The Fab Fifteen

[Chuck50]

RE: forget the Fab 5 ....

 

I recently have gotten Digital Cable. Comes with the Job and didnt know I had all these stations. Checked after all the fuss on here about Fab 5 and Boy meets Boy Bravo Channel. Tonite I watched what I am sure was a re-run of Fab 5 it was where they were re-making a former Navy Guy, Cowboy at heart. John Bergman I think was his name? I really liked what I saw. I saw 5 guys really trying to help another guy out and make his life better for whatever the reason his GF or what Idon't care to figure it out. I didn't look at it as negative or sterotypic. I really kinda enjoyed for all it was worth. Thanks Guys. Hope someone would wanna help me out whether I was seeking a guy or a gal. But most likely with me would be a guy. HUGS Chuck50 A young one at that. :9 :9 :9

[Paul Revere]

>What bothered me about "Queer Eye" was not the queer "types"

>but the fact that the guys are seen simply as facilitators for

>heterosexual romance. There is no information about any of

>them beyond their roles as advisors--where did they acquire

>this so-called expertise? If one is queeny, does that give one

>an automatic fashion sense? The guy who did the clothes seemed

>to have horrible taste for himself. How did they get involved

>in such an enterprise, and what are their relationships among

>themselves? Nothing is said about their lives, professional or

>personal, outside of this show, although we are told a good

>deal about the straight man and his girlfriend (both of whom,

>in this episode, were much more attractive than the guys).

 

Actually if you go to the Bravo website, it has bios of each of the five guys. I was more impressed after I read about their experience and credentials. Again, I don't really care about their personal lives or thier relationships.

 

I still tink that the grooming guy's hair usually looks like crap, and he should fix the fashion guy's hair too. The fashion guy does have lousy taste, but he may just be trying to match the subjects style.

 

I can't take the show too seriously, its just meant to be fun. And as I have said before, unlike the other silly makeover shows (Fashion Emergency, Trading Spaces), at least Queer Eye admits that all of the makeover "experts" are gay!

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>>I thought the last part of the show, where the five are

>>reduced to remote observers of the heterosexual drama--almost

>>peeping toms--summarized the underlying message of the show, which

>>is that they are living vicariously through this straight

>>couple.

 

I don't think the show's format supports that interpretation. The Fab 5 are presented as men on a mission. At the beginning of the show, they review their "intelligence" on their subject (the straight guy) and vaguely outline a plan of attack. The straight guy is presented as someone they don't know and are in the process of quickly sizing up. The reason they watch the show at the end is that, just like in the movies their format is loosely spoofing, they've had time to bond with their subject. It's also an expression of their power. They're not being banished to the servant's quarters. They're enjoying the fruits of their labor in a more fabulous apartment on a wide screen TV over a cocktail. They're enjoying the cushy part of their jobs. They're doing what half of America wishes it could figure out a way to do -- they're getting paid to watch television, in this case a show largely of their own creation. I'd buy into the "vicarious living message" argument a little more if the show felt obligated to make the Fab 5 go to a new post-makeover party with their "new friends" every week. Then it really would look like they had no lives. ;-)

 

>That's what I meant in my initial post when I said that the

>gay men are sort of substitutes for straight women. Their job

>is to help the straight man get His Woman, not to help him get

>a job, or to make a speech, or -- God forbid -- just to make

>himself and his surroundings more civilized.

 

If their job is to help him get his woman, that doesn't make them subsitutes for the women. It makes them substitutes for the straight guys' current group of friends, who by the looks of things haven't necessarily been steering them in the right direction. And who says it will NEVER be about something besides pleasing a woman? I think the show is already demonstrating the capacity for surprises, as it did last week by having a gorgeous straight guy who already had a pretty decent apartment and sense of style come to them for revamping. Not only did this episode effectively retire the complaint that the show uniformly presents straight men as slobs, it gave the Fab 5 a chance to show that their art isn't simply one of playing clean-up. I was much more floored to see his new apartment than the places that would have looked much better if all they'd done was call a maid service. They're also wisely expanding the market for their respective professions, by driving home the message that just as shrinks aren't just for crazy people anymore, heck, just as escorts aren't just for "lonely queens" anymore, neither are makeovers just for the fashion impaired. Almost everyone I've talked to, gay or straight, about this show has jokingly said they'd like the Five 5 to come do them next. Notwithstanding the economy's current doldrums, the culture is probably primed for this message. In a social context in which people are marrying later and therefore spending more of their lives on the singles "market," it makes sense that people, straight guys included, are paying more attention to their appearance (including that of their surroundings).

 

>The clear underlying message is that the gay men rush in, wrists

>flapping and tongues twittering, do a number on a straight

>man, and then scream and hold hands (as though they were

>13-year-old girls watching the Miss America Pageant) while

>they observe via closed-circuit voyeurism how "their" straight

>man is doing.

 

Personally, I thought they screamed and held hands like plenty of gay men I know and am proud to call friends: smart, vibrant, kind people who -- god forbid! -- happen to scream and hold hands when watching certain shows that inspire that kind of goofy, spontaneous reaction. And remember, these guys have had time to bond with "their" straight man and to get a sense of how important this is to him. Of course they're going to react with enthusiasm when they see him doing well. Should they re-present themselves because they know they're being watched as they watch? (And Will, aren't you in on the joke? Complaining about the voyeurism you witnessed while watching a reality show on cable TV? )

 

This seems to me like another variation on the old theme of gay men disliking it whenever someone too swishy makes it into the spotlight. Interestingly, I recently met a gay man -- a masculine guy working in a traditionally masculine profession -- who's friends with the queeny fashion designer that some people seem so bothered by. He says he's just like that in real life, and that he's a terrific person. Notwithstanding whatever you think about his needing a makeover himself, I think the work he does for his clients -- in this case, the straight guys on this show -- speaks well for his qualifications for his job. How fair would it have been for the show to pass him over, not because of his credentials or because of the quality of his work, but because he was too effeminate for TV -- because Bravo didn't want to risk being accused of reinforcing a stereotype? And how pathetic would it be to back away from letting openly gay men host a makeover show because we'd rather pretend that gay men don't work in those professions in large numbers?

 

>>I would much rather watch them make over a frumpy gay guy

>>into a winner.

 

I agree that that would be a welcome and inclusive twist, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if they start making over "honorary straight guys" of all genders and persuasions as part of the mix. Another fun variation would be every now and then for one of the 5 to submit his own look and his own abode to the rest of the boys for a makeover (chances are the fashion guy's buddies have been dying to do him over for a long time too). Or turning them over to a guest panel of straight designers. Doing so would be a format-appropriate method for giving a greater peek into the lives of the "experts," would show good humor at having the tables turned, and would also drive home the "everybody needs an makeover" message, which people in the makeover business can hardly be faulted for supporting.

 

>Yes, exactly. The other make-over shows set like on like. In

>other words, men and women work together on behalf of men and

>women. The show about making over a female frump, which has a

>man and a woman doing the makeover, has the purpose of making

>the fump seem and feel herself to be more powerful. That

>includes being sexy, yes; but it's not as though the whole

>purpose for a makeover is to find a man or a woman.

 

In one episode they also helped an artist get ready for his opening, and they show the artist schmoozing with a critic and it's clear that the Fab 5 consider that part of the success of their mission. I wouldn't be surprised if the reasons vary from time to time. On the other hand, does anybody know whether most makeovers are self-selected, so to speak, or sought at a partner's urging? It makes intuitive sense that it might be the latter much of the time.

 

>Most people behave towards us the way we cue them to behave,

>although both sides of the exchange are largely unconscious of

>it.

 

Very true. One of the more daring things about the show, in my opinion, is that it gives the "queer eye" credit for being a little more conscious of the power of those cues, most of the time. Yes, it's a generalization, but it's one worth riding with, to ask whether something about the experience of being gay makes many of us more attuned to the power of appearance, of surroundings, of subtleties in interactions. Really, at its heart the "queer eye" is teaching the straight guy how to lead a more considered life -- to CONSIDER where you put that dish, what kind of food you offer your guests, whether your girlfriend that you want to move in with you would like a closet of her own, what small gestures might show that you care, et cetera, et cetera. The show's nervy and, to my mind, not-so-demeaning "stereotype" is that the "Queer Eye" has been sensitized towards a heightened appreciation of an aesthetic -- in every sense of the word -- of living, and that straight men benefit from being exposed to that perspective. I swear I am not making this up to reinforce my point when I say that just over the last few days, I've watched two young straight guys ask my gorgeous coffee shop proprietor, who is gay and flirtatious with everyone, for advice on helping them get women, and for a certain amount of positive reinforcement as to their attractiveness. These little interactions are being played out every day across the country, and that's what "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" is tuned into -- not a stereotype (PLEASE! There are no stereotypes involving gay and straight people working together), but a spreading transformation in how gay and straight men relate to one another. That in itself is a new topic -- there is no "tired story line" around straight men who are comfortable showing affection and flirting with gay men and who value, listen to and act on what they have to say. This show sends a far more effective message about tolerance than any heavy-handed movie-of-the-week, and its good-heartedness marks it as practically a lone holdout in the reality genre, most of which consists of shows whose premise depends on the producers lying to some or all of the participants.

 

Yikes, I really went on a bender this morning! I'd better go before you REALLY get me started... :7 :+

[Will]

All of these are interesting, well-made, and thought-provoking points. I'll have to reconsider my criticisms, partly because I now think they may have been too reductive and over-generalized. I also acknowledge that my negative interpretations may come from the sour grapes in my mouth. Grape 1: I would like to have the Fab 5 -- or any other group of gay men with snap, crackle, and pop -- make me over. Grape 2: I am envious of their apparent (sic) self-confidence and savoir-faire. Grape 3: I belong to a generation that still has to remember not to flinch when there is even the slightest hint that a nelly man may be an object of ridicule. Grape 4: Sourest of all is the likelihood that I am past the time when any of this image-remaking, whatever the sexual orientation and whoever the authority, is likely to have any effect on my personal life. That means, I think, that I need to practice accepting life on its own terms. After all, it doesn't diminish me by one jot or iota if younger men may live to see their gay selves not only tolerated but even celebrated and admired.

 

Thanks, Devon, for holding up the mirror.