Larstrup

You'll need to be patient through the first few episodes. There's much history and character development going on plus background US/Mexico government involvement which sets the table. Pablo Escobar's absence is noticeably felt as well. But stick with it.

I wipe backward with my toilet paper on the roll over the top.

I agree with your disagreement of my overarching suggestion. I guess we're all just grasping for solutions here to fix a problem which was suppressed ignored for too long and then was presented to us as if we were the last cigarette smoked before the Surgeon General finally put warnings on the side of the packs of Marlboro's.

I agree with your disagreement of my overarching suggestion. I guess we're all just grasping for solutions here to fix a problem which was suppressed ignored for too long and then was presented to us as if we were the last cigarette smoked before the Surgeon General finally put warnings on the side of the packs of Marlboro's.

A Modest Proposal.....
 
The events which led to the shutdown of the politics forum were almost entirely the result of the compulsive and incessant posting behavior of one member and the reactions to it by others, which included a combination of attempts at friendly persuasion, harsh criticism which sometimes crossed over into personal attacks, ignoring said member, or departing the forums altogether. None of these responses had any effect whatsoever on this person. As others have pointed out, the problem was not confined to the politics forum, but extended to every forum where this member participated.
 
In the time I have been posting here there have been a number of instances of behavior which resulted in timeouts but none rose to the level of the current crisis. We all can probably think of a few posters with whom we sharply disagree and whose behavior we find to be annoying. I think the difference this time was the sheer volume of posts, mostly trivial, diversionary, and/or attention-seeking, which this member made.
 
My suggestion is to place a limit on the number of posts each member can make each day. I can tolerate annoying and/or disagreeable posts from anyone as long as they do not take over the entire forum. If there were a limit of, say 25 posts per member per day, that would force each of us to more carefully consider if what we are about to post contributes any real value or is just diversionary or repetitive. Whenever any discussion becomes dominated by one or a small group of posters it discourages others from participating and often devolves into behavior which devalues the forum for everyone.

It wasn't the greatest idea, that's for sure! It started from the premises that (a) we should let folks know when they were being disruptive and (b) site managers and moderators do not want to waste their time running a daycare.
 
 
I learned later that the coding to make the process automated would itself take a lot of work so, in a subsequent post, I backed off the automation idea and kept just the idea of a counter that tallied posts that folks considered disruptive. The final decision on what to do as numbers accumulated would be left up to management.
 
Over the years, I've seen two kinds of disruptive posters: those who have no clue they are ruining the Forum for others, and those who knowingly come here to do exactly that. Personally, I like the idea of letting the first group know how others are perceiving their posts and giving them a chance to learn some new behaviors. That process isn't much different from the socialization skills most of us learn on the playground, and others learn later in life.
 
The second group who is here to willfully engage in pathologic behaviors which drive others away, and create problems for moderators, would not change and would disappear over time. Just as they should. I'm not talking about those who hold "unpopular views" but rather those who are shit-disturbers: disruptors, if you like. I think we all know the difference and my hope is for a system that collects that knowledge and uses it to make the Forum better for those who remain.
 
Over the past few days, others have added better ideas. No doubt that process will continue. It's most heartening to me to hear @Guy Fawkes, @deej, and @Cooper express their desire to see the Politics Forum continue and their willingness to make it happen. But they need our help and it's good to see so many step forward to offer it.
 

OK...lol I "liked" your post, but I disagree with your assessment of the use of the "like" button.
I think the "like" button is a valuable tool. All of us use it for different reasons. For myself, I will like a post for the obvious reasons. Yes, sometimes it is to validate and be on record for agreeing with a posters point of view, but more often than not, the like is for different reasons. There are conservative members who I might disagree with, but I will like their post as an acknowledgement that they have presented a good point of view. I will also like a post to express appreciation for a well thought out argument or research. I will do that with @stevenkesslar sometimes or with @Lookin, or @quoththeraven because very often the research or information that goes into their post is worth noting. And lastly, sometimes I will like multiple posts in the middle of a debate in the political forum. If a poster or posters are making a case in the middle of a heated debate in the political forum, better than I am able to do, then I will like a post instead of jumping into the fray. And sometimes I just enjoy watching the debate. It's not necessary to participate in every thread. I don't see the point of repeating the thoughts of someone that I already completely agree with and who is presenting the point better than I could. So my vote would be to keep the like button. AND... for the love of God, how do you not have a like button in the gallery?
 
 
I have made friends here, good friends, some will be life-long. Some, because of logistics, will be good friends in this cyber community on the forum. So I hope the political forum returns, and I hope that this was a good learning experience for everyone, and I hope that the members who chose to leave, will re-think that decision and come back. I have learned more on this forum than I could have almost anywhere else.

I think the whole concept of validating posts, and more importantly the people behind those posts thru clicking button likes, button dislikes, button disruptive, etc., discourage further dialogue between us. If you can just like a post, but don’t have to respond as to why you like that post, you might be stroking someone’s ego but you’re certainly not furthering discussion. If we reduce everyone to a push of a button as to how we feel, however that might be, we’re cheating ourselves of further understanding ourselves and others positions simply because we have buttons to push instead of taking the time to explain to the poster why.
 
At the end of the day, living in a digital world as opposed to the physical world will always lessen our relations and more likely prevent some from actually being who they really are simply due to the limited ability to communicate outside of face to face dialogue.
 
I’m rambling. But I’ll say it again. Politics are not our problem here. No matter what our personal party or political association. It’s our inability to talk to to one another minus the anger and angst which we live with day to day because of what’s happening in our national politics and the disgrace of which they have become.
 
Let’s forget the like buttons which creates unintended division and try just talking more to each other. I think that’s a good start.
 
Please like my post however.
 
It will validate me that I might have made some sense here.

The old adage, "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't" best describes how I feel about moderating this site. We can't please all but like you, I, too, want to see the PR&W Forum up and running so that all members feel comfortable in posting their positions in a civil way regardless of their political persuasion.
 
The PR&W Forum is a challenge to moderate. The majority of reports we receive deal with personal attacks. The rules are very clear about the actions moderators can take on this issue. They read: "Attacks against members will only be acted upon at the request of the member being attacked. If you submit a report because you see a violation of that rule keep in mind that the report must be submitted by the "member being attacked". Most members do not submit reports/alerts making it appear that the moderators aren't taking action or following the rules. Not so! But maybe it's time for us to revisit that rule if it helps getting the Forum back up and running.
 
The Moderators do not discuss on the Message Board alerts received or actions taken. We also do not mention the names of members who are banned or timed out. We respect your privacy. If you want to crack down on personal attacks help us out and submit those reports.
 
Are new Guidelines and new rules necessary to get this Forum back? Or are the current Terms and Rules sufficient? Perhaps following them is the best answer.
 
Cooper

I think the whole concept of validating posts, and more importantly the people behind those posts thru clicking button likes, button dislikes, button disruptive, etc., discourage further dialogue between us. If you can just like a post, but don’t have to respond as to why you like that post, you might be stroking someone’s ego but you’re certainly not furthering discussion. If we reduce everyone to a push of a button as to how we feel, however that might be, we’re cheating ourselves of further understanding ourselves and others positions simply because we have buttons to push instead of taking the time to explain to the poster why.
 
At the end of the day, living in a digital world as opposed to the physical world will always lessen our relations and more likely prevent some from actually being who they really are simply due to the limited ability to communicate outside of face to face dialogue.
 
I’m rambling. But I’ll say it again. Politics are not our problem here. No matter what our personal party or political association. It’s our inability to talk to to one another minus the anger and angst which we live with day to day because of what’s happening in our national politics and the disgrace of which they have become.
 
Let’s forget the like buttons which creates unintended division and try just talking more to each other. I think that’s a good start.
 
Please like my post however.
 
It will validate me that I might have made some sense here.

I think the whole concept of validating posts, and more importantly the people behind those posts thru clicking button likes, button dislikes, button disruptive, etc., discourage further dialogue between us. If you can just like a post, but don’t have to respond as to why you like that post, you might be stroking someone’s ego but you’re certainly not furthering discussion. If we reduce everyone to a push of a button as to how we feel, however that might be, we’re cheating ourselves of further understanding ourselves and others positions simply because we have buttons to push instead of taking the time to explain to the poster why.
 
At the end of the day, living in a digital world as opposed to the physical world will always lessen our relations and more likely prevent some from actually being who they really are simply due to the limited ability to communicate outside of face to face dialogue.
 
I’m rambling. But I’ll say it again. Politics are not our problem here. No matter what our personal party or political association. It’s our inability to talk to to one another minus the anger and angst which we live with day to day because of what’s happening in our national politics and the disgrace of which they have become.
 
Let’s forget the like buttons which creates unintended division and try just talking more to each other. I think that’s a good start.
 
Please like my post however.
 
It will validate me that I might have made some sense here.

I think the whole concept of validating posts, and more importantly the people behind those posts thru clicking button likes, button dislikes, button disruptive, etc., discourage further dialogue between us. If you can just like a post, but don’t have to respond as to why you like that post, you might be stroking someone’s ego but you’re certainly not furthering discussion. If we reduce everyone to a push of a button as to how we feel, however that might be, we’re cheating ourselves of further understanding ourselves and others positions simply because we have buttons to push instead of taking the time to explain to the poster why.
 
At the end of the day, living in a digital world as opposed to the physical world will always lessen our relations and more likely prevent some from actually being who they really are simply due to the limited ability to communicate outside of face to face dialogue.
 
I’m rambling. But I’ll say it again. Politics are not our problem here. No matter what our personal party or political association. It’s our inability to talk to to one another minus the anger and angst which we live with day to day because of what’s happening in our national politics and the disgrace of which they have become.
 
Let’s forget the like buttons which creates unintended division and try just talking more to each other. I think that’s a good start.
 
Please like my post however.
 
It will validate me that I might have made some sense here.

I think the whole concept of validating posts, and more importantly the people behind those posts thru clicking button likes, button dislikes, button disruptive, etc., discourage further dialogue between us. If you can just like a post, but don’t have to respond as to why you like that post, you might be stroking someone’s ego but you’re certainly not furthering discussion. If we reduce everyone to a push of a button as to how we feel, however that might be, we’re cheating ourselves of further understanding ourselves and others positions simply because we have buttons to push instead of taking the time to explain to the poster why.
 
At the end of the day, living in a digital world as opposed to the physical world will always lessen our relations and more likely prevent some from actually being who they really are simply due to the limited ability to communicate outside of face to face dialogue.
 
I’m rambling. But I’ll say it again. Politics are not our problem here. No matter what our personal party or political association. It’s our inability to talk to to one another minus the anger and angst which we live with day to day because of what’s happening in our national politics and the disgrace of which they have become.
 
Let’s forget the like buttons which creates unintended division and try just talking more to each other. I think that’s a good start.
 
Please like my post however.
 
It will validate me that I might have made some sense here.

Damn autocorrect on my iPhone...

I prefer mine scalloped. But hey, they’re just potatoes! Carrot cake frightens me.

Scalloped potatoes
 
 

 
Homemade carrot cake
 

I love Lookin's optimism and I liked his idea, but I'm more skeptical, and I see the problem a little more simply. I don't think the problem was about being conservative or liberal, or our tolerance for either, but it was about trolling. Two members clearly came on to troll the board. I don't give two fucks about Avalon's political views, he's entitled to them and entitled to express them. I never put him on ignore, but I did choose not to respond to him. If others who were so bothered by his seemingly endless threads and apparent racist views, then they should have stopped posting on every single thread that he started. If you can't exhibit some self control, and your not aware enough to realize that your being trolled, and that you are not going to change the views of posters like Avalon, then don't be surprised when your participation encourages more trolling behavior, and certainly don't complain about their participation here.
 
I think Admin made this about liberal and conservative, but I saw it as someone who logged on with the sole purpose to disrupt, and I think admin was divisive, intolerant of posters who were complaining, and took far too long to address the issue. Some posters have left for the other site, which is a joke and seriously not a solution, some posters left permanently, and some have clearly stuck it out, but damage has been done, that is a fact. Perhaps this is merely a bump in the road, certainly admin has had to banish disruptive posters before, so time will tell, and maybe thoughtful and prolific posters like Moondance will reconsider their decision to leave.
 
My Two Cents...

That's certainly my take on it. But I wasn't born being civil. It took many years of socialization to learn that there were some things I could do that would get me included in the groups I wanted to belong to, and some things that would get me excluded. I was lucky to have parents and other mentors in my life who helped me learn those lessons.
 
My suggestion wasn't meant to cure all of society's ills, or to hasten Armageddon, but rather to put a form of modest rewards and penalties in place to help those few adult posters who have not yet learned what it means to be part of a healthy social group. And for those very few who are unable or unwilling to learn, we would be able to carry on without their disruptive participation and without the need for time-consuming and heavy-handed moderation.
 
The "ignore" button, while useful for some, doesn't really encourage a disruptive poster to modify his behavior. While being sidelined for a period of time just might. And it puts the responsibility for change squarely on the shoulders of those who need to change, and not on the shoulders of those who wish they would.
 
I'm not here to beat a dead horse. I've participated in many groups over the years and one thing that's always proved useful for me is to offer a solution or two, sit back while others find all the things that are wrong with it, and eventually see suggestions and improvements emerge.
 
In his original post, @Guy Fawkes challenged us to find a solution to a problem that has troubled him and many others for years. Maybe we can find such a solution, and maybe we can't. But I'm planning to stick it out through the process of finding all the things that are impossible and hope that my fellow posters and I can get to some things that are possible.
 
I have little doubt that better ideas will soon begin to flow.
 

You're more than welcome! I like this site, and appreciate all the work that you and the moderators do. If I can't help financially, hopefully I can contribute in other ways.
 
If the coding for the "automated bans" is onerous, perhaps just a "disruptive post" button and counter - similar to the "like" system and perhaps copying that existing code - would work just as well. As long as posters know when they're being disruptive, and as long as management knows who's cocking up the site - so to speak - most of the benefits would still be there. You could look at the counter and decide who to boot, and when.
 
I like the idea of rating posts, rather than posters. My hope is that, by letting posters know when they're being a pain in the ass, they'll be able to clean up their act. On the other hand, if their intention really is to disrupt the site, then it's better that they disappear instead of sending everyone else to the hills.
 
Thanks again for all your efforts to keep such a valuable Forum going! http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.png

Usually when I check in on this site in the morning, there are at least five pages of new posts to scroll through. Today there are only two pages. That was enlightening.

I associate myself with these very important goals and even more importantly being a safe haven from abuse. I have always supported these values and you have my unwavering support in doing so with these announced actions.

I associate myself with these very important goals and even more importantly being a safe haven from abuse. I have always supported these values and you have my unwavering support in doing so with these announced actions.

Some of those people are on time-out until the start of the year. A few have been timed-out permanently.
 
Management has a policy of diversity and being a safe haven from abuse. That policy has been violated and this will not be allowed to continue.
 
We either set some ground rules or we no longer will have that forum. So far little work has happened to discuss the ground rules that are needed. So I agree that better participants are needed right now.
 

No Thanksgiving thread is complete until you have felt the fear of the turkey. Whether it’s in preparing it or trying to run from it. So without further ado, I present my annual “oh my God it’s a turkey” Thanksgiving video.
 

 
She was later pecked to death after her battery wouldn’t start and tried making a run for it.
 
Happy Thanksgiving!

@oldNbusted
 
https://www.dillards.com/p/roundtree--yorke-long-sleeve-seamless-turtleneck/508386685?googleShop=Y&cm_mmc=GooglePLAs-_-Exclusive+-+Roundtree+and+Yorke+-+Shopping-_-g-_-null&gclid=CjwKCAiAlb_fBRBHEiwAzMeEduo89BMxmOzwHw8IyP5Fk6X6ILvQ0rgj_9W2at6hy-qbzn-wBcoGNhoCzXQQAvD_BwE