Stalking

[Guest 7Zach]

I am a little confused by the intrepretation being used on the boards re: stalking. Several posts were made that FFF was stalking an escort here. But included in one of the posts, someone said it was stalking by that person to even talk or think about that escort. Now I recognize that the escort had been "baiting" the escort by saying he knew who he was, had seen hime, etc., and that FFF would not identify himself as such. And that he had sent a private email to that escort, but I would appreciate shedding some light on there.

And in regards to my old friend Truthteller, I've noticed that his posts have taken on a more substantive nature, despite the fact that he stated that he believes anyone visiting this board for any serious discussion is expecting too much from an internet chat room.

 

Despite that, in the past, whenever he wanted to "score" a big point in some rejoinder to me, he would tell me to go ahead and sell my "hole". Flattered, since I am not an escort. However, when I would reply to some of his hateful posts, he then accused me of stalking.

It surprised me, because he did the same thing to me previously. I actually thought it kinda funny because I thought his intellect, and sometimes specious legal reasoning, would allow him to give a better reason, since he clearly does the same thing. So what do the people on this board consider "stalking". Tks.

[+ deej]

[blockquote]

From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

[ol]

[li]To pursue by tracking stealthily.

[li]To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.

[li]To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.

[ol]

[/blockquote]

 

It looks to me like the key concepts are pursuit, persistence, obsession, derangement, and prey or quarry.

[phage]

I’m glad you brought that up. I thought all those comments about stalking were a bit silly myself. Talk about political correctness gone amuck. Only the parties involved know all the facts, but to tell someone they should not even mention another person again because it will be considered an act of stalking is ridiculous! It only trivializes a very serious crime.

[Guest pickwick]

Phage takes a sensible view of the matter as usual. We have a culture of "victimhood" in this country, and anyone who wants to gain an advantage in a dispute with another person can do so by placing himself in one of the fashionable "victim" categories. "Stalking victim" is one of the most fashionable at present.

 

A number of states, including New York, have passed laws criminalizing stalking. These laws vary in their terms, but the common purpose is to deal with behavior that actually causes harm to another person. I see nothing like that here.

[Guest jeffOH]

If what happened to Rick Munroe happened to me, I know I most certainly would call it "stalking". I don't believe all the details have been posted here and the contents of the taunting e-mails to

Rick certainly weren't made available to all. "Stalking" isn't just about fear of physical harm, there's a definite psychological aspect to it. If it's happening to you, it's not "silly" or "ridiculous" at

all. FFF/JC used his anonymity to drag this whole thing out. His posts

on here became increasingly nasty as pressure was put on him to

prove that he actually knew Rick and Derek prior to their escorting

careers.

 

His refusal to do this simple thing says a great deal. Rick and Derek

obviously considered FFF/JC's behavior to be stalking and I don't

understand why anyone would attempt to trivialize what they've gone

through.

 

[email protected]

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

I fear I must take issue with you both as you clearly have not thought through the issues involved.

 

Get rid of the idea that stalking involves the intent to cause some physical harm. Stalking is the causing of anxiety in an individual through unreasonale and unwanted attention.

 

A friend of mine (not gay)was stalked by a guy (a co-worker) who would sit in his car outside his house and just watch for several hours several days a week. He didn't stop until my friend threatened him with a baseball bat.

 

A women who hears heavy breathing continually over the phone is also being stalked, even if no intent to rape or threaten or physically molest is involved.

 

Persistently writing unsolicited and personal anonymous letters to someone is also stalking.

 

"You" are the ones triviliazing a "serious crime". I invite you to put yourselves in the place of the "victim" (yes, "victim") and imagine what it is like to have someone whom you do not know and cannot stop continually on your nerves, on your tail, who claims to be observing you, to know where you live, to know personal details about you, who posts where you post, who teases and taunts you continuously from a position of anonymity.

 

This sort of behaviour causes anxiety and fear in a victim. How is the individual suppose to know for sure that the one stalking him means no harm, and that he won't end up like John Lennon, offed by a stalker who, to my knowledge, never even made a threat. Unreasonable pursuit in this manner is neither healthy nor rational, and as such is frightening.

 

If FFF's own description of events are to be believed, he was indeed stalking Rick with entirely predictable emotional results. As such, any further attempt by FFF to contact, converse with, talk about or follow Rick, no matter how innocent it pretends to be, becomes further "stalking" by virtue of the previous behaviour.

 

The reason I added "thinking about" Rick to the list was to get FFF to realize that the least he had to do with Rick, the easier it would be for Rick to regain piece of mind. I don't happen to think that FFF is necessarily a bad guy. Like the two of you, he did not interpret his behaviour as stalking, merely a form of "adult" peekaboo or teasing. He needed to see it from the victim's point of view. If you can't, then you may be seriously lacking in empathy.

 

Stalking is serious not because it leads to violence, but because it prevents the victim from enjoying a sense of security and privacy. Now do you get it?x(

[CT Dick]

Wow! Nicely put, E-T. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

Dick

[Guest pickwick]

With regard to stalking, New York Penal Law sec. 120.45 requires that the conduct of the accused be such that he knew or should have known it would cause:

 

(i) reasonable fear of harm to physical health, safety or property of the alleged victim or

 

(ii) material harm to the mental or emotional health of the alleged victim.

 

Of course, anyone is free to create any definition of "stalking" that he cares to use in discussing the issue, and no one should be subjected to personal attacks simply because he interprets that word differently from others. The above is the definition that the New York Legislature adopted after hearing extensive testimony from mental health and law enforcement professionals on the issue.

[phage]

>Persistently writing unsolicited and personal anonymous

>letters to someone is also stalking.

 

I was very specific in my post. It was the suggestion/instruction that FFF not even mention his name on the board that I found silly…and still do. Sending unwanted emails is another matter. I, personally, would just delete them and go on with my life, but I acknowledge that no one is out there claiming that they know where I live. That would be much more disturbing.

 

>If FFF's own description of events are to be believed, he

>was indeed stalking Rick with entirely predictable emotional

>results. As such, any further attempt by FFF to contact,

>converse with, talk about or follow Rick, no matter how

>innocent it pretends to be, becomes further "stalking" by

>virtue of the previous behaviour.

 

You must be privy to postings or information that I have not seen. In none of FFF’s postings did I see anything that came close to a description of events that felt like stalking to me. (I'm not saying events didn't happen, only that you can't use FFF's words to confirm your assertion.) It only shows that I, and apparently others, can interpret the same thing differently. If you start with a belief that there are sinister motives, you will naturally come to a sinister conclusion. You keep mixing the serious actions of “contacting, conversing with and following” with the petty behavior of “talking about.” That’s where I think you go overboard.

 

>Like the two of you, he did not interpret his behaviour as

>stalking, merely a form of "adult" peekaboo or teasing. He

>needed to see it from the victim's point of view. If you

>can't, then you may be seriously lacking in empathy.

>

“Empathy” conferred on only one of the individuals in a conflict is called “partisanship.”

[Guest jeffOH]

How can someone call what happened a "conflict"? How did Rick contribute in any way this "conflict"?

 

I don't think anyone has said that they don't "empathize" with FFF/JC.

I do empathize and I hope he is eventually able to look at what he

has done objectively.

 

Of course Pickwick is here to enlighten us with the letter of the law.

How helpful. It seems to me that what FFF/JC did falls under the

second definition of the stalking law. His actions were unwanted and

he had been asked to stop. He apparently lacks the ability to

"empathize" regarding Rick.

 

[email protected]

[+ Lucky]

RE: Stalking or whatever

 

Whatever you want to term it, it was pretty ugly behavior, and was unilateral. No conflict existed, just a sick mind.

[Guest IM_Moore]

7Zach are we talking stalking according to HooBoy or stalking as in the law enforcement definition? They are very different as one is self importance the other self abuse.