Mocha

I can’t see Mocha’s comments because I am ignoring him, but just reading your side of the conversation, I am guessing you need to do just like like me and press the ignore button on his profile.

I would have loved if he had did that before he came at me all wrong awhile back. I didn't even know who his scrony butt was at the time.

Or maybe they are just shy, felt horny and sent emails to a few people and caught the first one that responded. You can respond to emails in your phone.

Yeah, but that's games. That's an annoying client who's going to be a pain in the ass down the line, as I often figue out. Even if I were to put myself in the client's shoes, to me that's still an asshole move and most (decent) clients don't do that. I can see contacting a few escorts over a course of a day or 2 IF the original escort did not respond within the 24 hour rule (meaning give them atleast 24 hours to respond to an email...4 hours if it's time sensitive). That's basic business communication principles. You mean to tell me these men twice my age making 3-4-6 times as much money as me don't know any better? Or they just being willfully ignorant? I had better communication from a client who was a 28 year old black dude who works at a grocery store chain than some of these supposed affluent fuckers who don't give a fuck about communication etiquette.

One of the same day emailers earlier this week did say something in his email about being "nervous" in his first reply. Well get yourself off. He's emailing me asking for my availability tonight, but then saying he's nervous. What am I supposed to do, put a bottle in his mouth before he even walks in the door? That's just pussy behavior that I don't have time for. You can be nervous, but that's not a free pass to be an ass. Those nervous types never book anyway. There's a difference between being nervous in person versus nervous over an email that no number was left to contact.

Dealing win some of these men, I feel like working in an elementary school. Now I know the meaning of kid in a candy store.

As a psysician, I can't tell you how many times I have been on call and received messages from patients who forget to leave their call-back numbers and then who chastise me in the office the next day for not calling back. I tell them I'm not a psychic who can pull their phone number out of thin air and then I play them their message. I include pharmacy numbers as well.

People sometimes become stupid or tongue-tied when they have to leave certain info and they don't leave it.

That's a good point you bought up. And that makes me realize it's an easy issue that Rentmen can fix.

Even though men4rent is not hot, they had it right when they had 3 boxes...to include name, email and a phone number along with a message body. The serious clients would include their number, while the assholes would just leave it blank. On rentmen, people just send emails like they're just messaging someone on Adam4adam.

Even though one can check emails on the phone, the thing with rentmen email is you get an email each time someone checks out your private pictures (unless you can remove that alert as well, ill check). Also, it's not the same as getting a text message. Like I said, I've responded to emails within 20 minutes and still don't hear back. One guy did that 2 months ago, I was even in the most convenient hotel downtown as he always asks for last minute incalls. And then he hit me up on Sunday like it never happened. I wasn't as nice about it this week...but atleast he knows not to play with me like that again.

I read one escorts ad in LA and he states he only takes responses by text. I used to not like text, but I'm finding it easier than emails and honestly thinking of following suit with his protocol. I already have my automated response template set up and it's much quicker to do it by text than email.

Mocha

As charming as I find your adorable attempts at putting articulate sentences together ...(and they are adorable) I had to stop reading your comment after the second paragraph. I'm not sure why you think it takes days to get to Miami ...it takes five hours...so...I'll stop there because ....suddenly I'm reminded of a George Carlin quote...he says "never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".

That said, I sincerely hope u have a busy week so you can be happier. Happy Holidays from me...the "sell out" ;-) - Xo

You can't talk about someone's writing, when you can't even read enough to understand what I'm referring to. You posted something, asked for people's experience...and no other escort took the time to reply much, so you should be grateful I'm even giving you the time of day. But being you can't actually answer any of the concerns I addressed, it goes without saying. You've been on the defense this entire thread, even trying to "prove" you're not a dummy.

Even if you did plan this session weeks ahead, asking vaguely about flying someplace with someone you never met, reeks of insecurity.

Young blood, sit down. You don't want to go there with me. You don't even fit well in the suit you're wearing, so don't try to balls up against me.

Mocha, allow me to add something from the client perspective:

 

- if you look at many many escort ads, certainly the lion's share of Backpage and Adam4Adam, they say "same day appointments only" or "don't contact me if you are not ready to play" or something to that effect. I have tried from time to time to make some advanced arrangements with those guys, and i get shot down. So us consumers can find it difficult to know which way to go.

 

- If a sudden window opens in my schedule (my plans fall through and suddenly I am free tonight and feeling horny) would you rather that I not contact you, even when your rentmen ad says "available now"? Should I assume that "available now" does not mean that you are available now?

 

- sometimes my plans change in the other direction - I thought I would be free, or I didn't know I would catch a cold or that a blizzard would strike. I have been occasionally treated rudely by guys I have cancelled on (giving as much notice as possible) because of changing circumstances. It's like the advanced plan commits me by contract.

 

- As to why we use email rather than phone: I may be showing my age, but to me email is somehow less intrusive and interrupting than a phone call. If you are, indeed, on line and "available now" it is reasonable to assume that you will read your email. If you are in the middle of a meal or a workout or an appointment, i assume you won't read your email (and therefore are unlikely to be "available now.")

 

None of that excuses people who just stop communicating. But I hope the above offers some perspective you didn't have.

Good response. But I've heard that one before...but what other people say in their ads is negligible to me. No where do I suggest same day appointments only.

I don't mind same day appointments. Bring em. That's not the issue. The issue is emailing for a same day appointment for within the same time of day, when that's the most inefficient way of contact. Then don't leave a number. And then when I respond, they don't even reply back. Now whether its Rentmen email server or not is irreverent.

But, some of it is just how they roll in certain markets. People just do stuff intentionally to miss the session. They don't really want to meet, so they do something very passive Aggressive like send an email on a Saturday...hoping they'll catch your response without ever actually giving one.

Hi Mocha,

You didn't call me a "sell out" in this post and you were only slightly patronizing, you must be in a good mood this week.

In any event, I went and it was great. ......Mmmm I'm skeptical by nature but He ended up being the real deal which I knew when I got the ticket and he was a really nice guy!!! Thanks for the concern but as I mentioned I have great instincts that always serve me well which is why I went and I'll go again if invited. To address your note, I don't know why guys hire companions from from clear across the country ...but if I had to make an educated guess I would say "it's because they can" or "because they want to" ...but I suppose you'd have to ask them for more details on that. This guy was the second person to contact me from out of state..but the other was in Arizona which is right next door to CA. I stayed with that guy for a few days and it was great and I knew it would be great because...instincts!! Florida was unique for me because it was literally across the country. Your comment makes it sound like it's unorthodox but a number of other companions here on this forum besides me have posted their similar experiences. @jawjatech mentioned on the thread that he as a client has flown guys in a number of times and all were great trips....Soooo it may not occur regularly but it's definitely not that unusual apparently. Evidence of that is that other companions have done this quite a bit and I've now done it twice and I've only been a companion for less than a year...and not even consistently because I do other things and have another job.

 

 

By the way, Didnt you make a really long announcement that u weren't participating on this forum anymore? I'm just curious, what pray tell happened to that?

I did make that announcement, but I didn't say when I would be doing it. And just because I'm not participating doesn't mean I won't pop up once in awhile and give my .02. See, it's all in the interpretation. Some things are allegories to a bigger picture.

As far as everything else, well personally I cant say I believe your story. You posted about someone asking to fly you to Miami on Wednesday, and by Monday you're already back? Either the timeline is off and this was planned awhile ago, or this is something unrelated to escorting that you decided to do. Or you're staying for a few days at a rate discounted to a degree to where it's attractive enough to do.

Now, as far as you name dropping and referring to people who do these things...Save it, you don't have to. I get sent out to meet people and have half my rate paid upfront all the time. But I don't have to ask people how did it go because I've either already met them or know the drill.

Now, you can tout how great and how nice he was (again, I don't believe it's something that actually took place but hey it's the internet)...but I've heard stories of guys getting fisted against their will, doped (like the one kid who traveled to West Hollywood and was killed on that overdose), put into odd situations or having most of their fee shorted. Some right here on the forum. Not saying it happens all the time or every time, but if you have to ask people how it went for them, clearly you had to have had some reservations of your own.

Sometimes guys like to go for the nieve, inexperienced types from far away. You probably fit the bill. How much did he pay you for those "few days?"

An inquiring mind here. I'm asking those of you that do not assess cancellation charges. If a new client has cancelled on 2 separate occasions, what do you do? Are they not to see you in the future? Is a deposit now required? Is each occurrence situational? I'm in the midst of changing some cancellation policies, and would love some guidance.

In 2017, 1 occasion is grounds for dismissal with a newbie. 1. Not 2. One. I don't play that. Someone did that last week. Booked, cancelled a few minutes before...said tomorrow, then said they couldn't make it. No loss as I was already with a client. But regardless, that's someone who is now aware upfront payment required. And I'm not waiting on it.

I know on a prior thread you mentioned not doing a cancellation fee?

Even if it's not a new client and seen him 3 time, still do the cancellation policy. Some people start off good, and then become unreliable later.

These guys can't be given free passes. I was reading elsewhere how the straight guys will book 2 or more females, and then cancel on 1 once the other one shows up and is kosher. Some of these things you'll only find out working side by side with another escort of your caliber.

I'm like okay, you can play the game...but it's going to be at their expense. I can't say that happens everytime, but every cancel must be treated the same.

And now, there's a new wave of cancellation tactic that's going around: these guys bookmark days when your coming to town. They say they want to see you and will check back. But then, they contact last minute..and if you say you're not available until a certain time, they say it's too late...but Monday or Tuesday may work. Monday or Tuesday comes around and they do the same fucking shit or say they aren't available after all.

They know they need to plan stuff in advance or atleast earlier in the day, and still be trying to do last minute stuff. There's already 2 regulars who do this kind of thing and I'm not fucking with them anymore because everytime it comes to scheduling whether I meet them or not, they make it this fiasco to set things up. Its almost like they are passive aggressively insinuating a lack of concern for their word.

I said I wouldn't post, but some of these things are just too humorous to not talk about

Why do people send emails on rentmen asking for same day appointment, often within the next hour or so, knowing I'm offline and unlikely I'll get to it within the timeframe?

Why do they send emails saying they're looking to meet soon, yet not leave their phone number or any pertinent info to contact them back, other than email?

Why do they then take forever (or not answer back at all) to reply to the email I send (often within the same time of day)

Why do they even think that's a efficient way of making a date request. Do they email their neighbor and ask if they'd like to come over for dinner?

Why do they then contact weeks later, send the same email last minute and then pretend like they never made an appointment previously....yet the email is pretty clear it was a request for one.

Why are some these from once met regulars, who know better...yet they say, "I know it's last minute..." Yes it is last minute and not a very productive way of making plans with someone.

Fortunently, it seems like rentmen has now a feature to decline receiving emails from unregistered users. Why not, I'll use it.

I'm on the @FTM Zachary Prince train all the way to Minneapolis! You reinforced my decision to do cancellation fees, and also gave me additional strategies to use towards it.

End of 2017 and into 2018, it's going to be STRICTLY cancellation fees enforced, zero tolerance for Inconsideration. I used to just be okay doing deposits, but with the level of things, a cancellation fee policy is going to be necessary.

Mocha, I found this an interesting observation. Can you say a little more about the apps? I'm assuming you mean things like Grindr. Do you think clients are hooking up through the apps instead of hiring?

 

You might have discussed this elsewhere on the forum but I haven't heard an escort make that connection before.

I'll add this quote to the mix:

I had one no-show in 15 years, but several no-show/no further contact-types in the past three years. It's one reason I feel some of our hobby has taken on the quirks and ickiness of grindr.

So it's not just the apps, it's the fact of people not following thru in general. Having been in this long enough, I know it's more of a cause and effect thing.

However, I do personally know clients who have converted to only meeting guys on apps and don't hire anymore, or use apps and still hire, or even met clients thru the apps. One client is so bold...he used an app during the appointment (in between free time during a weekend session) It's like reading the newspaper. I'm like dayum, I feel special. Because he coulda got it for free, but he chose to pay me.

These apps are prudes to not allow people to advertise and pay them. So much potential in these apps. I occasionally still use them, but getting banned is annoying and feels like slut shaming.

At the same time, these apps aren't necessarily making it easier for average dudes to find Tyson beckford look alikes to fuck. The apps are just a temporary fad that's hamstrung the business a little. Fact of the matter is, people still gonna wanna pay for model material.

I was ready to reply even before reading your comment! SLC is a ghost town for clients! I have my travel down pretty solid to where I'm home for a 2-3 week stretch, then I'm traveling again. I suppose your odds are about 60-75% that I'll be in my home town, and schedules match.

 

In response to OP, the market in my city is very thin. I create more opportunity for myself in my travels. Ask @tristanbaldwin I'm pretty sure he lives in his home 30% of the time. He's a busy man indeed!

Like I said...I'll still be lurking in the shadows so don't let my reply fluster any of you. But, I'm glad you were able to answer a question I've been wondering for awhile.

I used to go to salt lake city often before your "time" so to speak. I say, 2011-2015ish.

The first time I traveled there, I was busy daily. Men4rent was king. There was no shortage of clients. It was Usually a weekday town, not much action on weekends. However, one of my clients was there for business that weekend and I met a bartender at the Peery hotel downtown, went to antelope island. He was going to hire me for a second overnight, but thinking I was in love...I headed back to Denver to meet a friend that night. I'll never turn down 2 overnights in 1 weekend again.

I'll say as of about end of 2015, salt lake city escort scene died. Twice. One after the second election in 2012. And again right before the rentboy collapse.

I've tried occasionally to plan trips there, but haven't been since last November. And that was just 2 days versus when I used to stay for a week. I think the apps and possible higher COL has put the lid on the SLC escort scene. Also noticing much more guys with ads there now than it used to be. There used to only be 5 of us at the most. And non of them were black. So that was an easy swoop for me.

Salt lake city is an example of a changed escort market thanks to the apps. Same thing with Denver. And Nashville. And Minneapolis. However...sometimes I find certain cities occasionally rebound for a short time, if there hasn't been too much traffic coming thru. Finding out when tends to be a combination of luck and good timing.

I'm no dummy. Its a roundtrip...I thought that went without saying..... did I really need to specify that?... I do have enough business sense & common sense to not pay for such a trip............In any event, Im looking forward to it.

You may have business sense and common sense, but street smarts is what you need in Miami. And flying out to spend "a few days" with someone you never met in a city 3,000 miles away sounds crazy as hell to me. Did we not learn anything from the movie "get out?"

Jokes aside, To me it just seems strange that someone would fly an escort they never met from LA to Miami especially considering the abundance in both places. Unless you're more popular than it appears, it would seem that he would have to bypass all the escorts in Miami and the rest of Florida and even Atlanta...and then sift thru hundreds of escorts in L.A. to find you.

I've traveled/travel cross country to meet clients. Usually they came to my city first, and then later we planned to meet elsewhere. Some have even flew to me. But I wouldn't do it in a way that would put me in a situation to where I never met someone and only way to leave was to wait for "a few days" to catch a flight out in case shit goes not planned for whatever reason.

It’s more a question of ethics. If one would extort a fee for missed appointment by threatening to post name, phone number and/or email on an Internet blacklist, what other unethical things would this person do?

Blacklist is for the serious intentional offenses. You're seeing it from a viewpoint of how can someone do that, over a missed appointment.

I don't suggest that for missed appointments. I suggest a missed/cancelled appointment fee. It's been as low as $50 to as high as $500. That takes care of that.

Blacklist is for the guys who do it over. And over. And over. And over and over and over and over again. And don't pay the cancellation fee. They text incessantly, often distracting me while driving, doing other things, or focusing on scheduling others. Especially when it's someone out of town. One guy in particular has made 3 appointments with me, asks all these questions over a period of days, and then has something come up. It's the ones who book, send their face pictures voluntarily, and then without a trace or reason flake.

First of all, why the duck would someone even do that? Send me a picture of them and then flake. Is t perhaps not who it actually is? That's the type of mother ducker who gets placed on blacklist. I used to like Blacklisted John, but it appears they've fell off. The good thing (for misbehaves) with national blacklist is it's not searchable thru google like BLJ was. I used to google numbers and the guys who were pricks, were invariable reported to BLJ by another escort before.

Are you fucking kidding me dude ???? If you werent lurking around like a paranoid lost puppy, trying and HOPING to see who is talking about you, you wouldnt know about their conversations. Face it, you LOVE and attention, and the Drama, and you aint leaving... So you have alot of damn never calling anyone here an Idiot.... And creating another new name doesnt mean you are gone. Your negative comments and writing style never change, so even Helen Keller would know its YOU......Stop giving yourself so much credit for being the brightest candle in the candelabra.... YOU AINT !

Well bye. Have a nice day.

I am not back but I am right here.

Right here writing long paragraphs and reading everything.

But really I am not back, you see, you can’t see me, so I am not back.

 

Seriously, either leave or stay, but stop treating us like bunch of idiots. It is borderline insulting.

First off, I'm not treating anyone like idiots so stop. Please.

But if you want to act naive and pretend like people aren't discussing me even after I said I'm not participating, well that's a choice to be an idiot. If I said I'm not participating, it's insulting to talk crap knowing I don't want to be involved. That's insulting.

Victor Powers bought me up where it wasn't warranted, which created additional conversation. He's apologized so I'm not berating him, but since I happened to see it, I addressed it. Had he not mentioned me, I'd of never replied to this thread.

All providers can do is our best to avoid cancellations. They'll still happen. They always do. I wrote a list of practices I use. For me, I prebook cities weeks in advance. Maybe it's differing business models in how clients book/cancel on me vs you.

Why do you insist on debasing me by comparing and sizing up your business model versus mine? Im not competing against you. Get that out of your mind for a minute.

It doesn't matter if you book travel cities weeks in advance, I'm sure you still get clients who want to meet the day of. And I'm sure many people get clients who book the day of/before. Why are you talking about someone having a different business model of being booked? Are you suggesting that a client has the courtesy to book you weeks ahead, but not me? Are you suggesting that you're doing it "better" by booking weeks in advance? Because I rarely ever book more than a week or 2 out nowadays simply because most times I find...people (or myself) end up having a change of plans at some point in between and it's much easier for me to book within a week or less.

With all due respect, it was a joke and should be taken as such. I later answered the OP's question truthfully and full heartedly. I enjoy being facetious and thought I'd use you as the butt end of a joke. I apologize if it was in bad taste.

Well thank you. Perhaps I was wrong about your character. I was joking too about the gangbang, but the rest I feel earnestly about. But I didn't find that at all funny. On top of that you said rant. Which means you disregarded what I say as a mere measly rant and that's disrespectful. It was not taken as a joke, and instead it created additional gossip and detracted from the overall thread.

Also, since I'm already here...I might as well show you the courtesy to your response:

Your scenario is a constant headache. To limit those occurrences, I confirm and re confirm:

1. Days prior (If traveling day of arrival in city)

2. Morning of

3. 2 hours prior

 

If they do in fact No Show, I save their number and it's highly unlikely I will ever meet with them. If I give them a 2nd chance, they'll be required to pay for their full session in advance. All of this is under the assumption it is a new client you've never seen.

 

If it's a regular, then that is completely different. Then again, a regular wouldn't stiff you, right? (Pun not intended)

This all sounds like good faith in writing, but let's be real....it's more Complex than that. You're coming from a standpoint as if the client booked days ahead of time. But in reality, these noshows often happen when client contacts the same day. So there's no days prior, morning of and 2 hours prior notice when they contact at 3 pm for a 5 pm and pull some shit like that.

I just don't stand for it. There's been several times in the last months where people have had to send me cancellation fees. Let www.Nationalblacklist.com be your friend. I don't even hesitate to tell them I'm going to place them on there if they act up enough.

Idk what the hell is going on nowadays, but being an escort can feel like being a teacher and dealing with children. And guess what teachers are doing? http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2017/09/29/arizona-teacher-shortage-made-me-break-down-tears/715137001/

I'm not back...but I am keeping an eye out for behind-the-back talkers.

So unless @VictorPowers wants his next porno video to be a 4 on 1 interracial gangbang, he better just gone on about his business and not bring me up where it's not warranted.

Like Chris Brown said: "I'm gonna get on your level since you wanna trip, I'm gonna get a new bigger dick as your punishment..."

Especially After I took the time the other week to respond to his thread. (Which caused conflict with my client) where he couldn't even figure out whether he wanted to do a porn or not. It's like you reach out and extend advice to another escort, and then they come around and mock you.

Just shows what type of character he is. That's why I'm not conversing around here anymore. I can't deal with mischevious, sneaky ass hoes. Then when they know you're not on, they turn around and talk additional shit behind your back.

Insert Mocha rant here

http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/80441-People-Talk-Behind-Your-Back.jpg

This side note probably should have been kept between the two of you.

I liked the pre-edited version...

So now you are bringing into public what we discussed in a private conversation. One where we were brainstorming possible solutions for the problems in your career you were complaining about. But I am not going to share what we discussed in private.

I am not surprised you are losing clients. You just lost one.

#1 I'm not losing clients. Even if I did, that would just give me more time to play with all these other fine guys on my own time.

#2 I'm not discussing private matters, I responded to what you just said publicly here.

#3 This thread is not brainstorming any "problems with my career." I made a separate thread, you could have addressed me over there.

#4 I disagreed (and agreed in the same paragraph) with you respectfully, at least give me the same respect.

#5 You say I'm not keeping a private conversion private but you just came here and publicly announce I lost you

#6 Why is this even an argument? Maybe this should be discussed in private as you wish...

#7 I'm still cool with you...let's keep it that way.

I think the one inferring and assuming too much is you. I never said or implied that doing porn is a necessity. It is not, and I never said otherwise. I am also not pushing anyone to do anything, please stop making absurd generalizations.

 

I was giving specific advice to a particular escort who asked for it. If @VictorPowers had never done porn before, my advice would have been more cautious. But as we know, Victor has already done porn.

 

I wonder who was the evil client who pushed him to do bad things. Poor innocent Victor, who cannot make his own decisions. Bad clients.

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Wee-Bey-Whoa-What.gif

Really? Ok I was really trying to disagree politely...I really wasn't having a go at you. You know I luv you

But, I will clarify. I didn't mean that YOU were pushing him. I was just saying in general, people are saying "go for it, go for it." But, ultimately it's HIM who needs to decide. We don't know him or his family, Salt Lake City is very Mormon. How do we not know if his religious preference or relatives play a part in his decision? He's asking the question so maybe he needs, desires and wants that push from us for whatever reason.

I was not insinuating there being an evil deed being done. BUT, if Victor wanted to make his own decisions, he would have done it already without asking anyone here. I'm not knocking him for doing that.

I've never done porn before, but you have suggested to me in a similar way to do it. And I'm just fucking saying, not everybody wishes to use that as an advertising point. So, per your statement, it may not be THE BEST advertisement for business. It's simply one of many.

http://cdn1.clevver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/tom-felton-booyah.gif

Ditto to @OliverSaks .

Go for it, it is the best advertisement for your escorting.

I've heard this before and just differ a little.

Think of it like a dating profile. What's going to be the best advertisement? A nice smile, sexy body, great personality/wording. Showing the person having sex with someone else is good wank fodder, but it may not be the main determining factor.

I'm not completely negating the value that doing porn can have on advertising or business, but you seem to infer that it's a necessity. It's like saying the best advertisement for a singer/songwriter is to also do film/movies. No, they can do commercials, tour and travel, they can do Twitter, they can make their own amateur videos, etc. It goes back to my other thread, does an escort need to do all these other things to garner respect and recognition from clients? Is not being an escort alone worth anything? There's escorts out there who won't get up on stage and dance and won't perform in porn movies because they don't like that level of exposure.

I know from a client perspective, pushing an escort to do porn can seem like a good deal. But ultimately it's us who has to determine the decision. I've mentioned before, I don't see myself getting into porn. I have much respect for porn stars and what they do, and I believe they create the fantasies that many of our clients come to us for. But, doing porn myself just isn't for me...at this time.