Was it All a Hoax ?

[jjkrkwood]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g246/sey115/sey115042/41_zpss1fcagta.gif

[jjkrkwood]

[jjkrkwood]

[AdamSmith]

for just this once, I don't think the topic is "satirical" although Ms Cait has single-handedly made a mockery of the Trans cause...

 

10's of thousands of dollars for Glam squads and stylists so you don't end up looking "like the typical trans man in a dress" is hardly being sympathetic OR supportive. Its basically turning your back on the essence of what Trans is... and making it into a more "superficial" and "whimsical" thing. I was a big supporter at first, and considered her Brave. Now, I am disgusted !

I agree completely. A wasted opportunity all around.

 

And disgusted with myself for being surprised by it.

[+ stevenkesslar]

This reminded me of the Bob Paris/Rod Jackson thing. I was not aware of that drama at the time, other than I REALLY wanted to buy the coffee table book of the really sexy black and white photos of them. And that right there makes part of my point. Whether it's authentic growth or trashy drama, don't underestimate the fact that Caitlyn is an important and positive symbol to some people, even if it is all so superficial.

 

Back to Bob and Rod, i don't think there was a reality tv/Kartrashian aspect to that drama. If anything, Paris lost revenue when he came out and made himself a posterchild for Gay couplehood. I have a client who knew Bob Paris in his bodybuilding days and insists that Bob Paris was only into one person: himself. But from what I have read about him, even Paris would admit that successful bodybuilders have to be narcissists. Bottom line is, whatever his flaws, I think Paris has to be viewed as a Gay hero as well as a Gay icon, and if narcissism had something to do with his view that he deserved the best, including the best legally sanctioned recognition of his Gay love, it makes narcissism look good.

 

I have to assume that the Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn/Kardashian narrative as it has played out from Olympic athlete to reality tv to trans has to involve more than a small dose of narcissism. So what? It one's step forward, one step back, but in the long run we'll probably look back at this the way we look back at Paris: a guy with a big ego, who in this case became a girl with a big ego, but who raised awareness and did at least some good.

[jjkrkwood]

This reminded me of the Bob Paris/Rod Jackson thing. I was not aware of that drama at the time, other than I REALLY wanted to buy the coffee table book of the really sexy black and white photos of them. And that right there makes part of my point. Whether it's authentic growth or trashy drama, don't underestimate the fact that Caitlyn is an important and positive symbol to some people, even if it is all so superficial.

 

Back to Bob and Rod, i don't think there was a reality tv/Kartrashian aspect to that drama. If anything, Paris lost revenue when he came out and made himself a posterchild for Gay couplehood. I have a client who knew Bob Paris in his bodybuilding days and insists that Bob Paris was only into one person: himself. But from what I have read about him, even Paris would admit that successful bodybuilders have to be narcissists. Bottom line is, whatever his flaws, I think Paris has to be viewed as a Gay hero as well as a Gay icon, and if narcissism had something to do with his view that he deserved the best, including the best legally sanctioned recognition of his Gay love, it makes narcissism look good.

 

I have to assume that the Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn/Kardashian narrative as it has played out from Olympic athlete to reality tv to trans has to involve more than a small dose of narcissism. So what? It one's step forward, one step back, but in the long run we'll probably look back at this the way we look back at Paris: a guy with a big ego, who in this case became a girl with a big ego, but who raised awareness and did at least some good.

 

 

Kessie, a good comparison but really not an apples to apples scenario. Yes, both poster children for change and acceptance, but I would hardly equate "gay coupledom" to "trans journey".. And I am really not quite certain how much good Caits involvement proved. If you speak to members of the Trans community NOW, not much good. Creating awareness is NOT always a positive. Personally I somehow find "doing good" diminished when its basically "self serving"... I suppose I'm not really a Narcissist afterall ? (as much as I love to look at myself)

[Juan Vancouver]

And NOW, if we can ALL just lick your ass Juan, the world would be the wonderful place it's supposed to be.....

 

Finally some sense in the world! (Says Juan assuming the position.)

 

Why are you not running for president? You'd have my vote!

[jjkrkwood]

Finally some sense in the world! (Says Juan assuming the position.)

 

Why are you not running for president? You'd have my vote!

 

 

Thank you Sir..... My platform "A tongue in Every Ass "

[+ stevenkesslar]

Finally some sense in the world! (Says Juan assuming the position.)

 

Why are you not running for president? You'd have my vote!

 

Funny you mention that, Dame Kockwood.

 

I noticed a different picture - the one with that 8 x 6 thing hanging out. I think I'd rather lick that.

 

Anyway, to each his own.

 

Does this mean I get to run as Dame Kockwood's Vice President?

[Juan Vancouver]

Thank you Sir..... My platform "A tongue in Every Ass "

 

Flip flopping much?

 

I was told your platform was "All tongues in Juan's ass!"

 

So tired of empty electoral promises! =(

 

I want my money back!

[+ stevenkesslar]

Kessie, a good comparison but really not an apples to apples scenario. Yes, both poster children for change and acceptance, but I would hardly equate "gay coupledom" to "trans journey".. And I am really not quite certain how much good Caits involvement proved. If you speak to members of the Trans community NOW, not much good. Creating awareness is NOT always a positive. Personally I somehow find "doing good" diminished when its basically "self serving"... I suppose I'm not really a Narcissist afterall ? (as much as I love to look at myself)

 

This probably falls under "to each his own" too.

 

I have no problem saying that Bruce/Caitlyn is self serving. I think it's also undeniable that s/he raised awareness about a larger and more diverse community. I'm sure there's a variety of opinions about whether that kind of awareness is good or bad. It cuts both ways.

 

Fortunately, as it relates to Juan, I think the best solution is to share. You get the ass, I get the cock.

 

(And no, I am not suggesting that Juan is self serving. And even if he is, I'd like an extra helping, please).

[jjkrkwood]

Funny you mention that, Dame Kockwood.

 

I noticed a different picture - the one with that 8 x 6 thing hanging out. I think I'd rather lick that.

 

Anyway, to each his own.

 

Does this mean I get to run as Dame Kockwood's Vice President?

 

 

Kessie, I'd be Honored to have you "under me"....

[jjkrkwood]

Flip flopping much?

 

I was told your platform was "All tongues in Juan's ass!"

 

So tired of empty electoral promises! =(

 

I want my money back!

 

So much for Hearsay... Unless you hear it from the Dames mouth, it aint so (but I am certain from the looks of things I'd be spending ALOT more time dining off YOUR table.....

[Kippy]

Wow!...if any of this is true it makes some sense. In watching her television show I was amazed at how "unfeminine" her mannerisms were. It was like Bruce Jenner in drag. I thought perhaps the hormone shots weren't taking hold or only produced breasts. There may have been some glam in make-up and wardrobe but ole' Caitlyn tromped around like a bull in a china shop. I guess I was expecting more of the woman to come through and all I got was the athlete Bruce!

 

Peace,

 

Kipp

[bigvalboy]

This reminded me of the Bob Paris/Rod Jackson thing. I was not aware of that drama at the time, other than I REALLY wanted to buy the coffee table book of the really sexy black and white photos of them. And that right there makes part of my point. Whether it's authentic growth or trashy drama, don't underestimate the fact that Caitlyn is an important and positive symbol to some people, even if it is all so superficial.

 

Back to Bob and Rod, i don't think there was a reality tv/Kartrashian aspect to that drama. If anything, Paris lost revenue when he came out and made himself a posterchild for Gay couplehood. I have a client who knew Bob Paris in his bodybuilding days and insists that Bob Paris was only into one person: himself. But from what I have read about him, even Paris would admit that successful bodybuilders have to be narcissists. Bottom line is, whatever his flaws, I think Paris has to be viewed as a Gay hero as well as a Gay icon, and if narcissism had something to do with his view that he deserved the best, including the best legally sanctioned recognition of his Gay love, it makes narcissism look good.

 

I have to assume that the Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn/Kardashian narrative as it has played out from Olympic athlete to reality tv to trans has to involve more than a small dose of narcissism. So what? It one's step forward, one step back, but in the long run we'll probably look back at this the way we look back at Paris: a guy with a big ego, who in this case became a girl with a big ego, but who raised awareness and did at least some good.

 

You make some interesting points Kessie, but at the end of the day, history will judge her. I have less issue with her transitioning, than her decision to reverse that process. It's like she bought a car and didn't like how it drove, so she just decided to trade it in.

 

In regards to Bob and Rod...It was an exciting time. So much was forbidden. I knew numerous pro-bodybuilders back in the day who were friends with Bob, I met him on a few occasions, and was fascinated by the whole "couple-hood" thing. I agree with your analysis about Bob. He had a rough go of it. For all intents and purposes, Bob lost his career. It was bullshit what it had to go through, but it was a different time, he was the first. Surprisingly homophobia is still rampant in the bodybuilding community even to this day. It's sad how some of these guys have to hide, sometimes having to chose career, just to keep food on the table

 

... And yes, I bought the book. displayed it proudly on the coffee table, and yes, that was a big deal at the time. Kept it for more decades than I can remember, but somewhere in the last move, I decided to toss it. Don't ask me why. I regret it now.

 

I know it doesn't matter, and nobody really gives a rat's behind, but I blamed Rob, I thought he was the narcissistic one. I thought Bob was a sweetheart, but what do I know.

[jjkrkwood]

This probably falls under "to each his own" too.

 

I have no problem saying that Bruce/Caitlyn is self serving. I think it's also undeniable that s/he raised awareness about a larger and more diverse community. I'm sure there's a variety of opinions about whether that kind of awareness is good or bad. It cuts both ways.

 

Fortunately, as it relates to Juan, I think the best solution is to share. You get the ass, I get the cock.

 

(And no, I am not suggesting that Juan is self serving. And even if he is, I'd like an extra helping, please).

 

Kessie, as an aside, I do love men that are "self serving" . Watching "up close" as a man pleases himself is the next Best thing to having it in your own mouth.... And another aside, often when I dine out I love to taste things off my dates plate. So I am not 100% sure I can commit to "I get ass, you get cock"... I may need a little taste since I simply Adore Spanish food. (and I always Dress to impress)

 

[Nvr2Thick]

This reminded me of the Bob Paris/Rod Jackson thing. I was not aware of that drama at the time, other than I REALLY wanted to buy the coffee table book of the really sexy black and white photos of them. And that right there makes part of my point. Whether it's authentic growth or trashy drama, don't underestimate the fact that Caitlyn is an important and positive symbol to some people, even if it is all so superficial.

 

Back to Bob and Rod, i don't think there was a reality tv/Kartrashian aspect to that drama. If anything, Paris lost revenue when he came out and made himself a posterchild for Gay couplehood. I have a client who knew Bob Paris in his bodybuilding days and insists that Bob Paris was only into one person: himself. But from what I have read about him, even Paris would admit that successful bodybuilders have to be narcissists. Bottom line is, whatever his flaws, I think Paris has to be viewed as a Gay hero as well as a Gay icon, and if narcissism had something to do with his view that he deserved the best, including the best legally sanctioned recognition of his Gay love, it makes narcissism look good.

 

I have to assume that the Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn/Kardashian narrative as it has played out from Olympic athlete to reality tv to trans has to involve more than a small dose of narcissism. So what? It one's step forward, one step back, but in the long run we'll probably look back at this the way we look back at Paris: a guy with a big ego, who in this case became a girl with a big ego, but who raised awareness and did at least some good.

 

I agree with the similarities, but I don't think that either example advances public opinion. I think too of Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche; a showpiece power couple that might have set a positive example, but also allowed the public to interpret the relationship failure and Heche's backpedaling sexuality as hypocrisy (see also: Melissa Etheridge and Julie Cypher).

 

I also don't like what these beautiful rich people do for their respective cultures. As others have noted, most transgendered persons aren't as Vogue-ready as Bruce Jenner and all the image his Wheaties money could buy. I loved Bob Paris's unshaven near-naked body, but I hated the idea that the poster-couple for gay relationships had to be as beautiful as those perfect bodies, professionally photographed.

 

Ten or more years ago I used to be an HGTV junkie, and I loved the way their shows would bring real world gays into their "reality" shows such as House Hunters. One of my favorites was two guys living in side by side condos, looking to sell or rent and buy a modest home together in some nondescript midwest suburb. The guys were so down to earth that it was a joy to watch. No gym bodies, no artistic careers, no blatant butch and fem. You couldn't pick out the top and the bottom in the relationship. I've been worn out on that channel's format and shows for a while, so I wonder if they're still doing that and I wonder if they are or could be introducing the transgender boy or girl next door to America. I think understanding someone's trans uncle living his life does a lot more to make the point than the rich and beautiful bankrolling a big statement in the media.

[+ stevenkesslar]

And another aside, often when I dine out I love to taste things off my dates plate. So I am not 100% sure I can commit to "I get ass, you get cock"... I may need a little taste since I simply Adore Spanish food. (and I always Dress to impress)

 

 

Don't worry, Dame Kockwood.

 

No one would ever accuse you of being a selfish bitch. :D:p

[jjkrkwood]

Dame Kockwoods Theory:

 

Bruce Jenner was a strictly hetero guy that enjoyed CROSSDRESSING. It was his secret and as a public figure with multi-million dollar endorsements, he couldnt indulge his passion for womens dressup and be seen in public. So he remained closeted and tormented until he figured out a way to be able to dress up and go public. At this juncture I do NOT believe he ever had breast implants. Any male with some pectoral tissue, a tight corset and an underwire bra, some strategic highlighting and contouring, can "create" the illusion of female breasts. Drag queens do it all the time. And thereby the idea of Caitlyn was born, giving Bruce the freedom to dressup and be seen in public, profit financially from a reality show about transitioning, public speaking apperances, and become the poster child for the Trans community. Very elaborate plan, and i do believe Kris Jenner knew all about it AND was in on it too.... The one thing Caitlyn couldnt alter was her "brain", and her views on same sex marriage and the Gay community. Here is where it all starts to fall apart... Once she starts being hated instead of loved for her viewpoints, what else to do but to go back to being str8 Bruce, and fucking women. And now that its known that he like to dress as a woman, that wouldnt be any surprise to anyone that may see him publicly as such. He'll just be a cross dresser. Pretty common stuff....

[+ dutchmuch]

There once was a guy named Bruce.

Whose gender ID was loose.

One day he's a he.

Next day she's a she.

Maybe someday he'll finally... choose.

If 'she' goes back to being 'he', will she/he have to give back the Woman of The Year Award?

http://img.wennermedia.com/760-width/caitlyn-jenner-award-lg.jpg

[jjkrkwood]

There once was a guy named Bruce.

Whose gender ID was loose.

One day he's a he.

Next day she's a she.

Maybe someday he'll finally... choose.

 

 

 

But in the Meantime......

 

http://www.myfroyoculture.com/img/FroYogurt.jpg

[rocky]

If it's true, its the most elaborate, perfectly orchestrated hoax EVA..... Rumblings in the pop culture world are about Caitlyn Jenners disappointment in her transition, and how hard her life has been since she transitioned to womanhood. (didn't we hear this about her life as a man prior?) Anyway she is so disillusioned about being a woman that she is seriously considering RE-transitioning to a man, and becoming Bruce again... WTF ??

 

Caitlyn explains she has never lost interest in or sexual attraction for WOMAN, and really doesn't jive with the idea of being lesbian. Although she claims she is happy with the world attention and understanding her transition has brought to the cause, being a woman is not her cup of Tea.. Understanding ? If all this is true, she is the most fucked-up and confused person in the world and any attention to the cause is now negative attention...

 

"Sources" are reporting they believe she will RE-transition in the next few years. It's a Process.......

 

I'm not sure what I should say at this point. Just waiting to see how this all plays out, and the komments from the Kardashian klan.... These fucking people KNOW how to keep the public talking about Them...

 

I am going to piss some people off but then again, that's what I do, not intentionally. I said from the beginning this was a 15 minute fame thing, I don't believe none of us were served, the gay, transgender community, non of us, by Bruce suddenly being a woman, in fact it was an embarrassment. Suddenly Caitlyn was a hero, deserved honors, bullshit. I keep saying 15 minutes of fame

[mike carey]

Is it so wrong to insert practical calculations into these matters? She sounds like someone who feels more strongly about her orientation (and general desire for sex and companionship) than she does about her gender identity. Bruce was a former Olympic athlete could get chicks anytime he wanted. Caitlyn has trouble attracting lesbians.

Great points. I think we all assume that dischordant gender identity is all consuming when (perhaps, unfortuntely, after transition) other factors end up being important. Sure there may be some mistrust in Caitlyn's case, on the 'progressive' side borne of disdain for her Republican politics, and on the GOP side from a refusal of some members of that tribe to accept that 'transgender' is a thing.

[+ stevenkesslar]

This discussion reflects a pretty complex reality, and so it seems we are all partly right to me: yes, this comes off as drama queen bullshit, and yes, as Fresh Fluff states, it is nonetheless authentic drama.

 

Here's an anecdote to take it off Caitlyn. I visited one of my brothers and his wife years ago who are very socially liberal and who are totally cool with me being Gay, right after they'd spent several days with a friend who brought along a transgendered friend. The jist of what they said is that this individual seemed like a fucked up mess - depressed, almost suicidal - and they really felt uncomfortable spending time together. I've heard similar stories about "normal" meaning not famous transgendered people from others, although in my brother's case I know for sure it is not reflective of some conservative, anti-LGBT bias. As Fresh Fluff states I think the whole point is that these individuals are likely to have a rough time of it, regardless of what they do. This is true whether you are rich and famous like Bruce/Caitlyn or just a run of the day schmuck who lots of people view as a freak.

 

So on the one hand I don't feel particularly sympathetic to Caitlyn for sounding like a confused mess, and I can see how opponents of LGBT rights can use this to whip up backlash. And on the other hand the fact that she is rich and famous doesn't preclude her from being human. And it does expose the internal emotional turmoil she feels, even if it does it through a Kartrashian/reality tv lens. It's both a step forward and a step backward, and you can honestly debate which step is the bigger one in the long run. My main point in bringing up Bob Paris, imperfect as the comparison was, is that I think in the long run it was a step forward, not back.

 

In an interview he did with Oprah Paris talked openly about the huge internal pressure he felt to make the relationship with Jackson work, even though he eventually knew inside that they were very different, mismatched people. It also brings to mind the thing that made Selma so interesting: it's goal was to present MLK as a flawed individual who just happened to be a leader of historic significance. I don't see any hard lines of right or wrong, and you also have to factor in that "identity politics" is inherently somewhat more subjective than, for example, whether Blacks have a right to vote or use the same bathrooms as Whites. So Caitlyn putting her subjective stuff out there actually sort of fits with the issue.

[sincitymix]

For me, at this point, its all about TRUST, and I don't trust her, anything she says or anything she stands for. I feel she actually set the trans cause back, with all her hesitation, doubt and confusion. Caitlyn needed to get all her psychological issues out of the way before undergoing this journey. With all her pre-testing, they apparently MISSED something: that she wasn't fully ready or committed to the change... I believe her mission was clouded by "money", which is basically the story of the entire Kardashian empire.... Shameful...

I thought one was required to undergo 1 year of psychological counseling AND one year of living fully as a woman and receiving vocal training and a life coach before they could.. never mind.. that's for when you want to transition with the sex reassignment surgery. Caitlyn hasn't had that yet.