THIRTEEN

[Rod Hagen]

So, did you feel that this film was shot with such "flair and fury, it's as if the camera were jutting out of the director's heart"?

 

Thought the Art house techniques were heavy handed, faux-documentary tones, yet the acting was spot-on, and I can't disagree that the story has real power, and, unfortunately, truth.

 

Amused by the reaction of the "Kids" in the audience, they all acted as if they did not like it; perhaps honestly, but I suspect they wanted to seem cool in front of their friends (of course the reality being that they are JUST that way . And what the hell are they doing, parentless, in a R-rated film anyway?)

 

Thoughts?

[bigguyinpasadena]

Rod,I walked out of this film.

Hmmmm,Here is an Idea how about a triple bill,Mommie Dearest-White Oleander-Thirteen!I can just see millions of angst filled teage girls runiing rampant in the streets.Mayhem and Matracide to follow!The M&M tour!

[Rod Hagen]

>Rod,I walked out of this film.

 

I don't want to shatter my glass house, having walked out of Jeremy Iron's "Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen" recently, but wasn't that an overreaction on your part? It's not as if this was Jason vs. Freddy, it was intelligent, reality-based, and brilliantly cast. Indulgent and overwraught? You bet. But you have to expect that from most indie films.

 

For those of us Males without prospects of rearing our own kids we can't pull any Cautionary lesson out of shock films like the 1997 "wake-up" call, "KIDS". But there is something nostalgic here. After all, who didn't know Nikki (Evie) in Jr. High?

 

My class, the same 28 students from Kindergarten to graduation day, in my hometown, population 650, had its own Nikki in the form of a powerful gal named Janelle. By the 2nd grade she commanded us all, effortlessly. Everyone wanted to be her friend, and whoever wasn't would have none. Come 6th grade she was empress dowager of the entire elementary; teachers, despite themselves, often bowed to her influence. Scary shit to a kid who believed that teachers were supposed to be the last word on all things. Then came 7th grade.

 

Now in hic towns such as my home, there exists no separation between Jr. High and High School students. A 12-year old could, quite possibly, share locker space with a senior. And while this was initially quite intimidating, comfort came quickly in the form of the reassuring presence of siblings, as well as the already-familiar friends of those siblings, who walked the same halls. The effect for power-mad girls (yes girls, do young boys ever rule over their peers in that emasculating way, do they ever even care about such politics to even bother?) transitioning from elementary was that nobody cared about the old games. Why would they when so many other, older, cool people were about?

 

But Janelle was smart, in fact years later she graduated near the top of the class (ok, as I've said it was composed of only 28 students, farm kids all, that may not sound so impressive to you urbanites), and she simply responded by to the change in power by becoming wild, very very very wild. And I saw so much of her in Eva in this film: smart shoplifter, book-smart, good with drugs, good with booze, good with boys, good with teachers, manipulative and charismatic as hell, pierced everywhere she could, cherry-popped at 12 years old, sexually aware and active from then on, dressed like a slut, required very little sleep, and living in a loving crazy family whose dialogue drifted from "Fuck" to "Fuck" to "fuck". I remember seeing her mom smack her, she smacked her mom back, they both said something to the tune of "fuck you", and then the two of us walked out of the house-Janelle smoking a cigarette, and me walking bowlegged, hyper-conscious of the Jack Daniels bottles (2, pints not liters) stuffed down my pants-legs, swipped from her parent's stash just before the slapfest-and into a friend's waiting car. We were all 13.

 

Doesn't everybody remember this girl? Quick answer for everything. She never got caught, she was the best drinker you knew, could place 2nd in the 100 meter dash the morning after an all night gravel-pit party, smoked pot before you even had your first orgasm. Had sex with whomever she wanted whenever she wanted. All at a VERY young age. Remember her? Well, she's in the movie Thirteen. Go see it.

 

At the very least I think this film raises some child-porn questions. Currently one girl, Nikki the co-writer whose life this is based on, is 15 years old, and the other is nearly 16. The "line" is that they were both 13 when filming began. It's possible, but considering how quickly films are made these days, I suppose it's more likely that they were both 13 in the planning stages, but once filming began at least the older one must have been 14. Or not, doesn't matter. What does matter is that if you do an internet search on these two, you'll find ROOMFULLS of people talking, reluctantly, about how sexy the actresses are. If you remember L.I.E. received a NC-17 rating and the only physical contact between the predator and the boy was his hand on the youngster's leg. Jodie Foster, at 12, pulling at Robert Dinero's fly while asking him, "How do you want it?" That's one thing, but these two, supposedly actual, 13 year olds were mashing, tongues and all, with each other on the bedroom floor, and then went on to take turns, again together, kissing, again with tongues, a man who most certainly is an adult. Isn't this perhaps too voyeristic?

 

All sorts of interesting stuff here. Walking out was a bizarre choice, methinks. Or not. I hope you didn't spend money on concessions before you walked out.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>For those of us Males without prospects of rearing our own

>kids we can't pull any Cautionary lesson out of shock films

>like the 1997 "wake-up" call, "KIDS".

 

You're right to put "wake-up" in quotes. Being fairly familiar with Larry Clark's photographic oeuvre before he made kids, I think one valid interpretation is that he's a voyeur, and the AIDS subplot was his attempt to cover his ass by making sure something bad happpens to the naughty teenagers he's been watching. I don't think he was trying to issue a wake-up call; I think the wake-up call was a way to take the spotlight off his voyeurism, which is, problematically, the source of what's most authentic about his work, the source of his considerable gifts as a photographer and filmmaker. (There is a beautiful formalism to his work, achieved with a reliance on simple means and available light.)

 

But for better or for worse he IS making a film about these kids -- the screenplay was written by one of them, Harmony Korine -- and the film is depicting things that really do happen, and it both makes sense and doesn't make sense that people were upset to see gawky, awkward, real teenagers playing teenagers having sex instead of young adults playing teenagers having sex. "90210" sex glamourizes teen sexuality; "Kids" manages to be both grimly realistic and defiantly beautiful: as awkward as they are, there is also something sensuous and at times even radiant about the way he renders them.

 

I haven't seen "Thirteen" yet, but want to -- I loved your vivid post about it. The implications of the child porn question are troubling, but unless the solution is to bar films from dealing with the topic of youthful sexuality in a frank way, I have a hard time knowing how to reconcile that valid concern with the feeling that this girl WROTE it and had already LIVED the story, so how can you not let her play herself? And isn't it irresponsible in a different way to have adults playing thirteen-year-olds? It sounds to me like the movie you're describing, whatever pornographic uses some viewers might unfortunately put it to, is first and foremost a work of art, and as such should enjoy a certain amount of leeway.

 

Then again, did you catch the interview with Gary Coleman in last Sunday's Washington Post? He actually puts forth the suggestion that child actors be replaced with computer animation. "They can make dinosaurs," he said. "Let them make children too." That's how he feels about what child stardom and "Diff'rent Strokes" meant to his life. Of course, he wasn't writing his show.

[Rick Munroe]

>Doesn't everybody remember this girl? Quick answer for

>everything. She never got caught, she was the best drinker

>you knew, could place 2nd in the 100 meter dash the morning

>after an all night gravel-pit party, smoked pot before you

>even had your first orgasm. Had sex with whomever she wanted

>whenever she wanted. All at a VERY young age. Remember her?

 

I don't remember this girl. Every girl in my class was a Jappy Jewish honor student. She never got caught because she never did anything bad, she was the best shopper with her very own Bloomie's card, could place 2nd in a mid-term the morning after a good night's sleep in her Ralph Lauren 200+ thread count sheets, never smoked or had sex but she could recite all the lyrics to every song ever written by Debbie Gibson. All at a very young age.

[Rick Munroe]

>He actually puts forth the

>suggestion that child actors be replaced with computer

>animation.

 

That would really suck. The best thing about child actors is when they just recite their memorized lines with zero feeling (think Little Ricky or the Olsen Twins on Full House). Computer kids would be able to act! :-(