Pls help set my mind at ease

[eastbayguy]

CT Dick,

 

My initial reaction is that this stinks to high heaven. All sorts of things are just plain wrong here.

 

>Now, they have taken me to court in California. At

>compounding interest and triple damages, they figure I owe

>them $1,836.00 and there is supposed to be a court order

>against me. Being over one thou, I have committed a felony

>(grand larceny).

 

This is nonsense. Unless you are a California resident, you are out of reach of the California state courts. If you are a resident of, say, Connecticut (CT?) then any civil suit would need to be filed against you in a Connecticut court. Filing a suit requires them to notify you in a legally defined manner. There would have to be records. Insist on copies.

 

Although I have not read the complaint or seen any documentation in this matter, I do not believe you have committed a felony.

 

>I have never heard from these people. No one ever sent me a

>bill. No one called me. (I've had the same phone number and

>address for 25 years.)

 

Ask for written copies of all records, etc. Make sure you correspond in writing.

 

>I am calling my lawyer on Monday but would greatly

>appreciate some informed opinion about how much I have to

>worry about.

 

Based on your representation of the facts, I do not believe you have much to worry about. Frankly, this sounds like a scam or some guy who has purchased uncollected credit card charges for pennies on the dollar trying to make a fast buck. A few suggestions:

 

Before your lawyer fires a salvo or two at them, call them on the phone. Be nice, cordial, act like you intend to pay. Call from a pay phone or location other than your residence. Ask for copies of all records. I suggest renting a post office box just for this correspondence to be sent to. Play dumb. If someone thinks you are cooperating, they may send you materials that damages or undermines their position.

 

In addition to contacting your own lawyer, notify state and federal consumer protection agencies in your area. Does a media outlet (radio, TV, newspaper) in your area have a consumer "fight back" feature? Sometimes a little media attention goes a long way in dimming the enthusiasm of a con artist. After you get some facts, I believe I'd call the appropriate Federal law enforcement agency as well. The collection agency here may have violated Federal laws.

 

Most important: DO NOT PAY any amount until a lawyer representing you reviews the documentation and advises you.

 

Keep us posted. I'd be really curious to hear how this ends up for you.

 

--EBG

[CT Dick]

This afternoon (Saturday), I got a phone call from a collection agency. The best I can figure is that I used a phone sex service in 1995. They got my credit card # and charged me for seven extra services at $35 per. Evidently, I called Mastercard and challenged the charges and M/C charged the bills back.

 

I don't remember any of this since it was 7 years ago.

 

Now, they have taken me to court in California. At compounding interest and triple damages, they figure I owe them $1,836.00 and there is supposed to be a court order against me. Being over one thou, I have committed a felony (grand larceny).

 

I have never heard from these people. No one ever sent me a bill. No one called me. (I've had the same phone number and address for 25 years.)

 

I am calling my lawyer on Monday but would greatly appreciate some informed opinion about how much I have to worry about.

 

Dick

[Will]

This has been one of the worst weeks of my adult life, partially but not only because I spent two hours on Tuesday afternoon and six-and-a-half hours on Wednesday in my lawyer's office. On Tuesday he was coaching me; and on Wednesday we had six hours of depositions, three of them just for me because the plaintiff's lawyer had an IQ lower than my pulse rate. I was/am the defendant in a breach-of-contract suit regarding a house I decided not to buy. After the depositions, my lawyer told me that it was clear to him (as it was to me), as well as to the other lawyer, that we had carried the day. The contract itself was invalid on two different grounds; and during the accountant's deposition regarding damages it became clear that they had given the term "funny numbers" new meaning.

 

Nonetheless, my lawyer assures me that it would be cheaper for me to settle with them for about $5,000 than to spend what it would take to file a motion to dismiss the case, with follow-up if it were necessary.

 

Dick, I know what it feels like to be ambushed. There are lawyers on this site -- Regulation seems to be truly expert -- but your anxiety is something that no lawyer can actually fix. I don't know this, of course, but I'd be surprised if you're liable. First, I don't think you are liable for charges when you have already informed your credit card company that you have been fraudently charged, especially by the party who is making the claim. Second -- and this comes from my experience the other day, I wonder if it would be worth it to them to take you to court for a lousy $1,800. The "collection agency" is just strong-arming you. What's more, in my state you have to have gone over $5,000 for it to be a felony.

 

This sounds like a scam, and what pisses me off is that you've had to pay -- already -- in anxiety, self-doubt, and all the rest. I'll bet that nothing comes of it, and that your lawyer will assure you of that on Monday. Meanwhile, try to forget about it. There's nothing you can do between now and Monday anyhow.

 

But do keep us posted!

[OneFinger]

First, I'm sorry to hear of this mess and don't know how much help I can be. But, one thing I do know is collectors are liars so don't believe or trust anything they say. :'(

 

That said, here's my take on things: [ol][li]In order for there to be a judgement against you, the courts would have to serve you papers of the hearing. Since you've had the same phone number for years, you're not that hard to find. I suspect the collectors are bluffing about receiving a judgement against you. [li]IF there is a judgement against you, again the courts would have contacted you by registered mail. [li]Contact your credit card company and tell them about this. Sounds like it may be a scam that they'd be able to help you with. Since you paid for this my credit card and put it in dispute, they need to be involved. [li]I suspect this is some "bulldog" that makes his living by trying to collect old debts and is trying to intimidate you into a quick settlement. [li]I also suspect you're probably over the age of 50 and these "bulldogs" often target older people thinking they can scare them into paying. Fight back and don't let some snot nosed kid get the best of you.[/ol]

I fully agree you need an attorney to guide you in this matter. Also demand that all future correspondence be done in writting since nothing they say over the phone can be proved in court. Force them to provide you with paperwork of the judgement. Force them to provide you with a written accounting of how charges and interest were calculated. Threaten to file a complaint against them for violating the Fair Debt Collection Act.

 

Write detailed notes of your conversation with them today. Include date, time, names, and summary of the conversation. Next time they call keep detailed notes including your statement NOT to call you again and only correspond in writing.

 

Take care but don't ignore this issue. They could create real problems for you.

[Michael]

>First, I don't think you are liable for

>charges when you have already informed your credit card

>company that you have been fraudently charged, especially by

>the party who is making the claim.

 

You aren't liable to the credit card company if you have followed

all of their procedures in disputing the charges, but the question

of whether or not you actually owe anything to the company that

attempted to charge your credit card in the first place is a completely

separate issue and depends on whether or not you did, in fact, receive

any goods and / or services from them and whether you paid for them.

[Guest Merlin]

CT Dick, all states have statutes of limitations, and most are shorter than 7 years. Failing to pay a civil debt is not a crime, and even if the prosecutor believed that you bought the services without the intention to pay, and regarded this as fraud, there is virtually no chance that he would want to prosecute it. I computing the amount for felony purposes you do not add prejudgment (or post judgment) civil interest, so it is a $35 case at worst. Again, there is a statute of limitations on criminal cases, and while it varies from state to state, it is undoubtedly less than 7 years for something like this. Did the collection agency tell you this is felony because over $1000? If so it may committed the crime of extortion, and a violation of the Federal Statutes dealing with collection agencies. I this your lawyer will have fun with this one.

[Guest Charon]

I agree, collectors are liars. I had one dog me about a charge I disputed and I told him to go to hell. Had to do it a couple of times, but eventually he did.

 

Some collection agencies buy the unpaid bills of companies for pennies on the dollar, and then go try to collect. They don't really care whether the bills are all that valid, they're just trying to squeeze you and will say about anything if it will get you to cough up the bucks they think they've got coming to them.

[guyinsf]

I'm wondering if this is an entire scam. All of these years you have received no calls, no bills, no correspondence -- and then they contact you with this outrageous demand for payment? I don't see how the small amount you initially allegedly owed could have ballooned to over $1,000, unless there was, in fact, a judgment against you already. And, as someone else pointed out, you would have been served a notice about the hearing if that had happened. They can't make up their own "judgment."

 

I agree with the other advice: Tell them to communicate with you ONLY by writing. If this is legitimate, they will do so. If you have caller id and they call again, take down the number and provide it to your local phone company.

 

I wouldn't worry right now if I were you. Even if this is a legitimate collection agency trying to collect an old debt, some of what you were told on the phone doesn't make sense. Also, since those who work for collection agencies rely on collections for their income, it isn't uncommon for them to use sleazy practices to try to bring in money.

[+ deej]

<<I don't see how the small amount you initially allegedly owed could have ballooned to over $1,000,>>

 

That's the part that sticks out for me as TOTALLY ODD.

 

Debt collectors (I've known a few people that work for them) typically are only unleashed when the debt holder is willing to settle for a portion of the original debt. The debt certainly doesn't get larger. If anything, they'll settle for a percentage of the original debt or the they wouldn't be calling in the first place.

 

Did they even try to make a deal?

[buzz]

Dick:

 

This type of harassment is unnerving as hell but I suspect you'll be fine.

 

I had a similar problem some years back and by being firm and uncompromising, the scam artists gave up.

 

You have had a lot of excellent advice from previous posters. Indeed, don't do anything or promise anything on the phone. The guys who said to get everything in writing are exactly right. I would also add -- DON'T give them your address over the phone. Tell them to send the documentation to the address of record that they have. In my case they had the wrong address so they couldn't even provide me with back-up materials. They might not even have the right address for you.

 

Also, as at least one guy said, be sure to check with the credit card company. They should be able to provide confirmation that THEY had determined the additional charges to be fraudulent.

 

Also, this should not in anyway affect your credit rating, but once you have resolved this, it wouldn't hurt to check your credit rating with the big three credit rating companies just to make sure the scumbags haven't tried to hit you there. It's not likely to happen, but just be safe.

 

Good luck. The whole thing sounds like a filthy fraud.

 

buzz

[Guest Spunk]

Addendum to my previous post. I forgot to mention that in California the statue of limitations is 4 years. You said this happened 7 years ago, therefore unless there is a judgment (and I really dobt there is one) it's an uncolletable debt. Also, in California the rate on a debt is 10% per year. They can also charge reasonable legal fees.

 

One thing that continues to bother me is that you mentioned this was a charge bak to the merchant bank of the phone service company. it doesn't sound as if your credit card company is doing anything, it sounds more like the pone service company is the one who has been trying to collect on the debt by re-selling it.

[Guest Spunk]

>

>>

>Now, they have taken me to court in California. At

>compounding interest and triple damages, they figure I owe

>them $1,836.00 and there is supposed to be a court order

>against me. Being over one thou, I have committed a felony

>(grand larceny).

>

Dick, While I'm not in California I know the Collection law in EVERY STATE. First take a deep breath you have nothing to worry about.

 

In California a plantiff can sue for up to 5000. a limited number of times per county. You have NOT committed a felony, a debt is a civil matter not a criminal matter. IF they have judgment against you ask for a copy of the judgment, actually put it in writing to them. Everything you send to them send certified return receipt requested.

 

It appears your debt had been sold to an agency. Send them the copy of the credit you received from the credit card issuer. If you do not have this then call the issuer of the card that was charged and get a copy of the statement that reflects the amount refunded.

 

Then send them a letter stating you are demanding no contact to your home or work phone numbers. That all contact must be in written form to you. Also, in that letter dispute the debt.

 

Note: if they send you an actual judgment take it to the court to see if it is valid. If it is then you will need to appeal as there is no proof of service. I doubt there is a judgment. It would show on 2 of the 3 major credit gathering agencies. They pick up court judgments and report them for 7 or 10 years depending on the agency.

 

Anyway, if you need more help send me a private note. I don't want to see you waste money on an attoeny. It is not nec. at this point. These Collectors are not the originator and must follow the FDCPA & in California the Robbins Collections Act.

 

Now go watch a good porno or hire an escort and enjoy your weekend!

[CT Dick]

thanks x 1000

 

Guys, you really did set my mind at ease. Thanks for all the reassuring advice.

 

I've decided to deal first with my credit card company (MBNA). That is free advice. When I receive something in writing, I'll go to my lawyer. Sound good?

 

Again, I really appreciate all the support. Tonight a 5"4' Puerto Rican bottom will help me forget my troubles. }>

 

Gratefully,

Dick

[buzz]

RE: thanks x 1000

 

Hi Dick,

 

Glad you're feeling better about this...and I'm sure that 5'4" bottom really made your worries fly.

 

Let us know how all this works out. Your last message sounds as if you are on the right track. BTW, I use MBNA and I have always found them to be very pleasant and helpful.

 

Cheers

buzz

[+ deej]

RE: thanks x 1000

 

>Again, I really appreciate all the support. Tonight a 5"4'

>Puerto Rican bottom will help me forget my troubles.

 

Forget the credit card issues! Tell about this little 'Rican bottom!

 

LOL

[Guest regulation]

RE: thanks x 1000

 

Some of the advice you have gotten here is reasonable and some is utter bullshit. For example, it is ridiculous to state that unless you are a California resident you are "out of reach of the California courts." Like every other state, California has what is called a "long arm statute" that gives its courts jurisdiction over nonresidents in certain circumstances. Never mind all that, however.

 

To make a long story short, I think you have nothing to worry about EXCEPT the possibility that one of the major credit reporting agencies has been told you have a debt that has been placed for collection, which could damage your credit rating. Your attorney could arrange for a credit check which would tell you whether this has happened or not. If it has, you will have to jump through a certain number of hoops in order to clear it up. If you do nothing about this, you simply won't know until you have a credit application that is turned down.

 

As for the judgment, while it is possible that a judgment has been entered against you in California, unless you have property there it can only be enforced by taking it to a court in your state. The courts of most states require a notice and hearing before they will enforce an out-of-state judgment. Given the small amount of money involved, it is highly unlikely that anyone will go to that trouble. The legal fees for that process would be more than the amount of the judgment.

[Justice]

The bastards! You have my sympathies. Although I don't think that you have anything to worry about, you do need to worry about your credit rating. Get a copy of your credit report -- from each of the three major credit reporting agencies. Do it now and again in a couple of weeks -- just in case. I believe that you can order credit reports on-line for a nominal fee. (Some states -- including New Jersey -- require that these reports be provided without charge.) That way you can challenge any bad information. Unfortunately, as Reg noted it can be very difficult to clean up a credit report. At a minimum, I believe that you can include a statement which gives your version of the problem.

[CT Dick]

Update (good news)

 

First, the 5"4 Puerto Rican bottom was versatile. By the time he finished fucking me in EVERY imaginable position, I was too pooped to top him. What a session. (No reviews, he is on leave from the Army and going back to active service. I found him through a friend.)

 

I called MBNA and they were great. They though it was a scam. I had used the Federally recognised procedure to challenge a charge and cannot be found liable. They also said that any claims against me would show up in a credit report (as one of you suggested.)

 

I went online to www. experian.com and paid $12.95 for a full credit report. Nothing like that showed up.

 

What DID show up was that in December my mortgage company bookkeepers fucked up and they claimed I hadn't paid. I called and they realized their mistake and corrected it. (I had a mortgage on two properties and paid both with one check. That month, they credited double to one and nothing to another.) But, it did show up on my credit report as an "over 30 day late" incident. I called the co. and they are correcting my credit history.

 

Lesson to us all: periodically check your credit rating and look for errors.

 

Again, my thanks for your good advice and support.

 

Dick

[Will]

RE: Update (good news)

 

I'm so glad to know that it all worked out as we thought it did.

 

By the way, when the 5'4" soldier gets out of the army, do you think he'll go into the business?

 

You AREN'T the "Connecticut Dick" in this morning's on-site "News" column are you?????????

[Guest dave_nyc]

What a great thread....

 

You know, boys, this thread did this site proud today. Good for everyone.

 

Dave

[CT Dick]

RE: Update (good news)

 

>You AREN'T the "Connecticut Dick" in this morning's on-site

>"News" column are you?????????

 

Uh, I don't think so. At least I hope not.

 

Dick