AJ Doyle

My version would be:
 
“Hey! I saw your profile on Rentmen. I may be interested in hiring you as a companion.
 
Here is what I like doing: kissing with tongue, being on top...
 
Can you host? And how much for X hours of your time?
Based on the above, do you think we are compatible?
If yes, I am available this afternoon or tomorrow evening after 8pm.
 
Thanks!"
 
Basically you can say you want to hire them as a companion and for a price. And you can state what you like. And you can ask if he feels you two are compatible.
 
You shouldn’t say things like “how much more for you to bottom?”

I agree with others on disclosing that info upfront. Not to make the escort comfortable, but to avoid an awkward situation for yourself. Or to avoid wasting your valuable time. And no you can't assume just cause their ad doesn't say they have racial hangups that they don't have them. Now if they say they are open to all types then yeah it's a safer bet. But most guys that have racial hangups probably are NOT going to put it in their ad. In my case I once had a client not tell me his race. I got there and he had this nervous look on his face that could have been avoided by just telling me beforehand. The whole time he waited for me to arrive he had to wonder... Of course I was okay with his race and we had a great time together. But not everyone is open, so save yourself the trouble.

I once had a guy wait till next morning after an over-night to tell me he had no cash. No paypal. Only a check. Took the check as what other option do I have at this point? Of course the check was written from a closed acct. I wish there was a bad date list to put him! :-( I decided to chalk it up as cost of doing business though. Like when someone steals from a clothing store and the store has to eat the cost.... The "forgot the money in the car" though that's even more messed up. Other than the check writing fool though I've been pretty lucky I guess.

The market will pay what it can afford. NYC is a different market than Milwaukee. Since when was $500 an hour low end? I know I was gone for a bit but seriously?!?! My unprofessional opinion is the OP is on bad crack and should seek help.
 
Hugs,
Greg

So, a month and a half after the date of starting to “raise the rate” that this letter was inciting, 2 questions:
1. Who among you escorts have raised their rate by $100 and maintained it there?
2. Who among you clients have paid an extra $100 an hour for an escort?

I know I said I was done with this thread. And I am. But allegations of child trafficking (?!?) warrant a response from me, even if they are ridiculous, unfounded, and a thinly-feiled attempt to continue bullying me and tarnishing my image long after I excused myself from this conversation.
 
For the record, everyone who I have ever trained into a career as an escort has been OLDER than me (I started escorting when I was 20 and I'm now 28). People sometimes incorrectly assume that escorts who I mentored may have mentored ME, largely because I am noticeably younger. In fact, if you look at the post I made that is being used to stir these allegations, half the point of mentioning that I have trained newbie escorts into the industry was to provide context for my absolute certainty that escorts do not have to be young to succeed, even at a high price point.
 
(But trolls will be trolls.)
 

You did misinterpret some of what I said. Which is completely fair and understandable. I know I wrote a lot. And I was trying to make a series of nuanced points.
 
I don't disagree with anything you express in the quote above. But I don't think it reflects exactly what I said. I did say rates are probably going up as a result of this legislation. Not because it makes sense as a protest. Because that's the most likely result of Congress trying to cut off supply. And you're absolutely right. If demand goes way down, too, that matters. And as you know, I am not a trained economist.
 
Now let me take a few steps back. This discussion is beyond bizarre, as far as I am concerned. And beyond that, the whole situation is beyond bizarre. An online ecosystem that worked incredibly well for me (and you, and most of us here, if I may suggest) is now at risk. It just pisses me off. And I think I'm probably being more consistent than most people here about pointing out, pretty much every time I post on this issue, that the sex trafficking problem is quite real. We ought to be thinking about how we can get a handle on it, rather than being crushed by it. Having said that, my biggest fear is that there's a lot of reactive and wishful thinking going on, starting with Congress. And they are just out to crush us.
 
As far as Blake's proposal is concerned, let me take a step back on that, too. On a separate thread, in the politics section, which he started, he floated the vague idea of somehow making FOSTA "work in our favor." He also said he wanted to direct his information and discussion only to providers. I assumed, incorrectly, that he was talking about some form of protest or organizing. So my reaction, which I stated, was why would you leave clients out? He corrected me, appropriately, and said he had no intention of encouraging people to "speak out." So at that point I just backed off.
 
I jumped back in when he started this thread, which is in the "Ask An Escort" section. I'm sure some of the nuances of what I meant probably weren't clear. But I assumed we're now not talking about protest, or political organizing - which Blake said he is not interested in, at all. We're talking about business, as in what escorts are going to do to resist and survive. I was the one who started using the word "resistance," not Blake.
 
The other thing I said, to put it in context, is that there were elements of what was being said that were "more like politically illiterate." I also said "this is not a unifying response." It isn't exactly shocking that a proposal to raise rates $100 was not well received by the people who would be paying that $100, is it? I implied this by talking about my experience raising rent as a landlord, but now I'll just say it bluntly. If I were going to do that, I wouldn't ask. What's the point? I'd just do it. I've never had a tenant who thanked me for raising their rent. They do thank me when I fix things.
 
Now let me tell you what I liked about it, and still like. And I'm quoting what I said, verbatim, because I don't want to switch the goal posts. I said it seemed like Congress is basically trying to "exterminate you." I view this as young escorts like Blake and Zachary - and I am pretty sure many others, based on what escorts are saying here - who are thinking about how to resist and survive. Again, "resistance" is my word - not their's. Here were Blake's words, verbatim: "We must stand together in unison as sex-workers." So I don't see that as a call to protest. I see it as a business plan to hunker down, resist, and survive. And in that context, I'll repeat what I said, which I still mean. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love the fact that young escorts are thinking about what I view as resistance, and survival.
 
Now, if it were up to me, and I got to dictate how things got done, I would go a different route. I'd try to unify, build a huge coalition, get as many allies as possible, and come up with a long term organizing plan. I did that for about two decades as an organizer, and - sorry - I think I was quite good at it. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what Blake had in mind, and with what this thread is about.
 
Here's another thing I said. Most escorts don't think like organizers, or political activists. But they do tend to think like entrepreneurs. You can criticize whether Blake or Zachary are good at running their business, and some of you have. But absolutely no part of what they are saying surprises me. With all due respect to everyone here - because my core conviction is we are all on the same side - everything they are saying is absolutely predictable. It's exactly what I would predict from a group of people that Congress is trying to - my word again - "exterminate." They are thinking about how to hunker down, resist, and survive.
 
The final and most important part of what I said were these words: supply and demand. A lot of people weighing in here offered their own ideas of how future supply and demand might work. None of us are right, because it's all speculation. So, like you, I'm gazing at a crystal ball.
 
Congress is intentionally trying to cut off supply, and they are hoping that will reduce demand. (NYPD cops in one newspaper article just actually admitted their efforts won't stop "regulars." They are just trying to deter what one cop called "legitimate" people - whatever the fuck that means!). So if you cut off supply without reducing demand, and increase risk, guess what happens? So is it really a surprise that escorts are thinking. "Okay, less is more. We'll have fewer customers, who are regulars, and charge more money." Like that or not, it's a business model that is actually completely consistent with what the NYPD just predicted in the NY Post.
 
So I'm not talking about a form of protest. I'm making guesses about supply and demand. Is that the way it will work? I don't know. I'll repeat it again: it largely depends on how aggressive law enforcement is, and whether that really deters demand. I think you agree. We just don't know that yet. But you are right about this: I do think it's a likely scenario that rates are going to go up as a result of the legislation. A lot of escorts are going to focus on how to survive in a more challenging market, where "regulars" are likely to be looking more than ever for security and discretion.
 
Obviously, it's absurd to talk about decriminalization right now. And it's fair to say that you weren't really saying escorts should lower our rates. But I did mean what I said. If we decriminalized, my best guess is that would increase supply, and would tend to lower rates. That's a huge generalization. But I think it's a fair one if you want a simple one liner about what it's done in countries like Germany. My point was that we are going in exactly the opposite direction, fast. So I'm guessing we'll have the opposite results. I'll say it again. Supply is being cut off almost as we speak. And that is the exact intention of FOSTA. They just took out Backpage, which is huge. We have no idea who is next.
 
It's completely fair for people to criticize the ideas about a business model Blake put up here. And let me say again, "resistance" is my word, not his. But I will repeat the question I asked: if this isn't the right way to resist, what is? That's meant as a rhetorical question, because I don't want to hijack the thread any more than I have already.
 
So here we are. The handwriting has been on the wall for at least a few years. One couldn't help notice Rentboy in 2015, and SESTA being debated last year. So far, it seems like we are much better at reacting than at getting ahead of things. I think many people feel we have no choice. But if that's the case, I'm sorry. Don't be surprised if younger escorts, who feel completely cynical about Congress anyway, focus on a plan to survive this thing. It was completely predictable. If we do nothing else, I'd guess that's about the only place it has to go.
 
I've been asking around to people I know very well and trust. And mostly what I think I hear is that people think it's not worth pushing back, because they don't feel we can actually change anything. If I'm not hearing what people are actually saying, please correct me. It breaks my heart, and I would love to be wrong. But if I'm right, don't be surprised if what happened in Florida happens here. Younger people who are interested in survival are going to go off and do it their way, because it's better than nothing. That should not come as a surprise.
 
Are Zachary and Blake older and wiser? No, of course not. We are. So if we think we have a better idea, we better actually start coming up with it.

I’m curious if gay escorts feel like they are in market competition with hookup sites and guys who have free sex. I’ve always thought of freebies as not being my competition. I feel like some people choose to chase freebies and some choose to hire, mostly depending on their life circumstances. Chasing freebies can be time consuming, especially when seeking to fulfil niche sexual desires.

You’re assuming that all exsisting clients will be needing to pay more, false. Anytime I have raised my rates (several times) I always leave my exsisting clients at their original rate. New clients will pay the new rate. That’s standard business practice in the service industry. I also entirely disagree with you. Fewer platforms means fewer readers? That isn’t true at all. If anything it will be bringing us MORE traffic to RentMen because everyone will need somewhere to go... and also yes, most people don’t get a 30% raise because MOST PEOPLE ARENT SELLING THEIR BODIES FOR MONEY !!! Who would have thought?!

Thanks for the novella- I stand by what I wrote.

For a new client, I would think it's very simple, the payment in cash must be out and visible at the start of the session or the provider leaves. I always make sure my payment is visible when a provider arrives and have never had a problem with the provider seeing it, progressing through the session, and then collecting the payment as he departs.

I think that maybe this can be a no-win situation:

If you ask a client for an advance deposit many freak out and vanish (see the many posts related to refusal to send deposits, including my own)
If you ask a client for payment at the beginning of the meeting many freak out and take off (see the many threads about this “red flag”)
If you wait until the end of the time and the client says “gee - I forgot my wallet. Can I write you a check?” then your choices are to either accept a check in the hopes that it will clear or become more deeply involved with them (No, no checks. I’ll walk with you to an ATM...drive with you to your house.... hold your Timex for you while you go get your wallet... threaten to beat the crap out of you... publish your name and number... etc.)

Beyond avoiding the risk in the first place by screening it’s a difficult problem. With the implementation of the ACA and shift of the privately insured to high-deductible health plans hospitals have been facing an increase in bad debt and difficult collections. (The similarity being receiving payment after services are rendered.)
 
(Regarding bad checks... it might not be a pleasant experience but these can be pursued for a magistrates judgement. The services claimed are whatever is on the providers tax return - masseur, life coach, therapist, etc. Just the threat of this may be helpful in being properly paid, though it may sound like a long shot and involve disclosure of the providers name, address, etc.)

I think you missed the point. Escorts don't "Accept checks." It's a scam this guy was doing. Saying he was gonna pay cash, but then afterward saying he only has a check. Session is over, so there isn't anything you can do but take the check or leave with nothing. It's no different than a guy shoplifting or dining and dashing in my opinion. Some people do the dine and dash with bad checks too, so it's not a NEW scam. I have actually found the majority of clients do NOT put the fee in full sight as you suggested. It seems kind of tacky to demand it be in sight, but I guess it would stop a scam like this. But I think it's a one in a million chance of getting scammed like this, so not worth demanding the cash be out in sight for every client. Seems like if we get to the point of demanding something like that we are being a bit paranoid and need to find a new line of work....
 
I agree on the flakes comment though. They all display certain characteristics that we quickly learn. Even the bad check guy gave hints if I had just followed my gut instinct... To me it was a lesson and not a tragedy. Like u stated it's a cost of doing business. We learn and move on.

I was more joking about the tying up aspect. Like it's a funny idea vs violence in theory...well if one has a dark sense of humor.. It's still highly illegal and I imagine some violence would be required to get him tied up though. So it's only funny to think about doing or joking about it (which was what I was doing ...joking) But it is not funny to actually do it. For me I just took the check knowing it was prob not gonna be a good check and went on my way. I believe in Karma and knew that what he was doing would eventually impact him as the Universe has a way of providing revenge on Her own without our Help!

I think you missed the point. Escorts don't "Accept checks." It's a scam this guy was doing. Saying he was gonna pay cash, but then afterward saying he only has a check. Session is over, so there isn't anything you can do but take the check or leave with nothing. It's no different than a guy shoplifting or dining and dashing in my opinion. Some people do the dine and dash with bad checks too, so it's not a NEW scam. I have actually found the majority of clients do NOT put the fee in full sight as you suggested. It seems kind of tacky to demand it be in sight, but I guess it would stop a scam like this. But I think it's a one in a million chance of getting scammed like this, so not worth demanding the cash be out in sight for every client. Seems like if we get to the point of demanding something like that we are being a bit paranoid and need to find a new line of work....
 
I agree on the flakes comment though. They all display certain characteristics that we quickly learn. Even the bad check guy gave hints if I had just followed my gut instinct... To me it was a lesson and not a tragedy. Like u stated it's a cost of doing business. We learn and move on.

I think you missed the point. Escorts don't "Accept checks." It's a scam this guy was doing. Saying he was gonna pay cash, but then afterward saying he only has a check. Session is over, so there isn't anything you can do but take the check or leave with nothing. It's no different than a guy shoplifting or dining and dashing in my opinion. Some people do the dine and dash with bad checks too, so it's not a NEW scam. I have actually found the majority of clients do NOT put the fee in full sight as you suggested. It seems kind of tacky to demand it be in sight, but I guess it would stop a scam like this. But I think it's a one in a million chance of getting scammed like this, so not worth demanding the cash be out in sight for every client. Seems like if we get to the point of demanding something like that we are being a bit paranoid and need to find a new line of work....
 
I agree on the flakes comment though. They all display certain characteristics that we quickly learn. Even the bad check guy gave hints if I had just followed my gut instinct... To me it was a lesson and not a tragedy. Like u stated it's a cost of doing business. We learn and move on.

I think you missed the point. Escorts don't "Accept checks." It's a scam this guy was doing. Saying he was gonna pay cash, but then afterward saying he only has a check. Session is over, so there isn't anything you can do but take the check or leave with nothing. It's no different than a guy shoplifting or dining and dashing in my opinion. Some people do the dine and dash with bad checks too, so it's not a NEW scam. I have actually found the majority of clients do NOT put the fee in full sight as you suggested. It seems kind of tacky to demand it be in sight, but I guess it would stop a scam like this. But I think it's a one in a million chance of getting scammed like this, so not worth demanding the cash be out in sight for every client. Seems like if we get to the point of demanding something like that we are being a bit paranoid and need to find a new line of work....
 
I agree on the flakes comment though. They all display certain characteristics that we quickly learn. Even the bad check guy gave hints if I had just followed my gut instinct... To me it was a lesson and not a tragedy. Like u stated it's a cost of doing business. We learn and move on.

I am fine going straight to the room or meeting in the lobby. Or meeting in the bar to have a drink beforehand is cool too (as long as the time start with the bar meeting). It's more personal to meet in lobby or hotel bar though and get to know each other a little before you get to the room. I have a regular that to this day still meets me in the lobby. And I really love it.

I do sometimes wonder if others are wondering that about me.... LOL I don't think anyone would guess that about me, but I wonder.

I do sometimes wonder if others are wondering that about me.... LOL I don't think anyone would guess that about me, but I wonder.

OMFG!!! The client that did the same thing to me was visiting Los Angeles from San Francisco!!!!! Holy Batman!! He wrote the check from some brokerage acct that had been closed. And I think he was using a burner phone. It started out as a 2 hour session and half way he asked for an overnight. I told him my fee and he agreed to it. Then next day wrote me a check. I should have just told him to keep it and asked for him to just pay my damn parking and gas!! I wonder if the guy that did this to me is the same guy though? He claimed he was checking out apartments in LA cause he had some bad things happen to him in San Francisco.... He was annoying as Hell which made the bad check even worse. Kept telling me he "loved me!" Because of him though I always add "Paypal or cash only" whenever I send potential clients my rates. For me it didnt escalate. I was pretty sure the check was going to bounce, but I just wanted to get away from him and go home. The phone he was using btw was an Iphone SE...the cheapest Iphone you can get!!

The police were not called. I guess the client had the same the same response all the escorts need ripped off did: will the police be able to help me?
 
I'm not condoning violence and I'm not sharing any info on this escort. And think about it: tying someone to the bed and demanding money doesn't exactly go well in regards to the police or courtroom. It may go better than assault but not a much better option. As for walking the client to an ATM refusing to leave, escorts have tried this. It only results in the client calling the police or security and claiming that this random trick is coming at him for no reason.
 
As for the missing part of my story... The escort had heard about the bad check guy and there was some details and what he heard that tipped him off eventually before the the session was over. I do not know exactly what that is, but since he heard about this client first hand from people the client had ripped off I imagine it was something particular maybe even an ”I love you”.

Well that’s a real bitch ass move to make if you decide to do that. And escort to escort, that makes you look like a hater. Even if I see an escort doing something like advertising as an escort on Grindr or Jack’d (which I have), I wouldn’t go tattle telling on them like a little girl. If anything changes to it, I’ll just go ahead and get my own domain name going...and my RULES will be different.

So to recap... all I said was that something appears to be missing from the story and it seems you agree. IronMaus actually goes on to say "The escort had only heard about the bad check guy. He hadn't seen his varying info sporadically posted online. He didn't know what I knew." which is where it gets a little fuzzy trying to justify the assault. And frankly- there is no justification.
 

End the session. Ask for cash. Offer to escort the client to an ATM in the hotel, or find another method of payment. Insist the client leave their ID behind until the cash is given. Loads of other choices rather than bash somebody's face in. Literally- do not normalize violence based on non-payment or perceived scam.