Backpage is getting very scary

[Guy Fawkes]

Could you repeat that sir?

[AdamSmith]

What's the purpose of posting some pics on "what's available" on Backpage? It's not a guarantee that the person in the picture will show up.

 

I've had four occasions where the guy I hired turned out to be using someone else's pictures in his ads.

 

All those ads were on rentboy.com.

 

FWIW.

[+ stevenkesslar]

 

Bozo

 

Sorry. This is discriminatory. Why doesn't he want Bozo the Clown? Dude, I think the clowns of the world ought to feel offended.

[JDXXX]

Excuse me?...'White Thug?'...You are a great disappointment to me Mr. Kessler. You are not reading my posts. I clearly say in one that I am a man of color. My mother, God rest her soul, would role in her grave.

 

 

 

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't your analogy of the bathhouse scene, and walking away from someone because they have tattoos, directly contradict your previous argument about prejudging, of which you and JD became so Un-necessarily impassioned about? I believe it does...

 

So that's it from me...It's stunning in FTL today, so I'm off to see the Wizard. I'll catch ya on the flip flop, or at Flip Flops, whichever the case may be. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/yes.gif

 

Flip Flops in the Intra-coastal

 

 

JD is getting a headache here. Time to do something about it...........

 

 

http://watermarked.cutcaster.com/cutcaster-photo-100889360-man-with-a-gun-against-his-head.jpg

[+ stevenkesslar]

Excuse me?...'White Thug?'...You are a great disappointment to me Mr. Kessler. You are not reading my posts. I clearly say in one that I am a man of color. My mother, God rest her soul, would role in her grave.

 

Okay, BVB. I am calling you out. Let's get to the bottom of this. Which one of my clients are you?

 

I'm just another man of color, a tattooed thug, a thief, and yes a bit of a whore.

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/data/avatars/m/8/8655.jpg?1433284203

 

I did read what you said, and did note the words "man of color." Given your avatar, I thought your meaning was plain:

 

I thought you meant you are a white man who wears black glasses. That's why I called you a "white thug." I apologize if I was wrong.

 

Given what you said above, in protest, I am going to assume you mean you are not white, and perhaps you are mixed race.

 

So now we are going to do a quick group exercise in prejudging. I am going to ask everyone here to consider which of my clients you are.

 

1. Barack Obama

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/data/avatars/m/8/8655.jpg?1433284203 http://a5.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNzg5ODI4MTEw.jpg

 

Now, to state the obvious, the one huge difference is that the first guy on the left wears glasses, and my client on the right does not. The other subtle difference is the client on the right is considered "black," even though he is actually mixed race. I'm guessing this is not you. First, what you said above suggests, but does not state, that your mother would be rolling in her grave, because she is not white. My client's mother was white, and his father was African. Second, you admit to being a bit of a whore. That does describe this client of mine, at least insomuch as that he is a political whore. However, I just don't get the whole "tattooed, thuggy" thing from him. He's too nice of a guy, so it just can't be you, in my prejudgement.

 

or, 2. Warren Buffet

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/data/avatars/m/8/8655.jpg?1433284203 http://a4.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTE5NTU2MzE2MTY4Njg1MDY3.jpg

 

I'm guessing you are Warren. There's kind of a facial resemblance. Being as you are one of the richest guys in the world, I think that qualifies you as a thief, and since all Asians are money grubbers who make more money than white people, it wouldn't surprise me if your mother comes from China or something like that. So that would qualify you as a "man of color." Again, sorry for spilling the beans, but there is that "$" tattoo on your ass. And I can't tell you how many times when you slept in my arms I looked at your face and thought, "Fuck, this guy is so hot! He looks all thuggy and ghetto."

 

Now, I have to say, I agree with you. God bless your mother, because whatever you look like, and whether we come to find out you are Barack or Warren, we know for sure that you are a warm man, who bends over backward to be welcoming to guys like jawjateck and marylander, and we know you have a wicked sense of humor and a deep intellect. So I guess whether it turns out you are black or white or Chinese or whatever, the whole point maybe is to NOT prejudge people, but instead take the time to get to know them for the human being they are.

 

Then again, what would I know, I'm one of those pre-judging whores, as you called me out for.

 

Or, maybe not ............

[bostonman]

This pic just popped up on the Boston Backpage page.

 

http://boston.backpage.com/MaleEscorts/classifieds/EnlargeImage?oid=29916281&image=29916279

 

(Full ad: http://boston.backpage.com/MaleEscorts/always-hot-and-readythe-total-package/29916281)

[JDXXX]

Okay, BVB. I am calling you out. Let's get to the bottom of this. Which one of my clients are you?

 

Which bottom are we referring to??

[+ stevenkesslar]

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't your analogy of the bathhouse scene, and walking away from someone because they have tattoos, directly contradict your previous argument about prejudging, of which you and JD became so Un-necessarily impassioned about? I believe it does...

 

Okay, I will correct you, BVB. You're wrong. First, let's all review the Epigonos rule:

 

I certainly agree with Nvr2Thick when he states. “It is, however, certainly appropriate to talk about our preferred escort characteristics on a forum where we talk about escorts.”

 

However, over the years, on this site, there have been a multitude of threads highly critical of escorts who in their ads state that they won’t get together with old people, fat people or ethnic people. Should there be a different standard for clients?

 

A few Sundays ago I went to Mass with my Dad, and the witty priest told a joke at the end of his homily. It was about a pastor who gave a very moving homily that everybody loved. Then the next week, he delivered exactly the same homily. Everybody still liked it. Then the third week, he delivered exactly the same homily, and people started to wonder why. The fourth week, fifth week, sixth week, seventh week - exact same homily. People got increasingly upset, and started to openly wonder what the pastor was doing. Finally, somebody confronted him about whether he was going to give the same homily again in Week 8. His reply: "I sure am, and I'll keep giving it every week after that until you people finally get it!"

 

With that in mind, let's review the thug's picture and what I wrote:

 

http://images3.backpage.com/imager/u/large/172448287/IMG_0380.jpg

 

If you want to honestly know how I really feel, I hate tattoos and I think the guy in this picture looks like a Latino thug. I note that the guy who started this thread said he is Latino and he does not see this as being about race.

 

If I saw this guy in a bathhouse, you know what I would do? Keep my big mouth shut, turn around, and walk away. I'd be worried if I told him what I thought about how he looks, I might really have to worry about how I looked.

 

Maybe you spent a little bit too much time in the sun, today, BVB. You are normally smart as a whip, and today you actually do seem a little bit dense.

 

So I'll make it simple.

 

My point is not that it's wrong to pre-judge before you spend money on an escort. My point is that you should just keep your big god damn mouth shut about it. That is the core of the Epigonos rule. And that is what I said I would do if I saw this guy walking toward me in a bath house. Keep my big mouth shut, turn around, and walk away.

 

In my mind, that's the same as saying if you want to hire a "white twenty something," go ahead. And if you don't want to hire black escorts, that's your choice. Maybe you think all blacks are thugs, or maybe you're just not attracted to "them." My point is simple: if you want to pre-judge, just don't open your big god damn mouth about it.

 

Now, to be fair, BVB, maybe I am mis-judging you. Maybe you are not dense, and what you are actually arguing here is that we really should try to get rid of our prejudices, period. If you are saying that, I actually agree with you. My own view is that when white people say that they don't hire black escorts because they are not attracted to them, they are NOT racist, but they are prejudiced. I like the work "prejudiced" because it does mean you have made a pre-judgment about something and someone you have not even experienced. Just like I'm pre-judging the guy above because he looks like a Latino thug, even though he may not be. Maybe Miami Looker is right, and he's actually a total sweetheart.

 

Let's change the subject to two things we might all find it easier to agree on: gay sex, and peas. In the words of Quentin Crisp:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4vcC0V611Y

 

"I don't like peas, and I'm glad I don't like them, because if I liked them I would eat them, and I hate them."

 

Or, to paraphrase:

 

"I don't hire black escorts, because I'm not attracted to them, and I'm glad I'm not attracted to them because if I was attracted to them I would hire them, and I don't hire them."

 

If either of those statements are too convoluted for you, just think of it this way. For most of history the majority culture has made all kinds of judgments about gays and gay sex, because they don't like what we do, and have no idea who we are. Surprise! Once people have actually gotten to know us as neighbors or sons or daughters or co-workers, all the prejudice breaks down.

 

So I'll admit to my prejudices, and gladly apologize for calling the man above a Latino thug, if everybody who says they won't hire a black escort (or a Latino or an Asian one) admits to their prejudices and apologizes. Because I do think it's prejudice. And I do think if you all got over your prejudice and had sex with people who don't fit your pre-judged conceptions, things would be different, and better. Not to mention that I can't tell you how many black and Latino and Asian guys my white ass has enjoyed making love with.

 

But being the prejudiced asshole I am, I ain't holding my breath. Which is why I go back to the Epigonos rule. If you are going to be prejudiced, can't you all please just keep your big god damn mouths shut about it?

[+ dutchmuch]

I'll bet you this guy just got out of Chino.

 

http://images3.backpage.com/imager/u/large/172368942/image.jpg

 

http://la.backpage.com/MaleEscorts/bald-tattoed-and-here-for-you-versitile-dom-sub-massage-or-profesional-companion-at-your-service/53786783

[+ azdr0710]

life is short....gotta live dangerously at times.....

 

hell, was on a plane yesterday and my life was utterly out of my control for those 75 minutes.....

 

your Chino guy, dutchmuch, looks pretty cool

[jcmiami1]

I'm a racist pig then cause I have no sexual interest in "white blonde light eyed clean cut" escorts. I'm not joking either lol

[+ dutchmuch]

When next in LaLa Land, book Mr. Chino!

 

And was that you on the Lizard flight?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/airline-passenger-finds-lizard-in-onflight-meal-10317860.html

[+ quoththeraven]

Whether right or wrong- a large number of the ads for Black escorts that I've seen have self-described as being 'thugs'. While I can see the stereotype, if a guy self-describes himself that way or the experience he provides then I think when talking about the guy- or the number of ads that claim to provide it-is totally legitimate.

 

And for the record, white escorts that look like poster children for the Aryan Nation bother me a lot too.

 

Gman

 

Which is why I wrote: consider that it may be because that's the way black men think the market defines and responds to them. I've noticed that gay porn often shows black men in specific stereotyped ways (convict, criminal). I could also talk about how black men are usually depicted as tops and/or dominant, but that would take me into a deconstruction of how our history of slavery, white supremacy, and lynching is an attempt at removing the threat black men -- stereotyped and prized for their physical prowess and strength -- are assumed to pose.

 

What does it say about the men who hire and watch gay porn that their sexual fantasies about black men seem to involve stereotypes that are otherwise considered negative? Or that Asian men are stereotyped as femmes and bottom boys? Hispanic and Mediterranean men, while also stereotyped, seem to escape most of the more pejorative stereotyping because the dominant stereotype of them is the Latin lover, one that if anything is an advertisement waiting to write itself.

 

As for the Aryan Nation look: it doesn't appeal to you. It doesn't appeal to me, either. But on a board devoted primarily to helping men find other men to hire, if one feels obliged to mention what one does not like, it's more effective to do so in a manner that doesn't insult people who like people who look like that as well as people who look like that. "Bothers" is not neutral. "Bothers" implies a moral judgment. I have no problem judging the Aryan Nation; it's judging people who look like they belong to the Aryan Nation that is problematic. Looks alone are not usually sufficient proof.

 

There is a fine line between expressing preferences and coming across as ... I'm not sure if there is any word I can use that won't cause consternation, but the best I can come up with insensitive. Moreover, this thread didn't start with an expression of preferences, but with a complaint and an expression of disgust. I'm not even sure what kind of black guys the OP likes. "Ones who don't look like a criminal" isn't a very helpful description and other than the reference to teardrop tattoos contains some unfortunate assumptions about what criminals look like. Some of our most accomplished criminals look like Ted Bundy and Bernie Madoff. Would their photos have scared anyone? I doubt it.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I'm a racist pig then cause I have no sexual interest in "white blonde light eyed clean cut" escorts. I'm not joking either lol

 

http://funny-pics.co/wp-content/uploads/funny-black-pig.jpg http://www.all-creatures.org/images/pig-henry.jpg

 

Now I'm totally confused.

 

I know what a black pig looks like. And I know what a white pig looks like.

 

What the fuck does a Latino pig look like?

[jcmiami1]

Oh honey he wears a Mexican hat and smokes Cuban cigars LMAO!!!

http://funny-pics.co/wp-content/uploads/funny-black-pig.jpg http://www.all-creatures.org/images/pig-henry.jpg

 

Now I'm totally confused.

 

I know what a black pig looks like. And I know what a white pig looks like.

 

What the fuck does a Latino pig look like?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Whether right or wrong- a large number of the ads for Black escorts that I've seen have self-described as being 'thugs'. While I can see the stereotype, if a guy self-describes himself that way or the experience he provides then I think when talking about the guy- or the number of ads that claim to provide it-is totally legitimate.

 

Which is why I wrote: consider that it may be because that's the way black men think the market defines and responds to them. I've noticed that gay porn often shows black men in specific stereotyped ways (convict, criminal). What does it say about the men who hire and watch gay porn that their sexual fantasies about black men seem to involve stereotypes that are otherwise considered negative?

 

I'm gonna be all BVB on this one: this is really convoluted reasoning.

 

 

Once you're into prejudicial stereotypes, like the statements above, it is kind of hard to draw very fine lines about when it's okay for the pot to call the kettle black. Or not.

 

To me, the argument that it's understandable that black escorts self-describe themselves as "thug" because they are responding to a market of clients that presumably like black men to be stereotyped as convicts or criminals, because men who watch gay porn stereotype black men in ways that are generally considered negative, like being a "thug" --- well, it's all very circular and self-defeating. It doesn't get us anywhere, other than stuck in stereotypes that everyone basically seems to agree are negative.

 

That's why I said I think that Latino guy looks like a thug, and I'd avoid him. It is definitely prejudiced on my part to say that, as BVB says. But I still think he looks gross. And the OP, who is Latino, is saying he wouldn't hire men of his own race that look like this. I still go back to my point that it's best to avoid throwing these words around, but everybody I've asked about the picture of this Latino guy, including a black guy, agrees he looks "thug," and my view is that if you don't want to be called "thug," don't make yourself look that way. And if you describe yourself that way, you are kind of inviting people to use the word.

 

I view it as being in the same category as the "N" word. Back to Don Lemmon, and #4 on his "tough love" list:

 

 

I am 100 % with O'Reilly and Lemmon on this one. Frankly, I don't think O'Reilly looks all that hot. Sorry to sound ageist, but he's kind of old for my taste. Lemmon, on the other hand, looks like a gorgeous, professional, intelligent, articulate, and very sexy gay black man. Nothing "thug" about him.

 

This is of course utter hypocrisy for me, because I'm the one using the word "whore" as a way of "taking it back." And Lemmon probably would concede that in the mouth of a black comedian like Richard Pryor, the "N" word can be "poetry". As Lemmon says, it does all depend on context, which is consistent with my understanding and use of the word "whore," as I went on and on and on about. But I'd be the first to admit it still creates confusion. I used the "N" word once, when I was in my early 20's, intentionally, when speaking to a black woman I worked with, and she practically slapped me in the face and said, "Don't you ever use that word again!" She was right, and so now I only refer to the word "n-----" as the "N" word, but I think it might actually be for the best if most people just stopped using it. I'd never think of using it describe any black I know, except in this way to make this point.

 

Sorry to be a broken record, but it goes back to the Epigonos rule:

 

I certainly agree with Nvr2Thick when he states. “It is, however, certainly appropriate to talk about our preferred escort characteristics on a forum where we talk about escorts.”

 

However, over the years, on this site, there have been a multitude of threads highly critical of escorts who in their ads state that they won’t get together with old people, fat people or ethnic people. Should there be a different standard for clients?

 

Can anyone actually explain to me how using the word "thug" or describing yourself that way or making yourself look that way does anything but reinforce a stereotype that everyone generally considers negative?

[+ dutchmuch]

 

Sorry to be a broken record, but it goes back to the Epigonos rule:

 

 

 

Can anyone actually explain to me how using the word "thug" or describing yourself that way or making yourself look that way does anything but reinforce a stereotype that everyone generally considers negative?

 

No. There are some, even here, who gravitate to thugs.

[Mocha]

It's no secret there's an acceptable degree of prejudice on this platform. Even Fidel Castro knows that.

 

That said, if the responses seem to place thugs with someone who has tattoos, some of you either never stepped foot into a gym, are ultra conservative, or totally sheltered. I go to a gym in a Lily White suburb, in a lily white city, located in a lily white state. No matter what day I go, I seem to be the only one without a sleeve of tattoos. And I'm mocha. Yet, non of those guys even come close to being thugs. Matter of fact, half are probably gay themselves....if not, hiding it behind children.

 

That being said, I advertise on backpage myself....ONCE A WEEK. I used to get some really good clients from there. I liked that it attracted more bi-curious and Latino/Hispanic clients than the other sites, especially in the Southwest. The "thug" Latino guy pictured on this thread? I've had clients like that from backpage. And they were fun.

 

Lately though, I have noticed a lot of the "questionables" and straight out of prison ads. They go beyond the streets of Brookyn, I've seen these ads listed as far as Montana and North Dakota. Places I've actually gone to, but there's no way those guys are actually there. Even where I live, it's like every other day theres a new 'just out of prison' look. And not just Black. Being ethnic myself, its annoying. And as far as Black escorts "thinking that's what clients want", don't lead yourself into thinking that. I have never had to advertise myself as dominant/thug/etc to get clients. That may be a fantasy behind the scenes, but it's not necessary for an ad.

 

That said, without actually having set up an appointment with these guys, much less called their number on the ad, who can tell what the hell it is. However, when I start noticing clients not calling as much from backpage or saying they "tried hiring before, and had too many disappointments", I have a reason to be concerned with what's being put out there. And some of these guys are messing up my money because they're advertising promises but delivering shit. Then Clients stop using it.

[jcmiami1]

From the proverb "one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch" the same thing applies here. Sadly some people live up to the "stereotype" and reinforce it especially when their behavior is repetitive.

[+ stevenkesslar]

It's no secret there's an acceptable degree of prejudice on this platform. Even Fidel Castro knows that.

 

That said, if the responses seem to place thugs with someone who has tattoos, some of you either never stepped foot into a gym, are ultra conservative, or totally sheltered. I go to a gym in a Lily White suburb, in a lily white city, located in a lily white state. No matter what day I go, I seem to be the only one without a sleeve of tattoos. And I'm mocha. Yet, non of those guys even come close to being thugs. Matter of fact, half are probably gay themselves....if not, hiding it behind children.

 

That being said, I advertise on backpage myself....ONCE A WEEK. I used to get some really good clients from there. I liked that it attracted more bi-curious and Latino/Hispanic clients than the other sites, especially in the Southwest. The "thug" Latino guy pictured on this thread? I've had clients like that from backpage. And they were fun.

 

Lately though, I have noticed a lot of the "questionables" and straight out of prison ads. They go beyond the streets of Brookyn, I've seen these ads listed as far as Montana and North Dakota. Places I've actually gone to, but there's no way those guys are actually there. Even where I live, it's like every other day theres a new 'just out of prison' look. And not just Black. Being ethnic myself, its annoying. And as far as Black escorts "thinking that's what clients want", don't lead yourself into thinking that. I have never had to advertise myself as dominant/thug/etc to get clients. That may be a fantasy behind the scenes, but it's not necessary for an ad.

 

That said, without actually having set up an appointment with these guys, much less called their number on the ad, who can tell what the hell it is. However, when I start noticing clients not calling as much from backpage or saying they "tried hiring before, and had too many disappointments", I have a reason to be concerned with what's being put out there. And some of these guys are messing up my money because they're advertising promises but delivering shit. Then Clients stop using it.

 

Nice post.

 

You've confirmed several things, at least in terms of how it works for you.

 

One, you don't have to call yourself a "thug" to be successful.

 

Two, even someone who looks like the guy I labeled a "Latino thug" can be fun and safe. I'd be the first to admit calling somebody a "Latino thug" is a prejudicial term.

 

I hate lots of tattoos, like sleeves, even on hot muscle guys. That's just me. In my perfect world, we'd all just stop using prejudicial racial words like "thug" and we'd ban these over the top tattoos. Maybe when I'm an old hag my dreams will come true and nobody will call each other "thug" and everybody will call the muscle boys with tattoos all over their badly aging bodies "hags." That would be a fair outcome to me.

[jcmiami1]

As a "client" I already had very disappointing experiences with guys on BP with that "look." While none thankfully were dangerous situations, these guys were not fun just apparently straight drug seekers looking for drug money from gay clients ( one was totally high to top it off ) - it was just too obvious. In both of my cases, I would have had more fun with a blow up doll. Decent legit escorts like Mocha will definitely be affected due to consequences of these bad experiences. Like he mentioned, it's almost impossible to tell who is who with everyone getting the similar "look" it's turned into a game of Russian roulette. But no doubt there has been an increase in "questionable" "fresh out of prison" looking guys on BP. Personally speaking I will not be using BP any longer.

[Guest RexB]

I hate lots of tattoos, like sleeves, even on hot muscle guys.

I do, too. I have nothing to add to this conversation, but I take every opportunity to weigh in when the subject of tattoos comes up. I consider that trend to be a tragedy. One of my fondest wishes is that the tattoo fad play itself out before not just one, not just two, but now three generations disfigure their bodies permanently due to this craze. It's getting to be really hard to find escorts (or anyone, really) who aren't all scribbled up with ink. When I find them I snatch them up and compliment them for not falling for that fad and to encourage them to not go for the ink.

If stating my opinion deters one person from getting tatted or tatted more it's worth it to me.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I do, too.

If stating my opinion deters one person from getting tatted or tatted more it's worth it to me.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Perfect timing. I had an appointment tonight to have the word "WHORE" tattooed on my forehead.

 

I just cancelled it.

 

Kinda bums me out, actually. But I'll be okay. I guess I'll still know what I am when I look in the mirror.

[AdamSmith]

to have the word "WHORE" tattooed on my forehead.

 

No. Rather: Ceci n'est-pas un whore.

 

[Guest RexB]

THANK YOU!

 

Perfect timing. I had an appointment tonight to have the word "WHORE" tattooed on my forehead.

 

I just cancelled it.

 

Kinda bums me out, actually. But I'll be okay. I guess I'll still know what I am when I look in the mirror.

 

Steven, now my mission has been been fulfilled, even though the idea of bumming you out breaks my heart. If you come to NYC you can count on me to remind you what you are when I book you, and it won't be for your time only!