J.D. Florez and Aida Garifullina "Parigi O Cara"

[body2body]

I came across this on YouTube. It's from this years Bastille day concert on the Champ de Mars. The orchestra is the Orchestre National de France. The Conductor is Daniele Gatti. It was broadcast on national television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_9ZBwAWUg

[whipped guy]

Reading the title of early this morning and being in a somewhat blurry eyed state my first impression was, "Parigi o cara" ain't from Aïda!

[body2body]

Reading the title of early this morning and being in a somewhat blurry eyed state my first impression was, "Parigi o cara" ain't from Aïda!

Aida Garifullina was a name I'd not come across before. She was the winner of the 2013 Operalia competition. She is certainly beautiful.

Here is another selection from the concert. Contralto Marie-Nicole Lemieux (sounding like a Mezzo here) singing

Saint-Saens "Mon Coeur S'Ouvre a Ta Voix" .

What amazes me is this concert was broadcast on France 2, a major television network.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD08C5GsPk

[+ sync]

Contralto Marie-Nicole Lemieux (sounding like a Mezzo here) singing

Saint-Saens "Mon Coeur S'Ouvre a Ta Voix" .

What amazes me is this concert was broadcast on France 2, a major television network.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD08C5GsPk

 

What beautiful singing, power with tonal beauty and control. Each time I thought she might be overtaken by vibrato she brought it right back.

[whipped guy]

Contralto Marie-Nicole Lemieux...

What beautiful singing, power with tonal beauty and control. Each time I thought she might be overtaken by vibrato she brought it right back.

 

You mention her vibrato. I always think that vibrato adds color to a voice. However where does a healthy vibrato end and a wobble begin? It's a matter of taste and we all hear things differently.

 

There are all types of vibrato... First a machine gun delivery from mezzo Conchita Supervia:

 

 

Next a glimmering shimmer type vibrato from soprano Pilar Lorengar and I don't think that it's a coincidence that they are both Spanish:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi7yM-sj4NQ

 

To further complicate the issue, did Callas have a wobble or simply a wide vibrato? As I mentioned, we all hear differently and one person's wobble is another person's vibrato. I can easily see... or rather hear... how someone can think of Lemieux as having a wobble. Personally I think that it adds character to her singing.

[+ sync]

You mention her vibrato. I always think that vibrato adds color to a voice. However where does a healthy vibrato end and a wobble begin? It's a matter of taste and we all hear things differently.

 

There are all types of vibrato... First a machine gun delivery from mezzo Conchita Supervia:

 

 

Next a glimmering shimmer type vibrato from soprano Pilar Lorengar and I don't think that it's a coincidence that they are both Spanish:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi7yM-sj4NQ

 

To further complicate the issue, did Callas have a wobble or simply a wide vibrato? As I mentioned, we all hear differently and one person's wobble is another person's vibrato. I can easily see... or rather hear... how someone can think of Lemieux as having a wobble. Personally I think that it adds character to her singing.

 

Indeed, we all hear differently. I prefer to hear vibrato supportive rather than featured. My preference for vibrato is in the singing of the late Arleen Auger. I would be interested to know what you think:

[whipped guy]

To reply to @sync...

 

Some singers have a vibrato as a feature of their normal vocal production. It certainly adds color to their voices. Such was the case with Supervia and Lorengar. I purposely chose them because both have been criticized for that very aspect of their singing. Others who don't normally have a voice that is naturally imbued with a certain amount of vibrato use it almost as a form of variation or decoration much like a violinist would use it to add a certain extra feeling to a given passage. Some conductors such as Von Karajan use it as a trick by having the string section play with increased vibrato to add a certain intensity to a given passage. Such "tricks of the trade" are what make a performance seem unique or at the very least different from that of another performer.

 

Regarding Auger, she had a very pure sounding voice that is perfect for this Mozart piece and especially since it would have been sung by a boy soprano (with a pure voice and not much vibrato) in the 18th Century. Of course the C Minor Mass this was taken from was never finished so I wonder if the piece was even performed in such a manner. At least there is no official record of the fragmented "Credo" ever being performed in public. I can't imagine a young boy doing justice to the piece as it is one of the most sublime of all Mozart's creations.

 

In any event, I really don't hear much vibrato in Auger's voice unless you are referencing the fact that the voice sounds healthy. What vibrato I do hear occurs on her lowest notes and adds a certain amount of extra color to what is probably the least interesting sounding portion of her voice. I would guess that she did that on purpose.

[+ honcho]

Indeed, we all hear differently. I prefer to hear vibrato supportive rather than featured. My preference for vibrato is in the singing of the late Arleen Auger. I would be interested to know what you think:

 

To reply to @sync...

 

Some singers have a vibrato as a feature of their normal vocal production. ... Such was the case with Supervia and Lorengar. I purposely chose them because both have been criticized for that very aspect of their singing. Others who don't normally have a voice that is naturally imbued with a certain amount of vibrato use it almost as a form of variation or decoration much like a violinist would use it to add a certain extra feeling to a given passage. Some conductors such as Von Karajan use it as a trick by having the string section play with increased vibrato to add a certain intensity to a given passage. Such "tricks of the trade" are what make a performance seem unique or at the very least different from that of another performer.

 

... I can't imagine a young boy doing justice to the piece as it is one of the most sublime of all Mozart's creations.

 

In any event, I really don't hear much vibrato in Auger's voice unless you are referencing the fact that the voice sounds healthy. What vibrato I do hear occurs on her lowest notes and adds a certain amount of extra color to what is probably the least interesting sounding portion of her voice. I would guess that she did that on purpose.

 

I really like what Auger did here, and I suggest my esteemed colleague Whipped Guy try listening again a couple of

times. Auger *does* use vibrato and I think if you measured it it's going about 50% of time.

 

It's just that she starts off straight-tone when soft, and as she swells within a phrase adds more of it (and increases the speed), and backs off towards the ends of phrase when she softens back down. So it isn't passage by passage,

it's *within a phrase* and another tool for shaping intensity, along with dynamics and vocal color.

 

With Supervia and Lorengar (to quote my oboe teacher) - it's more like a light switch - either on or off,

although I think that Lorengar does it rather more sweetly.

 

As you might guess, the use of vibrato is something that wind players have to think about.

 

[Even more off topic, almost all american clarinet players are taught not to use it - although Richard Stolzman does]

[whipped guy]

I really like what Auger did here, and I suggest my esteemed colleague Whipped Guy try listening again a couple of

times. Auger *does* use vibrato and I think if you measured it it's going about 50% of time.

 

It's just that she starts off straight-tone when soft, and as she swells within a phrase adds more of it (and increases the speed), and backs off towards the ends of phrase when she softens back down. So it isn't passage by passage,

it's *within a phrase* and another tool for shaping intensity, along with dynamics and vocal color.

 

With Supervia and Lorengar (to quote my oboe teacher) - it's more like a light switch - either on or off,

although I think that Lorengar does it rather more sweetly.

 

As you might guess, the use of vibrato is something that wind players have to think about.

 

[Even more off topic, almost all american clarinet players are taught not to use it - although Richard Stolzman does]

 

As I mentioned above we all hear differently. I listened twice initially and I hear a very healthy voice, and a very pure voice. I think that what I am referencing as a very healthy voice is what you are indicating as being vibrato. In some sections and mainly in her higher register the voice sounds white, straight, slim (not quite sure how to characterize it, but more Emma Kirkby like... well not quite!) where the voice has less of a fullness to it and absolutely no vibrato. I sense she is doing that on purpose to make the voice sound more pure in the upper reaches. The way that the middle of her voice is produced is most likely her natural vocal production and while I don't hear vibrato (simply a full healthy sound) I think that's where you hear vibrato. In her lowest notes I hear a pronounced vibrato.

 

I think it's a matter of terminology at least in part combined with having different ears.

 

One of my favorite baritones is Rolando Panerai. I hear a very pleasant, healthy, and sweet sounding pronounced vibrato in his voice. I recently read a review of one of my favorite recordings where his voice was described as having a "bear like growl"! The reviewer used it to indicate that his voice was colorful. Colorful yes! But not a growl!! So different vocabulary and different ears were involved to describe the same voice in the same recording!!!!

[whipped guy]

Addendum to the above: I think what @sync is referencing as a "vibrato supportive rather than featured" is simply the healthy glowing sound of Auger's voice, at least to my ears. With Lorengar it's naturally there and more pronounced. With Supervia it's an even more pronounced feature of her natural and healthy sound... but possibly not to everyone's liking due to its extreme nature.

[+ honcho]

I hear a very healthy voice, and a very pure voice. I think that what I am referencing as a very heathery voice is what you are indicating as being vibrato. In some sections and mainly in her higher register the voice sounds white, straight, slim ...

 

Might you be willing to reference times within the video?

 

For example when the flute makes an entrance around :27 , he plays it without vibrato (straight tone) for the first 5 notes, and adds a very subtle vibrato in the middle of the sixth note; the oboe and bassoon use constant vibrato

in their entering phrases. I'm defining vibrato as any intentional pulsation of loudness (or sometimes pitch) at

a rate faster than the underlying notes. It can be quite subtle.

 

At 1:27 Auger makes an entrance on a fairly high note and she is using vibrato even at the entrance, but stops it

as soon as she makes the leap up and for the scale fragment of 6 notes following.

 

at 1:40 she uses vibrato at the start of the "Ex" of "ex maria", less on the second half of it (a downwards major third), sings the "Ma" straight tone, uses even a little more vibrato on the first half of "ri" as a very graceful emphasis.

 

At 1:55 ("Et"), the entrance is straight tone intially but she pretty quickly adds vibrato increasing the intensity

as she crescendos. In the moving notes at 2:04 she employs straight tone, but my guess is that she doesn't want to

detract from the integrity of the pitches. (Her tone there is a little harsher than when she's holding a note, and I applaud her restraint in not using vibrato to make it sound prettier).

[whipped guy]

@honcho I hear it all, it's just that I hear a fuller sound when you are calling it vibrato and a whiter leaner sound when you are referencing a lack of vibrato.

 

I only hear a pronounced deliberate vibrato in her lowest notes. I hear a deliberate straight tone at other times as you describe. Otherwise I hear her natural voice, or what I assume rightly or wrongly to be her natural voice. You are calling it use of vibrato, I am saying that it is the natural quality of her voice, or to put in in other terms the natural heartbeat and pulse of her instrument.

 

Vibrato is the past participle of vibrare to vibrate. I don't hear forced vibrations in her voice other than in her lowest resister. Vibrato can also be defined as the natural lifeline of a voice that has a rich tonal quality. It can also mean pulsations of pitch when taken to the extreme... as I mentioned above where does vibrato end and a wobble begin????

 

I hear a richer tone in her voice where you hear something else that you reference as vibrato. Other places I hear a deliberate lack of that rich quality, and at times I hear a more deliberate pulsating quality. Both are different from what I perceive to be the norm for her voice. What I am referencing as the norm is your use of vibrato. We are looking at the same thing from different sides of the equation.

 

In any event, with some of the early music groups the lack of vibrato can lead to a very astringent tone. I can't believe that vibrato was totally eschewed in the 18th Century. Indeed Leopold Mozart complained that some performers overly used an abused vibrato.

 

To end my favorite baritone Rolando Panerai... His voice naturally was imbued with a certain amount of vibrato in a way that his contemporary compatriot Tito Gobbi's voice was emphatically not! Like Lorengar and Supervia (at least to my ears) Panerai has a pronounced vibrato that is naturally part of his vocal production. It is the type of vibrato that a singer such as Auger would deliberately need to work at to produce. Listen to those lowest tone in that Mozart selection to hear where she does it deliberately. Read any article on Supervia and Lorengar and chances are the term vibrato will appear. Read something on Auger, Sutherland, and most other singers and the word will not be mentioned.

 

Listen to hear a voice that is pulsating with the sunshine of the Italian countryside if there ever was one.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIqFbCJaSLA

 

Now as an aside to @honcho I need to go hurt myself...

[body2body]

I heard Auger sing Alcina at LA Opera back in '86 ( or thereabouts) and my memory recalls more vibrato than she employs in the Mozart. I went back and found this recording of that role and you can hear much more prounced vibrato.

To my very untrained ear, it sounds perfectly appropriate for this more dramatic setting.

[+ sync]

Whipped Guy, it is always pleasurable, entertaining and educational to read your esoteric analyses. Your musicianship and knowledge of vocal production technique(s) along with Honcho's are dimensions beyond mine. That being the case, I dare to disagree with your analysis of Mr. Panerai's singing. To my ear, in the above recording his voice sounds guttural and devoid of color. (Please don't kill me.)

[whipped guy]

I heard Auger sing Alcina at LA Opera back in '86 ( or thereabouts) and my memory recalls more vibrato than she employs in the Mozart. I went back and found this recording of that role and you can hear much more prounced vibrato.

To my very untrained ear, it sounds perfectly appropriate for this more dramatic setting.

 

I am not sure when this recording was made in relationship to the Mozart, but voices change over time due to a variety of factors. Most voices have a tendency to widen and get larger. However, some constrict and get smaller. There are also physical factors involved such as weight gain or weight loss not to mention other issues both physical and psychological that can affect the quality of a voice. Unlike a well cared for instrument that is housed in a hermetically sealed and ideal environment, the human voice is subject to the everyday stresses of life. Heck, more than one famous singer has said that they are not sure what the voice is going to sound like on any given night. That combined with different musical styles, temperament, dramatic situation, size of the venue, etc. or simply the spur of moment can make a voice sound different.

Whipped Guy, it is always pleasurable, entertaining and educational to read your esoteric analyses. Your musicianship and knowledge of vocal production technique(s) along with Honcho's are dimensions beyond mine. That being the case, I dare to disagree with your analysis of Mr. Panerai's singing. To my ear, in the above recording his voice sounds guttural and devoid of color. (Please don't kill me.)

I prefaced my remarks by saying that WE ALL HEAR DIFFERENTLY! That's why I never get in a tizzy when someone disagrees with what I hear or if I disagree with what they hear. Heck I like Callas who is probably the most controversial singer ever to walk this earth, and in more ways than one. So I am quite used to being exposed to many other opinions. However, I always respect the opinions of others as sincere, and that goes for non musical matters as well. We are all a product of our experiences in life and form opinions based on those experiences. As such we are all unique individuals and that is what makes life on this earth so interesting.

 

Regarding Signor Panerai, I hear sunshine. As I noted in a posting above a reviewer likened his voice to a "bear like growl". So you agree with the professional reviewer.

 

As for myself other than 6 years of piano lessons through high school and one semester of music appreciation in college I am totally self taught. I have one set of ears and mine are different from those of others and they are unique to my being. That combined with whatever I have been able to absorb are the basis for any knowledge that I might have acquired over the years.

[body2body]

From the same Bastille Day concert in Paris, here is Mr. Florez singing " Au Mont Ida" from Offenbach's La Belle Helene. He is just spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nJeMloe354

[+ sync]

From the same Bastille Day concert in Paris, here is Mr. Florez singing " Au Mont Ida" from Offenbach's La Belle Helene. He is just spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nJeMloe354

 

I had always given Juan Diego Florez high marks for technical expertise, but his voice did not impress me with a richness until I heard this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD1Cq2T5veI

[whipped guy]

I had always given Juan Diego Florez high marks for technical expertise, but his voice did not impress me with a richness until I heard this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD1Cq2T5veI

 

I have never heard Floréz do the Italian version of this aria. Thanks for posting. One funny aspect is that he salutes at the point that the word "soldier" appears in the French version, but in the Italian version the word is "husband" and "soldier" appears later in the sentence and in the music. I guess he was used to saluting at that point since he usually sings the piece in French. Interestingly Brownlee below does the same salute, but since he is singing the piece in the original French he has it timed correctly with the French word for "soldier"! Just a small point that made me chuckle.

 

We are blessed to be living in an age with so many great tenors. Floréz is a force of Nature, but Lawrence Brownlee ain't chopped liver!

 

[+ sync]

We are blessed to be living in an age with so many great tenors. Floréz is a force of Nature, but Lawrence Brownlee ain't chopped liver!

 

Great post. Brownlee was phenomenal right out of the box. And we are blessed with tenors and more to come. Give a listen to this young tenor. While my ear is usually most attracted to the lush fullness of the low tones in singers' voices Yang Yang's delivery of the high C's in this video stopped me in my tracks.

[whipped guy]

What is interesting is that tenors are coming from some of the most unlikely places. Here's Bogdan Mihai from Romania. He tends to aspirate his coloratura a bit as often is a trait of singers from Eastern Europe, but otherwise he is quite fluent in some difficult music from a little known bel canto opera.

 

 

Also from is China Yijie Shi and to think that this is the B Team, the second string, the bench warmers among today's tenors!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ylVO_7xnQ

 

One more outstanding tenor is Michael Spyres from the USA... the Ozarks to be exact! A first string player in my estimation.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIlOcVJPAKU

[+ sync]

What is interesting is that tenors are coming from some of the most unlikely places. Here's Bogdan Mihai from Romania. He tends to aspirate his coloratura a bit as often is a trait of singers from Eastern Europe, but otherwise he is quite fluent in some difficult music from a little known bel canto opera.

 

 

Also from is China Yijie Shi and to think that this is the B Team, the second string, the bench warmers among today's tenors!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ylVO_7xnQ

 

One more outstanding tenor is Michael Spyres from the USA... the Ozarks to be exact! A first string player in my estimation.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIlOcVJPAKU

 

A fine collection. Do you think the tendency to aspirate that you mentioned in Mihai's singing is what enables him to have such impressive separation in his runs?

[whipped guy]

A fine collection. Do you think the tendency to aspirate that you mentioned in Mihai's singing is what enables him to have such impressive separation in his runs?

I prefer a slightly smoother vocal production in runs as Floréz , Brownlee, and even Shi would do it. Some singers tend to slur their runs and in the process miss a note or two or three. Therefore they "separate" or as I say "aspirate" the notes so as not to slur things. He does it ever so slightly in the example posted. Aspirating runs taken to the extreme can be very irritating. Think of how pianist Glenn Gould played Bach in a "martellato" manner (like hammering the keys) with a very type of pointed articulation as opposed to having things flow smoothly like oil. Cecilia Bartoli often approaches her coloratura in such a way. It makes her singing sound exciting, but it overstays its welcome for me when taken to the extreme. It also makes it easier to articulate the notes. Just my preference.

[+ sync]

Precisely, I couldn't think of how to phrase it. It was the "hammering" sensation that was very evident to me in Mihai's runs. While I was taken by the separation, it clearly sacrificed smoothness and some of his tonal beauty. Fine singing comes with a smorgasbord of pitfalls.

[TruHart1]

Indeed, we all hear differently. I prefer to hear vibrato supportive rather than featured. My preference for vibrato is in the singing of the late Arleen Auger. I would be interested to know what you think:

This discussion is fascinating. I know I'm a bit late to the party but Auger was, to me, one of the most elegant sopranos ever, and a singer whom you could hear/see had thought out every nuance as she sang. Here is Mozart's Exultate Jubilate from the same concert with Bernstein conducting where she uses her vibrato in an almost luxurious way!

 

TruHart1

[whipped guy]

Since we have had several examples of the Donizetti aria with its infamous nine high C's. I submit my absolute favorite rendition of Mozart's motet Exultate Jubilate as sung by Joan Sutherland. The unique timbre of her voice and the way she articulates the trills are alone worth the price of admission!

 

Interestingly this performance has been dated both as being from Australia 1965 and Germany 1959. I think that the confusion stems from the fact that it was released on LP Down Under in 1965 when Sutherland toured the country after a long absence and after gaining fame worldwide. To my ears 1959 sounds like the more probable date as the voice is similar to the voice that appears on the famous Carlo Maria Giulini recording of Mozart's Don Giovanni which also dates from 1959. As I mentioned above voices tend to change over time and by 1965 Sutherland had larger sounding voice. Also, I don't hear any of the so-called mannerisms that crept into her singing in the sixties.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63F7sPvw6Gg