A Confederate flag as background! Really?

[bigvalboy]

as they say on the internet: "pictures or it didn't happen".....

 

....love it.....

[kjun]

However, if you are looking for anything beyond a dick to suck or a hole to fuck, I don't think you will find it with him. More than likely an intellectual void.

[seeker630]

Well I disagree of course, partly because racism is painted with a broad brush in this country. Are things better, well of course they are, but to insinuate that when you see an adult, and I use that term loosely, with a confederate flag hanging on his wall, and you suggest to me that he displays it proudly because of stupidity, or some other subtle meaning that it might represent to him, and not because racism, well I just don't buy that. I am guessing that you have never lived in the South, nor experienced the daily acts of prejudice that many minorities feel daily.

 

You can judge me by my posts, what I said is what I meant. I could tell you stories that you just would not believe. Racism is and will be a problem in this country for as long as I am alive. It is a 'black hole' in many respects. There is deep seeded hatred in this country, and I do not see it dissipating anytime soon.

 

Unfortunately this subject seems to come up more often than it should, and guess what, no one ever ever ever agrees on any of it, and you and I will never agree here, because you don't, and in all fairness, can't see and never will see what it is that I see, because you have not lived it. That's just a fact Seek.

 

I have lived in North Carolina for 40 years, and my life prior to that prior to that, in south-central Virginia.

 

I do not dispute that there is racism in the South - but I do think some posters here have made it seem as though virtually ALL of the South is racist. And that, I take issue with.

 

I'm sure that my sensitivity to racism is less than that of someone who IS a racial minority - and I think we've had discussions about this before.

 

Neither of us has any idea what the flag in the escort's pix signifies to him - you only know what it signifies to YOU. (It DOES remind me of the discussion about someone's picture giving the finger.)

 

I'll agree that the picture shows poor judgment, at the very least. But I'm not willing to assume it makes him Southern racist - I think that's pre-judging.

[Frequentflier]

But I'm not willing to assume it makes him Southern racist - I think that's pre-judging.

 

Its certainly possible he's not from the South.

[Frequentflier]

Cmon BIGvalBOY, some of us want pictures and lots of details of your delivery boy playtime.

[sfguy]

Neither of us has any idea what the flag in the escort's pix signifies to him - you only know what it signifies to YOU. (It DOES remind me of the discussion about someone's picture giving the finger.)

That's not a very good argument. That's the equivalent of those apologies that basically go, "I'm sorry if you were offended by the offensive thing I did."

 

It would be different if it were unreasonable to be offended by the Confederate flag. But I imagine most people would agree that, whether they personally find it offensive or not, that it is reasonable to take offense to it. You don't need to be African-American or any other racial minority to be offended. The Confederate flag, after all, is a symbol of the states that seceded from our country, a rejection of our country. It's a symbol of a way of life that included slavery, lynchings, disenfranchisement, and segregation, all of which make a mockery of American values.

 

Sure, some Southerners see the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern genteelity, chivalry, and that slow-paced life that accompanies small rural communities, but they also know what it represents to pretty much everyone outside the South and many other people in the South and know that they find it offensive. And that's what makes it particularly offensive. The "I know this offends you but I'm doing it anyway" attitude. It's the same as the whole Jesse Helms whistling Dixie episode.

 

And it's not as though there aren't other symbols of the South. So celebration of the Confederate flag, with full knowledge that people reasonably will be offended by it, makes people question the intent behind it. And even when there isn't racist intent (which, in many instances, there absolutely is), it is still offensive.

 

Besides lots of Confederate flag-waving Southerners take offense when they see Latinos waving the Mexican flag or Guatemalan flag or wherever. They see it as a political statement and take it as some sort of attack on America, rather than viewing it as celebrating their cultural heritage in the same way that the Confederate flag is supposedly representing the cultural heritage of the South. So I really don't buy that they see flag displays as a mere representation of cultural heritage. To them, I think it is a political statement, one which expresses a lot of unsavory attitudes toward the American ideal of equality.

[bigvalboy]

That's not a very good argument. That's the equivalent of those apologies that basically go, "I'm sorry if you were offended by the offensive thing I did."

 

It would be different if it were unreasonable to be offended by the Confederate flag. But I imagine most people would agree that, whether they personally find it offensive or not, that it is reasonable to take offense to it. You don't need to be African-American or any other racial minority to be offended. The Confederate flag, after all, is a symbol of the states that seceded from our country, a rejection of our country. It's a symbol of a way of life that included slavery, lynchings, disenfranchisement, and segregation, all of which make a mockery of American values.

 

Sure, some Southerners see the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern genteelity, chivalry, and that slow-paced life that accompanies small rural communities, but they also know what it represents to pretty much everyone outside the South and many other people in the South and know that they find it offensive. And that's what makes it particularly offensive. The "I know this offends you but I'm doing it anyway" attitude. It's the same as the whole Jesse Helms whistling Dixie episode.

 

And it's not as though there aren't other symbols of the South. So celebration of the Confederate flag, with full knowledge that people reasonably will be offended by it, makes people question the intent behind it. And even when there isn't racist intent (which, in many instances, there absolutely is), it is still offensive.

 

Besides lots of Confederate flag-waving Southerners take offense when they see Latinos waving the Mexican flag or Guatemalan flag or wherever. They see it as a political statement and take it as some sort of attack on America, rather than viewing it as celebrating their cultural heritage in the same way that the Confederate flag is supposedly representing the cultural heritage of the South. So I really don't buy that they see flag displays as a mere representation of cultural heritage. To them, I think it is a political statement, one which expresses a lot of unsavory attitudes toward the American ideal of equality.

 

Brilliant synopsis of the issue at hand...Well I must thank you sfguy for stating so eloquently what I was unable to. Your analysis of the symbolic meaning of the Confederate flag is 100% accurate. Those that choose to use the flag as a symbol of Southern pride, know full well what it symbolizes to so many. I just find it so difficult to believe that in this day and age there are those out there that just don't want to see the deep issues that are so pervasive throughout the South, and making excuses for this blatant display of racism only helps perpetuate that deep divide. Perhaps that is looking at this as if the glass were half empty, but to pretend or suggest that in the last 60+ years that many of the issues are resolved is dangerously naïve.

[bigvalboy]

Cmon BIGvalBOY, some of us want pictures and lots of details of your delivery boy playtime.

 

lol lol...I didn't exactly open the door and start shooting pictures. Since I just figured out that he delivers to my complex, it was his first trip. I did have a tight little T shirt on, and as any respectable gay man would, the living room was properly lit and dimmed. I thanked him, tipped him ten bucks and then gave him a little wink. Baby steps.....

[Will Do]

 

This is the way a lot of guys who call themselves redneck look like, they eat and drive, we pay their ER, Medicare, Social Security, etc. They are the real takers and their numbers are massive in the poorest areas of the poorest states from Appalachia and the South.

 

http://cwmemory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/110303medford_confederate_flag405ap.jpg

 

Those you describe are not rednecks. They are white trash.

[hornytwells]

I have a great system with delivery boys that works for me quite a lot. I have straight porn on the computer, which they can see reflected clearly in my glass photo frames as they stand in the doorway to wait till i find cash. If they are up for some fun they usually comment on saying the video looks hot, and I invite them in. I did this with success three times this year-and the funny thing is I had two straight brothers separately, neither of whom want the other one to know!! I had a similar system in the Uk where I would buzz them in and have straight porn playing,-the ones who stayed in the room watching it were always up for fun, and the ones who waited outside I knew not to go there....

[anotherjohnindupont]

I have a great system with delivery boys that works for me quite a lot. I have straight porn on the computer, which they can see reflected clearly in my glass photo frames as they stand in the doorway to wait till i find cash. If they are up for some fun they usually comment on saying the video looks hot, and I invite them in. I did this with success three times this year-and the funny thing is I had two straight brothers separately, neither of whom want the other one to know!! I had a similar system in the Uk where I would buzz them in and have straight porn playing,-the ones who stayed in the room watching it were always up for fun, and the ones who waited outside I knew not to go there....

 

Huh?

 

Could you please elaborate? Do you call for pizza or you wave the neighbors' son, play straight porno and suck him off?

 

Those boys are cheap? Specially now that it takes 2 dinners to have sex with any girl.

[seeker630]

That's not a very good argument. That's the equivalent of those apologies that basically go, "I'm sorry if you were offended by the offensive thing I did." .

 

I don't think the arguments here are about whether he did something offensive to many - clearly he did - but whether or not the presence of the flag automatically makes him a racist. And I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed in their opinions.

 

It would be different if it were unreasonable to be offended by the Confederate flag. But I imagine most people would agree that, whether they personally find it offensive or not, that it is reasonable to take offense to it. You don't need to be African-American or any other racial minority to be offended. The Confederate flag, after all, is a symbol of the states that seceded from our country, a rejection of our country. It's a symbol of a way of life that included slavery, lynchings, disenfranchisement, and segregation, all of which make a mockery of American values. .

 

That would make for an interesting discussion. This country is founded on rejection of the overlordship of Great Britain; a previous post contained a graphic claiming that the Southern rebellion was treason & sedition. Wasn't that true of the American Revolution? The colonies joined the United States voluntarily - but apparently it was a one-way deal?

 

 

 

Sure, some Southerners see the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern genteelity, chivalry, and that slow-paced life that accompanies small rural communities, but they also know what it represents to pretty much everyone outside the South and many other people in the South and know that they find it offensive. And that's what makes it particularly offensive. The "I know this offends you but I'm doing it anyway" attitude. It's the same as the whole Jesse Helms whistling Dixie episode.

 

And it's not as though there aren't other symbols of the South. So celebration of the Confederate flag, with full knowledge that people reasonably will be offended by it, makes people question the intent behind it. And even when there isn't racist intent (which, in many instances, there absolutely is), it is still offensive.

 

Besides lots of Confederate flag-waving Southerners take offense when they see Latinos waving the Mexican flag or Guatemalan flag or wherever. They see it as a political statement and take it as some sort of attack on America, rather than viewing it as celebrating their cultural heritage in the same way that the Confederate flag is supposedly representing the cultural heritage of the South. So I really don't buy that they see flag displays as a mere representation of cultural heritage. To them, I think it is a political statement, one which expresses a lot of unsavory attitudes toward the American ideal of equality.

 

Obviously many or most here take it as a political statement. That doesn't mean that it always IS. My point is, people make a lot of assumptions and seem to judge by stereotypes.

 

I really don't mean to be an apologist for the South (tho I'm not sure it needs one any more than the rest of the country), but it does seem to me there's a tendency to stereotype Southerners.

 

And I don't think that racism is confined to Southerners.

[seeker630]

Brilliant synopsis of the issue at hand...Well I must thank you sfguy for stating so eloquently what I was unable to. Your analysis of the symbolic meaning of the Confederate flag is 100% accurate. Those that choose to use the flag as a symbol of Southern pride, know full well what it symbolizes to so many. I just find it so difficult to believe that in this day and age there are those out there that just don't want to see the deep issues that are so pervasive throughout the South, and making excuses for this blatant display of racism only helps perpetuate that deep divide. Perhaps that is looking at this as if the glass were half empty, but to pretend or suggest that in the last 60+ years that many of the issues are resolved is dangerously naïve.

 

BVB, just to be clear - I respect your opinion, although I don't totally agree with it. We are both shaped by our experiences, and as they differ, so will our opinions on some issues.

 

I do believe that the country as a whole still has far to go before discrimination and bigotry regarding race, gender, sexual orientation and economic class are extinct.

[bigvalboy]

BVB, just to be clear - I respect your opinion, although I don't totally agree with it. We are both shaped by our experiences, and as they differ, so will our opinions on some issues.

 

And in the end, that's what makes this such a great country, that two people can have opposing view points and still have a civil conversation....provided of course that you admit that I am right...lol ...(it's a joke people)

 

I enjoyed the thread and always love your input and take on things....

[Will Do]

And with that I am ordering pizza, literally. Dominos I think, the delivery guy is kinda cute, so when he comes, I always make sure I have a cute little top on.

 

Okay, found it. Wondering where and why and how this thread had slipped from slamming Sons of the Confederacy to hoping to blow the cute Domino's delivery boy.

 

Me thinks some of the posts on this Forum could use a Adderall cocktail.

 

Whoa, hold on. Didn't say posters.

[seeker630]

Okay, found it. Wondering where and why and how this thread had slipped from slamming Sons of the Confederacy to hoping to blow the cute Domino's delivery boy.

 

Me thinks some of the posts on this Forum could use a Adderall cocktail.

 

Whoa, hold on. Didn't say posters.

 

The Pizza Boy: He Delivers - one of my favorite classics!

[Frequentflier]

I'm just going to say it: There's nothing wrong with Bigvalboy ordering pizza two nights in a row, or three nights, etc. I'm sort of hungering for a big outcome to his strategy and as well hoping I'll learn how to apply similar tactics locally Did I just say big outcome?

[MalcomXpark]

Okay, found it. Wondering where and why and how this thread had slipped from slamming Sons of the Confederacy to hoping to blow the cute Domino's delivery boy....

The answer is posting 60.

 

What his hornytwells doing on an escorts' forum when he gets sex for the price of a pizza? and a tip I hope because the guy will arrive late to his next "delivery".

 

I think hornytwells has been watching too much porno and eating too much pizza, I hope others won't follow his advice, pizza has a bad effect on an aging population.

 

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/assets/images/clinical_review/guy-eating-pizza.jpg

[bigvalboy]

I'm just going to say it: There's nothing wrong with Bigvalboy ordering pizza two nights in a row, or three nights,

 

Pizza two or three nights in a row??? Uuuuhhhh may I refer you to the post by MalcomXpark, and please pay close attention to the link that he provided. I think I just saw the future....

[bigvalboy]

pizza has a bad effect on an aging population.

 

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/assets/images/clinical_review/guy-eating-pizza.jpg

 

Damn funny stuff...

[marylander1940]

The answer is posting 60.

 

What his hornytwells doing on an escorts' forum when he gets sex for the price of a pizza? and a tip I hope because the guy will arrive late to his next "delivery".

 

I think hornytwells has been watching too much porno and eating too much pizza, I hope others won't follow his advice, pizza has a bad effect on an aging population.

 

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/assets/images/clinical_review/guy-eating-pizza.jpg

 

When I was young I would have never jerked off next to a guy who looks like that... but if he was young and hot I wouldn't have bothered by a confederate flag in his house.

[Frequentflier]

Pizza two or three nights in a row??? Uuuuhhhh may I refer you to the post by MalcomXpark, and please pay close attention to the link that he provided. I think I just saw the future....

 

I doubt there is a risk you (Bigvalboy) will end up looking like the guy in the photo. You come across as refined and able to control your intake of food and know that you have to look reasonably good for the pizza fantasy to become reality And there's nothing that says you have to eat the pizza, just the delivery guy So, you can have your slim/trim/tight figure and your hobby too! I find sex is both a good workout and provides great discipline to hit the gym and watch the food intake (being naked with someone or standing in front of a mirror is cold feedback). I have found though that watching the gin & tonic intake means just that - I'm watching the glass getting filled and then the fluid disappearing!

[sfguy]

I don't think the arguments here are about whether he did something offensive to many - clearly he did - but whether or not the presence of the flag automatically makes him a racist. And I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed in their opinions.

That's true. And you're right that we can't know whether he's a racist. But I guess ultimately my point is that I don't think it's wrong to make that assumption about someone who does something that they know will be, and reasonably can be, construed as racist.

 

I totally agree with you about people making horrible assumptions about Southerners based on stereotypes. I'm originally from Texas, and especially living in San Francisco now, I've heard it all. (Though I'd say Texas is really Texan more than Southern, but that could just be my Texas pride that makes the distinction between the two). But I don't think stereotyping plays a role in the Confederate flag case. I think the assumption here is based on an action (displaying the Confederate flag) rather than merely being Southern.

 

That would make for an interesting discussion. This country is founded on rejection of the overlordship of Great Britain; a previous post contained a graphic claiming that the Southern rebellion was treason & sedition. Wasn't that true of the American Revolution? The colonies joined the United States voluntarily - but apparently it was a one-way deal?

History is written by the victors, after all. Whether the secession was treason depends on one's opinions on the reasons for secession and on federalism. Federalism is such a strange system, particularly in the US, because so many of us have such strong ties and affinity to our states (again that might just be the Texan in me since Texans have an unusually strong attachment to Texas). So we end up having a system where we have allegiances both to our state and our country, and sometimes those interests are in tension. It definitely would be an interesting discussion.

[+ FreshFluff]

He could be racist. Or, it could simply be marketing: He could be using the confederate flag to signal that he's a confederate flag-wavin' REAL MAN. As a result, married men should not be afraid of him. It's sad, but I'd guess that there are plenty of these types on grindr. (BTW, I like the South and Southerners, just not racist good ol' boys.)

 

There may be some of both.

[+ deej]

That would make for an interesting discussion. This country is founded on rejection of the overlordship of Great Britain; a previous post contained a graphic claiming that the Southern rebellion was treason & sedition. Wasn't that true of the American Revolution? The colonies joined the United States voluntarily - but apparently it was a one-way deal?

 

It is a one way deal (except for Texas). Treason against the union is the only crime for which the constitution specifies a punishment. The framers were smart enough to realize the only way to make a go of it was "we're all in this together".

 

History is written by the victors, after all. Whether the secession was treason depends on one's opinions on the reasons for secession and on federalism. Federalism is such a strange system, particularly in the US, because so many of us have such strong ties and affinity to our states (again that might just be the Texan in me since Texans have an unusually strong attachment to Texas). So we end up having a system where we have allegiances both to our state and our country, and sometimes those interests are in tension. It definitely would be an interesting discussion.

 

That's definitely a Texas thing, I think. I've lived all over the US and never encountered secession movements, or even suggestions that it might even be considered.

 

There's a secession movement in Colorado right now, but they want to form a new state called North Colorado because of them dang lib'ruls running the state. They actually have the oil resources in the region to finance it, but seceding from the state doesn't automatically guarantee they'll become the 51st state of the union. It would really suck to win independence from the overlords in Denver and then have Washington say "meh".