Em Dashes

[+ Gar1eth]

The three dots are called ellipses.

 

And if they come at the end of a sentence, there should be four of them. At least, that's what my school teachers taught me back during the Harding administration.

 

I dash all over the place, but I never really knew there were different dash types except that I had noticed that the minus sign was usually shorter than a hyphen. And I am the reverse of azdr-I did fairly well on my SAT Verbal but only achieved a 510 in Math.

 

As for the ellipsis at the end of a sentence having four dots, that's-of course- because the fourth dot is the period-:por what Mike Carey might know as a "full stop."

 

On another punctuation note-what troubles me is the period (full stop) when there are quote marks used for emphasis and not for quoting something at the end of the sentence. I think IIRC that here in the States we are taught that the period should go inside the quote mark, but sometimes to me it looks funny when placed there. I believe in the UK and many Commonwealth Countries that the "full stop" is placed outside the quote marks.

 

Gman

[whipped guy]

On another punctuation note-what troubles me is the period (full stop) when there are quote marks used for emphasis and not for quoting something at the end of the sentence. I think IIRC that here in the States we are taught that the period should go inside the quote mark, but sometimes to me it looks funny when placed there. I believe in the UK and many Commonwealth Countries that the "full stop" is placed outside the quote marks.

 

Gman

That's so true and I'm not always consistent in that regatd. It's indeed funny that sometimes it looks funny and at other times it doesn't look funny.

[+ deej]

Worse--the Punctuation Patrol!

 

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNTExMDY4MTA4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDI5NTkxNA@@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

Auntie Em! Auntie Em!

 

A friend of mine is an editor and typesetter known for pedantic grammar corrections. I've often referred to her as Grammar Nanny.

 

She has a new name now.

[AdamSmith]

That's so true and I'm not always consistent in that regatd. It's indeed funny that sometimes it looks funny and at other times it doesn't look funny.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. For a lot of my career I've been editor of (narrowly targeted, never heard of; but still) tech business newsletters & reports. Long ago I got hold of and learned in full the AP Style Guide, the NY Times style handbook, WSJ style book, for good non-US measure The Economist style book -- and then made my own house rules, as I thought best made sense. Like: always omit the serial (Oxford) comma, unless you need it for clarity, as when the final thing in the series is a long noun clause. Then happily throw it in.

 

I also told everybody to end sentences with prepositions whenever it served simplicity and sound. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Dr Johnson et al. did it. English is a Germanic language, where that is entirely proper, not a Romance language as those 18th- and 19th-century crackpot grammarians who dragged in wholly irrelevant Latin rules would have it. Thus likewise fine to use an adjective between "to" and the infinitive: as it is not even possible in English to split the infinitive, the word "to" not being part of the infinitive in English.

 

&tc., &tc.

[gallahadesquire]

I never use the what ever it's called dash... but I do have a penchant for the "three dot" thing... It has become a part of my writing style ever since I started using a computer or now mostly an iPad... I'm totally addicted to the "..." Thing. The only real problem has occurred when in the early days of my submitting reviews here the "... " thing would come out as some crazy other type of punctuation that made absolutely no sense... Consequently... I had to be very careful when submitting reviews so as not to drive Daddy... or more specifically his program... totally crazy.

 

So long live the three dot thing... and to hell with the balderdash!

 

It's called an "ellipsis". And I have no idea what the code is—perhaps someone else might elucidate … never mind, it's ALT + 0133.

[bigvalboy]

Agree wholeheartedly. For a lot of my career I've been editor of (narrowly targeted, never heard of; but still) tech business newsletters & reports. Long ago I got hold of and learned in full the AP Style Guide, the NY Times style handbook, WSJ style book, for good non-US measure The Economist style book -- and then made my own house rules, as I thought best made sense. Like: always omit the serial (Oxford) comma, unless you need it for clarity, as when the final thing in the series is a long noun clause. Then happily throw it in.

 

I also told everybody to end sentences with prepositions whenever it served simplicity and sound. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Dr Johnson et al. did it. English is a Germanic language, where that is entirely proper, not a Romance language as those 18th- and 19th-century crackpot grammarians who dragged in wholly irrelevant Latin rules would have it. Thus likewise fine to use an adjective between "to" and the infinitive: as it is not even possible in English to split the infinitive, the word "to" not being part of the infinitive in English.

 

&tc., &tc.

 

[whipped guy]

I also told everybody to end sentences with prepositions whenever it served simplicity and sound.

 

Again it is funny that when writing I almost never end a sentence with a preposition even though I know that it is permissible. When speaking I almost always end with the proposition.

 

I recently mentioned that it was permissible to end a sentence with a preposition to a high school English teacher and she looked at me in total horror. I would guess that when a pedant is used to the pedantic all else sounds unnatural when it really is quite natural!

[+ Gar1eth]

Agree wholeheartedly. For a lot of my career I've been editor of (narrowly targeted, never heard of; but still) tech business newsletters & reports. Long ago I got hold of and learned in full the AP Style Guide, the NY Times style handbook, WSJ style book, for good non-US measure The Economist style book -- and then made my own house rules, as I thought best made sense. Like: always omit the serial (Oxford) comma, unless you need it for clarity, as when the final thing in the series is a long noun clause. Then happily throw it in.

 

Oh my sweet Lord ignoring the Oxford Comma!!! As Mr. Banks in Mary Poppins says regarding his old nanny Miss Andrew, "The HORROR! The HORROR!!!!" Actually I'm serious here. Lists that skip the Oxford Comma look unfinished. And for the sake of 'parallelism' I think it should be included.

 

I also told everybody to end sentences with prepositions whenever it served simplicity and sound. Chaucer' date=' Shakespeare, Milton, Dr Johnson et al. did it. English is a Germanic language, where that is entirely proper, not a Romance language as those 18th- and 19th-century crackpot grammarians who dragged in wholly irrelevant Latin rules would have it. Thus likewise fine to use an [b']adjective[/b] between "to" and the infinitive: as it is not even possible in English to split the infinitive, the word "to" not being part of the infinitive in English.

 

&tc., &tc.

 

As someone who took two years of Latin in high school and has an unofficial German Minor from college (basically I had enough credit hours for a minor, but I already had another official minor), I'm not sure I can totally agree with you as German grammar is frequently very similar to Latin. In fact probably one of the reasons I did so well in German was that I understood the grammar better due to my Latin when others in the class without any grammar training were floundering.

 

Also, and I'm sure it's just a typo, but I'm thinking you probably meant that it's ok to use an adverb between "to" and the "infinitive" rather than an adjective.

Gman

[whipped guy]

 

Also, and I'm sure it's just a typo, but I'm thinking you probably meant that it's ok to use an adverb between "to" and the "infinitive" rather than an adjective.

Gman

Now let's not get overly pedantic Gman. :D I noticed that, but given it was AS I knew it was a typo!!! At least I hope it was a typo!

[AdamSmith]

You're both too kind. Actually it's galloping senescence.

 

As for German grammar: I will root around for something to back up my prejudices but for now stand on their being just that, as Mencken did.

 

http://www.amazon.com/H-L-Mencken-Prejudices-Complete-Library/dp/1598530763

[whipped guy]

You're both too kind. Actually it's galloping senescence.

 

As for German grammar: I will root around for something to back up my prejudices but for now stand on their being just that, as Mencken did.

 

http://www.amazon.com/H-L-Mencken-Prejudices-Complete-Library/dp/1598530763

Well my mind has already gone through the final stages of senectitude. AKA beyond senility! As a case in point, I watched Jeopardy tonight, and it was Celeberty Jeopardy too boot, and they all did better than I. Even the middle celeb who finished in the red!

[marylander1940]

I generally try to use propa gramma and punctuation, don't always succeed, and tend to edit my mistakes out of posts if I notice them. One thing I'm usually lazy about is various dashes. I confess, I usually use space/hyphen/space, but I have been shamed by so many guys using em-dashes properly in a forum like this that is pretty casual for the most part. Sooo, I've taken the hint—even though it was not a deliberate one—and will try to do things properly!

 

I have dyslexia but the grammar corrector helps me a lot.

[anotherjohnindupont]

Oh god, the Grammar Police have recruited another one. Am I going to be the only one with sentences so long that OJ will finish his sentence before I finish mine? I love good grammar, but what do you want "good grammar or good taste'?

 

I should sign up.

[mike carey]

Good grief, what have I started?

I believe in the UK and many Commonwealth Countries that the "full stop" is placed outside the quote marks.

Yep. The rule I've always used is that if the part in inverted commas (quote marks) is part of a sentence, then the period (full stop) goes outside the quote marks. If the quoted part has an exclamation mark or question mark that goes inside the quote marks and there is no full stop outside them. If the part being quoted is a complete sentence or sentences, the full stop goes inside the quote marks.

Like: always omit the serial (Oxford) comma, unless you need it for clarity, as when the final thing in the series is a long noun clause. Then happily throw it in.

Same here. I haven't checked the Economist Style Guide, which I greatly like, but even if it prescribed the Oxford comma, I wouldn't start using it. The Australian Defence writing guide says not to use it; the USAF guide says to use it.

[+ Gar1eth]

Good grief, what have I started?

 

If the quoted part has an exclamation mark or question mark that goes inside the quote marks and there is no full stop outside them.

 

It depends on whether the part in quotes is a question or whether the quote is 'declarative' but part of a question. In the latter case the question mark goes outside the quote marks.

 

Ex: Did Mother say, " I am going to the store"?

Mother said, " Am I going to the store? "

 

If the part being quoted is a complete sentence or sentences' date=' the full stop goes inside the quote marks.[/quote']

 

I was talking more about items in quote marks where the quote marks (should I call them "inverted commas"for you? ) were used for emphasis or irony as opposed to actual quotes.

 

As for

 

Same here. I haven't checked the Economist Style Guide' date=' which I greatly like, but even if it prescribed the Oxford comma, I wouldn't start using it. The Australian Defence writing guide says not to use it; the USAF guide says to use it.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

Ok I'm kidding mostly. For the sake of world peace, I could give the Oxford Comma up.

 

Gman

[+ newatthis]

I was trying to be a little light hearted, an em-dash not being a life and death matter....

But ellipses are...

[whipped guy]

But ellipses are...

And as such I vow never to use an ellipsis again... Ever... Never... .

 

Oops!

[AdamSmith]

And as such I vow never to use an ellipsis again... Ever... Never... .

 

Try being more elliptical.

[whipped guy]

Try being more elliptical.

Ironically I just came back from the gym and I never could get myself coordinated on that damned elliptical "thing a ma jig"! . I'm more of a straightforward treadmill and weights kind of guy!

 

So I guess as far as getting elliptical is concerned it's addio per sempre!

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

With all gratitude — Thank you VERY, VERY much !

 

You're welcome. It also drives me crazy when people don't use the correct diacritical marks—I mean, they're right there.

 

jalapeño

façade

châlet

touché

scheiße

Tylenol®

[bigvalboy]

Right where? Is it in the forum software? Sorry if I should know this, but I don't see what you are talking about...

 

You're welcome. It also drives me crazy when people don't use the correct diacritical marks—I mean, they're right there.

 

jalapeño

façade

châlet

touché

scheiße

Tylenol®

[whipped guy]

Right where? Is it in the forum software? Sorry if I should know this, but I don't see what you are talking about...

Well BVB! He was just showing off! Try doing that with your iPhone!!! Well actually you can if you have a French, German, Spanish or whatever keyboard capability. Now the touché thing is built into my spell check...

 

As an alternative method if you want to type accent marks etc. on an iPhone or iPad you can simply tap and hold the corresponding alphabet key for a while and up pops a list of related characters for you to choose from. Keep holding down the key and make your selection. As in façade! Molto facile in verità!

 

The Tylenol thing: if you type Tylenol® in Microsoft Word it works. There is also a way to do it on an Apple computer. There are also various commands to add accent marks etc. to foreign languages without special keyboards on a PC.

 

For the record I'm typing this on my iPad as my computer is 1,000 miles away.

[bigvalboy]

Hmmm...interesting. lol.... No iphone, no ipad, no multi-language keyboard. And touche* to Chris for the humor.

 

 

*sorry for the missing diacritical

[whipped guy]

Hmmm...interesting. lol.... No iphone, no ipad, no multi-language keyboard. And touche* to Chris for the humor.

 

 

*sorry for the missing diacritical

Yep BVB! You're gonna be very sorry! I have a flogger not go mention a pair of nipple clamps with your name on them! Plus, I'm not that far away and the old girl (metaphorically speaking that is) has been running perfectly. Therefore I could be on my way at a moments notice!

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Right where? Is it in the forum software? Sorry if I should know this, but I don't see what you are talking about...

 

Sorry, I meant "right there" on the Apple keyboard if you hold down Option + the correct key.

 

Well BVB! He was just showing off! Try doing that with your iPhone!!! Well actually you can if you have a French, German, Spanish or whatever keyboard capability. Now the touché thing is built into my spell check...

 

As an alternative method if you want to type accent marks etc. on an iPhone or iPad you can simply tap and hold the corresponding alphabet key for a while and up pops a list of related characters for you to choose from. Keep holding down the key and make your selection. As in façade! Molto facile in verità!

 

The Tylenol thing: if you type Tylenol® in Microsoft Word it works. There is also a way to do it on an Apple computer. There are also various commands to add accent marks etc. to foreign languages without special keyboards on a PC.

 

For the record I'm typing this on my iPad as my computer is 1,000 miles away.

 

All of the marks I typed are available on iPhone by holding down the key: eg. depress/hold N = three different options for N. Typing ® will give you ®, © will give you ©, and tm will give you ™.

 

On the Apple keyboard, type the diacritic first—if it's a tilde ˜ or an accent ´, etc. and then the letter, like í, ä or ê, or ñ, ã or õ.