Straight men/gay group

[+ friendofsheila]

I'm a member of an organization of gay men who are planning to become fathers (adoption, surrogacy, co-parenting, et. al.). I run an ad for the group in an online forum and let the respondents know that I will forward their contact info to the leaders of the group for meeting notification.

 

Lately have come several straight men who want to join our organization. They've looked for organizations that would offer support in their plans to have children in an alternative family arrangement and have found nothing. When the first one (I'll call him "Walter") asked to join, I asked the leader (let's call him "Joe") what our policy is about this and Joe said "Our policy is gay only." Joe then did not respond to Walter's email that I forwarded to him, asking Joe to tell Walter himself what the policy is.

 

Another man ("Bob") has asked since and I don't feel good about turning him away. It is my plan to forward the new request on to Joe for him to respond to, expecting Bob will get rejected or ignored. I've also talked to Bob and said that I don't like this policy and want it to change; he's willing to bow out promptly if the leadership says "no," but will write a letter or whatever to assist me. I plan to approach the leaders asking them to reconsider, and if met with rejection, to ask members to go to them, too.

 

Well, before I go into my reasonings and thoughts about the topic, I'd like to see if anyone else has dealt with this sort of thing before, or has any other suggestions.

 

**No Hijacks, please**

[+ deej]

My first question, I think, would be whether this is primarily a gay group or primarily a parenting group. It seems you have that answer.

 

I, for one, might question my involvement in a parenting group that excludes potentially like-minded participants based on their sexuality. But that's just me. Lord knows gay men have been excluded from things for no better reason. You'd think we'd be more moderate about it.

 

Without canvassing the membership, nobody can really know what the group actually represents.

[RockHard]

"Without canvassing the membership, nobody can really know what the group actually represents."

Which is why I've said, you can't know someone's truth unless you can step into his shoes and life is almost never black and white.

 

I'm not fond of groups hellbent on segregating, especially if the subject of discussion is universal. There weren't many gay men's "father" groups around when I became a dad but there were many single mothers who helped me, and their stories of motherhood differed dramatically. I'm not sure what I would have done without those smart, wise women.

 

Currently, NYC has quite a few groups but I'm not familiar with their policies. I feel your heart is in the right place but every group has its politics and preferences. Good luck stating your case and getting leadership to see things your way. If that doesn't go well, you can always start your own group. :-)

[+ friendofsheila]

>My first question, I think, would be whether this is

>primarily a gay group or primarily a parenting group. It seems

>you have that answer.

 

All the events that are not discussions involve gay-oriented topics, like screenings of "gay-father" documentaries. These types of events are probably less than half of the meetings.

 

The majority of the events that are discussions involve dealing with the processes of surrogacy, co-parenting, etc., and only mention the gay portion of it a little ("this country doesn't allow adoptions by gays," "this agency is one that accepts gay clients," "this school has a good gay-parent policy").

 

I personally don't hear THAT much gay-oriented discussion, even when we do have a gay person who has been through one of the processes. I'm inclined to say it is more parenting-oriented.

[+ friendofsheila]

...every group has its politics and preferences. Good luck

>stating your case and getting leadership to see things your

>way. If that doesn't go well, you can always start your own

>group. :-)

 

Yeah, I'm sure it will come down to politics and preferences, since it is a group started by an individual, not a chartered/organized group in any way. They are of a certain, monied ilk and have shown themselves already to have a certain way of doing things

 

Like several other things in my life, I'm finding that if I want to find something particular, I have to create my own version. If it comes to that, it'll be while since I'm still finishing school. Thanks for the good wishes.

[+ friendofsheila]

>Hi Friend of Sheila,

>

>I truly feel that if we want the straight men and women to

>accept us gay men and women the way we are, then we gay men

>and women have to accept straight men and women the way they

>are as well. How can we expect others to be tolerant and

>liberal if we're not tolerant and liberal ourselves?

 

I agree. The only arguments I could come up in MY mind for keeping it a gay group were arguments straight people would have long used against us.

 

>

>But that's just my opinion (or suggestion). I admit that it's

>easy for me to have that opinion in a country where things are

>liberal.

>

Surprising, huh? And this is in a huge city with a giant gay population. I wish people would think a little harder sometimes...

[+ deej]

Correction:

 

>I wish people would think a little harder sometimes...

 

:-)

 

Best of luck!

[+ purplekow]

Why not just tell the prospective new member to come to a meeting? Even if your group were mostly gay centered rather than parent centered, your guest would be the one to best assess if he is likely to have a useful experience in the group. If he is familiar with the nature of the group, he should not try to bring up topics which would not pertain to the group as a whole and he should be willing to accept that all topics may not be of interest to him. This would be true of any member.

And unless you have to pass some sort of gaydar detector at the door, your friend's sexual orientation may never become an issue.

[+ friendofsheila]

>Why not just tell the prospective new member to come to a

>meeting?

 

>And unless you have to pass some sort of gaydar detector at

>the door, your friend's sexual orientation may never become an

>issue.

 

The group leaders have indicated that they do NOT want a straight person to be a member (they even had a problem when a person attended, as my guest, who was there to ask questions of the men but failed to identify himself to the group, in the "group sharing" portion, as an outsider). And "Bob" has indicated that he does not wish to deceive anyone and will disclose his non-gay status immediately as a matter of principle.

 

Respecting both of those positions is part of what makes this situation awkward.

 

As to your second point, I really agree. A) NO OTHER INSTITUTION in the community requires me to declare I'm gay to participate (not even a freaking gay bathhouse, fer gawd's sake) and B) the policy encourages people to lie if they want to join.

[+ purplekow]

.

>

>The group leaders have indicated that they do NOT want a

>straight person to be a member (they even had a problem when a

>person attended, as my guest, who was there to ask questions

>of the men but failed to identify himself to the group, in the

>"group sharing" portion, as an outsider). And "Bob" has

>indicated that he does not wish to deceive anyone and will

>disclose his non-gay status immediately as a matter of

>principle.

>

>Respecting both of those positions is part of what makes this

>situation awkward.

>

[+ purplekow]

>.

>>

>>The group leaders have indicated that they do NOT want a

>>straight person to be a member (they even had a problem when

>a

>>person attended, as my guest, who was there to ask questions

>>of the men but failed to identify himself to the group, in

>the

>>"group sharing" portion, as an outsider). And "Bob" has

>>indicated that he does not wish to deceive anyone and will

>>disclose his non-gay status immediately as a matter of

>>principle.

>>

>>Respecting both of those positions is part of what makes

>this

>>situation awkward.

>>

>Of what are the leaders of this group afraid? Straight isn't contagious. Are they concerned that straight men may have an advantage in the adoption arena and are thereby trying to even the playing field by not sharing information? Is there a legitimate reason for excluding straight men or is it just arbitrary and hurtful?

Ultimately, any group which has adoption as a goal, should have the interests of the children who are to be adopted as the main focus.

If straight men can't come to the meetings, how about bisexual men? Can they come to half the meeting?

[BigK]

The leaders of this group are way off base. I'll bet the majority of your group would vote to be inclusive. Why not mutiny. I'm serious. I think its repulsive to discriminate after all the discrimination gays have suffered. We should be above this petty discrimination.

 

The main issue has to be the male parenting. Don't let these misguided leaders cheapen your organization. We want to be treated equally so we should lead the way in treating others EQUALLY!

 

Pick a couple other like minded members of your group and take the bull by the horns and start your own parallel group. Your group will be stronger by being inclusive.

 

btw, good luck on becoming a parent. I think that's great.

[BigK]

The leaders of this group are way off base. I'll bet the majority of your group would vote to be inclusive. Why not mutiny. I'm serious. I think its repulsive to discriminate after all the discrimination gays have suffered. We should be above this petty discrimination.

 

The main issue has to be the male parenting. Don't let these misguided leaders cheapen your organization. We want to be treated equally so we should lead the way in treating others EQUALLY!

 

Pick a couple other like minded members of your group and take the bull by the horns and start your own parallel group. Your group will be stronger by being inclusive.

 

btw, good luck on becoming a parent. I think that's great.

[+ friendofsheila]

PURPLEKOW: Of what are the leaders of this group afraid?

I wish I knew. Maybe this will come out when I bring it up to the leaders formally. Or maybe it won’t be a problem if they’ve changed their minds since the last time it came up.

 

BIG K: Why not mutiny. I'm serious. I think its repulsive to discriminate after all the discrimination gays have suffered. We should be above this petty discrimination.

 

I plan to get started if the current person requesting membership gets rejected.

 

The main issue has to be the male parenting. Don't let these misguided leaders cheapen your organization. We want to be treated equally so we should lead the way in treating others EQUALLY!

 

I’m pleased to report that “Bob” was permitted into another group that identifies itself as part of the “queer” community. (Sadly, he says it is falling apart and so wanted to join us.) I was just as pleased to see them accepting him as him wanting to be a part of them.

 

btw, good luck on becoming a parent. I think that's great.

 

Thanks for the good wishes!

[+ friendofsheila]

PURPLEKOW: Of what are the leaders of this group afraid?

I wish I knew. Maybe this will come out when I bring it up to the leaders formally. Or maybe it won’t be a problem if they’ve changed their minds since the last time it came up.

 

BIG K: Why not mutiny. I'm serious. I think its repulsive to discriminate after all the discrimination gays have suffered. We should be above this petty discrimination.

 

I plan to get started if the current person requesting membership gets rejected.

 

The main issue has to be the male parenting. Don't let these misguided leaders cheapen your organization. We want to be treated equally so we should lead the way in treating others EQUALLY!

 

I’m pleased to report that “Bob” was permitted into another group that identifies itself as part of the “queer” community. (Sadly, he says it is falling apart and so wanted to join us.) I was just as pleased to see them accepting him as him wanting to be a part of them.

 

btw, good luck on becoming a parent. I think that's great.

 

Thanks for the good wishes!

[RockHard]

Some men may want to check out this lengthy article, "Gay Donor or Gay Dad?," from the NY Times Sunday Magazine:

 

http://select.nytimes.com/preview/2006/11/19/magazine/1154653761824.html?8tpw&emc=tpw

[+ friendofsheila]

>Some men may want to check out this lengthy article, "Gay

>Donor or Gay Dad?," from the NY Times Sunday Magazine:

>

>http://select.nytimes.com/preview/2006/11/19/magazine/1154653761824.html?8tpw&emc=tpw

 

Link requires subscriber login.

[RockHard]

Registration to the NYTimes is free and I highly recommend it. However, if compulsory registrations annoy you, try BugMeNot.com.

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

>However, if compulsory registrations annoy you, try

>BugMeNot.com.

 

Now THAT is a cool website! Thanks for that great link Mr. RH!

 

VDN