Keep this software or replace it and lose all of the messages?

[Boston Guy]

Guys,

 

HB has posted twice in the last six hours that he's going to replace this software. If he does this, all messages posted here -- including the archives -- will be lost.

 

Do you favor keeping this software or replacing it with other software and losing the current message history?

 

BG

[Will]

Frankly, I think you're right that there's no such thing as the perfect software. If there were, we'd all know about it. As for the total record of M4M, it would be a great shame to lose it. As you rightly pointed out in another post, it represents thousands, even tens of thousands, of hours of work and contains some brilliant insights. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to download the entire archive onto a ZIP disk just for safety's sake. If I could ever get the time -- I'll have to wait until I retire -- I'd like to try to make a book out of all the wisdom in these pages. But to do that, I'd have to have the pages!

[+ Lucky]

BG- I am not the most computer literate guy in the world, so could you please explain this question? Why would we lose all the messages by changing the software, and why would Hoo want to do that? What software?

Sorry, but I know butts better than boards!

[HooBoy]

Hey folks,

 

I am not going to knee jerk this thing into oblivion.

 

The MESSAGE CENTER is free to everyone except me (and Daddy). So when I see him sweating at the sewing machine for hours and then I hear that customers are unhappy with the T-Shirts, I may think about buying another sweat shop.

 

But I won't willy-nilly pull the plug and let 5 years of your words go down the drain...again.

 

Bottom line: I am shopping for new MESSAGE CENTER software.

 

I DO appreciate your input.

[Boston Guy]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

HB:

 

Your emphasis on MESSAGE CENTER software implies that you view the escort reviews as being stable but the Message Center as being replaceable.

 

My entire concern is precisely for the content of the MESSAGE CENTER. Replacing this message center will necessarily mean throwing away everything that has been written here since the beginning.

 

I do not believe that you are likely to find other software that can import the contents of the Message Center database successfully. Consequently, if you replace the Message Center software, you either

 

(1) Lose everything written here. To my way of thinking, that's a far, far bigger loss than losing the escort reviews. Or,

 

(2) Have to support two sites -- a current site running new software and an old site running an archive of the old data. Who wants that??

 

This software is about as good as it gets for bulletin board software. There are other systems out there that offer different feature sets at different price points, but the DCF software provides a very good combination of full functionality, end-user ease of use, ease of administration, and performance.

 

I've spent a lot of time writing messages here and so have countless other guys. Having that history thrown into the wastebin because a few people have complained seems a damn shame. Not to mention the effort everyone would need to learn and get used to new software, which would have its own foibles, bugs and complaints.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

Lucky -

 

Bulletin board software, such as the DCF software used here, stores messages in one way or another. DCF provides two different products that use two different methods for storing the messages and other companies produce other products that use still other methods.

 

Most of these products use proprietary message formats. That means that you can't take one program and import all of the message from a different product into it. There are exceptions to this rule but I am not aware of any product that can import the data from a DCForum bulletin board and successfully display it in another board.

 

So going to another software package for the Message Center could result in losing everything that's in the current one.

 

Why would HB want to do this? To my way of thinking, he shouldn't want to. But after the upgrade, a couple of people complained about the new software and evidently HB also got caught by the old version's private message flag bug (the message indicator did not show up when new messages arrived; that is now evidently fixed).

 

So for the moment he's aggravated with this software.

 

But, as a software professional, I advise

 

(1) Understanding that any upgrade necessarily involves changes and usually bugs and misunderstandings and

 

(2) Understanding that end-users always complain when software changes, especially non-technical users who generally expect every piece of software to work flawless and easily from the start. Professionals who understand how difficult it can be to reach that ideal often complain, too, but about different kinds of things. It's the nature of the thing for people to complain after an upgrade but it will settle down very quickly and people will be happy.

 

(3) Understanding that this package really is a good one and provides good functionality that everyone at M4M is highly used to. Changing the software underlyng the Message Center would force everyone to learn something new and THEN the complaints would really be heard.

 

BG

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

>(3) Understanding that this package really is a good one and

>provides good functionality that everyone at M4M is highly

>used to. Changing the software underlyng the Message Center

>would force everyone to learn something new and THEN the

>complaints would really be heard.

 

>BG

 

It always causes me to shake my head when I hear of concerns that users may complain. Let us not forget that this is a FREE service and we should be grateful for what we get. You only have the right to complain about the service if or when HooBoy starts charging a monthly membership fee.

 

It is OK to make suggestions and to ask if it is possible to change some things - but to complain? I don't think so!

 

fukamarine

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

>Replacing this message center will necessarily mean

>throwing away everything that has been written here since the

>beginning.

 

That would be a terrible loss and I hope that can be avoided.

 

>

>I do not believe that you are likely to find other software

>that can import the contents of the Message Center database

>successfully.

 

Not necessarilly... you might be right, but on the other hand I wouldnt be surprised if the DCF folks already have developed a special purpose tool for a particular customer or two. If so, I doubt that tool is continually supported and apparently not openly advertised but might be made available if they felt it was in their interest. Even if not, they might be open (for a nominal fee -- it never hurts to ask) to providing a simple tool to port data from their proprietary format to a standard such as RTF or even text. (Porting to another sophisticated proprietary format would be very expensive and accomplish little in the long run.) This already exists in the printable version format conversion. It just needs to be implemented at the data base level rather than the thread level.

 

>

>This software is about as good as it gets for bulletin board

>software. There are other systems out there that offer

>different feature sets at different price points, but the DCF

>software provides a very good combination of full

>functionality, end-user ease of use, ease of administration,

>and performance.

>

 

I don't know the specifics about all of that... I'm pretty happy with the software myself. However, it is my impression is that it is a pain in Daddy's ass. Maintenance and ease of upgrade is every bit as important an issue as performance. If the system cannot be maintained adequately with reasonable effort then the performance will suffer ultimately. Maybe Daddy has been carrying too much of the load on his back to maintain this system. If so, then we will have to make a change.

 

>I've spent a lot of time writing messages here and so have

>countless other guys. Having that history thrown into the

>wastebin because a few people have complained seems a damn

>shame.

 

I agree if that is the reason and Daddy is not one of the people. Clearly his vote has to trump all others or HB has to change tech support services. That would not be my choice even if HB could find an affordable alternative. There is more to tech support than cost -- much more. Daddy has been a gem for us, grounded in his interest in and dedication to this site. It 's been much more that 'just business' and that kind of dedication is truly rare and has demonstrated its value here time and again.

 

Suppose the trade came down to having an accessible archive but an inacessible MC some of the time with sluggish recovery performance. A new service is an unknown quantity as HB found out on his first outing.

 

In summary I want my cake and I want to eat it too. I hope I can have both, but not at the expense of killing the chef or taking my business to an unknown bakery.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

BG,

 

where did you see these? I cannot find them.

 

TY

[Boston Guy]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

TY:

 

Here are links to the posts:

 

http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=13&topic_id=1222&mesg_id=1222&page=#1242

 

http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=51831&mesg_id=51831&page=#51839

 

BG

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

BG,

 

Thanks. If I had seen the first one a little earlier then it would have saved me an unnecessarily long winded post. Rather than an unprompted HooBoy annoucement, it seems a response to complaining by the few. Like you, I like the new software and think it is a nice improvement both in form and function. I have visted several other boards and I like the DCF software the best and use it as implemented on this site as my standard for comparison.

 

If anyone wants my opinion, let's keep the software and the archives. If it ain't broke don't fix it just upgrade it. :+

 

 

[HooBoy]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

Boston Guy wrote:

 

>>>>HB:

 

Your emphasis on MESSAGE CENTER software implies that you view the escort reviews as being stable but the Message Center as being replaceable.

 

My entire concern is precisely for the content of the MESSAGE CENTER. Replacing this message center will necessarily mean throwing away everything that has been written here since the beginning.<<<

 

Dear BG,

 

I think you possibly misunderstand my capitalizing MESSAGE CENTER. I do so because I think it is very important, not that I think it is replaceable. I apologize that it was unclear.

 

If I find some other software out there that is easier to navigate, more user friendly and cost effective, there is nothing that says this entire site will go away.

 

It can always be linked.

 

At last count, I have purchased 3 servers. One is dedicated only to this MESSAGE CENTER, thus the strange URL. Most everyone around here charges about the same for their hourly rates, $200 - $500 an hour. Mine are $300 an hour, but I do not get a lot of work, so I run out of money at the end of each month and I tend to get cranky.

 

Daddy's rates may be higher than mine and the extra duty he puts in around here for free is amazing. Bottom line is, this entire place is very expensive to maintain and it is still FREE to you.

 

If you revisit my post you will see that I asked for input.

 

I appreciate yours very much. :*

[BuckyXTC]

I think the latest version of the software is just fine. And yes, anytime there's an upgrade, someone will complain because they may have to do something in a way that's different from what they were accustomed to. And with many software upgrades, you sometimes have to sacrifice a feature to make way for another. We're all creatures of habit, and the older we get, the more resistant we become to change.

When Apple introduced OS X, it took a bit of getting used to, since some of the changes were dramatically different from prior versions. In the end, OS X provides so much more power and stability that it was more than worth the effort to learn a few new ways of using it. Mac users have screamed about the need for protected memory and preemptive multitasking for years. Now that we have it, I can hardly imagine going back. Yes, some old beloved applications may not work under OS X, but new programs that accomplish the same things are coming out every day.

 

I also agree that it would be a shame to lose the old posts. Here's hoping the complaining will drop off once folks get accustomed to the minor adjustments to something new and upgraded.

[Guest Gringo]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

We're all creatures of habit, and the older we get, the more resistant we become to change.

 

Could it also be possible that the older we get, the more defensive we become? And I suppose that could be offensive to some. Or does the security of past rememberances offer more comfort than the uncertainly of future opportunities? I'm going to let it slide and not divert the direction of this thread. I am not resistant to change and have every confidence in HB & Daddy. :+

[Guest ncm2169]

RE: Keep this software or replace it and lose all of th...

 

FUK, yes this site is free and we all should be grateful to HB for that. :+

 

My point (as one "complainer") is, in order for the site to stay free, it has to be viewer/user friendly. If it ceases to be that, the number of daily hits will decrease, the site revenue will decrease, HB's already pitiful income ( ;-) ) will decrease even further, and...guess what? NO free site anymore. x(

 

So, I'm not just complaining, I'm pointing out some flaws, and trying to be helpful.

[eastbayguy]

Just my .02

 

Hoo, Daddy, et al, do a thankless job, and I am appreciative of the hours they put in. The result is a remarkable community of interesting people. One of the finest online communities it has ever been my pleasure to be a part of.

 

That said, it would be a real shame if progress and support issues were to deprive the community of it's history. My family carefully recorded a video and oral history of parents, grandparents and greatgrandparents. One of my current projects is migrating a bunch of 8 and 16 mm films, video tapes, audio tapes, pictures and a host of other stuff on to DVD. DVD looks to be a stable platform for the next 15-20 years. My guess is that 15 years from now, 8 and 16 mm films and VHS tapes will require a trip to an antique store for playback. I'm sure a software only history is much more complex to manage. Balancing the need for stability and cost control with not loosing the history is a complex equation.

 

I would offer the following as a suggestion: Figure out what the cost is to migrate the existing message center to a new, more stable platform. Let the community vote with their wallets, via Paypal or whatever forum is appropriate. Sort of like public television.

 

As to learning a new system, we'll all deal. There may be bitching and moaning, but we'll deal.

 

--EBG