Josh Groban

[brentberna]

I know that Josh Groban does not "swing our way" but would like to discuss with others his beuatiful voice. He is not bad looking either. I am new to this whole thing so please forgive me if any of my posts have been covered before. Thanks.

[Spida]

He's got those bedroom eyes.. Ooooh.. Oh yeah he has a wonderful voice!

[bostonman]

> Oh yeah he has a wonderful voice!

 

He does? (Sorry - I'm a musician...bear with me...lol) I suppose if you like that kind of schlocky "crossover" artistically void Bocelli-clone faux-classical stuff, he does. I don't.

 

Actually, let me qualify that. The voice itself has the potential to be quite beautiful. But I don't think he uses it. His singing and his arrangements are all lowest-common-denominator "easy listening," and any artist should be capable of so much more. What's the use of having talent when you don't use it to express something? We have a great legacy of both classical and pop singers who can sing circles around the Bocellis/Charlotte Churchs/Grobans of the world...I just don't see the appeal. (ok - off my soapbox now...lol)

 

Looks-wise, yeah, I agree with you there...:-)

[Rick Munroe]

>I know that Josh Groban does not "swing our way"

 

Maybe if he wore boxers...

[brentberna]

you are a musician? So was Beethoven(deaf) and Stravinsky!Music is in the "ear" of the beholder. I am not trying to be mean.

[bostonman]

>you are a musician? So was Beethoven(deaf) and

>Stravinsky!Music is in the "ear" of the beholder. I am not

>trying to be mean.

 

I'm not trying to be mean either...just passionate about the subject. :-)

 

Beethoven was known as an incredibly passionate pianist, and he did write the majority of his music with the ability to hear. His late works, when he was deaf, show a desire to break out and risk new ideas and sonorities, something that hearing may have limited him from doing (even though much of his music was innovative, carrying us from the Classical to the Romantic period of music).

 

Stravinsky, ironically enough, tried to write music that could be deliberate and unrelenting in its austerity. Still, it is never boring, often quite striking, and often quite moving (listen to the 2nd and 3rd movements of the "Symphony Of Psalms" and tell me if you are not moved emotionally... ).

 

But still - these were primarily composers (regardless of the fact that they also played/conducted) - Groban is an interpreter of others' music. One can dislike the music of Beethoven or Stravinsky, but can still appreciate the spirit and passion of a performer who can bring their music to life. I can appreciate some of the material Groban sings, but have a hard time thinking that he has much belief in what he is singing. I just don't hear him bringing music to life.

 

But indeed - to each his own... :-)

[Brianfix2002]

I love to listen to him sing. I think he has a beautiful voice. I guess he appeals to the lowly masses... not to pretentious queens.

[Guest buffroger]

>We have a great legacy of both classical and pop

>singers who can sing circles around the Bocellis/Charlotte

>Churchs/Grobans of the world...I just don't see the appeal.

>(ok - off my soapbox now...lol)

>

It would be nice if you can name these singers that you are talking about.

[bostonman]

>

>>We have a great legacy of both classical and pop

>>singers who can sing circles around the Bocellis/Charlotte

>>Churchs/Grobans of the world...I just don't see the appeal.

>>(ok - off my soapbox now...lol)

>>

>It would be nice if you can name these singers that you are

>talking about.

>

 

Well, I don't want to make this the focus of this thread - and everyone has their own personal favorites. But I'll name a few

classical tenors, both past and present, for starters:

 

Franco Corelli (who was not only one of the most influential tenors of his day, but a sex symbol as well)

 

Nicolai Gedda (one of the most versatile classical vocalists EVER - and my personal favorite tenor of all times.)

 

Luciano Pavarotti (despite his weight and unfortunate lack of stage presence, he took his appeal beyond the opera stage and was, in his best years, as much of a world celebrity as an opera singer. An easy target to make fun of, but also a very sensitive musician.) He also was one of the original "three tenors (with Placido Domingo and Jose Carerras), capitalizing on the celebrity appeal (even if his forays outside classical music aren't too convincing...lol)

 

Placido Domingo (maybe not always the perfect melt-in-your-ears kind of voice, but a singer who never lets a word or note go by without wholehearted expression.)

 

Roberto Alagna (a honey-voiced tenor who is still somewhat overshadowed by bigger names, but he has a lot to offer for those that have heard him.)

 

These are just a few...and I'm totally prepared for a response of "I've never even HEARD of these people!" If so, go find some recordings and try them for yourself... :-)

[NASAguy]

Bostonman--

I agree with your position entirely but please add JUAN DIEGO FLOREZ to your list of outstanding tenors. Not only is he unsurpassed in Rossini and Donizetti but he is very, very handsome as well. I wouldn't mind a few hours alone with him!!!!!

[bostonman]

>Bostonman--

>I agree with your position entirely but please add JUAN DIEGO

>FLOREZ to your list of outstanding tenors. Not only is he

>unsurpassed in Rossini and Donizetti but he is very, very

>handsome as well. I wouldn't mind a few hours alone with

>him!!!!!

 

Agreed, and agreed! :-) I've only heard him on the Met broadcasts of L'Italiana In Algeri and Barber Of Seville, but yes, he's great!

 

You know, for those of you that like Groban - that's absolutely fine. I just think you're missing out on artists who make better use of their talents. As someone who spends a huge amount of time working with, listening to, and auditioning/hiring singers (mostly in the realm of musical theatre), I have the most respect and admiration for performers who aren't afraid to loosen up, take risks, and reach beyond themselves. Perhaps as Groban grows older, branches out, and finds different promoters, he will find the way to the artistry that I feel he isn't really showing us yet. (And I don't doubt that his promoters have a good deal to do with his sound - right now he's singing the way he's being marketed to sing. Eventually I think he'll want to express more of himself, and less of his promoter's concepts. At least I hope so.)

[Guest buffroger]

I think you guys are missing the point. You are comparing Josh Groban to "Opera singers". Josh never think of himself as an opera singer.

I love those Opera singers you mentioned and have their records...but only singing opera arias. Do you like them singing pop or crossover songs?...Not me, they are just not trained to sing that way. I admired them for what they do best.

[+ deej]

>Actually, let me qualify that. The voice itself has the

>potential to be quite beautiful. But I don't think he

>uses it. His singing and his arrangements are

>all lowest-common-denominator "easy listening," and any artist

>should be capable of so much more. What's the use of having

>talent when you don't use it to express

>something? We have a great legacy of both classical and pop

>singers who can sing circles around the Bocellis/Charlotte

>Churchs/Grobans of the world...I just don't see the appeal.

>(ok - off my soapbox now...lol)

 

You overlook one important point: he's making a living.

 

While I agree with much of your critique, it's hard to argue with commercial (lowest common denominator) success. It worked for Barry Manilow! ;-) Once he has established success, he'll be free (and be able to afford) to branch out and concentrate more on art.

 

Linda Ronstadt established herself as a commercial success before branching out with 3 albums of big band tunes with Nelson Riddle. Or her "Canciones de mi Padre".

 

Meanwhile, he's earning a living. And if he chooses to continue to be the equivalent of a Vegas lounge lizard well, so be it. Wayne Newton, Engelbert Humperdink, Manilow, etc., made tidy livings that way. There's nothing wrong with getting paid well for doing something you enjoy.

 

Elsewhere in this thread you offer names of incredibly talented alternatives and I applaud and agree across the board. And if Groban's career and discussions like this one get people into music stores looking for great tenors, FANTASTIC! :7 His career will have served another valuable service besides putting food on his table.

[+ deej]

>they are just not

>trained to sing that way. I admired them for what they do

>best.

 

They can be.

 

Kiri Te Kanawa did an album with Nelson Riddle also. It was pretty much a flop, but mostly because of choice of material I think. Still, her voice is as heavenly singing "Blue Skies" as any Donizetti aria.

 

Also grab the recording Bernstein & NYPhil made of West Side Story featuring the stars of opera of the day. Kiri Te Kanawa as Maria, Jose Carreras as Tony, etc.

 

It's exquisite. (OK, it gets a little funny when the fat lady sings "I like to be in A-Me-RRRRRRRRRi-Ca".) But Marilyn Horne singing SOMEWHERE, or TeKanawa/Carreras singing ONE HEART, ONE LOVE will bring tears to your eyes.

 

The West Side Story recording begs the age-old question of whether it's opera or a musical. I've always considered it the latter. Although with lyrics like "Dear Officer Kruppke, we're down on our knees, cause no-one likes a fella with a social disease" it could fit right in with the general social mayhem of grand opera. :+

[bostonman]

>Also grab the recording Bernstein & NYPhil made of West Side

>Story featuring the stars of opera of the day. Kiri Te Kanawa

>as Maria, Jose Carreras as Tony, etc.

>

>It's exquisite. (OK, it gets a little funny when the fat lady

>sings "I like to be in A-Me-RRRRRRRRRi-Ca".) But Marilyn Horne

>singing SOMEWHERE, or TeKanawa/Carreras singing ONE HEART, ONE

>LOVE will bring tears to your eyes.

>

>The West Side Story recording begs the age-old question of

>whether it's opera or a musical. I've always considered it the

>latter. Although with lyrics like "Dear Officer Kruppke, we're

>down on our knees, cause no-one likes a fella with a social

>disease" it could fit right in with the general social mayhem

>of grand opera. :+

 

Ironically, Deej, after you so wonderfully supported my earlier comments (and I agree with you on all the artists you mention as well), I have to somewhat disagree about this particular recording of West Side Story. Parts are as wonderful as you describe. But I feel Carreras was a bad choice for Tony (he can't handle the often colloquial English or the jazzier side of the music - I'm still sad they didn't get Jerry Hadley instead) and in general the music is a bit oversung by all. To parallel my feelings about Groban with this recording, I feel it's partially the same symptom - beautiful sound, but no immediate expression behind it. Comparing this version to the 1957 original cast, of course you lose some great vocal qualities (though the original singer of "Somewhere," Reri Grist, would go on to have a full operatic career), but you gain an energy and immediacy that the "opera cast" can't begin to match. Part of the missing energy, IMO, is also due to Bernstein's own labored tempos. Also, don't forget that Robbins and Bernstein deliberately cast young, "green" singers in the original production - they wanted a raw energy rather than a polished sheen. The operatic recording was a great experiment, but I'd rather hear "actors who sing" in this music than "singers who act." But, if you enjoy the recording, by all means, enjoy it!!

 

BTW - in terms of successful crossover singers, how about Dawn Upshaw? She's done several CD's of musical theatre rep which work quite well. And I think Audra MacDonald, who started with the intent of going into opera before shifting to Broadway, counts as well.

[bostonman]

>Also grab the recording Bernstein & NYPhil made of West Side

>Story featuring the stars of opera of the day. Kiri Te Kanawa

>as Maria, Jose Carreras as Tony, etc.

>

>It's exquisite. (OK, it gets a little funny when the fat lady

>sings "I like to be in A-Me-RRRRRRRRRi-Ca".) But Marilyn Horne

>singing SOMEWHERE, or TeKanawa/Carreras singing ONE HEART, ONE

>LOVE will bring tears to your eyes.

>

>The West Side Story recording begs the age-old question of

>whether it's opera or a musical. I've always considered it the

>latter. Although with lyrics like "Dear Officer Kruppke, we're

>down on our knees, cause no-one likes a fella with a social

>disease" it could fit right in with the general social mayhem

>of grand opera. :+

 

Ironically, Deej, after you so wonderfully supported my earlier comments (and I agree with you on all the artists you mention as well), I have to somewhat disagree about this particular recording of West Side Story. Parts are as wonderful as you describe. But I feel Carreras was a bad choice for Tony (he can't handle the often colloquial English or the jazzier side of the music - I'm still sad they didn't get Jerry Hadley instead) and in general the music is a bit oversung by all. To parallel my feelings about Groban with this recording, I feel it's partially the same symptom - beautiful sound, but no immediate expression behind it. Comparing this version to the 1957 original cast, of course you lose some great vocal qualities (though the original singer of "Somewhere," Reri Grist, would go on to have a full operatic career), but you gain an energy and immediacy that the "opera cast" can't begin to match. Part of the missing energy, IMO, is also due to Bernstein's own labored tempos. Also, don't forget that Robbins and Bernstein deliberately cast young, "green" singers in the original production - they wanted a raw energy rather than a polished sheen. The operatic recording was a great experiment, but I'd rather hear "actors who sing" in this music than "singers who act." But, if you enjoy the recording, by all means, enjoy it!!

 

BTW - in terms of successful crossover singers, how about Dawn Upshaw? She's done several CD's of musical theatre rep which work quite well. And I think Audra MacDonald, who started with the intent of going into opera before shifting to Broadway, counts as well.

[+ deej]

>I have to somewhat disagree about this

>particular recording of West Side Story. Parts are as

>wonderful as you describe. But I feel Carreras was a bad

>choice for Tony (he can't handle the often colloquial English

>or the jazzier side of the music - I'm still sad they didn't

>get Jerry Hadley instead) and in general the music is a bit

>oversung by all.

 

So it's a "glass half empty" situation for you, and "glass half full" for me. That's fair enough, and I'd be willing to swap half-empty for half-full. It has good bits and not so good bits, but it's still overall not a bad listen.

 

I should also mention that my first career was as a classical clarinettist. I love this recording because I get a real chuckle listening to the white-haired NYPhil "getting down". I can close my eyes and "see" them in their tuxes. LOL

 

>Comparing this version to the 1957 original cast

 

Whoa! I didn't go there. :-)

 

Nothing can *ever* touch an original cast recording. OC is a defining recording, and it's what made the show a hit in the first place.

 

I do agree in musical theater I'd rather have actors who sing over singers who act. Many actresses (and Lucille Ball) have tried "Mame", but Angela Lansbury still owns the role in my book. It's definitely not for her vocal skills. Perhaps it's because, as the liner notes on the original cast album said, she could wear the dresses. ;-)

 

>BTW - in terms of successful crossover singers, how about Dawn

>Upshaw? She's done several CD's of musical theatre rep which

>work quite well. And I think Audra MacDonald, who started with

>the intent of going into opera before shifting to Broadway,

>counts as well.

 

Yep to all!