This I Remember

[+ Charlie]

KMEM commented to me that I often sound much older than I am. I tried to explain that, although many posters are near my age or older, I have been out, both socially and sexually, longer than most of them, so I often feel very old when reading posts. I recently passed the 50th anniversary of my coming out, and these are some of the things I remember about gay life a half century ago:

 

*Any sexual activity between any two men was a crime in every state. "Sodomy" could be so broadly interpreted that it might include open-mouth kissing. Even proposing to have sex could be punished. I knew a couple who had been imprisoned for supposedly propositioning two college boys, even though the only evidence was the accusation by the boys.

 

*Homosexuality was officially classified by the medical profession as a mental disease in need of treatment. A family could legally commit a homosexual member to a psychiatric institution.

 

*No politician would dare to admit that he even knew a homosexual, and if a friend or colleague was exposed, the most one could do was express sympathy for his family. A politician who was outed might as well commit suicide.

 

*The only gay businesses were bars and baths, usually run by straight mobsters. Although the police were normally paid off, the places were still regularly raided (especially near election time), and the customers could be arrested for "disorderly conduct" simply for patronizing the place.

 

*The only gay publications were newsletters or magazines put out by a few small "homophile" organizations on the East and West coasts, distributed to members and a few distant subscribers who received them in the mail, in plain brown wrappers. There were no LGBT sections in bookstores, the few books about homosexuality were usually in restricted sections of libraries, and the rare gay characters in fiction were evil or pathetic creatures who came to a bad end. Ditto for the rare gay character in a film, and there were no gay characters at all on TV.

 

*The only pornography readily available, in urban centers, was so-called physique magazines, with black-and-white photos of semi-clothed young men in staged poses--lots of athletes, cowboys, and sailors--with the occasional (soft) dick exposed. If one knew the right people, one might get to see some private hardcore stuff, but that was still only black-and-white photos.

 

*The only way to hire someone for sex--unless one had a lot of money and the right contacts--was to frequent certain bars, streets or parks, try to negotiate a price and a place to commit the act, and pray that one didn't end up robbed, beaten or killed. Or arrested by an undercover cop.

 

The only item listed above that is still true is the last one, and we need to keep working on that. But otherwise, it is a different world, and in most ways a better one for gay men. Yet I still remember those early years as an exciting and generally very satisfying period of my life, even with all its restrictions and deprivations.

[Diverdan]

Thanks, Charlie... it is hard for many young (younger) men today to realize what guys like you had to go through as they grew up. I guess I am not as old as you are, but I remember some of these things happening when I was young too, although not to the degree that you described. Unfortunately, even today, there are still places where discrimination is rampant in the USA, and even worse in some countries elsewhere in the world. I wish I would live to see the day that such discrimination didn't exist, but not sure I want to live that long, as it is still going to take a couple of generations for that to occur.

[Boston Guy]

Wow, Charlie, you're old! :D

 

I can remember the first anniversary of my coming out and how I marveled at the fact that I'd been out for a WHOLE YEAR. Now, I'm close to 30 years out and I don't know where the time has gone.

 

Thanks for a great post and a walk down memory lane. While I wasn't out in the period of time that you describe, I was alive and I well remember how "fags" and "queers" and "fairies" and "homos" were viewed and treated and considered. The brother of one my uncles (by marriage) was gay and in a relationship with another guy for several decades. I knew him well but I didn't know that he was gay or in a relationship until after I myself had come out. My mother mentioned it to me one time and I was dumbfounded. I asked why I'd never known that and she said "well, people just naturally kept it quiet."

 

BG

[gp0560]

If you were 12 in 1950, 22 in 1960 . . .

 

This is a list I posted here several years ago. Apologies for the repeat, but it seems to fit the current topic really well.

 

 

 

The advantages of life in the closet:

 

1. You get to study straight boys and men to learn how to walk, talk, and behave. You’re afraid to buck convention.

 

2. You get to study gay boys and men to learn how not to walk, talk, and behave. You’re afraid to buck convention.

 

3. You get to avoid the slightest hint of a lisp or (in the Midwest) a drawl.

 

4. You get to pitch your voice in a habitual monotone, which is not easy after you get proficient in French.

 

5. You get to balance your weight evenly on both feet, so that one hip doesn’t thrust out to the side, which is bad enough in itself, but also encourages the opposite leg to go into a queer position.

 

6. You get to watch the workmen outside your house as a little boy, and then say to yourself years later, “So that’s why I liked to see them with their shirts off.”

 

7. You get to sneak home muscle magazines under your jacket when you’re a teen.

 

8. You get to arrange a code word with your boyhood friend for when you want to go over to his house “to watch TV.”

 

9. You get to avoid going to the beach so that you don’t embarrass yourself in public.

 

10. You get to force disinterested responses when your college roommate tells you one Hollywood star or another is gay.

 

11. You get to admire only his honesty when your handsome, built college roommate tells you he himself is gay.

 

12. You get to limit yourself to quick, unrepeated glances at cute and/or muscular guys.

 

13. You get to sneak glances at the cute/muscular guys in your classroom while they’re taking tests.

 

14. You get to look for cute and/or muscular guys while looking over your wife’s shoulder.

 

15. You get to carry your wife’s purse, when she needs you to, by anything but the strap.

 

16. You get to drive while keeping a lookout for what might be watchable down the road, so that you can arrange to glance that way at the right time. It’s better to be a passenger.

 

17. You get to program the VCR, with its freeze-frame capability, to get the Marc Singer movies. Also the Hercules-type films, which teach you not to lock your knees when wearing shorts.

 

18. You get to check out Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc., especially on hot Saturday mornings, when the muscle shirts, tank tops, and shorts are everywhere.

 

19. You get to avoid, just in time, the mistake of asking the meaning of “California, the land of fruits and nuts.”

 

20. You get to choose, at the supermarket, between the short checkout lane with the pretty girl and the long checkout lane with the stunning stud.

 

21. You get to watch sports on TV for glimpses of muscle, like college football in the early fall when it’s still hot enough to wear short socks and short-sleeve jerseys.

 

22. You get to learn how to hold your head still and let your eyes wander anywhere they want.

 

23. You get to admire your wife’s firm belief that sexual orientation is innate and not chosen, because you know it is certainly true. She also enjoys “Will & Grace.”

 

24. You get to be grateful when your marital erection doesn’t start to fail you until well into middle age.

 

25. You get to feel guilty relief when your wife’s migraines and spells of depression mean less desire and less opportunity for sex.

 

26. You get to wonder what life would have been like if people had been as accepting then as they are today, which isn’t enough.

 

27. You get to answer yourself, “Yeah, but you’d probably be dead from AIDS by now; you were a horny bastard.”

 

28. You get to panic for an answer when a friend tells you he’s gay, you say, “So?” and he asks, “How come you’re so accepting?”

 

29. You get to remain ignorant of what it’s like to have a close male friend, because once you know his mind, you can’t help lusting for him. Not to mention that you can’t really share your inner self with him.

 

30. You get to observe the increasing signs of age and to realize that no one new is likely to love you any more.

 

31. You get to wonder if you’ll ever get a chance for physical contact with a man.

 

32. You get to wait fifty years, more or less, to get an Internet connection, which lets you look as long as you like at any interesting picture you find.

 

33. You get to stumble across a board where some of the escorts reveal bright minds and wonderfully complex personalities, as well as drool-over pictures.

 

34. You get to steal money from the joint checking account for time with an escort.

 

35. You get to exult when you finally get approval for a business trip out of town.

 

36. Finally, you get to spend your first time with a great escort.

 

37. And then, I get to go home and imagine what might have been, for the rest of my fucked-up life.

[+ sf westcoaster]

Charlie, Alhough I didn't come out until much later in life (after marriage and a family) I vividly remember the period you have described. I often wonder if I would have come out in my early years had the atmosphere been different. Then again I think that had I come out would I still be alive, given that I would have been at a peak during the early days of AIDS.

[KMEM]

Charlie-

 

I want to make two things perfectly clear. One, the comment was by PM and two, it was a comment, not an accusation.

 

Discrimination is a part of human nature. If we like cashews but not pecans, that is discrimination. However, some times being discriminate seems more unfair than others and, of course, that is the subject under discussion, unfair discrimination. I am also afraid that being unfair is also a human frailty. We can lobby, protest and do whatever we think best to remedy unfairness but any such activity should start with oneself. Only you can be fair to others. If you ever are not, how can you accuse others of the same?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[+ Charlie]

KMEM, I thought that the "to me" indicated it was not part of a post, and I didn't characterize it as an accusation. I enjoyed your PM, which was very complimentary, but it got me thinking about my persona here, and I wanted to explain some things, in case someone actually did think I was the Ancient Mariner.

[KMEM]

You did a LOT of explaining and I never thought you to be an albatross. I, for one, enjoy your posts and I always remember that I am older than dirt.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Samai139]

Charlie--

Thanks for starting this thread and to all the others who have reflected on what "the good/bad old days" were like. One addition from another "old as dirt" poster: In those days, late '50's and early '60's, discrimination against homosexuality was part of the hiring and firing in many fields. When I applied to join the Peace Corps in 1961 I had to sign an affidavit swearing that I was not or had never been a communist or a homosexual. I swore that I was not and looking back, probably believed both. I wonder what the statute of limitations on that illegality might be? Were they serious? Yes. Two men and a young woman were "selected out" of training in my group and years later another Volunteer told me that he had been told, after the fact, by a Peace Corps administrator that the reason was they had been discovered in compromising situations during training. The rest of us had gossiped about reasons but never knew until much later. That kind of pressure to "conform" certainly influenced not only outward behaviour but also internal acceptance of what we were.

[happyguy2]

A sincere and profoundly felt thank you to all of you. I really needed to read this, to feel this, and to realize that I, while aware, had not truly paid attention to my heritage. It is ..... amazing .... and we are all here to tell and hear the tale.... amazing.

thanks and peace!

hg

[orbital sander]

This is a list I posted here several years ago. Apologies for the repeat, but it seems to fit the current topic really well.

 

 

 

The advantages of life in the closet:

 

1. You get to study straight boys and men to learn how to walk, talk, and behave. You’re afraid to buck convention.

 

2. You get to study gay boys and men to learn how not to walk, talk, and behave. You’re afraid to buck convention.

 

3. You get to avoid the slightest hint of a lisp or (in the Midwest) a drawl.

 

4. You get to pitch your voice in a habitual monotone, which is not easy after you get proficient in French.

 

5. You get to balance your weight evenly on both feet, so that one hip doesn’t thrust out to the side, which is bad enough in itself, but also encourages the opposite leg to go into a queer position.

 

6. You get to watch the workmen outside your house as a little boy, and then say to yourself years later, “So that’s why I liked to see them with their shirts off.”

 

7. You get to sneak home muscle magazines under your jacket when you’re a teen.

 

8. You get to arrange a code word with your boyhood friend for when you want to go over to his house “to watch TV.”

 

9. You get to avoid going to the beach so that you don’t embarrass yourself in public.

 

10. You get to force disinterested responses when your college roommate tells you one Hollywood star or another is gay.

 

11. You get to admire only his honesty when your handsome, built college roommate tells you he himself is gay.

 

12. You get to limit yourself to quick, unrepeated glances at cute and/or muscular guys.

 

13. You get to sneak glances at the cute/muscular guys in your classroom while they’re taking tests.

 

14. You get to look for cute and/or muscular guys while looking over your wife’s shoulder.

 

15. You get to carry your wife’s purse, when she needs you to, by anything but the strap.

 

16. You get to drive while keeping a lookout for what might be watchable down the road, so that you can arrange to glance that way at the right time. It’s better to be a passenger.

 

17. You get to program the VCR, with its freeze-frame capability, to get the Marc Singer movies. Also the Hercules-type films, which teach you not to lock your knees when wearing shorts.

 

18. You get to check out Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc., especially on hot Saturday mornings, when the muscle shirts, tank tops, and shorts are everywhere.

 

19. You get to avoid, just in time, the mistake of asking the meaning of “California, the land of fruits and nuts.”

 

20. You get to choose, at the supermarket, between the short checkout lane with the pretty girl and the long checkout lane with the stunning stud.

 

21. You get to watch sports on TV for glimpses of muscle, like college football in the early fall when it’s still hot enough to wear short socks and short-sleeve jerseys.

 

22. You get to learn how to hold your head still and let your eyes wander anywhere they want.

 

23. You get to admire your wife’s firm belief that sexual orientation is innate and not chosen, because you know it is certainly true. She also enjoys “Will & Grace.”

 

24. You get to be grateful when your marital erection doesn’t start to fail you until well into middle age.

 

25. You get to feel guilty relief when your wife’s migraines and spells of depression mean less desire and less opportunity for sex.

 

26. You get to wonder what life would have been like if people had been as accepting then as they are today, which isn’t enough.

 

27. You get to answer yourself, “Yeah, but you’d probably be dead from AIDS by now; you were a horny bastard.”

 

28. You get to panic for an answer when a friend tells you he’s gay, you say, “So?” and he asks, “How come you’re so accepting?”

 

29. You get to remain ignorant of what it’s like to have a close male friend, because once you know his mind, you can’t help lusting for him. Not to mention that you can’t really share your inner self with him.

 

30. You get to observe the increasing signs of age and to realize that no one new is likely to love you any more.

 

31. You get to wonder if you’ll ever get a chance for physical contact with a man.

 

32. You get to wait fifty years, more or less, to get an Internet connection, which lets you look as long as you like at any interesting picture you find.

 

33. You get to stumble across a board where some of the escorts reveal bright minds and wonderfully complex personalities, as well as drool-over pictures.

 

34. You get to steal money from the joint checking account for time with an escort.

 

35. You get to exult when you finally get approval for a business trip out of town.

 

36. Finally, you get to spend your first time with a great escort.

 

37. And then, I get to go home and imagine what might have been, for the rest of my fucked-up life.

 

how uplifting...