Way to detect frauds

[Talso85]

Perhaps because of the advent of communication technology, there are ever increasing ways in which the guy you meet is not the one you expected from the photos you’ve seen. Even verification methods such as requesting unique selfies and/or having a pre-meeting Facetime/Skype conversation are not identifying the frauds. And not everyone meets a new guy at the local Starbucks. Here are just a few examples, many in just the past few days:

 

—After using two verification methods, the guy who showed up was not the one anticipated: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/even-with-verification-bait-switch-still-exists.113730/

 

—This traveling escort’s photos catch the eye. He shows up in different cities and changes his profile name periodically. But someone actually met him, and someone else in this forum identified some of the photos as taken from other sources. The guy who shows up bears no resemblance to his photos (see comment #6): http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/411-mascfitstud.109614/#post-1026046

 

—About a year ago, a member went to meet “Davon Coxx” whose ad he saw on Backpage. The member ended up “running for his life” - http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/i-had-to-run-for-my-life-tonight.103396. Lo’ and behold, “Davon” has been showing up all over the country on Backpage, for example even today in Manhattan: http://manhattan.backpage.com/MaleEscorts/real-ad-100-top-notch-companion-vip-escort-davon-coxx-super-dominant/60626138 . He’s also been on M4RN. Always the same photos, same description. I suspect this guy who has also been showing up recently in Backpage is another “bait” profile possibly from the same source as Davon: http://manhattan.backpage.com/MaleEscorts/hung-masc-daddy-damion-in-town-calling-all-sub-bottoms/68206540 .

 

These are just a few examples of many. Notwithstanding general impressions, the source, be it Rentmen, M4RN, Backpage, etc., does not matter. The possibility of fraud is present on all sites. The source does not necessarily impart credibility. And from the numerous, valiant and persistent attempts by members to alert the sites to proven and documentable fraud, it is clear that the sites have no interest or incentive in addressing this issue. In fact they may knowingly be permissive of it.

 

It appears that there are four types of fraud going on here:

 

1) Simple Misrepresentation - An escort/masseur himself posts fake photos because the photos look better than he does, or are eye catching. (A widespread example of this is the numerous spa ads with photos of [usually] very hot Asian guys who look nothing like the actual masseurs.). Notwithstanding his fraudulent appearance, he does show up with the intention of fulfilling the escort/massage session. The most benign outcome here is client disappointment, whether or not he goes through with the session or not. The worst outcome is that the client, once he meets the escort, tells him to leave (or leaves himself) and the escort becomes agitated or threatening.

 

2) Fictitious representation - There is no escort/masseur. The profile is created in an attempt to get money out of the client, via credit card, travel expenses, etc. The only negative consequence here is that the client loses money and/or reveals personal information.

 

3) Bait-and-Switch with Verification - Like the first example above, the guy is real and can send the client a unique selfie and/or have a Facetime/Skype session to prove that he is real. When the client goes to meet the escort, it is not the person with whom he communicated. The most benign consequence for the client is that he’s disappointed - whether or not he goes through with the session. IMHO, this scheme probably has the most potential of growing exponentially in the near future. The Baiter, the hot guy in the ad who goes through the verification process can post ads all over the country and in each place have a “Switch” guy to go meet the client. If the client pays, then the Baiter and Switcher split the money.

 

4) Bait-and-Rob (with or without verification) - This works like Bait-and-Switch, the difference being that the Switcher steals or even worse, the Switcher is a bunch of thugs who are laying in wait to physically rob - and quite potentially injure - the client. This is the scenario mentioned above regarding Davon Coxx. This category is obviously the most dangerous.

 

The forum is an invaluable resource to identify frauds of any category before meeting or handing over money. From members who have actually met the guys, to amazing internet sleuths, to members with uncanny intuition, the “collective” has uncovered many of the frauds and fakes. What seems to be missing is some central repository of known, identified frauds. Since they change phone numbers, names, photos, locations so easily, over time it is just going to become more difficult to find them by using the search function in the forum. (Fortunately they do not possess much literary creativity such that they tend to simply copy profile descriptions over and over again, making it easier to identify them.).

 

Nonetheless, I wondered if it possible in the forum to create one list of known frauds and known fraudulent data (i.e., photos, numbers, etc.). The structure of the forums doesn’t lend itself to static pages. But perhaps it can be done with Daddy’s help and approval. Perhaps a group of old-timers - well established members can oversee it and make the determination when there’s sufficient evidence to classify someone - a person, photo, number - as a fraud.

 

There’s so much to discuss on the forum about collective experiences with real escorts and masseurs not to mention the fun factor in doing so. It’s a shame that we are getting increasingly distracted by uncovering frauds, not to mention the damage and potential damage to clients falling victim to scams. Of course we will continue to uncover them in the forum through queries about individuals we find. But once we’ve identified a fraud, couldn’t the info be placed in one central list that can be checked? On the positive end of things, we review authentic escorts and place those reviews on Daddy’s Reviews in a central, easy-to-find repository. But rather than “reviews,” can’t we create a central “dumping ground” to list and describe the frauds? Perhaps once properly identified, there could a separate forum in addition to “Deli”, “Spa”, etc., like “Cesspool.” (Maybe even run a contest for the best name of this section).

 

As we’ve seen recently, even the technology-based verification systems fail. And no one can stop the fraud attempts. But a smart, easily searchable repository of frauds will, in time, potentially slow it down and more importantly will certainly decrease the incidence of client-side negative experiences. We certainly can’t rely on law enforcement or the site owners to monitor this.

 

Not sure how all this would work, but wanted to throw out the idea and get your thoughts and feedback. I’ll post this in the Deli section even though it’s just as relevant for the Spa section. At the same time, there should be just one discussion of the topic. Is it possible to have one thread running in multiple sections?

 

Thanks to all. Sorry for the length but it’s not a simple topic. Looking forward to reading your creative ideas which - I am sure - will be interspersed with your usual wit and humor.

[jojo]

Would be nice to have a forum established to indentify frauds and/or thieves.

[liubit]

Congratulations, @Talso85, on an excellent, thoughtful, clear and impeccably written post. The idea of a dedicated forum section deserves careful consideration by Daddy and the Administrators.

[Jeffro]

I've only been here a few days but am really glad I found this forum. I've already gotten useful information on several guys who are posting false or misleading profiles. The "cesspool" seems like a good idea. I suppose there might be gray areas here and there- due more to client-escort miscommunication or mismatch- but there's definitely a need for a hall of shame/ hall of infamy for gross misrepresentation and fraud, where bad actors can be catalogued with their aliases and MO, that is easily searchable.

[Jock123]

I think this goes both ways.

 

I read Time and Time again on here How an Escort is a "Fraud, Thief, never showed Up" etc etc etc And SO many are quick to throw Said Escort under the bus.

 

 

However we need some Accountability with Clients as well. I've made a shit ton of Posts recently about the Odd Experiences I've encountered. Us Escorts put up with alot of shit. And while MOST Clients have the best Intentions You do have those few who take Trolling to a whole new level. Here are just a FEW of said shitty Client Experiences

 

http://m4m-forum.org/threads/hypocrisy.113712/#post-1087989

 

http://m4m-forum.org/threads/am-i-missing-something.113551/page-3#post-1085982

 

http://m4m-forum.org/threads/being-stood-up-multiple-times.108947/

 

http://m4m-forum.org/threads/clients-who-post-bogus-reviews.107971/

[Talso85]

I think this goes both ways

 

It goes way more than both ways. There are a multitude of manipulations, lies, deceit, et. al. on all sides: escorts, clients, online site owners, et. al. And that is one of the many great uses of this forum, a use Jock123 has deftly exercised in the compelling posts he cited above.

 

My posting here addresses only ONE very precisely defined issue that is actionable: the escort and his photos are not the same person. And now with the advent of certain technologies, this specific issue is taking on new dimensions.

 

So I would respectfully ask that this issue not be diluted by a compendium of other malfeasances out there, nor made uncontrollable through the claim of "balance." Varying issues can and should all be addressed separately - one by one. Otherwise there will chaos. For one I'd be happy to read about negative experiences with clients from the escort's perspective . Please, just not in this thread.

[Jeffro]

think this goes both ways.

 

Undoubtedly. I can only imagine the stuff guys deal with in this industry. And client bad-actors are impossible to track, I would think.

[Jock123]

So I would respectfully ask that this issue not be diluted by a compendium of other malfeasances out there, nor made uncontrollable through the claim of "balance." Varying issues can and should all be addressed separately - one by one. Otherwise there will chaos. For one I'd be happy to read about negative experiences with clients from the escort's perspective . Please, just not in this thread.

 

According to your profile It says You joined a Month ago. As the saying goes "You must be new here". Ive been here for roughly a Year now and You will learn very Quickly that EVERY thread Is "All over the place" And not sometimes not at all even related to the OP topic.

 

 

I also find it strange that You have commented on MANY 411 Posts of having either Bad Experiences or "They werent as Advertised".....But I wont give my 2 Cents on my thoughts On that(I'm Staying Positive Today...For now)

 

 

I can DIRECTLY Understand the frustration of meeting someone whose Pictures arent Accurate. Ive met MANY Clients whom told me of their Bad Experiences...and Ultimately most of Us Escorts Pay for Said Clients Bad Experiences In the past In some way. HOWEVER My point is You are Insinuating there should be MORE done to "Detect Frauds". Clients already have the luxury of Google Picture Searches, Client Posted Reviews etc etc etc. My Argument is I can gurantee You Escorts deal with ALOT more BS. And there should be absolutely be a "Balance".

 

After all where does an Escort go to "Verify" the legitimacy of a client.

[Jock123]

Maybe you can start a client review site and you can bitch and complain about clients to your little hearts

 

 

Already In the works bud. However this is coming from a Guy who GLEEFULLY posted how he Enjoyed being Robbed by one of His Escorts.

 

 

Jock123 is sassy

 

 

http://media.tumblr.com/59f986931eff65fc911d7eb15ddb4248/tumblr_inline_mv3oh42ovs1rbsj3j.gif

[Talso85]

To all here, on both sides of this contrived aisle, please just stop.

 

Re-read original posting and let's take it from there. Thank you.

[Jock123]

Your true colors shine through quite clearly here.

 

SIR. You REALLY need to do some Research on everything I've ever said on here before commenting on my Character. Then get back to me on my "True Colors"

 

 

This went from Me Suggesting there be a way to EXPOSE Shitty Clients as Well as Escorts. I have no problem "Verifying" myself when Contacted In my Ad. Additionally MOST of my Bookings end up In Overnights, Multiple Days or at the LEAST a repeat Encounter. So I cant be That "Bad"

[Talso85]

This thread has been co-opted. Anyone who reads the original posting and then follows the comments will likely just click off.

 

As the thread author, I'd like to request to close the thread. Even I have lost interest. I'll re-post it in the future.

[+ saminseattle]

Talso: I do wish people would be more polite to each other, but this dust-up is not the worst I’ve seen around here, and I, for one, think it’s a topic worthy of more discussion. I certainly appreciate how cogently you’ve laid out the issues. But because of the importance of discretion and anonymity in this world, it seems like it would be very hard for anyone without direct, personal experience (including of course website administrators) to be truly certain that the person who is allegedly using pictures of someone else is actually doing so. For example, what if the person claiming to be “scammed” is actually a scammer himself and is making false accusations? He may be a conniving competitor, someone with a grudge, or possibly someone with some sort of personality disorder. With all due respect to my forum-mates, I don’t think any of this is unheard of. I'm told that some people even make up multiple identities to stir up trouble.

 

I suppose you could ask for a Skype session or an ID to try to verify, but that wouldn’t necessarily catch the bait-and-switch actor, and many legitimate actors may be reluctant to do this anyway, particularly after the Government’s seizure of personal information in the RB matter.

 

People can also be quite adept at generating fake IDs. There were a few threads on these issues awhile back involving a “Sean Andrew” and someone else named “Robby.” RM actually took down Robby’s ad based on some clever detective work from Steven Kessler, but Seandrew (as he goes by now) somehow verified his ID with them and was able to keep advertising. http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/yet-another-fake-ad-on-rentmen.108377/, http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/this-traveling-pack-has-me-concerned.108007/

 

I guess what I’m saying is that I think this will always be a somewhat “risky business” for everyone involved and the best that people can do is try to mitigate those risks by doing their homework and taking reasonable precautions. Perhaps a separate page would make this homework easier, but I suppose that depends on whether the moderators think it’s a good idea. It could be a lot of work, and once a genuine fraud has been identified, couldn’t he just change his pictures/names/phone number anyway?

[Jock123]

This thread has been co-opted. Anyone who reads the original posting and then follows the comments will likely just click off.

 

As the thread author, I'd like to request to close the thread. Even I have lost interest. I'll re-post it in the future.

 

My Apologies @Talso85 for it wasnt my Intention to "Divert" this thread to a completely Different topic. You made some really great points and at the end of the day we would ALL Benefit if Escorts were whom they said they were.

 

<--- This guy just needs a Drink...or 5. I've not had he best week but I have to keep Reminding myself that MOST people I have met have been Amazing.

 

My Apologies again.

 

[Talso85]

@Jock123 Okay. I'm sure everyone here will appreciate your contrition as well as your recognition and acknowledgement that weeding out the frauds among escorts is in the best interests of not only the clients but also of the escorts.

 

As for the thread, it's up to others to continue it or not.