Walmart - Fan or Foe?

[david]

I will not cross their door on principle.

 

The way they treat their employees is beyond disgusting.

 

Three of the Walton heirs are rated as the 15th, 16th and 17th richest people in America with each one being worth about 15 billion. One of them - not sure which one - recently bought a painting at auction for 35 million $$. And all this was obtained by screwing the "little people"

 

Many of their employees earn so little that they qualify for food stamps and the company encourages them to apply for same.

 

I knew someone who worked there and she told me that after a person has been employed there for a certain length of time, they become entitled to some company paid benefits. The rub is that they don't come automatically and their personnel dept doesn't advise you of you eligibility. If you are savvy enough to know that they exist and don't apply for them you get none.

 

They would go bankrupt if they were waiting for 5 cents from me. Unfortunately, they're not.

 

 

 

I'm surprised Canada would allow the tacky operation in the Country.

[Guest Wetnwildbear]

Anti-Gay - ANti-Union - Anti Quality!

 

To answer a previous Poster - I have a neice who worked at Shit-MART when she started

 

college. Yes they treated her like shit - told her she had to "punch out" and work off the

 

clock so she wouldn't go from part to fulltime, not paid for breaks, etc. In the last year

 

alone ShitMart lost a class action suit for similar practices and was busted for hiring

 

undocument illegal workers whom they locked into stores overnight as cleaning crews.

 

 

Niece left after a few month and went to work for UPS - almost double the cash to start

 

and after 6 months they started kickin towards her college courses.

 

 

Shit-Mart also came to the OUT & EQUAL Workplace Summit - for those unfamilair

 

O&E is a national GLBT organization which focuses on workplace issues.

 

 

They gave presentations trying to convince everyone that Shit-Mart was indeed GLBT

 

Friendly! Look they spent money to send us homos and lesbos to this here convention.

 

Upon closer examination - The only GLBT group was at their HQ in Benton, AK - Not in

 

any of their stores - They still to this day Do Not have an Anti-Discrimination Policy,

 

and never returned to the Out & Equal Conference - Nor adopted any of its workplace

 

practices or training.

 

 

IMHO - they were testing the waters to see if they could get off of the HRC Shit list if

 

they threw a few dollars at a GLBT Conference.

 

 

In addition, they are so virulently anti-union that they have closed several stores in the

 

US and at least one in Canada that were trying to unionize.

 

 

The quality of their products is sadly lacking. Their local stores are dirty,

 

and staffed by understandably unhappy people and their clientele is not what I would

 

describe as delightful company.

 

 

And finally, about 6 years ago I was on my way to the local Shit-Mart - taking an older

 

neighbor who had requested a ride and who needed some assistance - the local

 

radio station reported a shooting (murder) in progress between two patrons, fighting over

 

the last of a sale item - NO RAINCHECKS ON SPECIALS The Bargains are always marked in

 

tiny print (quantities limited) . The car headed right to the happy Target Store.

 

 

I also fondly recall this past holiday season when several customers were trampled - an

 

employee trampled to death ,by the delightful crowds at a Long Island NY Shit-Mart on the

 

morning after Thanksgiving - aptly named in this instance "Black Friday"

 

 

Overall, I'd rather have Root Canal work sans anesthesia ,while hung-over from a Tequila

 

Buffet than shop at Shit-Mart.

[+ ArVaGuy]

I cannot help but laugh out loud at much of this anti Walmart propaganda these days. The cliché certainly rings true – the more things change the more they remain the same. Nearly every argument used against Walmart today is exactly the same as those used by the Anti Chain Store movement during the 1910’s to 1930’s. During that time Sears Roebuck & Co.; Woolworth’s, JC Penney, the Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company (A&P), and Montgomery Ward ALL were tarred with the very same brush that Walmart receives today.

 

The arguments then were that these chains destroyed the local mom-and-pop stores driving them out of business. The chains sucked the life out of the local economy by transferring money to big corporate cities back east. They had stockholders not owners. These horrible companies engaged in unfair labor practices treating their employees horribly and paid low wages. Some companies tried to prevent their workers from forming unions. The A&P Company was accused of importing goods from overseas! Bars of soap were said not to be the same size as those sold by local stores even though the packaging was identical.

 

Hundred’s of communities passed laws preventing these greedy companies like Sears, Penney’s, Ward’s and Piggly Wiggly from expanding in their areas. State legislatures were inundated with requests to stop the spread of the evil chain stores. Laws were passed to prevent the sale of food and dry goods in the same establishment. Limits were placed on number of stores a company could own in a given market. Fortunately, over time and with a lot of litigation these asinine laws were overturned. Either in courts or by the legislatures themselves once they came to their senses.

 

So did Sears destroy the local mom-and-pop stores of the 1910’s and 1920’s? Did A&P drive out the local grocer selling Eight O’clock Coffee? Was Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer just an evil marketing ploy of Montgomery Ward’s to steal business from local merchants? Or did many of these small local grocers and merchants just simply fail to adapt?

 

I cannot buy into the Evil Walmart theory for several reasons. Much of the criticisms ring hollow, they’ve been used over and over for nearly a century. The combined efforts of Sears, Penny’s, Ward’s, Woolworth’s, Safeway, and many others have not driven out the local mom-and-pop business. So what makes it so believable that a former mom-and-pop store founded by Sam Walton in 1962 will actually succeed where other similar chains have failed? (Note that two of the companies in my list have gone bankrupt and no longer exist.)

 

Furthermore, I happen to know several people who work for Walmart. A good friend of mine started with the company more than a decade ago. He’s gay, and loves working for the company. He started out as a stock clerk and is now a divisional manager. Walmart has provided him with training and flexibility while pursuing his business degree. Further, when his mother contracted lung cancer he tells me he could not have asked for better treatment from an employer. Having worked retail I can well remember the small local company I worked for while in college and the low wage, no benefits, and bs I had to suffer. Such is the nature of retail.

 

Finally, much of this anti Walmart hysteria has been driven by the labor unions. If Walmart were to be unionized the company’s workers would generate over $400 million in union dues. Nearly half a billion dollars in worker dues can fund a lot of lavish perks for union leaders. The anti Walmart efforts can be traced to SEIU and UFCW. Employee Free Choice my arse! There’s an agenda here and it has less to do with the alleged evils of Walmart than with greed and avarice in union headquarters.

 

Go ahead and condemn Walmart all you want. History being the guide it won’t make much difference. We’ve been down this road before and will travel it again.

 

Walmart. Save money. Live better.

[Guest Wetnwildbear]

"If Walmart were to be unionized the company’s workers would generate over $400 million in union dues. Nearly half a billion dollars in worker dues can fund a lot of lavish perks for union leaders. The anti Walmart efforts can be traced to SEIU and UFCW. Employee Free Choice my arse! There’s an agenda here and it has less to do with the alleged evils of Walmart than with greed and avarice in union headquarters."

 

 

If Wal-Mart were unionized - hourly employees would be paid a decent wage and have the opportunity to acquire health insurance. Those greedy union bastards!

 

 

 

"Go ahead and condemn Walmart all you want. History being the guide it won’t make much difference. We’ve been down this road before and will travel it again.

 

Save money. Live better."

 

 

Unless of course you are a Shit-Mart employee - Live at or below the poverty line - Pray for Medicaid! BTW Shit-Mart made 3.79 BILLION the last quarter of 2008 -

 

That is after Lawsuits - 63 of them for cheating employees out of pay - See below

 

 

Excerpts From The New York Post 2/19/09

 

Wal-Mart's quarterly profit fell 7 percent despite a modest sales gain as the company settled a string of class-action lawsuits from employees.

 

The world's largest retailer - which said in December the legal settlements could cost it as much as $640 million - also saw declining sales in its international division as foreign currencies and overseas shopping weakened. . .

 

The company is settling 63 different federal and state lawsuits that allege Wal-Mart cheated workers out of breaks and forced them to work off the clock.

 

Wal-Mart trimmed its capital budget for the year, but said it is "appropriate" to start buying back shares after it stopped buybacks during the fourth quarter.

 

For the quarter ended Jan. 31, Wal-Mart's profit fell to $3.79 billion, or 96 cents a share, from $4.1 billion, or $1.02 a share, a year earlier.

 

The company's shares yesterday rose $1.71, or 3.7 percent, to $48.24.

 

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02182009/business/legal_woes_slow_wal_mart_profits_155667.htm[/url]

 

Yeah - Those Damn Greedy Unions!

[Guest]

gotta wonder if you KNOW employees are treated poorly or you just HEARD it.....

 

Wow! Well, I'm a physician for mostly indigent people, and I treat a number of Wal-Mart employees. In addition to not giving even giving their employees any health care coverage, I've had an employee in tears due to having to stand for hours from arthritis knee pain. I wrote a note advising WalMart they needed to provide her a stool while she was cashiering. Although this would seem to be a very minor accommodation, according to my patient they refused because this would "set an example for other employees." It just seems like cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Even when my patients ask me to fax their Rx to WalMart, I ask them to consider any other pharmacy in town. I have never seen such an unethical employer (let alone a large company). Much of their behavior isn't just unethical, it's downright illegal (not accommodating an employee's health problem is just one example, but refusing breaks is another). I'm not quite sure how they get away with it. Maybe they hire ex-cons who have no other choice?

Anyone who shops there and isn't desperate for cash should be ashamed of himself. Would you shop at a Nazi thrift shop just because it was cheaper? There are plenty of retailers which are close enough in price.

[seaboy4hire]

I am a foe of Wal Mart. I've been in a couple of their stores (didn't buy anything) one here in Wa and another in the burbs of Chicago. Both stores were absolutely filthy! That in itself was reason enough not to shop there. But the main reason of why I wont shop there is the way they pay their employees. First I am a damn proud member of UFCW and while not all locals are perfect I am G-d damn proud of my local. I had the pleasure of sitting across from the grocer employers a couple years back for about 6 months of contract talks. Some of you might remember me posting about this back then. Wal Mart has made it OK to where employers feel that they can pay below living wages, offer subpar to no health care at all and basically treat the employees like shit. During contract talks the employers tried to use the Wal Mart defense saying that Wal Mart was a bigger player in the areas that contracts where up. They are wrong market share wise Wal Mart is a bit player here. Then the employers tried to use the wage thing saying that they felt that even minimum wage was too much for a courtesy clerk and that since Wal Mart had lower wages so should the union grocery stores. If it weren't for the unions those of us who stock the stores, keep them clean, bag your groceries, help you out to the car, ring your orders up, help you at the deli and meat counters would be paid Wal Mart wages or if the law allowed, much less then that. So when my local asks me to help out with the fight against the unfair business practices of Wal Mart I am happy to do so. With the help of my union I have super great health care, my employer can't treat me like shit without repercussions, I get paid above the poverty line and I get a true say during contract talks. Union or non union? I'll take union thanks.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Yeah - Those Damn Greedy Unions!

 

I've seen enough union prosecutions from the inside, representing the unions no less, to know that the leadership of these organizations are just as corrupt as any Wall Street banker or Walmart executive. I'll leave it at that.

[Guest timgetrum]

Drilling Down to Look at Wal-Mart Components

 

I am trying to think about the different elements of Wal-Mart, what they do poorly and what they do best.

 

pricing - I think Wal-Mart is where you want to go if you have a list of 20 things to buy, do not want to price shop and want the lowest total.

 

quality - do not go to Wal-Mart for the highest quality

 

value - Wal-Mart does well here, the bang-for-the-buck issue

 

innovations in developing less expensive, more responsive supply lines - Sam Walton crushed the then much bigger, arrogant K-Mart, with his willingness to innovate

 

return policy - Wal-Mart's deal with their suppliers is that if a customer is dissatisfied with a product, Wal-Mart takes it back without resistence. the burden falls on the supplier, so suppliers have incentive for high enough quality to avoid too many returns.

 

employee compensation - I'm sure that Wal-Mart would say that they set wages high enough to keep their positions filled. Seems to me for an unemployeed person, who cannot get a job at Target, a job at Wal-Mart might give them some experience, maybe even in experience in how not to do things, until that Target job opens up.

 

health insurance - The employer funded healthcare insurance system is not a good model, and I think that will change. For an unemployed person the Wal-Mart health insurance may be better than nothing, while learning and looking to an opportunity at another company.

 

treatment of gays - I don't have any facts, but if it has not been good, would expect treatment to improve if subpar. There is no money in bad treatment of gays.

 

Always the Wal-Mart were I live is packed. K-Mart languished and left. Target is doing well, but does not have the Wal-Mart crowds.

 

Is there a better place than Wal-Mart to go when you want to feel thinner, better looking, smarter and wealthier? I think this important aspect of a Wal-Mart visit has been overlooked by some here!

 

I'm sure I've missed other negative and positive elements of Wal-Mart.

 

The sentiment here on the board seems very anti-Wal-Mart, but for years the folks have definitely been voting with their feet.

[seaboy4hire]

Yeah - Those Damn Greedy Unions!

 

I've seen enough union prosecutions from the inside, representing the unions no less, to know that the leadership of these organizations are just as corrupt as any Wall Street banker or Walmart executive. I'll leave it at that.

 

I wont dispute there are some bad locals. I have yet to hear any major gripe about mine but I have read some where I have to agree that some particular locals are not in good standing with the members. But I think that it is unfair to group all locals together as being bad. That would be like someone saying all escorts are scam artists, theifs or whatever else.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ g56whiz]

At the most basic level, there’s something profoundly evil in a company whose business model deems it OK to steal money out of the pockets of people whether or not they are its customers. And that is precisely what occurs when you and I have to pay added taxes to support welfare payments to Wal-Mart employees or find that our heath care costs are inflated for the same reason. The prices at Wal-Mart are so low because they fall short of the real responsible cost of doing business. Wal-Mart is not the only guilty party here. There’s been a general failure of civic leaders to fully understand the Wal-Mart business model. They’ve been blinded by the quick buck of some addition tax revenue and failed to see the longer term consequences of the economic dislocation Wal-Mart creates in most of its installations. I’m not a Luddite that feels that every mom and pop retailer deserves a forever franchise for its business, but I think an enterprise that has only one dimension to its business model – reduce prices at all costs – fails to comprehend that it has more than its customers as stakeholders in its enterprise and that its continued well being is dependent on meeting the needs of all its stakeholders.

[+ g56whiz]

The current Consumer Reports (May 09) has the results of an on-line survey amongst its readers about their satisfaction with the various big retailers. Wal-mart tied for last (with Kmart) among the nine in the survey with a score of 68% satisfaction. The winner was Costco with an 85% rating. Interestingly, Wal-Mart's big box operation, Sam's Club, tied with Sears for the fourth spot, each with a 76% score. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. . . . .

[Guest zipperzone]

Alan, how much of a presence does Walmart have in Canada?

 

Obviously not as much as in your country - but far too much, for my liking. Most larger cities have more than one store.

[Guest zipperzone]

I cannot help but laugh out loud at much of this anti Walmart propaganda these days. The cliché certainly rings true – the more things change the more they remain the same. Nearly every argument used against Walmart today is exactly the same as those used by the Anti Chain Store movement during the 1910’s to 1930’s.

 

So did Sears destroy the local mom-and-pop stores of the 1910’s and 1920’s? Did A&P drive out the local grocer selling Eight O’clock Coffee?

 

Go ahead and condemn Walmart all you want. History being the guide it won’t make much difference. We’ve been down this road before and will travel it again.

 

Walmart. Save money. Live better.

 

I have always found your comments interesting and usually agreed with you. Not this time, however.

 

You keep talking about the "small mom & pop" stores. If you review the comments made on this thread, you will notice that seldom if ever comes up. Almost all of the adverse comments stem from their well documented unfair labour practices, which you seem to excuse by saying that's the way retail is. That may have been the case years ago but does not hold true today.

 

What you did not tell us is whether or not you actually patronize Walmart. Hopefully you don't as in my observation, most of their customers look like over-weight trailer trash and I would hate to have that image of you.

[MsGuy]

I have always found your comments interesting and usually agreed with you. Not this time, however.

 

You keep talking about the "small mom & pop" stores. If you review the comments made on this thread, you will notice that seldom if ever comes up. Almost all of the adverse comments stem from their well documented unfair labour practices, which you seem to excuse by saying that's the way retail is. That may have been the case years ago but does not hold true today.

 

What you did not tell us is whether or not you actually patronize Walmart. Hopefully you don't as in my observation, most of their customers look like over-weight trailer trash and I would hate to have that image of you.

 

Somehow it detracts from your expressed concern for Walmart employees when you bash its customers as "over-weight trailer trash," since the two groups largely overlap. Class prejudice isn't limited to straight Republicans.

[Guest zipperzone]

Somehow it detracts from your expressed concern for Walmart employees when you bash its customers as "over-weight trailer trash," since the two groups largely overlap. Class prejudice isn't limited to straight Republicans.

 

How's that? What does my description of their customers have to do with concern for unfair labour practices? I think you're reaching a bit - quite a bit - here.

 

And it is not class prejudice, it's just a simple observation. Just go park in their parking lot and observe who goes in or comes out. Make a "T" chart. You'll get the message soon enough.

[david]

Somehow it detracts from your expressed concern for Walmart employees when you bash its customers as "over-weight trailer trash," since the two groups largely overlap. Class prejudice isn't limited to straight Republicans.

 

 

I don't think he's bashing walmart customers at all.

Go to a walmart parking lot and observe what waddles in and out of that place.

 

It's not bashing when it's true.

[MsGuy]

How's that? What does my description of their customers have to do with concern for unfair labour practices? I think you're reaching a bit - quite a bit - here.

 

And it is not class prejudice, it's just a simple observation. Just go park in their parking lot and observe who goes in or comes out. Make a "T" chart. You'll get the message soon enough.

 

Walmart has the worst labor policies of any major retailer. Despite all the spin and bs now flowing out of Bentonville, you have only to take a peek at the metrics by which its managers are measured to know how much Corporate means to exploit the employees.

 

BUT:

 

In its original habitat of small town America, Walmart functions as the local department store and, lately, supermarket. Its customer base is pretty much a cross section of the community. Its shoppers trend to the heavy side because the whole of America has an obesity problem. Please note that many of the guys who post reviews here self describe as overweight. Shall we whip out a "T" chart for them?

 

My poorly expressed original point was simply that I find it hard to understand how one can couple a concern for the employees with a contempt for the customers. You're talking about exactly the same people, just wearing different hats. Love the NLRA, despise the workers? It's rather like Rev. Dobson professing his deep Christian love for all those nasty gays.

 

Nope, not that much of a reach and yep, class prejudice (IMHO:D.)

 

Zipper, please understand, I didn't intend my post as a personal attack on you. I have always enjoyed your posts and often agree with you. Yours was just last of several posts with a POV that grinds my gears.

[Guest zipperzone]

 

BUT:

 

My poorly expressed original point was simply that I find it hard to understand how one can couple a concern for the employees with a contempt for the customers. You're talking about exactly the same people, just wearing different hats.

 

It's not the same thing at all. I have concern for the workers who are being exploited and contempt for the employer doing so. My contempt does not extend to the workers in any way whatsoever.

 

My comments re customers has nothing to so with exploitation. They are presumably getting a good deal money wise - quality, not so much.

 

They do, however, seem to be on average, candidates for a Jenny Craig regime. If you don't believe me, invest a 1/2 hour and observe for yourself.

 

Nope, not that much of a reach and yep, class prejudice (IMHO:D.)

 

Zipper, please understand, I didn't intend my post as a personal attack on you. I have always enjoyed your posts and often agree with you. Yours was just last of several posts with a POV that grinds my gears.

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one

[MsGuy]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one

Thanks for the polite reply to my way too harsh post. I wish I could say I've gotten kinder & wiser as I've aged, but my Moma always taught me not to tell a lie unless I was reasonably assured of getting away with it. :o

 

And, what the hell, they are fat. No need to waste 1/2 hour on that.

 

FYI, Walmart doesn't carry the Jenny Craig line, only Weight Watchers frozen dinners. As you say, "quality, not so much."

[BewareofNick]

I've seen enough union prosecutions from the inside, representing the unions no less, to know that the leadership of these organizations are just as corrupt as any Wall Street banker or Walmart executive. I'll leave it at that.

 

I wont dispute there are some bad locals. I have yet to hear any major gripe about mine but I have read some where I have to agree that some particular locals are not in good standing with the members. But I think that it is unfair to group all locals together as being bad. That would be like someone saying all escorts are scam artists, theifs or whatever else.

 

Hugs,

Greg

 

Unions stopped being relevant decades ago. They now exist solely for the purpose of perpetuating themselves. Today's generation of workers doesn't get nor support the idea that someone should get a promotion just because of their length of service. They largely support the idea that those who work harder should get the rewards, which is anathema to unions.

 

Having said that, I believe that unionization is the only way to stop the WM juggernaut. However, the UFCW has had no success in doing so. When a Wal Mart meat deaprtment in Texas became unionized, WM ceased all meat cutting operations in their stores just to bust the union out. It worked.

[Guest DoctorMike]

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com

 

Why Wal-Mart Must Change

 

Wal-Mart has become much more than just a small corner store in rural America. In the past 10 years, Wal-Mart has grown into the largest retailer in the world -- number 1 among the Fortune 500 -- and is America's largest employer. With more than 1.4 million employees and over $12 billion in profits, Wal-Mart is a giant company with giant responsibilities. First and foremost, Wal-Mart has a responsibility to all Americans to set the standard for customers, workers and communities, and to help build a better America.

 

The truth is that Wal-Mart has let America down by lowering wages, forcing good paying American jobs overseas, and cutting costs with total disregard for the values that have made this nation great. Wal-Mart has needlessly exploited illegal immigrants, faces the largest gender discrimination lawsuit in history, forced workers to work in an unsafe environment, and -- incredibly -- broken child labor laws.

 

America's largest employer must reflect America's values. But, Wal-Mart will never change on its own. Lee Scott, Wal-Mart's CEO, mistakenly thinks he only answers to a few wealthy shareholders who own Wal-Mart stock. Lee Scott is wrong. Wal-Mart and Lee Scott must answer to the American people.

 

We are the ones who shop at Wal-Mart.

 

Together, we have the power to change Wal-Mart.

 

Together, we can hold Wal-Mart accountable and improve our America.

 

Wal-Mart's Vision for America vs. Our Vision for America

What is the "Wake-Up Wal-Mart" campaign all about?

 

Well, there are two visions for America: Wal-Mart's America, where profits come before people, and our vision, where people come first.

 

* In Wal-Mart's America, workers are paid poverty level wages even when they work full-time.

* In our America, workers are paid a living wage with proper health and retirement benefits.

* In Wal-Mart's America, wealthy companies shift their health care costs onto taxpayers like you and your families.

* In our America, corporations live up to their responsibility and provide their employees with adequate and affordable health care coverage.

* In Wal-Mart's America, suppliers are forced to make their goods cheaper even if it means shipping U.S. jobs overseas.

* In our America, we value U.S. jobs and companies that buy and sell "Made in America."

* In Wal-Mart's America, women are paid less than men.

* In our America, women and men are treated equally - fair pay for everyone.

 

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com

[KMEM]

I think most of what you wrote is that WM is not politically correct. I, too, would like to make America better but when you state that WM is not doing things the American way, I think you are not remembering John D. Rockefeller and all of his ilk, both before and after. They exploited labor, banks, contracts and all sorts, only to be slowed, not stopped by the Congress. The American way of capitalism is to have, make or produce the cheapest goods, services or products around. Unfortunately, the logical extension of that idea is to export to foreign countries where labor, materials and laws are conducive to cheaper goods. What that really means to me is we must be more efficient in our efforts, not pay more unless the result is more. When JFK cut the tie between no wage increases (for unions) without more productivity, we lost our way and we have never regained it since.

 

I know it is PC to have equal pay and better wages and more benefits, etc. but there has to be a result that pays for those ideals.

 

Best regards,

 

KMEM