Truvada May Not Be 99% Effective In Preventing HIV

[+ Gar1eth]

http://nyti.ms/1nwXCsw

 

Gman

[Guest ChrisW]

Those are old numbers being from 2012, I remember seeing those when I initially went on prep, newer stats have already come out. Prep is effective as is PeP, statistical data won't tell us how exactly effective this medication is because there are to many variables to take into the consideration, some encounters are more high risk than others (the difference between bleeding when someone cums in you or someone pulling out and shooting on your back) but the reality is it works. Some people recoil at it because they think everyone will bareback on it and use that as a condom the fact of the mater is its another tool in the arsenal against HIV.

 

Let the "my friend died of AIDS so you should do this with your safe sex practices" or the "we just don't have enough information" arguments begin….and GO!

[+ Gar1eth]

Before I start this post, I want to say that if I could afford it- and yes I know there are programs but for various reasons I'm not going to discuss I'm not eligible-I would be on Truvada. I would also still be using condoms.

 

 

So in reply to Chris. It's obviouly protective Chris. But the real numbers aren't known yet. It hasn't been out long enough. There is also the question of what happens if someone on it does become infected, doesn't know it, and the HIV becomes resistant to Truvada- which could then spread. Believe me I understand why you want to believe so strongly in Truvada. I want to believe in it it too. But in reality no one is going to know for sure for at least several more years now.

 

Other concerns #1. in real life as opposed to the study- these guys in the study knew they were in a study and the overwhelming majority still didnt take the medication correctly/daily. Compliance rates outside studies are traditionally even worse-much worse. That's going to need to be factored in to whatever considerations people use to decide on Truvada. #2. As for people not on Truvada having sex with those who say they are- it seems to me that unfortunately because not everyone tells the truth, that statement can be trusted as much as someone saying 'I'm negative' without corresponding proof. #3. And there is the guy on Truvada who thinks he can never be infected. He becomes infected but never gets tested. Truvada alone isn't enough to treat. He could certainly pass the infection along.

 

I hope in 5 to 10 years we will find out that Truvada is one of the best answers. But every time I see a post from you or other Truvada proponents- and I don't mean to be cruel or sarcastic, but I 'hear' the true believer syndrome. Where you want/believe in something so strongly. You want to proselytize and spread the news. You can't understand why everyone doesn't see things as you do. And I hope, I really, really do that you are right. But again I don't think we will know definitely for at least several years.

 

Gman

[Guest ChrisW]

I am not going to touch your inability to get the medication because thats private info

 

I am not going to quote any stats but rather speak to my own experience and that of others I know

 

Your right we don't know a lot of things but I am not going to let that deter me from taking care of myself. The possibility of drug resistant strains of HIV is something that has existed for a while and is a very real concern. I have found that taking truvada has increased my daily adherence to other medications as well a friends because we know we have to take that pill at a certain time every day. There are other medications that could be used for PreP but from what I have heard there is a lack of interest in getting them approved.

 

I am not going to speak to the truthfulness of disclose when people serosort.

 

Your 3rd point is not applicable unless this mystery person is getting medication illegally. If you take prep its a mandate of the medication that you get HIV tests every 3 month I believe. You also get liver and kidney functions done as well. That testing every 3 months is a preventative measure from getting resistant strains but I personally think folks should get tested more often if your higher risk.

 

As for being a proponent there is information I don't feel disclosing on the forum as to why I feel is to effective but I can tell you it works and very well so far in the year and a half I have been on it. Please continue to be skeptical and I despite what you may think I am a skeptic too I have just chosen to go on prep because I feel its the right thing for my health at this point in my life.

[jimboivyo]

I am not going to touch your inability to get the medication because thats private info

 

I am not going to quote any stats but rather speak to my own experience and that of others I know

 

Your right we don't know a lot of things but I am not going to let that deter me from taking care of myself. The possibility of drug resistant strains of HIV is something that has existed for a while and is a very real concern. I have found that taking truvada has increased my daily adherence to other medications as well a friends because we know we have to take that pill at a certain time every day. There are other medications that could be used for PreP but from what I have heard there is a lack of interest in getting them approved.

 

I am not going to speak to the truthfulness of disclose when people serosort.

 

Your 3rd point is not applicable unless this mystery person is getting medication illegally. If you take prep its a mandate of the medication that you get HIV tests every 3 month I believe. You also get liver and kidney functions done as well. That testing every 3 months is a preventative measure from getting resistant strains but I personally think folks should get tested more often if your higher risk.

 

As for being a proponent there is information I don't feel disclosing on the forum as to why I feel is to effective but I can tell you it works and very well so far in the year and a half I have been on it. Please continue to be skeptical and I despite what you may think I am a skeptic too I have just chosen to go on prep because I feel its the right thing for my health at this point in my life.

 

 

 

First foremost, you're on the med, so naturally you're going to be a cheerleader for it. you WANT to believe it works, doesn't have weakness and will keep you safe. that's all well and good, but there's not enough long term study to ensure that

 

you describe this follow up testing and don't say that that's in a perfect situation. many won't go back for those tests. many can't even afford the drug to begin with, especially those who have no insurance. try going on this drug in Texas without insurance. there's nearly no infrastructure for folks to easily get it or make it more affordable.

 

I have no problem with you taking care of yourself. What I have a problem with is this medication getting the magic pill treatment. it's a dangerous way to think and many of us only respond in the negative to keep making sure weak points are brought up and hopefully fixed

[Guest ChrisW]

Your right there are no long term studies so what do you prepose people do?

 

I don't think truvada is a magical pill as I stated in my first comment "its another tool in the arsenal against HIV". Is it effective? Absolutely otherwise this tread wouldn't exist. Is it the be all end of prevention? No

 

As for being covered the choice to take the drug is yours as is your ability to get healthcare. Your more than welcome to nit pick on health care availability but there are always options even if they aren't ideal such as moving to another state.

[Frankly Rich]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/13-02-27-spielbank-wiesbaden-by-RalfR-093.jpg/220px-13-02-27-spielbank-wiesbaden-by-RalfR-093.jpg

[Steven_Draker]

Chris, what made you decide to take PrEP?

[Newly]

Why in goodness sakes would a sex worker who can afford it NOT take PrEP? Condoms rip, slip and have other causes of failure. The chances of that are slim, but when one is having sex with hundreds of partners the odds of it happening increase. If in addition to using condoms you can also take a pill that helps prevent HIV when there is a condom failure why wouldn't you use it (again, assuming you can afford it and it doesn't have any side effects that you can't deal with). The equivalent would be a female sex worker who doesn't use birth control pills because she makes her clients use condoms. There seems to be a mentality saying that someone who uses this would suddenly go nuts and start engaging in all sorts of risky behavior, which is nonsense. I for one would very much feel safer with an escort that used PrEP, to me it adds an extra layer of security in the prevention of spreading HIV.

[LookingAround]

What NewToThis said. Condoms fail. If you look on the .gov website you'll see that number of sex partners (plus being paid for sex) are Independent risk factors for HIV. Why a sex worker wouldn't want it is astonishing.

[Steven_Draker]

Newtothis,

"Condoms rip and fail" is just an excuse.

 

On the other hand people who "forget" using condoms in the heat of the moment, people who refuse using them because "it feels better" without, people who are reckless, drunk or high on drugs to the point of forgetting condoms should definitely consider Truvada.

 

I for one would very much feel safer with an escort that used PrEP

You must be really 'new to this' if you think that someone on Truvada cannot give you a STI. Actually, I'd be much more careful in those cases, because Truvada is used commonly as carte blanche for barebacking. And there's not only HIV ... Talk openly to guys who bareback and get figure of how many times they have to visit the doctor's office to cure a STD. Don't get lured into some fake illusion of safety.

 

Talk to people who have been in the profession for a long time and have remained HIV-negative and STD-free in all these years. Learn through their experience rather than making speculations.

[Steven_Draker]

From the comments section of the New York Times article:

 

• "I believe that the number one challenge is getting folks interested in **HIV prevention** and not if it is better to use PrEP or condoms. It is sometimes a challenge to have at-risk communities to care. In the 1980s and early 1990′s, people were motivated by the fear of death to take prevention seriously. Now, with less stigma and less pain attached to an HIV diagnosis, there’s simply less to be motivated by. Access and cost are important considerations. But the real issue is keeping folks focused on HIV PREVENTION!"
   
   
  
• "None of this is really telling us much of anything if they aren't distinguishing people on PrEP who use condoms consistently from people on PrEP who don't use them at all. In each case, furthermore, we need the data broken down into exclusively active, exclusively passive, and versatile partners. What people want to know is: What is the probability of contracting HIV from an arbitrary HIV+ partner if I use condoms consistently and without PrEP, and what is the probability if I use PrEP consistently and without condoms?"
   
   
  
• "If I'm reading the article correctly, at least 48 of 1,250 subjects who were assigned to take Truvada daily did not do so, and 44 of them took less than twice per week (and possibly not at all). That's nearly 4% of the study population - and these are individuals who enrolled in a clinical trial (which indicates they were somewhat motivated to participate) and received their medication for free! In the real world, where people aren't always motivated to take their medications - and/or can't or don't want to pay their co-pays - expecting Truvada to control the spread of HIV is foolish.
   
  Those who take it faithfully will benefit, but I fear too many will think herd immunity will somehow protect them, and take fewer precautions than they should."
  

[Newly]

I'm not that new to this, I'm just not feeble minded nor do I have a particular ax to grind, I'm just using common sense. A lot of this conversation is starting to sound like the nut cases who won't vaccinate their children against polio or measles because vaccines aren't "natural" and cause autism - it's people like that that have created a resurgence in these diseases.

 

(1) Escorts and their clients are high risks - the fact that they have hundreds of random sexual encounters puts them in this category.

(2) You have to assume that every escort or client is positive - because people lie, forget, think it doesn't count because they only bb with their significant other, whatever.

(3) Condoms do fail. Prior to birth control pills lots of women got pregnant even though their partners were using condoms.

(4) There are plenty of STDs besides HIV, but HIV is a particularly problematic STD.

(5) People who are stupid enough to think that using PrEP gives them the ability to do anything they want are fools - it's just one tool along with condoms. But even these people are better off using PrEP rather than nothing at all.

(6) If you are using condoms and you and your partner are using PrEP you have lowered your risk as much as possible outside of abstinence or mutual monogamy - I have yet to hear an argument that using PrEP heightens risk except for the absurdity of people claiming that this somehow weakens someone's intellectual capacity so they suddenly throw all caution to the wind and start bbing with wild abandoned. People who do that would have bb'ed anyway without any protection whatsoever.

 

Anyhow, it's totally up to the individual to do what they feel comfortable with but willfully disregarding a potentially powerful tool in the prevention of HIV because it may somehow cause one to loose their mental faculties seems to make about as much sense as people who refuse to teach children about birth control because it's going to turn them into sluts, with abstinence until marriage being the only thing they should be taught. Guess what, that tactic never worked.

[Steven_Draker]

I'm just using common sense.

 

This is too much speculation and not enough real-life experience for such an important issue.

[armadillo]

You are playing pure and an expensive Russian Roulette with this drug.

[jawjateck]

... someone who uses this would suddenly go nuts and start engaging in all sorts of risky behavior.....

 

Pill or no pill, lots of escorts have gone nuts. I am saddened and frustrated by the number of ads in which the escort is either flexible with or refuses condom use. I'm more irritated with those who offer bare service for additional compensation. I always assume that everyone is pos and play accordingly, but many in this new generation of escorts will never be hired by me. :-(

[LookingAround]

NewToThis you give sound answers and logic. Some people just have their head in the sand. I'm not sure why Steven an "international escort" has such a view on PrEP.

 

Steven the fortunate fact that you are still HIV neg is wonderful but with the number of sexual partners you have had from so many countries (no doubt some with high rates of HIV infection) if you could add an extra later of protection why wouldn't you? You quote cdc and us government statistics all the time but government policy would be to encourage truvada for someone like you. That you have remained negative is both luck and lowered risk through condoms. I pray you always stay negative but a condom alone is no guarantee unfortunately.

 

Your implication that if someone is on PrEP it is because they secretly want to bareback is a real disservice to the men here because it could discourage some from getting the drug which could lower their risk. I for one wish you would keep your moralistic and odd views to yourself rather than implicitly discourage a man here from lowering his risk for HIV infection even further.

[bigvalboy]

NewToThis you give sound answers and logic. Some people just have their head in the sand. I'm not sure why Steven an "international escort" has such a view on PrEP.

 

Steven the fortunate fact that you are still HIV neg is wonderful but with the number of sexual partners you have had from so many countries (no doubt some with high rates of HIV infection) if you could add an extra later of protection why wouldn't you? You quote cdc and us government statistics all the time but government policy would be to encourage truvada for someone like you. That you have remained negative is both luck and lowered risk through condoms. I pray you always stay negative but a condom alone is no guarantee unfortunately.

 

Your implication that if someone is on PrEP it is because they secretly want to bareback is a real disservice to the men here because it could discourage some from getting the drug which could lower their risk. I for one wish you would keep your moralistic and odd views to yourself rather than implicitly discourage a man here from lowering his risk for HIV infection even further.

 

+1....Thanks LookingAround for your insight. I completely agree.

[Steven_Draker]

I have no moral to receive from "LookingAround" who states in his earlier message:

 

... My bf and I hire a lot of rentboy escorts for a 3 way. I wear a condom but my bf likes to do it raw but pulls out before he cums. All the guys we hire say "safe only." I would estimate 8 out of 10 allow him to fuck them raw without a comment or hesitation and about half of those flip and top him raw. One well known escort who advertises "safe only" came inside him while he was fucking him raw.

 

If I were "LookingAround" I would focus on my own safe sex practices and in my own couple before giving advice to others by the example I give.

 

+1....Thanks LookingAround for your insight. I completely agree.

 

And even less receiving lessons on safe sex from bigvalgurl:

 

Originally Posted by bigvalboy

"Went to see a masseur once, Ex porn star, drop dead gorgeous, Lusted after him for years, a few minutes into the massage he came around to the front of me and he was rock hard. He then crawled on top of me and began telling me how hot I was and that I had gotten him horny. He began to rub his hard cock on my ass, and (I will interject here that I have never bottomed before). He really took his time and began to fu*k me. I knew he didn't have a condom on, and for a split second I wrestled with what to do, and finally decided to let him fu*k me. It was an amazing experience, since it was my first time and all, he was quite proud that he was the first and that I had enjoyed it so much. We talked for several hours after that about a million different things, A great night it was... Would I allow that same experience again? I can't say for certain that I would act otherwise. I am being as honest as I can here. And for those who are curious I have been tested, and it is thumbs up."

[bigvalboy]

Judge not lest ye be judged

 

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/bf/d1/60/bfd160005452a7ac9b4dd14e2124a815.jpg

[LookingAround]

Steven do you secretly feel guilty for what you do? You so enjoy being the morals police. I think people here can make their own moral decisions without your aspersions.

 

If someone chose to bareback as my former bf did (never with me btw) wouldn't it be better he at least take truvada? If you use condoms but have sex with hundreds of people a year from all over the world as you do, wouldn't it be better you use a condom and take truvada to lower your risk further? You have this strange and naive belief that if you use condoms you can have sex with as many people from wherever because you're "safe." You're not. You're at high risk. Why not reduce it as low as you can?

 

If you are not on truvada may I ask why?

 

PS. You sure are a piece of work. Does anyone here actually hire you after seeing how you behave and think?

[Newly]

Sense seems to have taken a beating here but let me give all of you a scenario. Lamb skin condoms are preferred by some because they feel better, but they offer NO protection against HIV or herpes. So a client or escort uses one and although he is not bbing he has no protection whatsoever against STDs. The person using it may not even know their limitations, and in the dark his partner has no idea that it is lambskin. Had he been using Truvada he would have had protection against HIV, maybe not 100% but close to it and a heck of a lot more than using those condoms. Anyhow, the great thing about Truvada is that I am in control, I know if I'm taking it or not. If other people want to risk their lives and that of their partners that's their prerogative. Heck, it may even clean out the gene pool.

[Steven_Draker]

Judge not lest ye be judged

 

Exactly.

 

"Everyone should play safe, except me" read "Everyone should be on Truvada but me". Right, bigvalboy?

 

Isn't it hypocritical when "newtothis", "LookingAround" and "bigvalboy" insist that other people should be on Truvada, while themselves (given the two examples above) are not taking it?

 

http://www.sendmeamirror.com/userfiles/images/normal/62.jpg

[Steven_Draker]

Again, you're making this thread way too personal, "LookingAround".

 

I told you a while ago not to take everything Steven Draker says too personal. I state my opinion here, it is just my opinion and not a recommendation from the World Health Organization or the CDC. And speaking of CDC, here is what they say about Truvada: "The pill is for people who do not have HIV but who are at substantial risk of getting it, ... "At substantial risk" means you regularly have unprotected sex with partners of unknown HIV status."

 

This is 2014, we know how HIV is transmitted. We're no longer in 1980.

 

If you use condoms but have sex with hundreds of people a year from all over the world as you do, wouldn't it be better you use a condom and take truvada to lower your risk further? You have this strange and naive belief that if you use condoms you can have sex with as many people from wherever because you're "safe."

 

Thank you for your "advice", but you're not my doctor. I know how to protect myself and stay healthy. I've been in the sex industry for a long time. And please don't say what other people SHOULD do to lower their risk.

 

Does anyone here actually hire you after seeing how you behave and think?

 

Please do not worry about my business, but start taking care of yours.

 

As posted recently in this Forum by another member, here's something for you to read and ponder.

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

[Steven_Draker]

Lamb skin condoms are preferred by some because they feel better, but they offer NO protection against HIV or herpes.

 

Which sensible person on Earth uses Lamb skin condoms that offer NO protection against HIV??

 

"Had he been using Truvada he would have had protection against HIV, maybe not 100% but close to it and a heck of a lot more than using those condoms"

 

Your pointless speculations are becoming more foolish and absurd.