Karen Carpenter's 2nd Lost Solo Album

[MrMiniver]

I was born in 1943. My parents usually took me to childens' films or westerns. But, I remember seeing a musical, either "Easter Parade" (1948) or "Annie Get Your Gun" (1950). They has good intention, but I hated the film.

 

It was probably "Annie Get Your Gun" because I really hate that film even now, and they may have rightfully thought it was ok for 7-year old.

 

Mr. Miniver, you would be shocked at how many film musicals I have never seen. It took me 40 years to watch the film version of "The Sound of Music," and I only watched it once.

 

You're missing out. The Sound of Music definitely improves on the stage play while Annie Get Your Gun is truly awful. Betty Hutton is so over-the-top that she makes Merman look sedate. That one is a real mess.

 

Film musicals are one of the delights of the genre, I wouldn't miss them. Although the last good one was, what something like 30 or 40 or 50 years ago?

[+ WilliamM]

You're missing out

 

I saw "The Sound of Music" and "Gypsy" on Broadway with the original cast. Agree about the film version of TSOM. although I greatly miss the songs that were not included. Once was enough for the film; I kept comparing the staging of the songs with Broadway winning except for the one song.

 

I believe you are confusing what became the public image of Merman with her actual stage performances.

[MrMiniver]

I saw "The Sound of Music" and "Gypsy" on Broadway with the original cast. Agree about the film version of TSOM. although I greatly miss the songs that were not included. Once was enough for the film; I kept comparing the staging of the songs with Broadway winning except for the one song.

 

I believe you are confusing what became the public image of Merman with her actual stage performances.

 

I don't understand your comment about Merman at all. As for Sound of Music, I think the movie improves on the stage show in just about EVERY RESPECT. And I could never understand watching the stage show how the Captain could look like Maria's son and Maria looked like a middle-aged nun, not a novice! That show was a real mess.

[+ WilliamM]

That show was a real mess.

 

It was very difficult to get tickets for TSOM when Mary Martin spent two years playing Maria. So ticket buyers did not agree with you. Did you see Merman in "Gypsy," or Martin in "The Sound of Music"? It is not clear from your post. If you did not see TSOM, how can you say it was a mess?

 

Martin was in TSOM on Broadway from 1959 to 1961.

[MrMiniver]

It was very difficult to get tickets for TSOM when Mary Martin spent two years playing Maria. So ticket buyers did not agree with you. Did you see Merman in "Gypsy," or Martin in "The Sound of Music"? It is not clear from your post. If you did not see TSOM, how can you say it was a mess?

 

Martin was in TSOM on Broadway from 1959 to 1961.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with ticket buyers agreeing or not agreeing with me. People loved Martin, including me, that doesn't mean they thought she was remotely believable as a 18 year old nun when she was middle-aged. I did see the original TSOM, I didn't see the original Gypsy. My parents wouldn't have taken me to it as they would have considered it too "adult" for me.

 

I knew Merman very well for around 10 years before her death. Hutton made her look medicated.

[+ WilliamM]

Good for you, Mr. Miniver. I grew up outside of Boston, so TSOM was only my third Broadway show in NYC.

 

Did you see "Together on Broadway" with Merman and Martin? I did not.

 

William

[MrMiniver]

I saw Martin in "TSOM" and then "I Do I Do." I saw Merman in the revival of Annie Get Your Gun and the last performances of Hello, Dolly. Also saw her many times in concert performances she gave throughout the 1970s. Dynamic amazing performer.

[+ WilliamM]

Ethel Merman's performance in "Gypsy" was one of the best I have ever seen on Broadway. I saw "Gypsy" fifty-five years ago, but it seems like just yesterday.

 

I only had one conversation with Martin without someone close by to protect her. She had strong opinions, and did not mind a difference of opinion with a fan. I do understand her need to be protected when she was performing 8 shows a week. I do not remember anyone ever saying that she walked through a performance.

 

Mr. Miniver, I am jealous that you knew Ethel Merman so well.

[MrMiniver]

Ethel Merman's performance in "Gypsy" was one of the best I have ever seen on Broadway. I saw "Gypsy" fifty-five years ago, but it seems like just yesterday.

 

I only had one conversation with Martin without someone close by to protect her. She had strong opinions, and did not mind a difference of opinion with a fan. I do understand her need to be protected when she was performing 8 shows a week. I do not remember anyone ever saying that she walked through a performance.

 

Mr. Miniver, I am jealous that you knew Ethel Merman so well.

 

It is interesting that I think Martin was tougher than her public persona and that Merman was probably not as brassy as her public persona (although don't get me wrong she was a tough lady but could be shy as well). I'm not sure either could be a star today but especially not Martin. What I think Martin had (since her voice wasn't much to speak of) was love. She radiated love from the stage and that really translated to audiences of her time. I don't think most theater goers today care about that.

 

I would have killed to see GYPSY. I've seen a couple clips and I know that someone has a complete performance that was filmed (crudely) but will probably never ever see the light of day. When my mother died, I toyed with the idea of putting "she wouldn't take me to GYPSY" on her headstone

[+ WilliamM]

I'm not sure either could be a star today but especially not Martin. What I think Martin had (since her voice wasn't much to speak of) was love

 

For an outsiders like me, I believe that Martin thought more about things like her clothes and appearance in general than Merman, especially as they both got older. Martin also had a husband (Richard Halliday) who occasionally seemed more interesting in her career than Mary was herself.

 

I do agree that Martin was not a natural like Merman. Merman would have been the best at almost anything she wanted to do.

[MrMiniver]

For an outsiders like me, I believe that Martin thought more about things like her clothes and appearance in general than Merman, especially as they both got older. Martin also had a husband (Richard Halliday) who occasionally seemed more interesting in her career than Mary was herself.

 

I do agree that Martin was not a natural like Merman. Merman would have been the best at almost anything she wanted to do.

 

I think one of the biggest losses for the theater was that Merman never did a straight play. That would have been interesting. I know she was offered several including Mother Courage but really didn't think it was her bailiwick. I think she was wrong. She could have been excellent but we'll never know.

 

I remember having dinner with Martin, Halliday, and Janet Gaynor one night and it was very interesting ... but I'll save that one for my memoirs.

 

I remember that comment about Martin (it may have been said by Robert Preston) that "she gives you the impression that you couldn't possibly love her as much as she loves you." That's the gift she had for audiences.

[+ WilliamM]

I remember having dinner with Martin, Halliday, and Janet Gaynor one night and it was very interesting ... but I'll save that one for my memoirs.

 

It was John Raitt, not Robert Preston.

 

As to your "...but I'll save that one for my memoirs," I have to be blunt, surprise me with at least one story from that dinner. I am not challenging your relationships. but you have not written anything that I did not already know. Even your comment about Merman being shy was written years ago in one of the first biography after Merman died. And in one interview Ethel gave her reason for not wanting to do "Mother Courage": "I want to do happy things, not sad."

[MrMiniver]

It was John Raitt, not Robert Preston.

 

As to your "...but I'll save that one for my memoirs," I have to be blunt, surprise me with at least one story from that dinner. I am not challenging your relationships. but you have not written anything that I did not already know. Even your comment about Merman being shy was written years ago in one of the first biography after Merman died. And in one interview Ethel gave her reason for not wanting to do "Mother Courage": "I want to do happy things, not sad."

 

I looked it up. It was said by many different people over a number of years including Robert Preston.

 

Sorry, I'm not going to satisfy your curiosity because there'd be no point. Based on that above I'm guessing you'd say "oh, I heard that one a long time ago." I don't see it as my job to prove myself to anonymous people on the internet. I could do the same thing to you, but, you know what? I couldn't care less.

[+ WilliamM]

Sorry, I'm not going to satisfy your curiosity because there'd be no point. Based on that above I'm guessing you'd say "oh, I heard that one a long time ago."

 

The "shy" comment was first mentioned in print on Page 186 of Bob Thomas's "I Got Rhythum!" (1985)

 

I heard John Raitt make the comment you mentioned a) at a concert at The Academy of Music" in Philadelphia with Mary in May or June, 1982; b) Raitt repeated the comment in a TV Performance at the White House from the early 80s, after Philadelphia. As you know Mary was injured in a terrible car accident in Sept. 1982, so it may, or may not have been, just before the accident, or a year later

 

As far as saying, "oh, I heard that one a long time ago." I have always been honest on this site. I have no reason to discredit you. I have already said many times that it's good to have you back, Mr. Miniver

[JDXXX]

Somehow along the way we loss touch on focusing on Miss Carpenter guys. LOL.

[+ imagooddog]

Somehow along the way we loss touch on focusing on Miss Carpenter guys. LOL.

The Carpenters were wonderful.....Karen and her brother made beautiful music and some of my favorite songs. I have listened to their

albums over and over during the years. It was so sad that she died as she did.

[MrMiniver]

I absolutely love the Carpenters. They are vastly underrated. And it always saddens me how many young gay men today have no idea who they are.

[JDXXX]

The Carpenters were wonderful.....Karen and her brother made beautiful music and some of my favorite songs. I have listened to their

albums over and over during the years. It was so sad that she died as she did.

 

They sure did make beautiful music together which is why I adore them quite highly.

 

I can see a lot of myself in Karen as far as personality wise. She seemed like a wonderful lady, and an outstanding fun person. I will admit she will always be terribly missed, but her music will live on.

 

However, through her music, the memories of her legacy will forever live on. She may not be with us physically, but spiritually she's still in our hearts. .

 

I absolutely love the Carpenters. They are vastly underrated. And it always saddens me how many young gay men today have no idea who they are.

 

Saddens me too of her tragic death which is ashame to say the most.

 

She indeed had one of the most beautiful angelic voices in the world, and that's a voice you can have NOTHING but the best appreciation for. .