Cardinal Law Blames Victim

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Disagreement is good for the sole.

 

It's not bad for the soul, either.

 

Oh God - another blond moment - oh well, I never applied for the job of secretary.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Disagreement is good for the sole.

 

It's not bad for the soul, either.

 

Oh God - another blond moment - oh well, I never applied for the job of secretary.

 

Thunderbuns

[BewareofNick]

It's an age old tale...

 

Cardinal Law thinks he knows what's best for you, for the Catholic Church and for everyone else, which is precisely why he hasn't a clue.

 

He is not used to being questioned and is mad not about the scandal or what happened to these poor kids. He's mad that you question him and his judgement.

 

He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny. Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from his position.

 

Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

[BewareofNick]

It's an age old tale...

 

Cardinal Law thinks he knows what's best for you, for the Catholic Church and for everyone else, which is precisely why he hasn't a clue.

 

He is not used to being questioned and is mad not about the scandal or what happened to these poor kids. He's mad that you question him and his judgement.

 

He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny. Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from his position.

 

Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

[BewareofNick]

It's an age old tale...

 

Cardinal Law thinks he knows what's best for you, for the Catholic Church and for everyone else, which is precisely why he hasn't a clue.

 

He is not used to being questioned and is mad not about the scandal or what happened to these poor kids. He's mad that you question him and his judgement.

 

He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny. Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from his position.

 

Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

[trilingual]

Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

There are alternatives to this. The Roman Catholic Church isn't the only game in town. I know how difficult it can be to finally abandon a church, especially one somebody's grown up in, but in the case of the Catholic church, it's a fatally flawed institution and it's only a matter of time before it starts crumbling. Regrettably, the current Pope has utterly stacked the hierarchy of the Church with people as conservative and out of touch as he is (if not more so). He's made sure that there will be no meaningful reform in any of our lifetimes. The undemocratic structure of the Church also ensures that the views of lay people also are ignored. I really doubt that most Catholics, at least those in the developed countries, will be able to stomach the Church's regressive approach. In many Western European countries, people are already dropping out in droves. It's time that started happening in the U.S.

 

For anyone who'd miss the tradition and ritual, check out the Episcopal Church. It's very similar liturgically, but it doesn't require a celibate priesthood and admits women as priests. It also is dealing more honestly with the issues of gays in the church, not to mention other issues of sexual morality. Even though the Episcopal Church is also hierarchical, lay members have a considerably larger voice in the church than in the Catholic church. (Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his archdiocese from forming an association and communicating with each other.)

 

In short, time to say "enough". It would be one thing if there were any hope of things getting better, but there isn't. Just walk out the door and into a new one where you'll be welcome and where you don't have to feel intelectually and spiritually dishonest. Just my two cents, which I definitely wouldn't be contributing to a certain well-known Roman church. . .

[trilingual]

Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

There are alternatives to this. The Roman Catholic Church isn't the only game in town. I know how difficult it can be to finally abandon a church, especially one somebody's grown up in, but in the case of the Catholic church, it's a fatally flawed institution and it's only a matter of time before it starts crumbling. Regrettably, the current Pope has utterly stacked the hierarchy of the Church with people as conservative and out of touch as he is (if not more so). He's made sure that there will be no meaningful reform in any of our lifetimes. The undemocratic structure of the Church also ensures that the views of lay people also are ignored. I really doubt that most Catholics, at least those in the developed countries, will be able to stomach the Church's regressive approach. In many Western European countries, people are already dropping out in droves. It's time that started happening in the U.S.

 

For anyone who'd miss the tradition and ritual, check out the Episcopal Church. It's very similar liturgically, but it doesn't require a celibate priesthood and admits women as priests. It also is dealing more honestly with the issues of gays in the church, not to mention other issues of sexual morality. Even though the Episcopal Church is also hierarchical, lay members have a considerably larger voice in the church than in the Catholic church. (Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his archdiocese from forming an association and communicating with each other.)

 

In short, time to say "enough". It would be one thing if there were any hope of things getting better, but there isn't. Just walk out the door and into a new one where you'll be welcome and where you don't have to feel intelectually and spiritually dishonest. Just my two cents, which I definitely wouldn't be contributing to a certain well-known Roman church. . .

[trilingual]

Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

There are alternatives to this. The Roman Catholic Church isn't the only game in town. I know how difficult it can be to finally abandon a church, especially one somebody's grown up in, but in the case of the Catholic church, it's a fatally flawed institution and it's only a matter of time before it starts crumbling. Regrettably, the current Pope has utterly stacked the hierarchy of the Church with people as conservative and out of touch as he is (if not more so). He's made sure that there will be no meaningful reform in any of our lifetimes. The undemocratic structure of the Church also ensures that the views of lay people also are ignored. I really doubt that most Catholics, at least those in the developed countries, will be able to stomach the Church's regressive approach. In many Western European countries, people are already dropping out in droves. It's time that started happening in the U.S.

 

For anyone who'd miss the tradition and ritual, check out the Episcopal Church. It's very similar liturgically, but it doesn't require a celibate priesthood and admits women as priests. It also is dealing more honestly with the issues of gays in the church, not to mention other issues of sexual morality. Even though the Episcopal Church is also hierarchical, lay members have a considerably larger voice in the church than in the Catholic church. (Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his archdiocese from forming an association and communicating with each other.)

 

In short, time to say "enough". It would be one thing if there were any hope of things getting better, but there isn't. Just walk out the door and into a new one where you'll be welcome and where you don't have to feel intelectually and spiritually dishonest. Just my two cents, which I definitely wouldn't be contributing to a certain well-known Roman church. . .

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny.

>Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from

>his position.

>

>Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

 

I don't think you should hold your breath waiting on this one.

 

From the images of PJP on TV these days, one has to wonder if he is even capable of understanding what is happening in his American dioceses. He looks "out of it" and usually doesn't even focus his eyes on the person he is talking too.

 

Another flaw of this church is that they allow their Popes to rule until their death. If they become mentally deficient, underlings make the decisions - thereby putting people who were not elected, in charge.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny.

>Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from

>his position.

>

>Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

 

I don't think you should hold your breath waiting on this one.

 

From the images of PJP on TV these days, one has to wonder if he is even capable of understanding what is happening in his American dioceses. He looks "out of it" and usually doesn't even focus his eyes on the person he is talking too.

 

Another flaw of this church is that they allow their Popes to rule until their death. If they become mentally deficient, underlings make the decisions - thereby putting people who were not elected, in charge.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>He feels his power and position places him above scrutiny.

>Therefore, someone with more power needs to remove him from

>his position.

>

>Pope John Paul? The ball is in your court.

 

I don't think you should hold your breath waiting on this one.

 

From the images of PJP on TV these days, one has to wonder if he is even capable of understanding what is happening in his American dioceses. He looks "out of it" and usually doesn't even focus his eyes on the person he is talking too.

 

Another flaw of this church is that they allow their Popes to rule until their death. If they become mentally deficient, underlings make the decisions - thereby putting people who were not elected, in charge.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his

>foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

The logistics of this maneuver would be interesting to see :-)

 

(Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting >the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his

>archdiocese from forming an association and communicating

>with each other.)

 

I have always thought that this church does not encourage people to think for themselves. They prefer those with a sheep-like mentality who do as they are told without questioning.

 

Your whole post was very reasoned and right on the mark. Sadly, nothing is going to change. Just like any other big business, the only way to get their attention is where it hurts - right in the pocketbook.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his

>foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

The logistics of this maneuver would be interesting to see :-)

 

(Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting >the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his

>archdiocese from forming an association and communicating

>with each other.)

 

I have always thought that this church does not encourage people to think for themselves. They prefer those with a sheep-like mentality who do as they are told without questioning.

 

Your whole post was very reasoned and right on the mark. Sadly, nothing is going to change. Just like any other big business, the only way to get their attention is where it hurts - right in the pocketbook.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Cardinal Law has, perhaps not so unbelievably, shoved his

>foot into it once again. Right up to his thigh, this time!

 

The logistics of this maneuver would be interesting to see :-)

 

(Example at hand: Cardinal Law also just put out an order putting >the kibosh on efforts by local parish lay associations in his

>archdiocese from forming an association and communicating

>with each other.)

 

I have always thought that this church does not encourage people to think for themselves. They prefer those with a sheep-like mentality who do as they are told without questioning.

 

Your whole post was very reasoned and right on the mark. Sadly, nothing is going to change. Just like any other big business, the only way to get their attention is where it hurts - right in the pocketbook.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest jizzdepapi]

not only the papists!

 

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2001/10/22/tomo/story.gif

 

it's enough to make a girl say, "Pass the matzos!"

[Guest jizzdepapi]

not only the papists!

 

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2001/10/22/tomo/story.gif

 

it's enough to make a girl say, "Pass the matzos!"

[Guest jizzdepapi]

not only the papists!

 

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2001/10/22/tomo/story.gif

 

it's enough to make a girl say, "Pass the matzos!"

[Guest Jordan21]

Terrible. Law ought to be shot.

[Guest Jordan21]

Terrible. Law ought to be shot.

[Guest Jordan21]

Terrible. Law ought to be shot.

[Guest Merlin]

I certainly did not blame the lawyers for the abuse itself, but they are without question responsible for the position which they take in court.

[Guest Merlin]

I certainly did not blame the lawyers for the abuse itself, but they are without question responsible for the position which they take in court.

[Guest Merlin]

I certainly did not blame the lawyers for the abuse itself, but they are without question responsible for the position which they take in court.

[CT Dick]

How about their argument against "One strike and you're out?"

 

The Holy Mother Church needs to leave room for reconciliation.

 

Do they offer that to divorcees? People practicing birth control? Homosexuals?

 

NO [/ font]

 

Yet, the priests, who have denied their victims of a normal sex life forever, are given a second chance.

 

The church has always smelled of hypocracy. Now, the world is getting a whiff.x(

 

Dick

[CT Dick]

How about their argument against "One strike and you're out?"

 

The Holy Mother Church needs to leave room for reconciliation.

 

Do they offer that to divorcees? People practicing birth control? Homosexuals?

 

NO [/ font]

 

Yet, the priests, who have denied their victims of a normal sex life forever, are given a second chance.

 

The church has always smelled of hypocracy. Now, the world is getting a whiff.x(

 

Dick