bostonman

Yes - and I think I've heard various conjectures as to what happened...though the most credible seemed to be about some unkind comments he made about her in public, I think. (I can't remember specifically - but maybe you know?) I have heard (I think this is attributed to Laurents) that Merman's initial dismissal of Sondheim composing Gypsy went something like "no unknown is going to write this score FOR ME!!!" - and Sondheim remembered that "FOR ME" when he helped put together "Rose's Turn"... (Could be apocryphal, but it's a fun story...)

From Finishing The Hat: "Originally, Arthur [Laurents], Jerry [Robbins] and the producers had asked me to write the music as well as the lyrics for the show - but Ethel was reluctant to take a chance on an unknown composer and suggested Jule Styne. Arthur tried to persuade me to write lyrics only, but after West Side Story I was afraid of being pigeonholed forever as a lyricist...so I refused. It was Oscar who convinced me otherwise..." This is essentially always the version of the story I've heard, in various forms. Sondheim was already on the gig before Merman had said anything, and it seems she then only had say on the composing side of things. She may have acquiesced that this Steven guy she didn't know could stay on as lyricist, but she didn't pick or suggest a lyricist - he was clearly already hired. I doubt she "requested that Sondheim only write the lyrics" as you said - I would assume she only went along with the idea because he had already been offered a job with the writing team - and Laurents, Robbins, and the producers, who had hired him, weren't going to let him go entirely. She probably had no real say in the matter. I tend to think that if she did, she would have also requested a lyricist she knew very well, instead of a relative newbie. However (also in a detailed description in Finishing The Hat,) Sondheim DID write the music for "Rose's Turn" - mostly adapted from Styne's tunes, of course, but arranged and routined by Sondheim and Jerome Robbins in a late-night session. So he did have a hand in the music, just a little. There's also a story that intimates that Sondheim may have written both music and lyrics (it's unclear about the music) to an intro verse to "Some People" shortly before opening - he felt the transition from dialogue to song was clumsy and needed that extra bit of help - but Merman refused to learn it - it was too late in the process for her to add or change ANYTHING in her material. As Sondheim relates in the book Sondheim & Co, he was then told the story of Merman refusing to sing a perfected new refrain by Irving Berlin for "The Hostess With The Mostess" - declaring, "call me Miss Bird's Eye - this show is frozen!!"

Merman didn't yet know who Sondheim was. Most people didn't, as he really didn't get the billing and credit he deserved for his lyrics to West Side Story, only 2 years before Gypsy. I don't think Merman "requested" anything of Sondheim - what she requested was a composer she already knew and trusted, to write a score that would fit her. I don't think she had any say in who the lyricist would be. We may forget that Sondheim was still just a kid then - and not a "name" yet. Had producer Lemuel Ayers not passed away in 1955, there's a good chance that Sondheim's first professional show, Saturday Night, would have been on Broadway that year, and he would have had something to his credit as a composer. But as it is, there wasn't a full production of that show until 1997. But even with his wonderful lyrics for West Side, Sondheim was still an unknown, and there's no logical way that Merman would have "requested" he do the lyrics. Only perhaps that she ok'd his participation once it was set. She was really only concerned about who was writing the score.

We all felt, in the context of the moment, that that's what that was, but Herman tried to explain later than it wasn't, and I believe him. I think what he was trying to get at was that musicals (and musical theatre songwriting) in general were changing beyond his generation's style, and that it was a real surprise for him that people still wanted to hear his style of "old-fashioned" writing. In context, it felt like a dig because Sunday In The Park was his obvious contender - but his comment was meant to be more an affirmation than a swipe. Though it's easy to see why we would think otherwise.

And Berlin, and Porter, and Kern...and Loesser, and Styne, and Kander...etc etc...lots of extraordinary talents in the last century. No need to name one above the others, no need for a contest. We're richer for all of them. Sondheim really hasn't written much in this 21st century, aside from the show that eventually became Bounce and now Road Show. His greatest work is indeed all in the 20th century. That's not a dig, just an observation. I do look forward to his new show.

No, but it's reasonable to expect that could happen. But indeed, no news is great news.

I’m not so ready to give Rodgers so much credit for the post-Hammerstein years - yes, some good tunes still, but barely any classics beyond “The Sweetest Sounds.” And he never really found suitable writing partners after Hammerstein, including himself (Rodgers was not a skilled lyricist lol). But I will give him credit for his overall longevity in the biz. And, his collaboration with Sondheim, Do I Hear A Waltz - again, full of decent tunes and some great lyrics, but an artistic disaster. (Sondheim likes to refer to it as a “why” musical - that is, what is it that called out for this property to be musicalized?)

Comments like this are really not necessary.

I just noticed that the reviews for Mon 3/26 have been posted. With no further comments from Daddy. To be honest, I had expected something else - more like a warning that our days here are coming to an end and he's decided to pull the site, or something along those lines. Now, that may still happen (ugh), but the fact that it hasn't happened yet, in the wake of all the panic this weekend, is a good and welcome sign. Let us pray that things just continue here as always. At the same time, I also hope that somehow there might be a contingency plan if this site needs to go. Yes, the reviews are a valuable thing, but I would miss this forum much much more. I'm wondering if the forum could exist by itself, as the reviews may certainly need to go. I hate, HATE all this speculation. But I know I'm far from the only one who is suddenly very worried. It's the fear of the unknown that's really affecting me. (Even though as I've already posted, I tend to think that these laws may be harsher for the hetero community than for us.) What sites will be blocked or closed? Will there be ways to fight the law even as trump will probably sign it very soon? How will this affect the internet in general in addition to the general sexual freedom we've come to expect? None of us really know any of the answers, and that's what's scary. Again, I want to say how much I will miss the info, the banter, and the camaraderie (though maybe not the trolls, lol) out here if all of a sudden we're blown to bits (or bytes, as it were). I do hope that if we have to go, we'll be able to say a reasonable farewell, instead of facing a sudden unexpected pull of the plug. But again, I'm speculating. Ugh. So, let's be extra thankful the the reviews of the day are up. It affirms that we can still be here.

I just tried it - it's still there. And I found it on google as well. Maybe your browser is having issues? (I'm on chrome if it matters.) Don't panic, lol.

Agreed. I think the huge unknown at this point is what the ISP's will do. If they deem it prudent to block a bunch of sites, that's that. What exactly will their criteria be? I tend to agree with those who feel that the trafficking issues they're after are ultimately more in the hetero world - I don't think that there's necessarily a "gay agenda" here, and we may be lucky enough to find that they'll leave the gay sites alone for the most part. Don't forget that sites like Craigslist (and Backpage before it) cater to all sexuality - this wasn't a specifically gay-related shutdown. So it may indeed be that the only things that will affect us will be the sites that cater to all sexualities. At least I have my fingers crossed for that.

It's ironic, somehow, that (Sir) Andrew Lloyd Webber shares the same birthday. (He just turned 70.) It's also Leonard "Chico" Marx's birthday. (He's selling tootsy-fruitsy ice-a cream up in heaven, no doubt.) The first Sondheim show I got to know well (aside from West Side Story) was Company. I think the first one I saw was Sweeney Todd. Sondheim is currently working on a new musical, which I hope we get to see. (I'm saying that not just because of his age, but also because his last show took a number of years to get written and produced - and even then it was in 2 final stages - first as Bounce, then reworked as Road Show.) The yet unnamed show (as far as I know) is a collaboration with playwright David Ives, and is based on 2 films by Luis Bunuel - The Exterminating Angel and The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie. I'm very intrigued to see (and hear) what that will be like. Happy belated birthday, Steve!

I know that Rogers was (and still is) frequently the butt of jokes for his style - even back when I was a kid watching that iconic PBS late afternoon lineup, I knew there was a general sense that Rogers was "un-hip" and potentially even a little creepy, lol. But the fact is, his style really worked, and his care for children, and for all of us, really shone through. Sure, we can poke gentle fun at him and the show, but I also can't deny that it was a crucial part of many of our childhoods. And I thank him for that. And also so much thanks for his musical partner Johnny Costa, who introduced so many of us to piano jazz before we may have even known what it was. Rogers' iconic little songs may have had simple kid-like melodies, but Costa filled them out in wonderfully sophisticated ways - let alone all the wonderful music he played during transitions, etc.

A source familiar with the production (as they might say in a news report lol) has said (to put it nicely) that the cast is largely not happy with the director's work on the show. Sounds like indeed he really was the wrong match in this case.

I had posted this message to another thread, but realized it might be better as a thread of its own -- This was in response to: Can I ask, actually, what other sites guys are using these days (hookup/dating type sites perhaps more than escort sites, though that's ok too)? I'm on Manhunt and Silverdaddies, though both feel rather limited to me in terms of available guys/responses etc. I'm depressed about Craigslist being gone, because I really liked how that particular personal ad message system worked, and I don't know offhand of other sites that work in a similar way. For the last several years, I've found that CL was may main source for hookups, and RM my main source for hiring. CL personals shutting down is a shock in general, but it's also weird for me just because I got so used to it and kinda miss it, lol. I'm not on Adam4Adam or some of the other app-related sites (Grindr, Scruff, etc) - are those any better than the others? Are there any other decent "message board" formatted sites like Cragislist was? Not to say, of course, that none of us can predict yet what will get shut down or blocked...I'm hoping that the majority of the "dating" sites won't be affected, but who knows? Funny - I used to hookup using the old phone lines before I moved to the internet - I know there are still some phone lines around - I wonder if some of us will find ourselves going back to those? It's very strange to feel that all of a sudden this whole internet hookup world may disappear. I can't believe it ALL will, but it's the fear of the unknown that's hitting me right now.

To me, the Passions are quasi-operas as well. Not that he intended them to be, but they really show him to be a master dramatist in many ways.

I've been hearing this comment a lot - and that doesn't bode well. For all of Billy's faults, we have to find some connection to him, otherwise the whole last half of Act II (the Heaven scene onward) has no reason for being. But it is indeed an amazing score. I conducted a production of this a few years ago, and what a kick that was, lol. And, with all the great and famous music in the score, some of my favorite moments are ones most people don't know well - for instance, the "other" tune that Billy sings in the "Bench Scene" (i.e. "If I Loved You") - beginning with the lyric "You can't hear a sound / not the turn of a leaf..." (6;35 in the video below) or, the women's almost chorale-like intro to the "Mr. Snow reprise" or the amazing romantic sweep of the pas de deux music, where young Louise is seduced by a carnival boy. (at 8:45 below) Great stuff, all of it.

Yes. I'm convinced that Marni could do anything - and still can. (I got to accompany a masterclass she did, about a decade ago. A charming lady. At the time she was in town with a national tour of My Fair Lady, playing Mrs. Higgins. Very fun. I wasn't fond of much of the production, but she was great!)

I don't disagree on her performance - but I feel like that score didn't really give her a true breakout number (even "The I Love You Song" really ultimately belongs to Celia Keenan-Bolger's Olive). But "Jenny's Blues" really gave her some "somethin' somethin'" to shine with, lol.

I'm not sure it's really a "new" normal - jukebox shows have been around for a while now, and haven't ever truly dominated the Broadway scene, IMO. And most of them tend to disappear pretty quickly - only a few like Mamma Mia and Jersey Boys (and the more recent Beautiful) have really stood the test of time. And I just read that Smokey Joe's Cafe, one of the originals in the genre, and one of the most successful, is coming back this summer in an off-Broadway venue. But for every well-crafted show like Jersey Boys, which IMO deserves its long run, there's a Margaritaville which surely won't be around very long, and most probably won't get much attention at the Tonys. Sure, they'll try to tour it...and then it will just sail away into oblivion... Lisa Howard also got a wonderful lucky break in a show that most people dismissed outright - I'd say the one big song that really got noticed in It Shoulda Been You was her showstopping "Jenny's Blues." I never saw the show, but just in hearing the score, I do tend to think the show shoulda been received much better than it was. Fun stuff.

I was so sad to hear the news - but then again, it's beyond remarkable that he was able to live for so many years, especially given that when he was first diagnosed with ALS at the age of 21, he was given a 2-year life expectancy. So his life deserves a real celebration. And what he was able to accomplish over all that time is equally extraordinary. A true visionary, a true genius, and an inspiration to anyone battling a life-long disease. In an era where our government would like to throw so much scientific discovery out the window for good, we must keep Hawking's legacy and tenacity alive.

It seems that he's good buddies with "Rocky Rayburn" ( https://rentmen.eu/Rockyrayburn ) - who just renamed himself from being "Mitch Banks" a day or two ago. Notice that Rocky (formerly Mitch) and Ayden share the exact same star tattoo in the same place. Not saying that's a red flag, but it is interesting.

I don't know if this matters or not, but the article dates back to 9/1/16.

Perfectly said.

I saw a small production once, where during Isabella's big rally aria in Act II, it was sung to the (very) small male chorus of Algerians (not the Italians as written) - the action during the aria was having Taddeo (I think) shave off their beards so they would look more "Italian." Not only was this a huge distraction during the aria, but it occurred to me that it was also offensive on several levels. It surely was not meant to be seen that way, but it might have been better to find another solution. I agree with the general premise that operas such as L'Italiana and Abduction can now seem very anti-Muslim. But I'm not sure what changes would need to be made to make them more acceptable. Clearly it sounds like that solution to amending the Abduction libretto was a huge mistake. I suppose that maybe the ethnic elements could somehow be taken out entirely, and both operas could be more about a battle of the sexes than a battle of cultures...but I dunno. However, I heard that somewhere in the last couple of years there was a production of the Mozart done as if a young girl's fantasy, starting with a collection of dolls and toys in her bedroom. Even I, in reading that, had to wonder what the point would be of a little girl fantasizing about a harem...