How did we get here? and must we stay?

[Guest RyanCade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsGuy http://www.companyofmen.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif

You passed the test, Ryan.

 

I must say that I don't consider people who do bad things to us clients, clients are respectful and appreciate us as much as we appreciate them and genuinely care about our well being.. Some of you will find this post disenchanting; if I am the only voice to ever shares honestly and I am black balled for doing so, I will walk away knowing I have been true to myself and also to all of you. These words will ring true to some , but fall on deaf ears of others. For what it's worth, I do care or it wouldn't bother me. So I offer my words respectfully to those who will hear them in hopes of stirring the collective conscience of this form illuminate the seemingly blatant disregard for real people with real feelings.

 

That being said...... "I find it very sad and disappointing that a thread such as "what happened on your worst hire" can exist on the forum and even another created for the escorts, but the unwritten rule forbids us to share lest we suffer the harsh consequence that would surely follow. Very bad things happen to us as well and for some reason it sharing that would be considered totally disrespectful, however the paying client can share freely and we empathize and feel genuine sorrow for some of the things bad people, you thought were escorts did to you. I have been warned on a few occasions that my sharing honestly would not be a good idea, I am baffled at the this mindset has been adopted accepted here in MC. I am new and most of you guys have been here for a long time and have every right to watch out for yourselves, as it is clear that you have suffered many types of abuse and been taken advantage of over the years, however that does not negate the fact that there are two sides and escorts have been through and go through awful things and have feelings just like you. Somewhere along the line the value of your dollars have been placed over the value of the escorts services and their feelings. It is the product of generations of abuse on both sides and should be examined closely from both vantage points.. Because it is this way now does not mean it has to be forever.

 

Humans have magnificent minds and souls with an inherent good nature and boundless potential to do great and miraculous things. To see that quality being used to suppress the spirit of others truly saddens me. Especially when I think about why I love my job and how I came to love it. The good people who are my clients give back and nurture my spirit when they smile and share with me how special the moments we share are to them. The feeling of being able to brighten their day in a way that money cant buy and you can't grab it off the grocery store shelf. You can pay for sex and "get what you want" but money cant the relationships that develop as a bi product of the human interaction we engage in, in this particular field. My clients are well deserving of love and affection, and being capable of providing that is what keeps me going when the bad people strike. The letters of sincere appreciation and life changing experiences, trusting me making themselves vulnerable, wow what an amazing life.

 

Respect is not a given, it must be earned and must be reciprocal, mutual is a word we are all so fond of, yet I feel the need to post it's definition. If you honestly consider what I have laid out here and allow that inherent good nature just a moment to ponder I am certain you will see it too... I harbor no ill will, just a desire to be useful to myself and others... Be well and live today it's all any of us really have. Yesterday is gone and tomorrow is not promised.

 

Respectfully,

Ryan Cade

 

Quote:

A human being is part of the whole called

by us universe, a part limited in time and

space. We experience ourselves, our

thoughts and feelings as something

separate from the rest. A kind of optical

delusion of consciousness. This delusion

is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to

our personal desires and to affection for

a few persons nearest to us. Our task must

be to free ourselves from the prison by

widening our circle of compassion to

embrace all living creatures and the

whole of nature in its beauty. ... We

shall require a substantially new manner

of thinking if mankind is to survive.

~Albert Einstein

Quote:

The happiness of life is made up of minute fractions—the little soon-forgotten charities of a kiss, a smile, a kind look, a heartfelt compliment in the disguise of a playful raillery, and the countless other infinitessimals of pleasurable thought and genial feeling.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge

 

Entry Word: mutual

Function: adjective

Meaning: used or done by a number of people as a group <every film is a mutual effort by the director, writer, actors, and a host of others> —

Entry Word: relationshipFunction: noun

 

Entry Word: genuine

Function: adjective

Meaning: 1 being exactly as appears or as claimed <had a genuine van Goghhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif painting hanging in their living room> — see authentic 1

2 free from any intent to deceive or impress others <a woman so genuine she freely spoke her mind without fear of what others would think> — see guileless

__________________

[KMEM]

Far too many people believe in the "other" golden rule and that one says, those that have the gold, rule. Not fair? Of course, it isn't, but what are you going to do? Retire?

 

One can only try to maintain one's belief in karma, what goes around, comes around or the "real" golden rule, treat others as one would like to be treated.

 

Best regrards,

KMEM

[billhu]

Bravo

 

Ryan , simple message - you are right on. Bill

[josephga]

I agree with you. Clients can give reviews and talk about their horrible experiences with providers but If a provider does the same thing its looked down on. The escort or masseurs are looked at as bitter or non discrete or whatever. I had a massage client pepper spray me in the face because I wouldn't offer more than what I had already promised. This wasn't a client but trash/ garbage. I had a client tell a family member of mine that I gave sensual massages. I guess privacy and discrete doesn't apply to the clients as well as the providers... But as providers we arn't allowed to talk about such things.

[Guest RyanCade]

Far too many people believe in the "other" golden rule and that one says, those that have the gold, rule.

 

This way of thinking may be shared by many, though I would expect it to be more popular in the corporate world rather than a message board where clients feelings, insecurities, and sentimental client/escort relations are frequently discussed.

 

 

Not fair? Of course, it isn't, but what are you going to do? Retire?

Only if I were forced.... I receive as much as I could hope to give any of my clients. My rewards are great, just to name a few, I have a sense of purpose, I am validated and complimented regularly, and this one may be an unattractive answer to some, but I'm already under the bus; my self asteem has been restored from a once non-existent state. and I live a reasonably happy comfortable life. All as a result of working with the kindest, most compassionate and wonderful people I have ever encountered in my life... I truly believe in that inherent good nature I mentioned and have faith that there are enough people that desire to seek our common welfare rather than the stew in loneliness with all their shiny gold. Those who believe in the "other" golden rule should hold on to their gold.

 

One can only try to maintain one's belief in karma, what goes around, comes around or the "real" golden rule, treat others as one would like to be treated.

:)I am very fond of these two.....

 

:rolleyes:youre very right one can hope:rolleyes:

[Lookin]

Ryan , simple message - you are right on. Bill

 

Couldn't agree more, and want to thank Ryan for the effort put into crafting this post, and thinking the issues through so well.

 

Not an escort here, but spent many years in a service-oriented business dealing with many clients. Most were looking for a high level of service and knew that the person who could provide that level of service deserved not only fair compensation, but also respect for the work that went into providing it. But there were some clients who never understood that. And there were a few clients who had some personal issues that they thought they could work out at my expense.

 

In the early days, when my skills were developing, I had to put up with some clients that didn't give me basic respect for the work I did. I still tried to do my best, although I was very aware that they were not people I wanted in my life for very long.

 

As I became good at what I did, I got rid of those clients. Respectfully, I turned them over to others who did not provide them with good service, either because they were unmotivated or because they were still learning. In any event, these clients rarely got good service. I also believe that many remained unhappy people. In time, I retained a wonderful base of clients, got plenty of positive feedback, and made a good living.

 

While my profession wasn't that of an escort, I think the dynamics were analogous. There are some "clients" whose life experiences have not yet taught them the value of respect and fairness. All they have, so far, is the money to hire escorts. Until they have those life experiences, they will not be good clients. Nor are they likely to have good experiences with escorts. They'll either get escorts whose skills aren't well developed, or they'll get good escorts who won't want to see them again.

 

From what I know of MsGuy and KMEM, I expect their quips were meant to reflect the reality that some escorts have to deal with these clients. Whether because they're still learning or because they haven't yet found a better line of work, they don't want to offend someone who has the cash they need.

 

I think the "worst client experiences" thread is every bit as valid as the "worst escort experiences" thread. But I'd expect some blowback (so to speak) from less evolved clients, and I wouldn't expect every escort to want to participate.

 

Still, I think you've raised an issue that's important both within and outside the escort profession and I thank you for doing it.

[+ newatthis]

...I think the "worst client experiences" thread is every bit as valid as the "worst escort experiences" thread. But I'd expect some blowback (so to speak) from less evolved clients, and I wouldn't expect every escort to want to participate...

My guess is that escorts like Ryan who have an established record in the MC as reasonable, "real" people no longer want those less evolved clients and would be happy to attract a few more of those who like him precisely because he is who he is. But maybe I have an imperfect understanding of the economics of escorting, and maybe less evolved clients are necessary to making a living.

[+ Lucky]

For what it is worth, I don't see why escorts could not reveal their stories on difficult clients. In this case, identities must be disguised, but otherwise, why not?

[josephga]

I don't see the big deal either its not like they going to name names.

[Guest greatness]

Love ya~~

 

Ryan, I love your passion for justice!

[Businessguy]

Givers versus Takers

 

Ryan, You obviously have strong feeling about this and I agree with most of what you said. I think of it this way. There are Givers and Takers in this world. I consider you one of the Givers. Don't let the Takers get you down. They don't get it and never will.

[Guest RyanCade]

For what it is worth, I don't see why escorts could not reveal their stories on difficult clients. In this case, identities must be disguised, but otherwise, why not?

 

The issue reaches far into many other areas on the forum this just being the chosen catalyst for the discussion is and but a fraction of the quotable examples.. Even one of our posters screen name that is very offensive to me. This type of silent consent can be likened to a family with abuse issues and no one is to talk about it.. It's as obvious as an elephant standing in the middle of your living room and as uncomfortable if everyone saw the elephant but pretended it was not there. periodically the elephant is mentioned in a passive aggressive way, so as not to be confronted because you didn't specifically mention the Elephant.. It's an interesting and very affective means of manipulation and control. When is it appropriate to be yourself and share and when is it not. who decides? and THANK YOU LUCKY for participating in the discussion.. I mean that sincerely.. There are many viewers and many missing very active contributors.

[Guest RyanCade]

back at ya!!

 

Ryan, I love your passion for justice!

 

and I love your passion for being kind...

[Guest RyanCade]

I appreciate everyone who has posted, i am actually surprised. I thought for sure it would at least sit for a day or two before an innocent newbie came along and threw himself under the bus with me... I am impressed... :

[Guest greatness]

Life is full of surprise

 

I think life is full of surprises...

 

I appreciate everyone who has posted, i am actually surprised. I thought for sure it would at least sit for a day or two before an innocent newbie came along and threw himself under the bus with me... I am impressed... :

[seeker630]

I agree!

 

For what it is worth, I don't see why escorts could not reveal their stories on difficult clients. In this case, identities must be disguised, but otherwise, why not?

 

But what would - or should - be the purpose? Is to vent, to entertain, or to 'instruct'?

[seeker630]

Can you clarify?

 

The issue reaches far into many other areas on the forum this just being the chosen catalyst for the discussion is and but a fraction of the quotable examples.. Even one of our posters screen name that is very offensive to me. This type of silent consent can be likened to a family with abuse issues and no one is to talk about it.. It's as obvious as an elephant standing in the middle of your living room and as uncomfortable if everyone saw the elephant but pretended it was not there. periodically the elephant is mentioned in a passive aggressive way, so as not to be confronted because you didn't specifically mention the Elephant.. It's an interesting and very affective means of manipulation and control. When is it appropriate to be yourself and share and when is it not. who decides? and THANK YOU LUCKY for participating in the discussion.. I mean that sincerely.. There are many viewers and many missing very active contributors.

 

I'm finding this a very thought-provoking thread. If I understand you, you're saying there is a double-standard here in the MC and escorts have fewer 'rights'?

Certainly escorts are the minority in the MC, and I can remember instances where they were not accorded the same respect as clients by SOME MC members. (And on a side-note, I suspect I know the offensive member name you're thinking - I noticed a name that other day and thought, 'How did they let that one through'.

I'm afraid I don't follow the 'manipulation and control' part of your argument tho.

 

As for who decides "When is it appropriate to be yourself and share and when is it not" - YOU do. Others may express differing opinions, but that's part of what this MC is supposed to allow. Of course there's always the probabliity that we won't LIKE some of those opinions.

[+ Lucky]

But what would - or should - be the purpose? Is to vent, to entertain, or to 'instruct'?

 

 

I like "vent" and "entertain." We want escorts to participate here, but we often hold them to a higher standard. I know that they are businessmen who often come here to promote themselves, but that is just one factor they need to consider before they post. Raul G Manzo manages to get involved in the discussions here without losing customers. Juan Vancouver always did well.

 

Just like the rest of us, the escort needs to figure out what "flies" and what doesn't. Mistakes will be made. I've made some too. But, if we are a friendly place, those mistakes don't have to be critical ones. Many brouhahas are forgotten within days.

[whipped guy]

 

The good people who are my clients give back and nurture my spirit when they smile and share with me how special the moments we share are to them. The feeling of being able to brighten their day in a way that money cant buy and you can't grab it off the grocery store shelf.

 

Respect is not a given, it must be earned and must be reciprocal,

 

Not an escort here, but spent many years in a service-oriented business dealing with many clients. Most were looking for a high level of service and knew that the person who could provide that level of service deserved not only fair compensation, but also respect for the work that went into providing it. But there were some clients who never understood that.

 

There are some "clients" whose life experiences have not yet taught them the value of respect and fairness. All they have, so far, is the money to hire escorts. Until they have those life experiences, they will not be good clients. Nor are they likely to have good experiences with escorts. They'll either get escorts whose skills aren't well developed, or they'll get good escorts who won't want to see them again.

I truly believe in that inherent good nature I mentioned and have faith that there are enough people that desire to seek our common welfare...

Ryan, You obviously have strong feeling about this and I agree with most of what you said. I think of it this way. There are Givers and Takers in this world. I consider you one of the Givers. Don't let the Takers get you down. They don't get it and never will.

I'm finding this a very thought-provoking thread. If I understand you, you're saying there is a double-standard here in the MC and escorts have fewer 'rights'?

As a person who is also in a service-oriented profession I see so much wisdom here that I simply needed to pick out the gems… Yes, there are clients and then there are clients... Plus, there are indeed quite a few sincere and quite exceptional individuals out there... and on both sides of the equation... that make this madness that we call life so worthwhile.

 

Also, these is just enough controversy to make this thread interesting to say the least…

 

A while back I noted that Ryan was “one of the good ones”. Now I didn’t say that he was perfect or the last word… but I sensed a sincere individual with a strong desire to get things right. Now the road to perfection is a long and arduous one… and after traversing that road it soon becomes evident that there is “no such thing as perfection in life”… but even though the “quest” is technically futile… it will always be the “good ones” who will endeavor to negotiate that thorny and intricate thoroughfare… and do so in a truthful and thoughtful manner.

[NYTomcat]

my 2 cents

 

Ryan

 

If nothing else you just proved your own metal.

I think many of us have noted the double standard that escorts are required to live under on the forum some will even have warned you away from the hot topics. But the reality is you are absolutely correct. I think any warnings you got were in the way of professional pitfalls to avoid but they are at the best requiring you to live under a gag order. Not a place I would abide nor should you. As we have discussed I often where my heart on my sleeve as do many of the other posters here. I got my share of comments as have all the others who share themselves wholely and intimately herein. We however only face the ridicule where you face the professional blowback as well

I have said before your clear and honest posts say much about the person you are as well as the escort you are. Keep being that person and the clients you want will flock to you. The others you probably didn't want and they will find other service providers. Continue please and know that while I can only speak for myself you have made your self very attractive in your honest and intimate sharing of yourself to at least one potential client. Keep it up.(pun intended ) its nice to know there is a really thoughtful person behind that pretty face.

[seattlebottom]

I would welcome a frank discussion on client shortcomings. I don't hire very often (last time was in Oct 2008) , but I do know that I must give escorts a bad time due to not clearly communicating what I want. Anything to make people better clients would be great.

[JoeyBryant]

but the unwritten rule forbids us to share lest we suffer the harsh consequence that would surely follow. Very bad things happen to us as well and for some reason it sharing that would be considered totally disrespectful

 

Ryan, I'm going to herald you as being one brave fucker I'm so glad that finally, one of us comes out and tells it how it is, for once. In public. I was dealing with the same nonsense which is why I ended up 'walking off' this board few weeks ago.

 

It can really make you feel self-conscious when you spend time writing about something bad that happened, or state your disagreement only to be emailed by (usually) a competitor to sit back and be a yes man and wear a big in every post.

 

The escort or masseurs are looked at as bitter or non discrete or whatever.

 

Exactly. Its like, unless we use a in every post, we are "bitter" for disagreeing, "vile" for refuting another escorts 'warnings or posts', and "negative complainers" for bringing up a topic about swarms of timewasters or a client trying to rip us off.

 

I thought for sure it would at least sit for a day or two before an innocent newbie came along and threw himself under the bus with me

 

I rather piss under the MC bus than to be pissed on the MC bus any day.

 

Many brouhahas are forgotten within days.

 

I hope so! some things you just want to fall off page 1 ASAP lol. Forgive and forget it already. The Dear fellow escorts thread was fixed on top for weeks, and I didn't even expect it'd be that serious!

[Guest zipperzone]

For what it is worth, I don't see why escorts could not reveal their stories on difficult clients. In this case, identities must be disguised, but otherwise, why not?

 

Unless I'm going ga ga in my advancing years, I am sure that there have been many posts by escorts complaining about the conduct of some clients. As long as they did not give any information that could identify the client, I see nothing wrong with this. The only time I get pissed off is when the escort so clearly asked to be treated badly due to his own conduct or attitude and then tried to blame the client.

[Bart]

Dear Ryan:

I see no reason why you can not be yourself on here. In fact that is the primary purpose of my being part of this discussion forum is learn more about the industry, pass along my experiences and to learn about gentleman as yourself. My type of hire I look for both fun and connection and have found this as a good place to learn about gentleman I may have an interest in.

 

As you may find the thread bad experiences a distasteful one, it can also be one that is informative to both the client and the gentleman. There have been plenty of threads extolling the virtues of many different gentlemen. How many threads do we have about who should I hire and many wonderful gentleman have their names listed. 99% of the time if I have had a negative time with an gentleman, I will private message not public message. I am not as keen on spreading negativity especially if I felt the gentleman performed adequately but there just was no connection or felt awkward.

 

If you want distastefull there are plenty of us old timers here who can remember quite the list of former posters who are no longer here. If you want to see how a person can be dragged through the mud, just do research on Benjamin Nicholas even long before his blog was shot down, he was the primary focus for several posters, very brutal. Scott Adler was the focus of attacks several years ago, again repeatedly viscious. Sometimes posters have a good thought but refuse to listen to others and bring it up time and time again.

 

I do agree with Zip's post 100%, we can all learn from hearing about experiences provided we handle in a professional manner and it does not come off as a whine from either side. Again as you have said, we are all human.

 

I do have a couple of points to pick on though. First, the gentlemen do have a safety net, that is Daddy and you are well aware of it. Daddy quashed the thread as he has done numerous times and although it was certainly a very negative situation for you, it proved to be a learning experience for us all and I think you are wearing the scar proudly now. I know it was a tough first experience but you have rebounded.

 

Second, if a negative review is issued you have the last word. Your response to that is critical for me. How you handle a stressful situation for me may very well be the difference between if I and others consider hiring you or not. I think most of us understand that both clients and escorts can have a bad day and sometimes the connection is just not there. I just feel that response is very important you even get a second or third chance to write the response if it does not come off well.

 

Finally I will toss my spear on this issue, I actually feel there are times that this forum and reviews go way to far in favor of the gentlemen. I am sorry to say but there are rotten apples on both sides. I wish there was an easier way for gentlemen to find out about time wasters and abusive or non-paying clients, but the fact remains there are also street walkers amongst you who have no qualms about stealing and threatening clients. In addition, I think there are times this place goes out of its way to give gentlemen 3,4 a dozen chances to clean up his game. I am sure the creator will say he took a stand on a purported gentleman, although his actions on this board could not be any further from the name, it took how long before he did so. If it were a poster would he have waited as long?

 

I applaud you for taking a stance, to be honest and speak from your heart and not come off as someone promoting themselves. I think it is always good to try to be in the other persons shoes once in awhile. Sometimes we just have to walk away for 24 hours, even Daddy does this.

 

When we come back and look around again I will realize the door opens in not out, what a fool I was to keep pushing when I should have openned my heart and my mind.

[justaguy]

"I find it very sad and disappointing that a thread such as "what happened on your worst hire" can exist on the forum"

 

Yes, but it serves a purpose. Outside this forum there is precious little on how to go about hiring and interacting with an escort. It would be nice if the "Dummies" series included a book on escorting, but it doesn't. The sad part is that one of the things a client is most probably going to have to learn is how to handle a bad situation. Knowing that many others have been in the same predicament helps, both in terms of recognizing that something is wrong and in dealing with it. Personally, I favor the inclusion of all voices and perspectives and prefer reading about positive experiences rather than negative ones. However, because the negative is a big part of the world, I think it, too, needs to be addressed.