Rentboy May Be Gone But We Won Another Marriage Victory!!

[AdamSmith]

...An attorney says the Kentucky clerk who won't issue marriage licenses and all her deputy clerks have been called for a federal court hearing Thursday morning.

 

Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins says the federal court alerted him that a hearing is scheduled for 11 a.m. Thursday in Ashland.

 

Watkins says clerk Kim Davis is summonsed to attend, along with all the deputy clerks who work in her office...

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4432092615494d229e78c5ce5ab0c930/latest-no-marriage-licenses-kentucky-clerks-office

[+ quoththeraven]

Does anyone think the 6th Circuit Court Of Appeals envisioned that their rejection of Obergefell would lead to the case being accepted by SCOTUS-or that if it was accepted by SCOTUS, that SCOTUS would find for the plaintiffs leading to legalization of same sex marriage nationwide?

 

What do our lawyers think?

 

Gman

 

The answer to both questions is YES. The 6th Circiut's Obergefell decision caused a split in the circuits, which is one of the main reasons for the Supreme Court to grant review. All the other decisions had gone the other way. Given prior decisions, especially the one on DOMA, the outcome at the Supreme Court should not have been a surprise.

 

Irrespective of how courts feel about decisions of courts higher than them, they have an obligation to enforce them. That includes ordering issuance of marriage licenses in places that have stopped issuing them altogether as well as ones that are only refusing to issue them to same-sex couples.

[Reluctant Daddy]

https://twitter.com/WSAZDanGriffin/status/638732795381182465/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

No Women Behind Bars for Mrs. Davis

[+ Gar1eth]

The answer to both questions is YES. The 6th Circiut's Obergefell decision caused a split in the circuits, which is one of the main reasons for the Supreme Court to grant review. All the other decisions had gone the other way. Given prior decisions, especially the one on DOMA, the outcome at the Supreme Court should not have been a surprise.

 

I knew this. But then it's an interesting conundrum. I mean the 6th Court didn't act in a vacuum. They knew what had been decided in the other circuits. They knew if they found against the plaintiffs in Obergefell that the case would most likely be taken up by SCOTUS. And if as you say, they knew *SCOTUS would overrule them-then while they would have registered their opinion, in the end result it was likely that would hasten same sex marriage being implemented throughout the United States.

 

*I'm not a legal scholar. But I was deathly afraid that SCOTUS would vote against Obergefell. If Kennedy had decided differently or just couldn't stomach it, we wouldn't be here today. After all if SCOTUS could declare a corporation a person, there's no telling what other madness it could decide.

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

https://twitter.com/WSAZDanGriffin/status/638732795381182465/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

No Women Behind Bars for Mrs. Davis

 

That link didn't work for me.

 

G

[+ quoththeraven]

I knew this. But then it's an interesting conundrum. I mean the 6th Court didn't act in a vacuum. They knew what had been decided in the other circuits. They knew if they found against the plaintiffs in Obergefell that the case would most likely be taken up by SCOTUS. And if as you say, they knew *SCOTUS would overrule them-then while they would have registered their opinion, in the end result it was likely that would hasten same sex marriage being implemented throughout the United States.

 

*I'm not a legal scholar. But I was deathly afraid that SCOTUS would vote against Obergefell. If Kennedy had decided differently or just couldn't stomach it, we wouldn't be here today. After all if SCOTUS could declare a corporation a person, there's no telling what other madness it could decide.

 

Gman

 

Perhaps the Sixth Circuit majority didn't want to make the decision on their own and preferred to "kick it upstairs," so to speak.

[Reluctant Daddy]

That link didn't work for me.

 

Apologies. Fumbling on the forum - can we upload a jpg?

[+ Gar1eth]

Apologies. Fumbling on the forum - can we upload a jpg?

Yes. But only from the website itself. And some websites allow you to and some don't. You have to click on the portrait icon in the header of this thread posting box and enter the address for the picture. You can also upload YouTube videos by doing the same with the film icon.

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

Perhaps the Sixth Circuit majority didn't want to make the decision on their own and preferred to "kick it upstairs," so to speak.

 

You mean voting against Obergefell with the expectations that would lead to SCOTUS taking the case and finding for the plaintiffs? Very Machiavellian.

 

Gman

[Reluctant Daddy]

Can't seem to link to it, but the long and short of it is that the last page of the motion contains the following:

 

"Plaintiffs do not seek to compel Davis’ compliance through incarceration. Since

Defendant Davis continues to collect compensation from the Commonwealth for duties

she fails to perform, Plaintiffs urge the the Court to impose financial penalties sufficiently

serious and increasingly onerous to compel Davis’ immediate compliance without further

delay."

[+ Gar1eth]

Can't seem to link to it, but the long and short of it is that the last page of the motion contains the following:

 

"Plaintiffs do not seek to compel Davis’ compliance through incarceration. Since

Defendant Davis continues to collect compensation from the Commonwealth for duties

she fails to perform, Plaintiffs urge the the Court to impose financial penalties sufficiently

serious and increasingly onerous to compel Davis’ immediate compliance without further

delay."

 

 

They could do both. Otherwise people are bound to donate money to her cause, and it won't bother her at all.

 

Gman

[rguer]

They could do both. Otherwise people are bound to donate money to her cause, and it won't bother her at all.

Jail would make her a martyr.

[Epigonos]

Rguer you're right but she would be a martyr but only to a small group of religious idiots and frankly that's just fine with me. I'd like to she her fined an amount equal to her $80,000.00 yearly salary and then have the court put her ass in a jail cell until she agreed to either resign from office of start issuing marriage licenses. Yes you're right I'm fully and happily capable of being a vindictive S.O.B.

[+ Gar1eth]

Jail would make her a martyr.

 

Rguer you're right but she would be a martyr only to a small group of religious idiots and frankly that's just fine with me. I'd like to she her fined an amount equal to her $80,000.00 yearly salary and then have the court put her ass in a jail cell until she agreed to either resign from office of start issuing marriage licenses. Yes you're right I'm fully and happily capable of being a vindictive S.O.B.

 

I'm good with her being a martyr too. In my case it's not because I'm an SOB-I just want to give her what she so desperately wants. I guess I'm an enabler. :D

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

Judge Bunning has ordered her and all her staff to his court on Thursday. I wonder if Liberty Counsel will be representing all of them. They've done such a great job for Kim so far.

 

Gman

[Greathands]

I guess I'm really naive on this cause I just don't get all the hoopla.

 

She is a government employee, whose job is to to give marriage licenses to those who meet the legal criteria. She's not being asked to marry them.

 

Although I would disagree with her, I would better understand her dilemma if she was being forced to marry someone. But she's not.

 

If she worked for the department of motor vehicles, would she deny giving a driver's permit to someone she thought shouldn't be driving ... even if they met the legal criteria? I doubt it.

 

Introducing the faith issue in this circumstance is making this a lot more difficult than it should, or needs, to be.

[+ Gar1eth]

I guess I'm really naive on this cause I just don't get all the hoopla.

 

She is a government employee, whose job is to to give marriage licenses to those who meet the legal criteria. She's not being asked to marry them.

 

Although I would disagree with her, I would better understand her dilemma if she was being forced to marry someone. But she's not.

 

If she worked for the department of motor vehicles, would she deny giving a driver's permit to someone she thought shouldn't be driving ... even if they met the legal criteria? I doubt it.

 

Introducing the faith issue in this circumstance is making this a lot more difficult than it should, or needs, to be.

The licenses have her name/seal on them with what I gather is a statement saying she approves the license. She feels she can't in conscience do that because of her religion. Now she also says she doesn't believe same sex marriages are marriages.

 

I could put forth the argument that she is putting her signature on a meaningless document then, so it shouldn't matter if she signs a meaningless document. But she apparently isn't that logical.

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

U.S. News And World Report:

 

 

 

http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/b973892/2147483647/resize/640x/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2Fdb%2F21%2F5d832f024655965d00117aaa54b2%2F150901-editorial.jpg

Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, right, is pictured at her office in Morehead, Ky., on Tuesday.

 

 

Kentucky Clerk Fighting Gay Marriage Has Wed Four Times

A fellow gay marriage-resisting county clerk says 'that's forgivable.'

 

By Steven Nelson

 

The Kentucky county clerk facing potentially stiff penalties for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses has been married four times, raising questions of hypocrisy and selective application of the Bible to her life.

 

The marriages are documented in court records obtained by U.S. News, which show that Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis divorced three times, first in 1994, then 2006 and again in 2008.

 

She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing her first husband. They were fathered by her third husband but adopted by her second. Davis worked at the clerk's office at the time of each divorce and has since remarried.

 

Davis has described her desire to strictly adhere to the Bible in stark terms and thus far has shown no sign of bending to court orders on same-sex marriage. She said Tuesday she fears going to hell for violating "a central teaching" of the Bible if she complies with the orders.

 

 

Davis' struggle to exempt herself from the Supreme Court's June decision legalizing same-sex marriage has excited some Christian conservatives but legally has proven futile: The Supreme Court refused her request Monday that the justices intervene, and a federal judge will decide Thursday whether to hold her in contempt.

 

[FLASHBACK: Ky. Bill Proposes Bounty on Catching Trans Kid in 'Wrong' Bathroom]

 

Davis’ divorce records, in the meantime, are a “popular file” at the local courthouse, a woman who answered the phone tells U.S. News, as bloggers and social media users titter with accusations of hypocrisy.

 

The matter first attracted public attention in July, when WKYT-TV reporter Victor Puente made a passing on-air reference to the fact that Davis’ latest marriage certificate shows she was married four times. Davis’ office stores that document.

 

Davis did not respond to an emailed request for comment, and her office’s phone line was busy throughout the day Tuesday.

 

The leader of the organization providing her legal representation, Mat Staver of Liberty Counsel, says he’s not sure precisely how many husbands Davis has had, but that it's not relevant.

 

“I know she was married more than once – I’ve heard three [times],” he says. “It’s a matter of fact that she’s been married multiple times.”

 

[READ: Polyamorous Rights Advocates See Marriage Equality Coming for Them]

 

Staver says “it’s not really relevant, it’s something that happened in her past” and that her conversion to Christianity about four years ago wiped her slate clean. “It’s something that’s not relevant to the issue at hand,” he says. “She was 180 degrees changed.”

 

In a Tuesday statement released by Liberty Counsel, Davis admitted she had lived an imperfect life, but insisted her current beliefs are sincere.

 

“It is not a light issue for me,” she said. “It is a heaven or hell decision.”

 

Three other Kentucky county clerks have expressed opposition to facilitating same-sex marriages, and one of them says Davis’ divorces in no way diminish her credibility.

 

Casey County Clerk Casey Davis, who is not related to Kim Davis, tells U.S. News he believes there’s a difference between getting a divorce and then repenting and living in a same-sex relationship.

 

[ALSO: Conservative Churches Confront New Reality on Gay Marriage]

 

“I don’t have any problem with that whatever, how she was before. If the Lord can forgive her, surely I can,” he says. “That’s something that’s forgivable just like any other sin, but if you continue in it and live in it, there’s a grave danger in that.”

 

Casey Davis says he wasn’t personally aware Kim Davis had been divorced and that he has no desire to speak with her about that. “You know this, people will say everything and all this stuff, they want to bring the worst out in the best of people. Obviously it’s human nature. I don’t like it and no one should,” he says.

 

The Casey County clerk currently is riding a bicycle across Kentucky to raise attention to the issue and wants Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear to call a special session of the state legislature to pass a law allowing local clerks to play no role officiating marriages and make their role mere record keeping.

 

Staver says other possible avenues include the state centralizing marriage issuance or allowing marriages to be performed without attaching the names of county clerks.

 

But there’s no sign that will happen, and Staver acknowledges it's impossible for clerks to hold out indefinitely against ruinous fines given for contempt.

 

[MORE: Pro-Gay, No Pay Bills Would Punish Officials Who Recognize Marriages]

 

The American Civil Liberties Union, which is advocating on behalf of a male same-sex couple repeatedly denied a marriage license by Kim Davis' office, is asking for fines significant enough to compel compliance.

 

Staver says supportive donors likely can extend Davis' resistance for at least some amount of time if fines are ordered Thursday.

 

Jail is also a possible tool to compel either her compliance or resignation.

 

http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/3c1c24a/2147483647/thumbnail/225x150/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2F68%2Fe8%2F2c8cab35477781883784e4d71750%2Fresizes%2F500%2Fthumb-3.jpg

SEE PHOTOS

 

Gay Marriage Cartoons

“We are not asking that she go to jail, and nobody wants her to go to jail. We simply want her to do her job and follow the rule of law," says Heather Weaver, an ACLU attorney working on the case.

 

Weaver says she knows nothing about Davis' personal life.

 

"What I would say is she's entitled to her personal religious beliefs, but she cannot impose them on others through her job as a public official," she says. "Those other clerks that are refusing to issue marriage licenses should re-evaluate their strategy. They may find themselves embroiled in a lawsuit and facing contempt charges."

 

Her colleague Casey Davis says he won’t comply or resign, perhaps making himself the next local official to be sued. But it hasn’t come to that in Casey County. His higher-profile colleague is “from a larger county. There are more people there that practice that lifestyle,” he says.

 

 

Gman

[Frequentflier]

It's hard to keep track of her trail without a scorecard. It's weird she is so judgmental about same sex marriage but hasn't or been pressured enough to address her less than pious relationships. Her religion apparently thinks her trail is ok?

 

I'm guessing our side said its not looking for jailing her in contempt to look like the more reasonable party but that's dumb. Had a gay person failed to issue a weapons permit due to personal religious beliefs, white trash would have overrun the office with machine guns, captured the employee and hung him out front. Sometime I think we enjoy sand or lower class status. And if "we" had ignored a Federal court ruling Davis would have handed the cops our new handcuffs. We'll see how much humor the Federal judge has for her behavior.

[AdamSmith]

On the other hand 'our' side saying we don't want her jailed certainly does not stay the court from ordering that.

 

In fact it strikes me as a bit Don't throw her in that briar patch!

[+ Gar1eth]

It's hard to keep track of her trail without a scorecard. It's weird she is so judgmental about same sex marriage but hasn't or been pressured enough to address her less than pious relationships. Her religion apparently thinks her trail is ok?

 

 

Original Sin posits that none of us are ok. Now that she has been saved-those former sins don't count in the eyes of her religion.

 

Gman

[+ sync]

The ball is in the court's court. Sadly, while I don't believe Ms. Davis is playing with a full deck, the court needs to send an unequivocal message.