slow to catch on.") and thus the impression I get this is forced.

 

What a few of us are trying to understand is what exactly you expected to gain from this process.

 

(AND MY FINAL EDIT)

 

...is that your apology post comes in with AMAZINGLY coincidental timing with a client on these boards publicly announcing he wouldn't want to hire you after this has come to light. It all just seems so convenient.

 

I know that by writing this response in the way that I am I'll have groups of people yelling at me for beating a dead horse but I just wanted my concerns and questions addressed.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: No excuse, SIR !

 

I think it's great that he apologized to you, but I also think it's a cop-out to blame it all on stress. If it were stress-related, you'd think he would have lashed out at others but he restricted his attacks to fellow (popular) escorts and former (dissatisfied) clients.

 

So, just like with the Rev. Ted Haggard, will there be a team stepping in to begin the redemption process?

[+ deej]

RE: No excuse, SIR !

 

Where's Donnie when we need him?

 

Be careful building glass houses, boys. They tend to be fragile.

[SAdler]

RE: No excuse, SIR !

 

>Where's Donnie when we need him?

 

Who's Donnie?

 

>Be careful building glass houses, boys. They tend to be

>fragile.

 

And what would this be referring to?

[+ ArVaGuy]

RE: No excuse, SIR !

 

Steven

 

I have been following this thread since its inception and for a while suspected that IFW was your alter ego. I decided to wait until you responded to give you the chance to explain yourself to Scott, Rick, JTB, the members of this board community, and your clients. The longer it took for your response the more questions in my mind were raised but I can understand the need to reflect on your actions and that “business matters” would play a part as well. Like Scott, I wonder what you expected to gain from these actions.

 

It’s one thing to have an alternate handle on this board to allow one’s self the freedom to say things they would not normally under their more established persona, however, it is certainly a more serious matter to use an alternate persona to attack fellow escorts and former clients. To me this is an issue of character and raises the question just who is this ‘Steven Draker’ who attacks escorts and clients under an assumed identity? Can he be trusted?

 

Friendly competition amongst escorts is to be expected, hell it can be entertaining to watch how you guys act on this board at times. But escorts, beside your self, who blatantly attack the competition in bolgs or in private with clients, reveal things about themselves that should give any potential client pause in hiring them.

 

What’s worse, an escort who blogs his attacks under his own name as “gossip” or another who creates an alternate persona for the same purpose? I will let others decide how they feel about such but for me such practices raise questions regarding discretion and taking the risk of hiring them.

 

You state in your apology that “this line of work can be stressful - you have to deal with all kinds of people. There can be days when this job is damn tough! Worse, problems at home don't always wait there silently for you.” I have never been one to buy in to the purported glamour related to escorting.

 

I am sympathetic to the working boys here recognizing that there are stresses related to trolling for new clients, keeping the established ones, staying in shape, performing on demand and let’s face it having sex with some physically undesirable people. Plus there’s tons of competition out there and more every day it seems. Add to that the periods of feast or famine when you are raking in the dough and times when there is a drought.

 

But here’s the rub Steven, you chose this line of work. You have set yourself up as one of the “quality escorts” and charge a premium for that service. This stressful line of work has afforded you the opportunity to travel to various places in the States and in Europe. Last time I checked, week long cruises are not cheap either so your clients have afforded you a comfortable lifestyle.

 

Your own actions have called your credibility in to question. You appear to be taking responsibility for those actions. It’s up to those you offended to decide if they believe you or not. In this instance Steven, I will have to tell you that it’s deeds, not words that reveal more about a person’s character. I hope that you have sincerely learned from this experience.

[RockHard]

RE: Stephen Draker is Wiz-boy?

 

"I'm sorry I have been delayed with this post"

My, my, my...not at all what I expected. I guess I really don't spend much time on this board because I never would have made this guess.

 

"the apology almost just seems forced...(it) barely scratches the surface"

How utterly tacky to judge a gentleman's apology as "not enough." Scott Adler, you remind my why I refuse to live in L.A.: it's very hard to find good men there.

 

The following lines deserve to be highlighted:

"I want to say to everyone that I agree with Scott.

the BOTTOM LINE should be one of mutual respect.

I made a mistake.

I need to be honest with myself if I value my credibility as a quality escort.

to use IFW on several occasions to undercut my fellow escort, Scott Adler, was wrong.

My catty remarks did not show him respect and, for that, I apologize.

It is my intention to learn from this mistake."

 

I can't remember the last time I read such fervent contrition. But, sadly, it appears to be not enough for Scott. Does Scott Adler ever have enough? Is he ever satisfied?

 

If I were Scott, I'd graciously accept Mr. Draker's apology and drop the whole thing. But we know that won't happen because Scott can never get enough.

 

I don't recall IceFireWizard ever saying anything terribly scandalous but I remember Scott's uproar over my "insider" reference to a tiny pot belly. What was supposed to be a cute, innocent joke turned into a bloated, self-indulgent, 3000-view diatribe, with Scott stoking the flames. As if a little body fat might ruin his career. (such VIOLENCE!)

 

I'm not excusing Mr. Draker's poor choices but, let's be honest: in the scheme of things, this isn't a big deal. I'm stunned and very impressed with Mr. Draker's apology (very rare on these boards) and I'm disappointed in Mr. Adler's refusal to accept it graciously. Who gets my wallet? That's a no-brainer.

 

For some people, forgiveness is harder than offering an apology. And since no man is perfect, I'd rather play with the atoner than hang with the man unwilling to forgive.

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: Stephen Draker is Wiz-boy?

 

Let's not forget some Guy's have been "Working It" for along time!

 

IF they haven't learned certain thing's by now, Apologies from them are really just a PLOY, to hang on to whatever is left of a Job!

 

Whether you "Make Your Bed or Work in It" once a True Personality Show's, I for one do take notice of it!

 

The little Snide remark's started way before Scott started getting them also! I first noticed it, when Ricky, Lar's and Ricky Milos received them.

 

But this "IFW Situation" has made them more obvious. More than I am sure Draker ended up liking them to be, for sure!

 

Personally I think, he's going to be "Making The Bed, alot more often, than be Working In It"!

 

IMHO of course..LOL

:P