Advice on Lifespring? "Personal growth 'large group awareness training'."

[JamesK840]

A former coworker and friend (who I haven't been in touch with in about a year) called excitedly to tell me about his business success and ask me to participate in a new venture of his. I was interested, but he slipped in something of a quid-pro-quo about an 'effectiveness training' course that he wants all participants in his new company to have. Further, the first project of this company would center around promoting this 'effectiveness training'. At this point I was fairly leery, but he gave me a great example of how it brought him closer to his family.

I worked as much information out of him as I could get, and became further alarmed at the 'hard sell' feeling as he tried to get me to commit to the training. I've convinced him to give me a couple days to work out my schedule. He's trying to get me to enter the 'basic' level of training, he's already finished 'advanced' and is most of the way through 'leadership training'.

Needless to say, as soon as the call ended I was on Google, the firm he's trying to enroll me in seems like an offshoot of Lifespring, which I'd never heard of but was itself something of an offshoot of EST.

With the demise of resources such as CAN this is the best information I've been able to find so far:

http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html

It paints a pretty dim picture. But I want to keep an open mind and I want to be able to help my friend if he needs it.

 

Anybody have any advice or experience that may help me?

[Justice]

I hate to say this, but with friends like this you don't need any enemies. :-(

 

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The "hard sell" approach raises all kinds of red flag, IMHO. I bet that the "it brought me closer to my family" argument came right off a script.

 

Buyer beware!

 

Just my 0.02.

 

Justice

[OneFinger]

If this is even remotely associated with EST then run like hell!

 

I had a friend that got so entangled with that group that he literally spent thousands of dollars on the training seminars. From my observation and perspective they charge you a lot of money to entrap you for an entire weekend of "training". In addition to sleep deprivation, they mind fuck you and invent problems that only they can solve at the next seminar (for more money).

 

I'm not a big fan of awareness groups. I feel most people could benefit more from getting in touch with themselves or with the help of a good therapist. I put Lifespring and EST in the same category as a dangerous religious cult.

 

Do they really have something that your need or want?

[Boston Guy]

Lifespring caused many people major problems. Don't go anywhere near it.

 

BG

[JamesK840]

Advice on helping someone out of Lifespring?

 

The example he gave of it bringing him closer to his family was very specific and I can see how that alone would give my friend a very positive view, I just hope the improvement was genuine and long lasting. I don't really see it as the miracle he does, as just about anything (even just time) was likely to improve that relationship.

 

The workshop does sound interesting on one hand from a sociological perspective and on the other because I often feel emotionally detached. But I can't imagine having read that site I linked that I would loose those viewpoints of the process and as such I figure the sessions would feel like torture. I don't plan to go. But I do plan to do what I can for my friend.

 

Boston Guy or anybody else, do you have any specific insights which may help me to nudge him in a more beneficial direction? I don't expect to 'cure' him, and as I said he may well have gotten positive results out of the first parts of the course... I just want him to take whatever he's gotten out of it and continue his life's work, instead of centering his life around furthering this group for the sake of the people at the top of the pyramid--which would be a great loss.

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: Advice on helping someone out of Lifespring?

 

Brought him "Closer to his Family". There are those of us, who do not want to get "Closer to the Family". Remember "You can choose your Friends, But not your Family" That is not just an IDLE thought to many.. :+ :+ :+

[Paul Revere]

RE: Advice on helping someone out of Lifespring?

 

BG is correct. LifeSpring is a cult-like scam. Stay as far away as possible. If they don't want any money then its OK. But they will want your money up front.

 

P.T. Barnum was right, but I prefer H.L. Mencken: "No one ever went broke under estimating the intelligence of the American public."

[Boston Guy]

RE: Advice on helping someone out of Lifespring?

 

I wish I could offer you hope. The experience I have is with friends who got involved with this insidious group and, to a man, took years to really get over it.

 

I use "insidious" carefully: they convince people that they are doing them good while, in fact, doing emotional damage. I have never been so frustrated with any other group of people in my entire life.

 

Good luck -- for you and your friend.

 

BG

[Guest msclonly]

Just more bad negative and fearful advice! But it is free!

 

This board is full of it!

People giving advice about something they have NO personal experience or knowledge of! And it does take experience to speak wisely about a subject intelligently. And further it takes an education in Behavoral Sciences and working with many people to understand, where they are coming from.

 

EST, as such, has not been around for 30 years.

Lifespring is an offshoot by a person or group, who gained vaulue from it, and have tried to get in on the action as a business. I believe it was meant for gays for the most part, but I do not recall. I would hate to be in roomful of gays during this process, but I can handle it and even help them understand it.

 

I did the original trainings, not Lifespring, several times to LEARN and UNDERSTAND the process taking place in thousands of people. I have a Major in Psychology with much Sociology, Social Psychology, and advanced studies in Psychiatry. These trainings actually started in the 1950´s in a commercial setting for a large company. It is based on some of the most extensive research in Psychology or Human Developement available. Psychologists, Psychiatrists, who took the trainings were far more effective in their therapeutic work with others. But the Psychiatric organizations at the time did not like the competition, so attacked it without really knowing what was happening. I know because I could see it from both sides of the coin.

The people who took it were very successful and better adjusted to all aspects of their life. They just were better human beings.

 

Most people can not explain to a recruite, what it is and how it works. They just feel better about themselves and life works better for them with more success. They might also be too enthusiastic in talking to you,until it starts to fit them better with time, like a glove should.

 

I have have been studying the results in people for over 30 years, and have seen very few failures, so to speak. I have seen some people revert back to their old bad habits, when their friends or family don´t like losing control of them. You can not read about it in a book or HOW to do book on your own. It takes an experience with others to make changes in your life. You will also experience the changes that take place for the other participants.

Notice how terrified and negative many of the above posts are above, and they have not been there to see, what it is to be so fearful of.

 

If you want to get results in your life and make changes, then look for the FORUM by Landmark Eductional Systems. Don´t expect good advice from people who have not dealt with their own problems and FEARS.

I do not recommend you go to an Introductions. It will only create more confusion and uncertainty. It would have turned off, as well as so many others.

I have NO commercial interests in any of the training organizations.

But I do have extensive experience working with many people over a long period of time. Many who did take EST still tell me, that was the best thing they ever did for themselves, and have lived a much more meaningful rewarding life because of it.

 

[Funseeker 22]

Knowing you a little, I don`t think this is your style at all. I did however meet someone last year who works for my company and also does motivational speaking and sales for Tony Robbins. This surprised me greatly since I would never have put this person into the TR sales category.

[Boston Guy]

RE: Just more bad negative and fearful advice! But it is free!

 

I beg your pardon.

 

I thought the question was about Lifespring, not EST? You seem to think differently.

 

I stand by my remarks on Lifespring, which are borne of personal experience helping multiple people try to escape their clutches. I don't care a hoot if your experience is different; I'm only reporting from what I have personally seen and experienced and I stand by my statements.

 

BG

[N.N.]

RE: Just more bad negative and fearful advice! But it is free!

 

msclonly wrote

>EST, as such, has not been around for 30 years.

 

That's not accurate.

 

est trainings were given as late as 1981, at which point the

organization changed its name to the "Centers Network" (at

least partly, I believe, because there were too many negative

perceptions associated with the est name) and continued to

offer est-like trainings for a while.

[Guest msclonly]

Yes, It is 20 years ago since EST was presented in the 1970´s format, then the training was changed tp a more personal exerience with many psychological benefits. But there have been ongoing changes and immprovements, since the very first trainings under the privately held company of the 1950´s, that was long before EST!

 

Lifespring was started from the experiences gained in EST!

You could say it was a copy of EST with a new Name and group, who must have took their EST training very seriously.

 

 

The Forum came into being by the EST organization trainers.

Think of it as an ongoing evolution.

 

Have a nice day!

[guyinsf]

RE: Just more bad negative and fearful advice! But it is free!

 

Interesting assertions. I'm curious what the bases are of your conclusions. I never read about any studies that demonstrated that mental health professionals who took any of these trainings were "far more effective" than others. I'm not suggesting that I've read even a majority of the literature in the field, but I did get a master's degree in a mental health discipline. I don't remember reading or hearing anything about EST or any of its offshoots during my education nor have I heard anything subsequently -- until your post.

 

Can you cite the studies on which you based your post? I would be interested in reading them.

 

>

>I did the original trainings, not Lifespring, several times to

>LEARN and UNDERSTAND the process taking place in thousands of

>people. I have a Major in Psychology with much Sociology,

>Social Psychology, and advanced studies in Psychiatry. These

>trainings actually started in the 1950´s in a commercial

>setting for a large company. It is based on some of the most

>extensive research in Psychology or Human Developement

>available. Psychologists, Psychiatrists, who took the

>trainings were far more effective in their therapeutic work

>with others. But the Psychiatric organizations at the time

>did not like the competition, so attacked it without really

>knowing what was happening. I know because I could see it

>from both sides of the coin.

>The people who took it were very successful and better

>adjusted to all aspects of their life. They just were better

>human beings.

[JamesK840]

For those with mental health training...

 

Parts of this were a little over my head (and the typist or OCR software made a couple mistakes), but on the whole I found it fascinating:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/lifespring/lifespring4.html

 

Musclonly, do you agree with any parts of that study, any specific refutations, and any 'counter' studies to cite?

 

The friend who's deep in Lifespring had been through Est... I'm going to give him my answer today, I know there are no magic words but if anybody has any advice on things I might say that may (eventually) help him, I'm listening...

[Guest msclonly]

RE: For those with mental health training...

 

I don´t know where you are coming from at the moment, but some thimgs come to mind to say.

 

No thanks, but I am not interested at this time. (That is a PERIOD).

 

I am interested, but not at this time. And I am not interested in any more discussion or perceived pressure.

 

I will do it, but am not sure when.

 

All of the above end with a period, and there is no need to continue with any discussion, that feels like you are being badgered to do it now. No need to be defensive or get upset about it.

You should be in control of your destiny, but it seems difficult at times with some people.

[JamesK840]

RE: For those with mental health training...

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not worried he's going to talk me into it, and if he just stops talking to me altogether I won't be surprised (and my concerns about the nature of this group will be confirmed).

 

What I want to do is get him to consider, if only for a moment, how much of his life he's put into this and if there is any foreseeable point in the near future where he might take what he's learned and continue his life's work... instead of embroiling himself into the middle of this pyramid for years and years.

[Guest msclonly]

What gives you the right to advise him about his life, if you don´t .....

 

...need or want his advise as to what to do with yours?

 

You are not responsible for his decisions and have about as much right to convince him of any thing, he may choose to or not do with his life, career or friendships!

 

It would be best to focus on your own life.

 

And if you part ways, so be it. That is life!

 

It is NOT about the control of other people!

 

We all must learn to have more respect for outselves, and others, however different our directions are going!

 

 

PS I do recall a Trainer who split from EST to develope a competing program for whatever reasons. Lifespring was the outcome.

There is doubt that confidentiality and non competition agreements were broken in the process.

Personally, if I had a choice, I would do EST and the FORUM again. I would not be interested in a copy, more or less, of them.

In fact, I have been considering doing the Advanced Forum, while I entertain NO thoughts of being more then a participant to learn any new technology and get additional benefits. Many friends and people, that I know took the initial training and nothing else. They aare still very happy to have done it and consider their lives since have been more rewarding from a humanistic standpoint.

 

That article you mention is a goobly-gook of psycho talk that leaves you with little more understanding, then when you started to read it.

 

It appears, that you have already made up your mind, so any more information will be a waste of your and my time.