Boy, am I dummy

[+ SundayZip]

It started on a weekend trip to Montreal in May 2013. I met Martin (not his real name) at the Campus and decided he was absolutely perfect for me. We did a bunch of lap dances and then a couple hotel shows that weekend. I went back in August and again, Martin made several visits to my hotel. Then again in November he visited my hotel a few times and I took him out for dinner after one of the visits. I sort of knew this next thing was coming (he had dropped some hints)... He showed me the bill for his college course and associated books and fees. I gave him some extra to pay the bill. Oh well, I figured. Why not?

 

So here I am in Montreal again. Just had my second visit from Martin and surprise, surprise!... He told me about the bill for his next college course. I told him I'd give it some thought. We were supposed to get together again on Sunday, but I just sent him a text cancelling. His response was quite terse. No doubt he had been counting on the money. I suppose I could have kept the hotel appointment and just said no to any additional donations, but something in my head is telling me that I've let it go too far with this guy. I'm in danger of losing my perspective.

 

It was a nice run Martin, and it might have lasted longer, but you pushed just a bit too hard. Oh well. Live and learn.

[Atlantagaguy]

Well I don’t think you’re a Dummy! We do get caught up in these relationships and I hate to so say most are superficial. I met a guy just the other day talking about the guys he has met in the strip clubs and how much he love one of the boys. He also talks about how he had spent close to $2000 on one of them. I was actually sad for him and also for me; because I had been in the same situation. As much as I love going to the strip clubs and also using an escort, in the end I have a major emptiness in my life after these events. For me I would give up my strip clubs and escort if only I had someone to share my life with.

[+ nycman]

I don't think you're dumb at all. Quite the opposite.

 

You had fun.

 

You gave money freely.

 

You cut if off when it got outside your comfort zone.

 

You've learned some valuable lessons.

 

I don't see any of that as stupid.

[bigvalboy]

I agree with nycman. I don't see anything that is stupid either. I loan money to some of these kids periodically from the strip clubs. The ones I know fairly well will occasionally run into a little financial trouble. You have to play it by ear. Every situation and every person is different, so you often just have to go with your gut. When all is said and done, it is your money. If your going to lose sleep over it, then most likely it isn't worth it.

[Jake]

I don't think you're dumb at all. Quite the opposite.

 

You had fun.

 

You gave money freely.

 

You cut if off when it got outside your comfort zone.

 

You've learned some valuable lessons.

 

I don't see any of that as stupid.

 

Standing O... well put.

[Irtwo]

He showed me the bill for his college course and associated books and fees.

 

I'm impressed the guy actually showed you the bill. At least you know his request was legit.

[+ newatthis]

It started on a weekend trip to Montreal in May 2013. I met Martin (not his real name) at the Campus and decided he was absolutely perfect for me. We did a bunch of lap dances and then a couple hotel shows that weekend. I went back in August and again, Martin made several visits to my hotel. Then again in November he visited my hotel a few times and I took him out for dinner after one of the visits. I sort of knew this next thing was coming (he had dropped some hints)... He showed me the bill for his college course and associated books and fees. I gave him some extra to pay the bill. Oh well, I figured. Why not?

 

So here I am in Montreal again. Just had my second visit from Martin and surprise, surprise!... He told me about the bill for his next college course. I told him I'd give it some thought. We were supposed to get together again on Sunday, but I just sent him a text cancelling. His response was quite terse. No doubt he had been counting on the money. I suppose I could have kept the hotel appointment and just said no to any additional donations, but something in my head is telling me that I've let it go too far with this guy. I'm in danger of losing my perspective....

 

I don't think you're dumb at all. Quite the opposite.

 

You had fun.

 

You gave money freely.

 

You cut if off when it got outside your comfort zone.

 

You've learned some valuable lessons.

 

I don't see any of that as stupid.

While I completely agree with nycman, I'm wondering (not quite enough information in your post) whether something else might be possible. You think that he's absolutely perfect for you -- the multiple hires over 4 separate trips to Montreal imply that you still believe this. He is upfront with you about what he needs the money for, even shows you the bill (yes, I know he could show a bill and use the money for something else; I'm trusting your judgment here). He even responds to your cancellation text -- many guys in this situation would drop you cold without even a terse response.

 

Why not get everything out in the open with him -- meet with him over a drink or coffee and explain that you might be willing to make some arrangement with him...so much tuition money in exchange for whatever long-term hiring arrangement you would like? Surely part of your unease is the nickel-and-diming aspect, the sense that you don't know when he'll ask next or for how much and the fear of escalating monetary demands. And one could imagine a similar unease on his part about where the next tuition payment is coming from. By putting this on an open, adult basis, you both might feel better (and have better sex ). These kinds of arrangements are hardly new!

 

(However, if "I'm in danger of losing my perspective" means that you're afraid of falling into a one-sided emotional involvement, it's good that you walked away now.)

[Karl-G]

Not Dumb at All

 

I think you are a very blessed man. You had a number of very enjoyable encounters with Martin over a fairly long period of time.

 

Many clients give their escorts expensive gifts like the latest i-phone or name brand clothes. You gave Martin something of incomparable value - help in getting a college education. The fact that you don't feel comfortable giving more doesn't make you or Martin dumb or bad; it is a reasonable attitude. Martin is working to make money.

 

I agree with newatthis that an open conversation with Martin would probably be best if you have any desire to see him again. Any close relationship has stresses at times. Don't let this stop your relationship if you really like/enjoy Martin. And you might say you could help him to a certain amount once or twice a year, if that would be your choice. You are not throwing money away, or on drugs, or on clothes discarded after a couple wearings, but you are giving something of incalculable value, even if Martin might not understand that fully right now. But you have no obligation to be Martin's personal ATM either.

[+ nycman]

newatthis (although I suspect notsonew) and Karl-G both of those

are wonderful posts that provide invaluable insight and sage advice.

 

When this board is good it's great!

[Diverdan]

Sundayzip... for what it is worth, I agree with nycman and Karl-G on their comments. I had a "relationship" many years ago with a man who had just divorced his wife and had started escorting on the side to make extra money to help support his ex and his son. Although we lived some distance apart, we saw each other on a regular basis for several years. At various times he would ask me for a bit more than his usual fee, and I freely obliged. On a couple of occasions I spent a day with him and his son, being introduced as a friend, and we had a great time. However, the last few times we were together, the requests grew in amount and frequency. While I really liked him, I eventually broke it off, but we had a very open and frank conversation about why it was not good for us to continue to see each other. He eventually agreed and we parted as friends. I saw him quite by accident several years later, and he thanked me for being so open and honest with him. He said he still recalled our time together with great fondness, he had stopped his escorting and had a great new job that paid him a lot more money than he was making when I met him. The moral of this post from me, is to simply encourage you to have a frank and open conversation with "Martin". What ever happens after that will be great, regardless of the outcome, but you should never conside yourself stupid for doing what you wanted to do at the time.

[+ SundayZip]

Back home again with a refreshed perspective. Your comments and insights have definitely helped. So has the fact that a couple days have passed. I suppose my only lingering regret is that I did not have a conversation with Martin about my concerns; what I was comfortable with, and what not. But then again, I would have had to pay him for his time just to have that conversation. Soooo, maybe no regrets after all. I may even contact him again on another trip to Montreal. If he's willing that would be neat. If not, que será, será.

 

You guys are amazing. Thanks!

[BallerBoy]

Don't blame Martin, he only did what any decent hustler is suppose to do. If you don't ask, how can you receive?

As for your own actions; I'd say you got what you wanted in return for your generosity so it's a win win for everyone.

[Amoco]

So if I'm understanding these responses, the majority opinion is that hustlers hustle and as long as everything is out in the open among consenting adults, it's all fair game, right? If that is a correct interpretation of the current thread, I'd like to offer a dissenting view.

 

First, the part that I agree with is that consenting adults have the unalienable right to live their life as they choose and do what they want with whoever they want to provided everyone is in agreement and able to make informed decisions.

 

The problem, however, is that this perspective does not and can not make allowances for the complicated dynamics related to escort-client relationships. For example, there are unconscious dynamics at work when a potentially seductive escort uses his status in the relationship to ask for a payment not consistent with his published or previously stated rates. I've never seen anybody say that there rates were "a semester of college credit". Instead, they'll publish an hourly rate and are obviously free to spend it any way they choose to. However, when they agree to that published rate, go through with the appointment, have a good time and go back to the client with another request, that feels wrong to me, almost like a bait and switch. Frankly, at times it looks a lot like the grooming that goes on with sex offenders and their prey.

 

Now before anybody starts sending me PMs, I realize that consenting adults are free to make whatever decision they want and a client can always say "No", but there's a power balance that exists in any interaction and based on my own personal experience, when escorts utilize their status based on a powerfully positive experience in bed to get more than was initially agreed to, that's manipulative at best and abusive at it's most extreme. I understand the client can reject the request, but that can be difficult, especialky in the afterglow.

 

I believe professional escorts publish rates and should get paid exactly what everybody agrees to for their time. If they want to, a client is certainly free to give a tip. But when tips morph into a semester of college, something else is going on. I suppose it's possible to be 'fully informed' and capable of making clear decisions.

 

I understand the freedoms we live with, but in the scheme of things, I see that as wrong regardless of the ability of the client to agree or not to. The truth is that I think it diminishes the escort one way or another. Can you imagine being asked by any other service provider to throw in a semester of school?

[+ SundayZip]

Thanks for your thoughts on this topic Amoco. I mostly agree with you, especially your comments about the complicated dynamics in an escort-client relationship. The escort (in my case, a stripper earning some extra on the side) can use their power status in the relationship to ask for and receive more in compensation than was originally discussed with the client.

 

Part of me thinks, sure, why not? It's a business and business is about earning money. The client can always so no.

 

On the other hand, it's bad business to exploit a client when their defenses are down. As with any business dealing with a customer, it's in the best interest of the escort to also look out for the best interest of their customer. Keep your customer happy and feeling like they're being treated fairly and they'll continue to come back for more.

 

I don't really see Martin's behavior as abusive. I think he's actually a pretty sweet guy. If he were business, I'd say his requests for additional money were just "bad business". But I can't really say he's in business. He's just a young guy trying pay his bills and trying to figure things out.

[Amoco]

Respectfully, it sounds like what he figured out is that certain clients will give more if you ask them to under certain circumstances....

 

We can all agree that anybody has the right to ask for anything, and though I don't know him, we may all agree that Martin is a sweet kid who meant no harm and for the most part, has character. But that's not the question at hand...

 

My only point is that we're being naive if we view these interactions as straightforward and simply involving a request and a response from consenting adults - and I should stress that the power imbalance can work in either direction, and it is equally possible that clients can take advantage of escorts who may be broke or needy in some other significant way.

 

Maybe I'm the exception, but I think these relationships are difficult over time and like most human interactions, are informed by a multitude of uniquely personal experiences prior to, during and after the session. To my mind, that's the reason for professionalism in the way business is conducted. As soon as you step off the agreed upon path, all kinds of misunderstandings and hurt feelings can occur. Bending over backwards to continually see an escort who made a mistake as "just doing their best to get by" is insulting to those who don't operate like that, dimishes the profession (if it is ever to be one), and ultimately reinforces the notion of the "escort as hustler" paradigm.

 

I think what Martin did was wrong -it's not a felony or the most serious crime imaginable, but it raises important issues that all clients and escorts should be mindful of in going forward.

[Newly]

Wow Sundayzip, been there, done that. In my case the escort is above reproach, it's not him, it's me. If this guy wanted to he could walk me to the bank and have me empty out my account - and then throw in my RIA for good measure. The only reason he hasn't is because he's an incredibly good human being. For what it's worth you're not alone in thinking that you would throw it all out for a real relationship. I realize that there's something very broken in me to get into this situation, and although some people can simply do this as a business relationship - so much money for you doing so and so - maybe others can't. These relationships are difficult, as Amoco points out, and for at least some of us sometimes I think we're playing with fire - and maybe that's part of the rush?

[thickornotatall]

It's not so easy to pull away once the game begins....Although you may have feelings for him...he only has feelings for your wallet and the ability to access it....If you can walk away and not be pulled back..good for you...We all develop a crush on the guy that gives us what we want.....when it becomes too expensive...too needy..to pushy..time to move on....Easy to be hard....I had a guy call me and say..."It's my birthday"..."I need to add minutes to my cell phone"...so?...Happy Birthday to you..I bet you don't know my birthday...I need minutes also..tit for tat?....parts can be replaced...emotions?...not so easy...sometimes my mind wanders back to the good times....Now it's time for you to make new memories....move on..I did....no regrets....