TMBG, Jizzhead et al, these hustlers are prey, you are predators

[Guest regulation]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>You're the one that brought up the subject of my day job. I

>just told you that I didn't have one and explained why.

>If that bothers you - tough shit.

 

Nothing about you bothers me, though it is true that much of what you say bores me.

 

>"usual message board game"? You mean like Monopoly? I'm

>not telling you how superior my circumstances are, that was

>your slant on it. For all you know my resourses may be just

>enough to barely exist.

 

I don't really care one way or the other.

 

>I really do get a chuckle out of how all you old lesbians

>think the same!

 

To add to my remarks about your attempts at humor, you really need to get some new "fag" jokes. The ones you've been using make it seem as though you've been picking through Larry Kramer's wastebasket.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: The Manchurian Candidate

 

>That was actually a pretty cool show. The character learned

>(or we'd like to think he did) that you can't win an

>argument on the internet.

>

>Around here, we have Regulation to remind us of that. No

>matter how reasoned your argument, he'll keep coming back

>with a slightly twisted version of the logic solely for the

>purpose of keeping the argument going.

 

I really don't think that is his reason. I think he does it because he has convinced himself that "his" take on every subject is superior to what anyone else could possibly have to say and he compulsivly has to broadcast the bible according to "Saint Reg"

>

>He just can't not have the last word. And that's allowed, as

>long as everyone recognizes it as that.

 

I think a lot us do recognize that. What is so great about him is that it is so easy to predict what his next comment will be. You can program him to deliver his slant on things and he doesn't even realise what is happening ;-)

 

If I were to try and profile him (and of course he'd deny this) I'd say he was an ageing (but not quite old - yet) very lonely man who would like to have many more friends than he has, can't quite figure out why he hasn't, and would never comprehend that it is his compulsive personality that prevents this. Oh yah - and he's probably hung like a thimble!

>

>The danger (and this is something I think the TV show showed

>well) is letting people think the loudmouth actually knows

>something.

 

Very well said - but as I told him last night - all old lesbians think his way. Probably decorates his home in brown, beige and orange to tie in with his desert boots.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>In my heart of hearts, I believe that for many if not most clients, this is not a healthy pursuit... we are making our sexual desires a priority that I do not believe is worthy of respect.<

 

Your beliefs are your own and although I respect them, I sincerely hope that they are not shared by very many others. If you believe hiring escorts is unhealthy, then it's easy to see how it's being unworthy of respect would follow (I think). If a person is making his sexual desires his number one priority, then I would agree it's unhealthy. But a discussion of the urgency with which one hires doesn't really apply to the current topic. Since you bring up that aspect of hiring though, I'd have to say that someone whose primary focus in life is to get laid, to the point of excluding all other responsibilities, is a person with little or no self control. It's the lack of control and self discipline that I find unworthy of respect, more so than whatever kind of sex that person is in pursuit of.

 

>Let’s be careful not to associate a lack of a positive feeling like respect to mean that I feel something as negative as shame.<

 

I can't completely disassociate the two as I feel that they are closely linked. People doing things that they think will be frowned upon by "society", things not admirable or unworthy of respect, often do so with an imposed sense of shame. My theory is that it's fear of the shame of losing the respect of peers that keeps people in line. I didn't mean to ascribe the guts of my theory to your lack of positive feeling.

 

>I definitely do not think it is anything to be ashamed of anymore than I think it is anything to be proud of. I’m at a loss for the right neutral term to describe my feeling.<

 

I don't know. When a person is not proud of something, there's usually some kind of guilt at play, which ushers in shame. I'm not sure there is any neutral ground.

 

>Just because something is fun and entertaining certainly doesn’t make it respectable.<

 

Nor does paying for fun and entertainment render it unworthy of respect.

 

>I think it would be great fun to quit my job, sleep late every day and fart around on this message board. That would hardly be something worthy of respect.<

 

Because you'd be a lazy no count, which is something other than a client or escort.

 

>I also don’t think you can just get past the morality issue – they are too inter-related.<

 

I stand as living proof that at least I can get past the morality issue. Thousands of escorts and clients the world over have done so as well.

 

>don’t go from “not respectable” all the way to “wrong.”

 

I didn't go that route willingly. Society (and too many viewpoints such as the one you espouse) have conspired to make me think that way.

 

>I’m secure and confident enough to understand where my strengths and weaknesses lie.<

 

Do you see your desire to hire escorts as a weakness?

 

>I also understand and accept certain facts of life without it affecting my self-worth.<

 

Should I then accept the fact of life that society finds sex for money unworthy of respect, and since we humans are so dependant upon the respect of others, get out of the business yet still attempt to keep my self-worth intact?

 

>Pretending that something is not true just because it doesn’t feel good is not an indication of high self-esteem – it’s a sign of a weak mind.<

 

That weakness seems to be defined by how you feel others view your position in the pecking order or whether or not you pay for sex. Weakness is accepting one's lot in life, regardless of how much self esteem one accepts it with. Weakness is thinking you don't belong with beauty. Once again, "you" is rhetorical.

 

>That’s probably effective and important since you have basically chosen to thumb your nose at society.<

 

Not thumb. Pick and wipe. And really, your assessment is not entirely accurate. I'll adhere to any of societies mores that make sense to me. They don't all make sense.

 

>Your line of work also allows you the luxury of creating your own microcosm.<

 

Every person on earth can do it, regardless of their career. As for my line of work, you're only aware of one of the things I do. As a freelancer in the publishing industry for almost fifteen years, I've been residing in the same microcosm that houses my escorting, my writing, my photography, my painting, my website designing, all of which provide income - making me a functioning member of the very same society you live in. My friendships, my liesure activities, and most importantly, my values, are also contained within my microcosm. Because I have forged the freedom to live as I please, is my lifestyle less worthy than those who bow to what society finds respectable?

 

>I, on the other hand, merely wink at society so I need to incorporate it more. We’ve talked enough in the past that I’m sure you know I’m not trying to say you are undeserving of respect.<

 

Oh, I know that, phage. I also completely understand your position. I think my talking with you is really more about helping myself understand my own position. Hope you don't mind being "used" this way. And although you may not be trying to say I am undeserving of respect, by labelling a clients' hiring of escorts as unworthy of respect, you have in fact cast aspersions on the profession itself. If hiring is unworthy, what does that make the ones being hired?

 

>>Respect doesn't always have to be received like a gift. Nor is it determied by profession alone. It can be created, commanded.<<

 

>Only in one’s own mind.<

 

In my last post I told you of the respect my circle of acquaintances held for me, and now you tell me that that respect exists only in my mind. That could be construed as a hurtful remark, but I don't really think you meant it that way. If you did mean to inflict pain, the fabric of my microcosm still tells me not to take it that way. It's a defense mechanism. It keeps me from wondering if the people in my life really do respect me. Of course they do, regardless of what some disembodied voice on a chat forum would have me believe. And if I thought that voice truly represented society at large, I would still employ the same defense, or truth, that I am respectable.

 

>I’m ex-military and believe the philosophy that rank is given but respect must be earned.<

 

Knowing that you're ex-military certainly helps me understand how you may have arrived at your current standpoint. I could never exist in that kind of environment (in the army, I mean), illustrating how very different we are. Still, we almost agree on a number of points. We'd probably agree on more if I could just manage to express myself a bit more coherently. For instance, when I said respect could created, I meant earned.

[Guest regulation]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>>In my heart of hearts, I believe that for many if not most clients, this is not a healthy pursuit... we are making our sexual desires a priority that I do not believe is worthy of respect.<

>

>Your beliefs are your own and although I respect them, I

>sincerely hope that they are not shared by very many others.

 

They are shared by me. Neither I nor anyone else has empirical data to back up an opinion about why most people hire escorts. But from reading the reviews and posts on this site I get the impression that many who do so are purchasing a counterfeit of intimacy instead of dealing with some problem that is preventing them from achieving genuine intimacy. To avoid dealing with one's problems is never healthy.

 

 

>>I also don’t think you can just get past the morality issue – they are too inter-related.<

>

>I stand as living proof that at least I can get past

>the morality issue. Thousands of escorts and clients the

>world over have done so as well.

 

I'm not at all sure that's true, even in your case. I tend to agree with Albinorat that the posts of many escorts and clients on this site suggest an undercurrent of guilt about what they are doing. I've seen one or two of yours that I would put in this category.

 

>>Pretending that something is not true just because it doesn’t feel good is not an indication of high self-esteem – it’s a sign of a weak mind.<

>

>That weakness seems to be defined by how you feel others

>view your position in the pecking order or whether or not

>you pay for sex.

 

I don't think that's what phage is saying at all. I think he's saying that refusing to acknowledge one's own problems is weakness. That idea is not exactly unheard of. In fact, it's part of every twelve-step program.

 

>Not thumb. Pick and wipe. And really, your assessment is not

>entirely accurate. I'll adhere to any of societies mores

>that make sense to me. They don't all make sense.

 

That's great. But I don't think you'd be happy if everyone else in your community took the same position. Suppose a police officer whose religion condemns homosexuality refuses to investigate a hate crime against a gay couple because of his religious scruples? He'd only be doing the same thing you're doing -- refusing to comply with rules that don't conform to his personal values.

 

>Because I have forged the

>freedom to live as I please, is my lifestyle less worthy

>than those who bow to what society finds respectable?

 

It's less worthy because you really don't want everyone else to live the same way you do. No community can exist if every member feels free to ignore any rules of the community that he doesn't like. Your lifestyle will remain possible only so long as the community continues to exist.

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>Neither I nor anyone else has empirical data to back up an opinion about why most people hire escorts.<

 

It's naive to think that we don't know why most people hire escorts.

I don't need no steenking data.

 

>But from reading the reviews and posts on this site I get the impression that many who do so are purchasing a counterfeit of intimacy instead of dealing with some problem that is preventing them from achieving genuine intimacy.<

 

As you've said, that's only your impression. And if you've ever been with an escort, you'll know that it can get quite intimate and very real. To claim the contrary, one does so out of ignorance of the experience.

 

>To avoid dealing with one's problems is never healthy.<

 

Only if one actually has a problem, as opposed to a facet of their lives that is perceived by others (tightly wound killjoys) to be a problem. This is the point where the twelve-steppers start going on about denial.

 

>I tend to agree with Albinorat that the posts of many escorts and clients on this site suggest an undercurrent of guilt about what they are doing. I've seen one or two of yours that I would put in this category.<

 

You may be right. I'm susceptible to the same societal conditioning as everyone else here who thinks that hiring escorts is a bad thing. But just because you may think you see morality's mutt, in the form of Pavlov's dog nipping at my heels, it doesn't mean I can't outrun him every time.

 

>>>Pretending that something is not true just because it doesn’t feel good is not an indication of high self-esteem – it’s a sign of a weak mind.<<<

 

>>That weakness seems to be defined by how you feel others view your position in the pecking order or whether or not you pay for sex.<<

 

>I don't think that's what phage is saying at all.<

 

I didn't say it was. Mine was a lateral observation.

 

>I think he's saying that refusing to acknowledge one's own problems is weakness.<

 

And that's true. But letting someone else tell you that a certain behavioural aspect of your life is a problem is even weaker, especially when you personally have no problem with it and no one's getting hurt and it's what you really want in terms of human happiness, and you've got a willing and eager partner.

 

>I'll adhere to any of societies mores that make sense to me. They don't all make sense.<

 

>That's great.<

 

Thanks.

 

>But I don't think you'd be happy if everyone else in your community took the same position.<

 

How do you know they haven't already? Just becuase a community hasn't burst into flames doesn't mean it's residents aren't as bohemian as they want to be. They just do it responsibly.

 

>Suppose a police officer whose religion condemns homosexuality refuses to investigate a hate crime against a gay couple because of his religious scruples? He'd only be doing the same thing you're doing -- refusing to comply with rules that don't conform to his personal values.<

 

If he was truly going to behave like me, he never would have become a cop. I said elsewhere in this thread that I'd never make it in the army. I'd find myself unable to conform to the discipline and would soon be drummed out. I know that my own personal morality would disallow my becoming a good soldier. By the same token, I know I'd make a lousy cop.

 

>>is my lifestyle less worthy than those who bow to what society finds respectable?<<

 

>It's less worthy...<

 

Up yours.

 

>No community can exist if every member feels free to ignore any rules of the community that he doesn't like.<

 

I'm talking about altering moral attitudes through behaviour. You're talking about breaking the law - two different things. You're barking up the wrong tree, but please give my regards to Pavlov.

[Guest Ant415]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

Guy,

 

I have to disagree with you in part. I am a client folk, and don't consider myself a troll either. I don't take offense at some comments made by escorts, as I don't identify with some extreme stereptypes they may be speaking of.

 

I would rather escorts speak honestly and unabridged. Sure, some of it may not be pretty, but at least we know the reality. Perhaps some things to learn. This board is supposed to be about honest dialogue.

 

If I wanted to hear pleasantries and affirming answers to my questions, I would ask an escort such question when I hired him. Then he will say what he thinks I want to hear... duh.

[Guest Ant415]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

Good points Flower, but how is it determined if there is equal power or decision making ability in some client/escort relationship? You cannot, just as you cannot say every 19 year old is too young and too niaive to enter into such deals.

 

We don't even know enough about Ritchie's encounter to fully determine that the kid was not in a position to make a thoughtful decision. He could have been a college grad, 23 yo, living with his family, out for a bizarre fantasy of getting paid for sex, and acted this role out credibly.

[Guest Ant415]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

I don't think GW worked a big part of his life to get to the White House.

 

Also, don't think he always wanted to be there. His father wanted him to take over the company...ooops... I meant country.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

>I don't think GW worked a big part of his life to get to the

>White House.

>

>Also, don't think he always wanted to be there. His father

>wanted him to take over the company...ooops... I meant

>country.

 

For someone who didn't want to be there he sure worked overtime to get the Florida ballot count to come out in his favour - not the mention blowing the entire Supreme Court to vote in his favour ;-)

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest regulation]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>It's naive to think that we don't know why most people hire

>escorts.

>I don't need no steenking data.

 

Yes you do. You may have a theory, but you have nothing to support it but your own experience, which is hardly comprehensive. You are only one out of thousands and thousands of people involved in this.

 

>As you've said, that's only your impression. And if you've

>ever been with an escort, you'll know that it can get quite

>intimate and very real. To claim the contrary, one does so

>out of ignorance of the experience.

 

No. Both my own experiences and those reported here support my opinion that what is offered is no more than a counterfeit of true intimacy. I've already said that there is no other data to substantiate my opinion. By the same token, you have no data to refute it.

 

>To avoid dealing with one's problems is never healthy.<

>

>Only if one actually has a problem, as opposed to a facet of

>their lives that is perceived by others (tightly wound

>killjoys) to be a problem. This is the point where the

>twelve-steppers start going on about denial.

 

I feel pretty confident in saying that most mental health professionals would consider the inability to find intimacy outside a meretricious relationship to be a serious problem. Saying that they are "killjoys" is just a way of sidestepping the issue, and it's a rather tired and stale way at that.

 

>>I think he's saying that refusing to acknowledge one's own problems is weakness.<

>

>And that's true. But letting someone else tell you that a

>certain behavioural aspect of your life is a problem is even

>weaker, especially when you personally have no problem with

>it and no one's getting hurt and it's what you really want

>in terms of human happiness, and you've got a willing and

>eager partner.

 

I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that there are a lot of people who can truthfully say that experiencing intimacy only with hookers is what they "really want in terms of human happiness."

 

>>But I don't think you'd be happy if everyone else in your community took the same position.<

>

>How do you know they haven't already? Just becuase a

>community hasn't burst into flames doesn't mean it's

>residents aren't as bohemian as they want to be. They just

>do it responsibly.

 

I know they haven't already because I can see it with my own eyes. The fact that we have long had some integrated schools in this country, for example, shows that not every parent who had some qualms about integration decided to defy the decision that we as a society made by moving out of range of the integration orders. Some did, but many others acceded to it. There certainly were many who, though they were not happy about the decision, did not feel, as you do, that their unhappiness with it gave them a license to defy it.

 

>>Suppose a police officer whose religion condemns homosexuality refuses to investigate a hate crime against a gay couple because of his religious scruples? He'd only be doing the same thing you're doing -- refusing to comply with rules that don't conform to his personal values.<

>

>If he was truly going to behave like me, he never would have

>become a cop.

 

Nonsense. It's absurd to suggest that the way an officer does his job is not informed by his personal beliefs and attitudes. Several officers knew what was happening to Abner Louima as it was happening. Did any of them stop it? They became cops, and yet they behaved in the way you just said they would not. They are like you -- they felt they didn't need to obey rules they didn't approve of.

 

The same is true in the military. After the "Don't ask, don't tell" regime was instituted an increase, not a decrease, in harassment and discharge of gay personnel was reported. That is the gist of the last report on the issue released by Secretary Cohen. Obviously there are many in the military who feel the way you do -- if they don't agree with a rule, they don't need to obey it.

 

>I'm talking about altering moral attitudes through

>behaviour. You're talking about breaking the law - two

>different things. You're barking up the wrong tree, but

>please give my regards to Pavlov.

 

Childish insults won't change the facts. You are breaking the law. You've decided you have the right to do so because you don't agree with the law. If everyone felt as you do, you would, as I once told you, be torn to pieces by gay bashers while the police did nothing. We must all be thankful that your attitude is not a common one.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Unscientific Surveys

 

>Spoken like a well paid, high priced hooker.

 

Clearly, this remark misses the point. It also clearly misses some of the points I have made on this and on other threads. The issue is not economic, but power. The issue is not youth versus age, but control.

 

In addition, the point being so very clearly made was for one to remark upon the good fortune to be able to use someone, at any age, at any price point, in a clearly inbalanced manner, where one was clearly the dominant person in the particular relationship, and then to brag about it shows a clear and pronounced disregard for the individual being abused and quite frankly calls into account the commentators viewpoint towards human beings generally.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Further Proof, As IF Any Was Needed ....

 

>>Have you and Regulation ever considered getting married (to

>>each other)? To bad polygamy has been outlawed. You could

>>both link up with Rod Hagan and have your little daisy chain

>>tell hell freezes over.

>>

>

> Well, if Regulation's post are worthy of your contempt,

>perhaps I should "parse" them more carefully in the future.

> Is he married? Because I am certainly not.

>

 

.... that a gold tiara and an ill-fitting dress are not assurance of ones infallability.

 

The Twink Ho has already come twice and says I am wearing him out but I cannot simply log off without commenting on the fact that it is interesting to note that on certain occassions certain posters find it worthy to praise others on this board and yet on other occassion they find it necessary to tear them down. Quite noteworthy indeed.

 

I must also correct myself and state that upon an inspection as careful and close as I can possible dare, I must state for the record that Mr. Regulation's posts have no more merit and certainly far less interest that those of any number of people. Poor technique, the inability to express coherent thought, a lack of philosophical underpinning, and a certain dogmatic style lend themselves to, well, tedium to say the least.

 

Kitty is looking askance at both me and the Twink Ho and it is time for the three of us to snuggle and bid you all adieu.

 

:-)

[Guest regulation]

RE: Further Proof, As IF Any Was Needed ....

 

>I must also correct myself and state that upon an inspection

>as careful and close as I can possible dare, I must state

>for the record that Mr. Regulation's posts have no more

>merit and certainly far less interest that those of any

>number of people. Poor technique, the inability to express

>coherent thought, a lack of philosophical underpinning, and

>a certain dogmatic style lend themselves to, well, tedium to

>say the least.

 

Two things. First, you just got through mocking Thunderbuns for a typo in one of his posts. But I see one or two in your post above. When you have mastered English, then it will be appropriate for you to correct others.

 

You seem upset about the fact that in a recent thread in the "Ask An Escort" section I pointed out several statements you've made on this board that are completely untrue. Instead of behaving in a mature manner and taking issue with something specific that I've said, you hurl a bunch of shrill insults. This board could really use another escort or two like Rod, someone who has a modicum of self-control and maturity. Guess I'll just have to keep looking.

[marc anthony]

RE: Further Proof, As IF Any Was Needed ....

 

>

>Two things. First, you just got through mocking Thunderbuns

>for a typo in one of his posts. But I see one or two in

>your post above. When you have mastered English, then it

>will be appropriate for you to correct others.

>

>You seem upset about the fact that in a recent thread in the

>"Ask An Escort" section I pointed out several statements

>you've made on this board that are completely untrue.

>Instead of behaving in a mature manner and taking issue with

>something specific that I've said, you hurl a bunch of

>shrill insults. This board could really use another escort

>or two like Rod, someone who has a modicum of self-control

>and maturity. Guess I'll just have to keep looking.

 

Or you could look for another board, reg. One where the people are not gathering to discuss the selling of or hiring for sex. And don't worry, we'll manage without you. Someone else will step to the plate and make sure that escorts are insulted, people who disagree with him are called liars, and anyone who responds with appropriate outrage to his arrogant judgements are accused of name-calling to escape the issues. We all need that in our lives, you know.

 

And by the way, I am sure by remarks you have posted in other threads, that before you actually hire any prostitute (and contribute to the problem that you have so persistently preached upon) that you verify their tax returns and educational diplomas to make sure they are not "desperate" for your money. But how do you verify their mastery of the English language? Is it a standardized test that you administer, or do you request an essay?

[Guest regulation]

RE: Further Proof, As IF Any Was Needed ....

 

>Or you could look for another board, reg. One where the

>people are not gathering to discuss the selling of or hiring

>for sex. And don't worry, we'll manage without you.

>Someone else will step to the plate and make sure that

>escorts are insulted, people who disagree with him are

>called liars, and anyone who responds with appropriate

>outrage to his arrogant judgements are accused of

>name-calling to escape the issues. We all need that in our

>lives, you know.

 

 

You are not going to have to manage without me, because I am not going anywhere. Indeed, if there is anyone who should leave this message board it is you, who have repeatedly expressed disdain for the message center rules that you supposedly agreed to follow when you joined. If you don't like the rules here, why don't YOU find another board?

 

As for "escaping the issues," it is outrageous for you to accuse someone else of doing exactly what you have done time and time again. You refuse, again and again, to enter into a serious discussion of the issue these threads are supposed to be about; instead you merely lash out with childish rancor against the "arrogant judgments" of those who have the colossal nerve to take a different position than your position.

 

>And by the way, I am sure by remarks you have posted in

>other threads, that before you actually hire any prostitute

>(and contribute to the problem that you have so persistently

>preached upon) that you verify their tax returns and

>educational diplomas to make sure they are not "desperate"

>for your money. But how do you verify their mastery of the

>English language? Is it a standardized test that you

>administer, or do you request an essay?

 

I think everyone can see from the pointless and abusive sarcasm of the above paragraph that you have never had any intention or desire to discuss this issue like an adult. If hearing opinions that differ from yours upsets you so much that you must lash out like this, why do you visit a message board at all? Just talk to yourself, and you will never need to worry about encountering anyone who disagrees with you.

 

 

 

>

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Further Proof, As IF Any Was Needed ....

 

>And by the way, I am sure by remarks you have posted in

>other threads, that before you actually hire any prostitute

>(and contribute to the problem that you have so persistently

>preached upon) that you verify their tax returns and

>educational diplomas to make sure they are not "desperate"

>for your money. But how do you verify their mastery of the

>English language?

 

Yah - that would be more difficult to do as it's hard to actually hear what a ho is saying when his mouth is full of dick.

 

>Is it a standardized test that you administer, or do you request an >essay?

 

Probably a hand written essay that he will then mark, grade and return, asking for corrections before he forks over his $$$. I hear he deducts 2 bucks for every spelling error and 5 for every grammatical error. Wonder how much a dangling participle costs the poor kid - Not that he's exploiting him, understand.

>

 

Thunderbuns

[HooBoy]

This Thread Is Too Long - Lets Move On.

 

My advisory council has recommended we lock this sucker down.

 

Enough already.

[Guest devon_by_proxy]

: TMBG, Jizzhead et al, these hustlers are...

 

Hey guys, it's Devon. If you're reading this it's because Jeff (duke37) kindly agreed to create a "proxy" login for me and post it for me. Thanks, Jeff!

 

For the last week and a half or so I haven't been able to post, due, I'm speculating, to a conflict between the message center software and the Internet security/anti-virus software I installed on my computer. If anybody has any experience or insights into this could they email me at [email protected]? HooBoy was also stumped and I haven't heard back from Daddy.

 

Anyway, I've looked in on this debate, spread out among several threads, re street hustlers and here's my two cents. Rod raises important points about the harsh reality many young hustlers face, well summarized by regulation as follows: "whatever harm is done by prostitution, the likelihood of harm is greater when the prostitutes in question are younger, less experienced and have fewer resources. That likelihood should be easily apparent to anyone who picks up a street kid." It does not follow, of course, that all encounters with street kids result in increasing, rather than alleviating, their suffering. It is the choices one makes in one's interactions that make the difference.

 

One should also be careful not to take the above quoted observation overboard into an infantilization of young adults, whom we should respect enough to give credit for being capable of making their own decisions, to the extent that they are not clearly incapacitated to do so. I am thinking here more of young escorts, for it could certainly be said that life on the streets is, itself, a type of incapacitation (though it's a matter of degrees, and probably varies from case to case, and not all people who work the streets live on them).

 

I am trying to think through the implications of Rod's call for clients on this board, effectively, to boycott young street hustlers. I don't think we have enough information to know that Ritchie exploited the young man whose story prompted this debate. Some of his statements (to the effect that "I don't pay to listen to these kids' problems" and "I hope that kid's still out there working the streets") have seemed to me to indicate a mind not terribly taxed by concerns about exploitation, and that does disturb me, but by giving $80 to a kid who was selling himself for $40, Ritchie's behavior, at least on that particular occasion, crossed a certain decency threshold in my mind. At the very least, that meant one less time this kid was going to need to sell himself that week.

 

I?m guessing that Ritchie's decision was in some way informed by his coming from an escort-hiring culture, the norms of which had conditioned him to sense that $40 is just way too fucking little to pay someone for sex. One can quibble over whether he should have given more, but he did double the kid?s fee, and in so doing accomplished at least one thing and hopefully two. He definitely gave this kid enough money to pay for a $55 hotel room and eat for the day, which has to count for something, and hopefully he sent this kid the subtle message that he can get more than he's charging.

 

If this is true, then it seems to me that someone concerned about the welfare of young hustlers should hope that more, not fewer, clients from the escort-hiring world cross over from time to time and pick up a street hustler. If enough did, perhaps it could create a "tipping point" in certain areas whereby hustlers aren?t having to sell themselves as many times a week as possible to get by. If, on the other hand, the Ritchies and jizzdepapis of the world heed Rod's call to conscience, then the hustler-hiring world will be populated EXCLUSIVELY by people who think $40 is plenty and who carry the attendant contempt-filled attitudes which add so much pain to these encounters. Maybe $40 will start seeming like too much. I am not suggesting that abstaining from hiring hustlers isn?t the right choice for some. I?d just rather appeal to people who do hire hustlers to treat them respectfully, kindly, and more generously than the hustlers themselves have probably been conditioned to expect. Let's condition them to expect better for themselves. Ritchie, that night, took a step in that direction.

 

By the way, props to albinorat for mentioning women in one of the threads. Those interested in reading a retired female sex worker?s take on the conditions women prostitutes face, click on the following link:

 

http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=javina&itemid=57536

 

One more thing. Not being his type, I?ve never met marc anthony, but I have met one of his escorts, an intelligent, well-possessed young man who seemed perfectly together and capable of making his own choices in life. The idea of that man as a "victim" strikes me as laugh-out-loud funny.

 

xoxo, Devon

 

http://www.devonsf.com

 

http://slimnmuscly.livejournal.com Devon's diary ? updated daily

 

 

duke37 here. And if you think this was a neat trick you ought to see the part where he shoves his finger in my ass and we do a ventriloquism act. LOL. Jeff