Security Clearances

[+ Gar1eth]

I am going to assume- and I might be wrong about this-that there might be some members of the Forum who have security clearances and work for the government. Or if there aren't, then there are bound to be people on the Forum who know such people. Now I'm not talking high level-life or death type security clearance. But I've often wondered since I've heard that the State Dept- and possibly other Federal Departments -have a lot of gay men working for them- how would contributing to this Forum/hiring escorts affect their ability to get a job during background checking?

 

I realize no one is going to admit to being a James Bond on here- but it was a subject I've often wondered about regarding your average- say low level consulate official.

 

 

 

Gman

[+ not2rowdy]

Read this for an overview. No guarantees that info is current - and none is from truly official sources.

From wikipedia.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_clearance#United_States

 

At the bottom of that page click on:

US

(DoD) Factors Used for Determining Security Clearance Approval/Disapproval

 

that will take you here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blsecmenu.htm

 

towards the bottom of that page click on

Sexual behavior

 

that will take you here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blsecsexual.htm

[marylander1940]

I am going to assume- and I might be wrong about this-that there might be some members of the Forum who have security clearances and work for the government. Or if there aren't, then there are bound to be people on the Forum who know such people. Now I'm not talking high level-life or death type security clearance. But I've often wondered since I've heard that the State Dept- and possibly other Federal Departments -have a lot of gay men working for them- how would contributing to this Forum/hiring escorts affect their ability to get a job during background checking?

 

I realize no one is going to admit to being a James Bond on here- but it was a subject I've often wondered about regarding your average- say low level consulate official.

 

 

 

Gman

 

How your job search going?

 

If you were offered a great job but if would require you to quit the forum, what would you choose?

[jimboivyo]

How your job search going?

 

If you were offered a great job but if would require you to quit the forum, what would you choose?

 

laughed out loud on that one. as if there would be some lengthy decision there

 

a job puts food on the table. a great job secures your future. you've already got your answer right there

[+ Gar1eth]

How your job search going?

 

If you were offered a great job but if would require you to quit the forum, what would you choose?

 

laughed out loud on that one. as if there would be some lengthy decision there

 

a job puts food on the table. a great job secures your future. you've already got your answer right there

 

Yes, I thought it was a strange and obvious question too.

 

I'd have to go for the job of course. And no I haven't done any looking lately- rock and a hard place.

 

Gman

[marylander1940]

laughed out loud on that one. as if there would be some lengthy decision there

 

a job puts food on the table. a great job secures your future. you've already got your answer right there

 

No doubt! I agree with you, but my question was for Gar1eth not for you.

 

http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quotes/quote-Jose-Ortega-y-Gasset-i-am-i-plus-my-circumstances-16216.png

 

Yes, I thought it was a strange and obvious question too.

 

I'd have to go for the job of course. And no I haven't done any looking lately- rock and a hard place.

 

Gman

 

Rock and a hard place? As long as you keep looking you have hope.

 

You told me this forum was one of the most important things in your life, I'm glad we're both on the same page and you would appreciate getting a job more.

 

Besides it seems like an avalanche of members will leave this forum now that we all realized we can meet escorts on grindr. and only pay 125!

[+ Gar1eth]

You told me this forum was one of the most important things in your life, I'm glad we're both on the same page and you would appreciate getting a job more.

 

 

I've always liked the Forum. My statement that it was/is one of the more important things in my life currently is because it fills up a lot of my lonely hours. And there are a lot of them- 90% or more of my life is spent by myself on a routine basis with the remaining 10% made of fleeting encounters at restaurants with servers or cashiers at the grocery store. The New York Times App and my Kindle have been very important over the last 16 months also.

 

Gman

[+ not2rowdy]

I thought more about your question. You're probably not the only one who has an interest. And I'm probably a good person to answer it further. I once had a high security clearance. But some two decades have now passed since that time. And during my classified material access I had not yet participated in "abhorrent sexual behavior" - to use the term for that era.

 

A lot of things have changed since that time. It is no longer illegal to be gay and serve in the military or federal service.

 

Now a lot of what follows is what I remember from 2 decades ago and things I've read in unclassified sources since. So it may be somewhat out of date. But, it's likely still a good overall guide.

 

Now to your question.

As the level of security clearance goes up (Confidential > Secret > Top Secret) the investigation you will face (NAC-LRC > BI > SSBI) will become more intrusive.

 

Almost all military personal have at least a Confidential security clearance. The investigation that goes with it - the National Agency Check - Local Records Check - is not too intrusive. It is primarily "paper" focused. Things that be be derived from school, public records, credit reports, etc. There may be an interview. Especially if something in the "paperwork" raises a concern flag.

 

The mid-level Secret security clearance is more thorough in the supporting investigation. You will almost certainly have an interview. Other people will likely be interviewed about you. Your "paper" life will be more thoroughly checked.

 

The high level Top Secret security clearance will be very intrusive in it's Single Scope Background Investigation. You will be interviewed. Your "references" will be interviewed. References of your references will be interviewed. Your teachers, clergy, bartender, boyfriend and aunt twice removed may be interviewed. Your "paper" life will be thoroughly investigated. You may be required to submit to a polygraph - especially if you are being considered for "Special Compartmented Information". The questions during the interviews will likely get quite personal.

 

In all cases - don't lie!!!

 

A big concern with all security clearances is whether you could be subject to coercion or blackmail.

In the case of your sexual orientation I would suggest you be up front - they will find out anyway.

 

The areas that typically cause automatic concern during an investigation are:

An impression of "evasiveness" in your answers by the interviewer

Financial problems

Family problems

Close relationships with foreign nationals

Legal problems

Criminal activity

I'm sure there's more….

 

None of these automatic concerns will necessarily exclude being granted a security clearance (except maybe criminal activity). But will likely result in delay of security issuance for further investigation. And may limit the highest level of clearance that may be granted.

 

Again - don't lie!!! If they find out you've lied you are unlikely to be granted a clearance. And, if you are a member of the military, might be charged under the UCMJ and prosecuted.

[+ Gar1eth]

I thought more about your question. You're probably not the only one who has an interest. And I'm probably a good person to answer it further. I once had a high security clearance. But some two decades have now passed since that time. And during my classified material access I had not yet participated in "abhorrent sexual behavior" - to use the term for that era.

 

A lot of things have changed since that time. It is no longer illegal to be gay and serve in the military or federal service.

 

Now a lot of what follows is what I remember from 2 decades ago and things I've read in unclassified sources since. So it may be somewhat out of date. But, it's likely still a good overall guide.

 

Now to your question.

As the level of security clearance goes up (Confidential > Secret > Top Secret) the investigation you will face (NAC-LRC > BI > SSBI) will become more intrusive.

 

Almost all military personal have at least a Confidential security clearance. The investigation that goes with it - the National Agency Check - Local Records Check - is not too intrusive. It is primarily "paper" focused. Things that be be derived from school, public records, credit reports, etc. There may be an interview. Especially if something in the "paperwork" raises a concern flag.

 

The mid-level Secret security clearance is more thorough in the supporting investigation. You will almost certainly have an interview. Other people will likely be interviewed about you. Your "paper" life will be more thoroughly checked.

 

The high level Top Secret security clearance will be very intrusive in it's Single Scope Background Investigation. You will be interviewed. Your "references" will be interviewed. References of your references will be interviewed. Your teachers, clergy, bartender, boyfriend and aunt twice removed may be interviewed. Your "paper" life will be thoroughly investigated. You may be required to submit to a polygraph - especially if you are being considered for "Special Compartmented Information". The questions during the interviews will likely get quite personal.

 

In all cases - don't lie!!!

 

A big concern with all security clearances is whether you could be subject to coercion or blackmail.

In the case of your sexual orientation I would suggest you be up front - they will find out anyway.

 

The areas that typically cause automatic concern during an investigation are:

An impression of "evasiveness" in your answers by the interviewer

Financial problems

Family problems

Close relationships with foreign nationals

Legal problems

Criminal activity

I'm sure there's more….

 

None of these automatic concerns will necessarily exclude being granted a security clearance (except maybe criminal activity). But will likely result in delay of security issuance for further investigation. And may limit the highest level of clearance that may be granted.

 

Again - don't lie!!! If they find out you've lied you are unlikely to be granted a clearance. And, if you are a member of the military, might be charged under the UCMJ and prosecuted.

 

You've given a lot of good information. From this though I'm thinking it would be better for anyone who has hired an escort not to go for a governmental security clearance.

 

Gman

[+ ArVaGuy]

I can reiterate Not2Rowdy's description of the process. I've lived in DC for 25 years and several of my business associates and friends have gotten security clearances. Thus I've been interviewed several times most recently a year ago for a former employee. It's an interesting process to experience discussing someone who is a friend under such circumstances. It was my sense that the agent expected certain answers would verify what the government already knew. And was looking for any red flags.

 

Two of my gay friends have very high level clearances. One at NSA the other in an enforcement agency. I asked them about the gay issue and they made clear they disclosed such info very early in the hiring process. Tell the truth and there's no issue. Hide it and they find out its a big deal. And they will find out.

 

Both guys are ex military and one got his clearance around DADT. All he will say is the fact he is gay was put to use overseas. I'm assuming the male version of the "honey trap" played out in some manner.

[+ not2rowdy]

You've given a lot of good information. From this though I'm thinking it would be better for anyone who has hired an escort not to go for a governmental security clearance.

 

Gman

 

I think what is important is to be up front if you're asked. I suspect there are lots of straight guys who have hired female escorts.

 

If you say you are gay / bi, not in a close relationship but playing the field, that should not disqualify you.

 

Now the discussion of whether hiring a male escort (for their time) is legal or illegal is another subject.

 

What the government wants to know is that you don't put yourself in a position of being able to be coerced or blackmailed.

 

Don't lie!

 

End decision can't be guaranteed. Probably depends on the interviewer. Not everything will be fair.

 

Feel free to PM me.

[+ not2rowdy]

If you are "out" in regards to your sexual preference I see no reason not to pursue the job opportunity. Or to cease participating in this forum. Just be upfront so the government has no concerns of sexual orientation being used as coercion or blackmail against you.

 

If you are hiding your sexual orientation from your wife you may want to reconsider the job. Especially if you will be needing a Secret or Top Secret Clearance.

 

You want to be in a position that if a hired escort or boyfriend tries to blackmail you can say something like:

"I hold a government security clearance."

"I stated my sexual orientation when I was interviewed for my security clearance so I have nothing to hide from them."

"But I'll report you for trying to blackmail me. I suspect you will get be getting your interview soon - hope it doesn't go well for you."

 

That doesn't mean you're off the hook with the government if he does continue with the blackmail attempt - but it would certainly be looked at as a positive mitigating action on your part for reporting it.

 

When I had classified material access the internet was in its infancy. There wasn't much in way of forums and social media sites. There were no huge government supercomputer complexes sucking up data.

 

So today when you go through a security investigation it is likely both your physical and electronic fingerprints will be checked. The depth of the electronic check will increase as the level of clearance increases.

 

They will likely check obvious places like Facebook. For high level clearances I have no idea of the depths they may go to ferret out your life.

 

You may be interviewed more than once. That's not necessarily a cause for concern. One of the interviews may be more towards the end of the overall investigation process - after they have already done interviews with your references, bartender and former boyfriend. You will not know who has been interviewed. They may already know the answer to questions they ask - and you should assume that when you make your response. They may be testing you.

 

So don't lie!!

[+ Gar1eth]

Thanks for all the advice. This has nothing to do with a job for me (I wish). On Queerty there was an article on a new independent movie about the world's first gay secret agent. It made me think about security clearances.

 

Gman

[+ not2rowdy]

Thanks for all the advice. This has nothing to do with a job for me (I wish). On Queerty there was an article on a new independent movie about the world's first gay secret agent. It made me think about security clearances.

 

Gman

 

That's fine too. There may be someone else searching for the same info. Now there's thread on the subject.

[marylander1940]

Thanks for all the advice. This has nothing to do with a job for me (I wish). On Queerty there was an article on a new independent movie about the world's first gay secret agent. It made me think about security clearances.

 

Gman

 

Damn... I thought we were all helping you and you were asking for a genuine advice.

 

Late April fools joke?

[+ Funguy]

How your job search going?

 

If you were offered a great job but if would require you to quit the forum, what would you choose?

 

Easy. Job BUT, rejoin the forum with your own computer, device, what-have-you, change you handle and your avatar, and you are good to go! Love to keep you and your tallywhacker.

[marylander1940]

Easy. Job BUT, rejoin the forum with your own computer, device, what-have-you, change you handle and your avatar, and you are good to go! Love to keep you and your tallywhacker.

 

Exactly! "I can't quit you man".

[instudiocity]

Besides it seems like an avalanche of members will leave this forum now that we all realized we can meet escorts on grindr. and only pay 125!

I think I'd go up to 175 for a quality repeat appointment Grindr guy.

[UconnFlyer]

I don't think being gay would be a problem, however I'm not so sure about hiring. The government would likely view someone who hires escorts as having a higher probability of being subject to blackmail/coercion since there's always a chance an escort could try and blackmail you.

 

There's also the more obvious issue that hiring an escort is really walking a fine line legally. I'm not sure the government wants to give clearances to those who push the boundaries of our legal system. Granted, given the behavior of many of our politicians and other government officials, it's a bit hypocritical to put it mildly.

[Str8boyluvr]

Having been through a DIA background check for a security clearance ( to do R&D work at NIH with viruses) - they basically look for things for which you could be bribed or blackmailed. Therefore, being open and honest about your sexual orientation and demonstrating it cannot be used against you - essentially removes it as a barrier to clearance. As a prior post stated - finances are a very big element of the check as well as your relationships.

 

Having hired an escort would not count against you unless you shared information that could be used against you - again as a bribe or blackmail attempt.

 

And I totally agree with the "don't lie" advice. These agents are like good lawyers - they never ask a question they don't already know the answer to.

[+ not2rowdy]

I don't think being gay would be a problem, however I'm not so sure about hiring….

 

I recall foreign port call visits by Navy ships from my younger days. While certainly not stated - I'm certain that the availability of local talent for sailor and marine corp recreation was often a consideration towards which ports would be visited. Overseas bases, for all the military services, often had established provider infrastructure right outside their main gate. That local talent was certainly aware of the value of their services.

 

If there is a coercion attempt against you - report it!

 

A more serious relationship involving a foreign national needs to reported - in fact you are required to do so. As long as they are from a friendly country (like NATO) you will likely be able to keep some level of security clearance. Expect to be interviewed more often.

 

There's also the more obvious issue that hiring an escort is really walking a fine line legally. I'm not sure the government wants to give clearances to those who push the boundaries of our legal system….

 

Not to be taken too seriously as advice - but maybe consider including a restaurant meal as part of your "for time only" session and save the receipt.

 

….As a prior post stated - finances are a very big element of the check...

 

….These agents are like good lawyers - they never ask a question they don't already know the answer to.

 

Both very, very true.

 

And, just like the experienced escorts who post here, there's probably nothing you tell them that they haven't heard before.